Pistol thief

[bethekey.8314]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> 

 

No apology for editing the confusion values in your original post after breaking it down so detailed for me? I mean, I have your original post quoted even :(

 

And yep! That arrow sure points out the broken thief burst. Thief. The clones are still far away. The clones didn't do any significant damage apart from a minority of the confusion.

 

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> **(a good chunk of the damage came from the combined efforts and when thief shared venom on the clones)**

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > 

>

> No apology for editing the confusion values in your original post after breaking it down so detailed for me? I mean, I have your original post quoted even :(

>

> And yep! That arrow sure points out the broken thief burst. Thief. The clones are still far away. The clones didn't do any significant damage.

>

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > **(a good chunk of the damage came from the combined efforts and when thief shared venom on the clones)**

>

>

 

i only messed up the poison.

 

thief doesnt apply 11 stacks of confusion.

 

i can see that the majority of his health is lost to confusion ( a team effort)

 

really isn't showcasing a 1 v 1 opness

 

(he burnt most his cds and then the thief stole into a burst boosted by the mesmer)

 

no point made on your part.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > 

>

> No apology for editing the confusion values in your original post after breaking it down so detailed for me? I mean, I have your original post quoted even :(

>

> And yep! That arrow sure points out the broken thief burst. Thief. The clones are still far away. The clones didn't do any significant damage apart from a minority of the confusion.

>

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > **(a good chunk of the damage came from the combined efforts and when thief shared venom on the clones)**

>

>

 

his health is full until he keeps casting skills with 11 stacks of confusion covered. lol

 


 

[Quadox.7834]

i love condi thief and so do so many of the thieves in this thread clearly - i think we should keep p/d condi thief as is and nerf d/p power instead! :)

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Lol. Everyone with experience is saying how much counterplay there is.

>

> Anecdotal evidence again :( Maybe you didn't see the actual videos I posted for us to break down. Is Grimjack experienced enough? I think he's around rank 1 still.

>

> https://www.twitch.tv/im_grimjack/clip/HonorableKawaiiSharkWutFace?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

> https://www.twitch.tv/im_grimjack/clip/TransparentBlitheRamenJKanStyle?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

>

 

And you forgot that people pointed out that he lacked condi clear *and* screwed up what little he had completely and as a result wouldve died to every single condi build in the game. People saw your cherrypicked videos that, if looked at more closely, show the *opposite* of what you want it to show. And given how much you cling onto those debunked videos, it seems you have no real argument.

[saerni.2584]

I didn’t insult you personally, and I’ve gone out of my way, in multiple places, to explain build specific counter play.

 

Most of the burst is coming out of venom sharing into clones/allied attacks. Steal applies poison but it is very long duration but only a few stacks. That won’t tick very hard. The biggest part of your per tick damage is spider venom on attacks that land. Spider Venom is a hard to balance skill because it is either 6 personal bonus poison or, shared to 5 total potentially 30 stacks of poison. Not all the stacks need to hit for the damage to reach larger ticks fast.

 

If you are looking at confusion the duration is extremely small on the confusion applied by Steal. It will only be an issue if they steal right into skill spam. Against a profession like elementalist which uses a lot of skills that is a huge counter if one of the first skills isn’t a cleanse.

 

Torment on this build is less significant because you are getting 4 off Shadowstrike and need to stack up more off Dancing Dagger. It will boost your damage but the big culprit here is poison covered by bleed and torment.

 

If you want to productively go after this build I’d suggest asking for a reasonable discussion with all of us about Spider Venom and the spike damage it brings to this build. Now, people may disagree about whether venoms have enough counter play to warrant a nerf. But at least we would be talking about something concrete and not just “poster is a thief main.”

[bethekey.8314]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> i only messed up the poison.

>

> thief doesnt apply 11 stacks of confusion.

>

> i can see that the majority of his health is lost to confusion ( a team effort)

>

> really isn't showcasing a 1 v 1 opness

>

> (he burnt most his cds and then the thief stole into a burst boosted by the mesmer)

>

> no point made on your part.

 

- Yep, never said it did.

 

- Not sure if most of his health is lost to confusion, and based on your previous failures to analyze the video in depth, I doubt you do too. You CAN see here https://imgur.com/a/QLS6KP0 however, that the mesmer's part of the confusion has worn off when grimjack is over 50% health. Remember too that the majority of confusion at all times was from the thief. Mesmer did little damage here.

 

- It doesn't need to be a 1v1 in the first clip (2nd clip is pure 1v1 if you prefer) to show broken burst :)

 

- Sorry what *majority of cds* did he burn BEFORE the thief stole to him? Look closely (again...), you'll see he uses earth 5 and teleport. Two skills. Earth 4 is even still up when the thief steals on him, with the first bullet being reflected. I'm not sure why this has to be so hard to explain.

 

- Just because you say I'm making no points, doesn't make it true :( Sorry Mr. Thief.

 

You're backpedaling more than a condi thief getting carried by his class lol. I'll ask it again one last time! Are you saying he shouldn't have moved or used abilities at all? He had torment on him too after all.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> And you forgot that people pointed out that he lacked condi clear *and* screwed up what little he had completely and as a result wouldve died to every single condi build in the game. People saw your cherrypicked videos that, if looked at more closely, show the *opposite* of what you want it to show. And given how much you cling onto those debunked videos, it seems you have no real argument.

 

And you forgot I had to correct you multiple times like @"Crab Fear.1624". Sorry, you're fumbling over your own argument here. Did I cherry-pick videos that highlight how over-tuned condi thief is or, since its *definitely* the opposite (lol), is it not cherry-picking?

 

Your accusation of cherry-picking implies that there's a majority of "condi thief is perfectly balanced" videos out there. How many times must I ask? Still waiting on evidence from your side :(

 

And remember, just because you say something is debunked doesn't mean you did :( Sorry Mr. Thief / Engineer who doesn't know his own condi clears.

 

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > You guys are all missing the point, I disengaged from the 2 fights both times, and I still almost downed or did down even after I created enough space to not get hit by any/many pistol autos, repeaters, or shadow strikes. Thats where my issue is, if a Thief wants to instant steal on me, to force me off by doing 5k damage off it, thats great, more power to you, I'm cool with that, but when a Steal is doing 10k+ damage, theres an issue. This is before Venoms from hits, or Deadly Ambition procs, or anything like that, thats the issue.

>

> Because I want to abuse this 10k steal, can you please tell me how it is done before all those procs?

 

3->f1

10,3k condi damage + 1k power damage covered by torment and weakness, not counting any confusion damage.

can be used from stealth or from 1200 range. this is assuming thief doesnt use venom stacks, thiefs guild or any other skill

If thief uses poison, you will eat extra 1,4k poison damage + 700 siphon damage

If god forbid you eat entire some repeater shots, lets assume 2 out of 5 land.

you take

steal -> 4,7k poison, 6 confusion, weakness

shadowstrike -> 1,4k poison, 1k power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 1400 poison damage due to venom. 4,2k torment.

2 repeater shots -> 400 power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 900 bleeding damage, 1400 poison damage due to venom.

grand total of 16-17k damage

I didnt count vulnerability, I didnt count panic strike, did not count thiefs guild, did not count any followup attacks, no might, no crits. Didnt count lead attacks or exposed weakness. Didnt count any poison share to allies, clones, pets or anything of the sort.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

here is random poopy build I made in 10s out of boredom, propably plenty to improve.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > 

> >

> > No apology for editing the confusion values in your original post after breaking it down so detailed for me? I mean, I have your original post quoted even :(

> >

> > And yep! That arrow sure points out the broken thief burst. Thief. The clones are still far away. The clones didn't do any significant damage apart from a minority of the confusion.

> >

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > **(a good chunk of the damage came from the combined efforts and when thief shared venom on the clones)**

> >

> >

>

> his health is full until he keeps casting skills with 11 stacks of confusion covered. lol

>

> 

>

 

this is 11k damage worth of condi, not counting confusion slightly less because some of the timers ticked already

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > And you forgot that people pointed out that he lacked condi clear *and* screwed up what little he had completely and as a result wouldve died to every single condi build in the game. People saw your cherrypicked videos that, if looked at more closely, show the *opposite* of what you want it to show. And given how much you cling onto those debunked videos, it seems you have no real argument.

>

> And you forgot I had to correct you multiple times like @"Crab Fear.1624". Sorry, you're fumbling over your own argument here. Did I cherry-pick videos that highlight how over-tuned condi thief is or, since its *definitely* the opposite (lol), is it not cherry-picking?

>

 

No, you didnt. You corrected *one* thing, and apparently that got to your head. However, he still lacked condi clears, and he still wasted them, and he still spammed skills into confusion. You failed to "correct" these things, because they already are correct. The videos are still cherrypicked, since they show condi thieves burst being amped by the enemy spamming skills, having no condi clears, and getting help from a teammate.

 

> Your accusation of cherry-picking implies that there's a majority of "condi thief is perfectly balanced" videos out there. How many times must I ask? Still waiting on evidence from your side :(

>

 

Correct, it implies that there are a lot of videos that show condi thieves burst being easily stopped. You should know, you already presented one to us. Yourself. Whoops?

 

> And remember, just because you say something is debunked doesn't mean you did :( Sorry Mr. Thief / Engineer who doesn't know his own condi clears.

>

 

No, but the fact that I have debunked it means I have debunked it. But just to leave no ambiguity, your video still shows a target not only lacking condi clears (meaning they would die to every condi build), the guy being 2v1d by 2 condi builds *and* him spamming skills through confusion which does the most damage. To give you an idea how absurd this is, the power equivalent would be someone wasting all of his defenses, then getting hit by eviscerate and standing still when the enemy Hundred Blades them (for the *full* channel). Quite cherrypicked, no.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Crab Fear.1624"

I rewatched video in slow mo to get the clear picture.

1 Mesmer only applies 5 stacks of confusion and nothing else, pistol attack, and 1 stack of poison got wasted into invuln.

2 Ele used only 1 ability during confusion, took 1,3k dmg from it, ability used was heal, he would have died without it. he wasnt spamming at all, actually kudos to grim for not panicking at all.

3 entire damage was due to poison and torment, covered by bleed weakness and confusion.

@"UNOwen.7132"

@"Crab Fear.1624"

to you people, ele used 1 FUCKING ability with confusion, it was heal. stop saying he was spamming, he played as well as he could, ran instantly, used only 1 ability with confusion ( heal ) and lost 99% of his health anyways.

I Dont know what happened after that but thief could have killed him if he cared to chase ele without healing/invulnerability and 2k HP

 

edit 2, sec video.

1 he did not waste cleanses, he used it to remove 5 poison ( i assume its shared to guild 3,5k dmg ) 4 bleed -> 1,8k dmg and immob -> so he could run.

2 yes he spammed with confusion, heal was 100% needed cast there. but 2 other casts were not, he could avoid 3-4,5k dmg if he played perfectly

he would have escaped with 3-4k hp assuming thief wasnt chasing him in stealth if he legit played perfectly there.

 

edit 3

according to the build I posted trait leeching venoms applies 1,2k poison and actual ability deals 600, is it due to the nerf not affecting the trait and only ability or is it due to bug in the tooltip, if its not a bug then the damage could potentially by 600-1200 higher.

[bethekey.8314]

@"UNOwen.7132"

- Are you going to say he needs to have perfect, instant reflexes to deal with the instant cast condi burst?

- Is it fine that an instant cast teleport burst can 1 shot?

- Should he not have moved with torment OR used skills with confusion?

 

Since this is getting tedious, I'll summarize here and try to move on.

 

I think it's apparent now that these thieves are saying that you deserve to die to an instant cast, teleport burst if you don't instantly have a big condi cleanse on hand. I disagree with this along with many others, including good thieves that commented earlier in this thread.

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > > You guys are all missing the point, I disengaged from the 2 fights both times, and I still almost downed or did down even after I created enough space to not get hit by any/many pistol autos, repeaters, or shadow strikes. Thats where my issue is, if a Thief wants to instant steal on me, to force me off by doing 5k damage off it, thats great, more power to you, I'm cool with that, but when a Steal is doing 10k+ damage, theres an issue. This is before Venoms from hits, or Deadly Ambition procs, or anything like that, thats the issue.

> >

> > Because I want to abuse this 10k steal, can you please tell me how it is done before all those procs?

>

> 3->f1

> 10,3k condi damage + 1k power damage covered by torment and weakness, not counting any confusion damage.

> can be used from stealth or from 1200 range. this is assuming thief doesnt use venom stacks, thiefs guild or any other skill

> If thief uses poison, you will eat extra 1,4k poison damage + 700 siphon damage

> If god forbid you eat entire some repeater shots, lets assume 2 out of 5 land.

> you take

> steal -> 4,7k poison, 6 confusion, weakness

> shadowstrike -> 1,4k poison, 1k power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 1400 poison damage due to venom. 4,2k torment.

> 2 repeater shots -> 400 power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 900 bleeding damage, 1400 poison damage due to venom.

> grand total of 16-17k damage

> I didnt count vulnerability, I didnt count panic strike, did not count thiefs guild, did not count any followup attacks, no might, no crits. Didnt count lead attacks or exposed weakness. Didnt count any poison share to allies, clones, pets or anything of the sort.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

> here is random poopy build I made in 10s out of boredom, propably plenty to improve.

 

Lets see. 1620 condi damage. Torment is 0.09 per condi damage + 32 per stack per second. So thats 3626 off of torment while moving over 6 seconds. Poison is 4 stacks for 3.75 seconds and 2 stacks for 8.75. Thats 2352 for the 4 stacks, and then 2744 for the 2 stacks. 6 stacks of confusion over 3 seconds do 180 damage without skill activation. Thats under 10k, and thats even with all of the condis ticking for max duration and not being cleansed. Not really impressive.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > > > You guys are all missing the point, I disengaged from the 2 fights both times, and I still almost downed or did down even after I created enough space to not get hit by any/many pistol autos, repeaters, or shadow strikes. Thats where my issue is, if a Thief wants to instant steal on me, to force me off by doing 5k damage off it, thats great, more power to you, I'm cool with that, but when a Steal is doing 10k+ damage, theres an issue. This is before Venoms from hits, or Deadly Ambition procs, or anything like that, thats the issue.

> > >

> > > Because I want to abuse this 10k steal, can you please tell me how it is done before all those procs?

> >

> > 3->f1

> > 10,3k condi damage + 1k power damage covered by torment and weakness, not counting any confusion damage.

> > can be used from stealth or from 1200 range. this is assuming thief doesnt use venom stacks, thiefs guild or any other skill

> > If thief uses poison, you will eat extra 1,4k poison damage + 700 siphon damage

> > If god forbid you eat entire some repeater shots, lets assume 2 out of 5 land.

> > you take

> > steal -> 4,7k poison, 6 confusion, weakness

> > shadowstrike -> 1,4k poison, 1k power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 1400 poison damage due to venom. 4,2k torment.

> > 2 repeater shots -> 400 power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 900 bleeding damage, 1400 poison damage due to venom.

> > grand total of 16-17k damage

> > I didnt count vulnerability, I didnt count panic strike, did not count thiefs guild, did not count any followup attacks, no might, no crits. Didnt count lead attacks or exposed weakness. Didnt count any poison share to allies, clones, pets or anything of the sort.

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

> > here is random poopy build I made in 10s out of boredom, propably plenty to improve.

>

> Lets see. 1620 condi damage. Torment is 0.09 per condi damage + 32 per stack per second. So thats 3626 off of torment while moving over 6 seconds. Poison is 4 stacks for 3.75 seconds and 2 stacks for 8.75. Thats 2352 for the 4 stacks, and then 2744 for the 2 stacks. 6 stacks of confusion over 3 seconds do 180 damage without skill activation. Thats under 10k, and thats even with all of the condis ticking for max duration and not being cleansed. Not really impressive.

 

instead of pretending that you are mathematical mastermind and using base formulas that have absolutely nothing to do with reality because you will miss every single modifiers in existance use the numbers on skills.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

 

 

[saerni.2584]

Condi numbers look impressive until you look at their durations.

 

Spike condi is about number of stacks. If I’m not hitting at least 5k/tick total it really isn’t in “one shot” territory.

 

That is, assuming 16-20k HP, a condi burst is probably going to involve around 25-30% HP per tick. Otherwise you can’t really call it a burst.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> instead of pretending that you are mathematical mastermind and using base formulas that have absolutely nothing to do with reality because you will miss every single modifiers in existance use the numbers on skills.

> http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

 

LOL +1

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > instead of pretending that you are mathematical mastermind and using base formulas that have absolutely nothing to do with reality because you will miss every single modifiers in existance use the numbers on skills.

> > http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

>

> LOL +1

>

>

 

and even looking at those numbers we will miss many things, like extra might from steal, extra power damage from all the boons, small bonuses to damage due to crit that can land or lead attacks potential 15% dmg bonus.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Crab Fear.1624"

> I rewatched video in slow mo to get the clear picture.

> 1 Mesmer only applies 5 stacks of confusion and nothing else, pistol attack, and 1 stack of poison got wasted into invuln.

> 2 Ele used only 1 ability during confusion, took 1,3k dmg from it, ability used was heal, he would have died without it. he wasnt spamming at all, actually kudos to grim for not panicking at all.

> 3 entire damage was due to poison and torment, covered by bleed weakness and confusion.

> @"UNOwen.7132"

> @"Crab Fear.1624"

> to you people, ele used 1 kitten ability with confusion, it was heal. stop saying he was spamming, he played as well as he could, ran instantly, used only 1 ability with confusion ( heal ) and lost 99% of his health anyways.

 

He used 3. Blink. Healing signet. Swap Attunement. Each doing 1400 confusion damage. Prior to that, he uses a condi cleanse (which are very valuable) to remove 1 stack of poison that was almost running out. He did not play it "as well as he could". He played it very poorly. And thats ignoring the fact that he had barely any condi cleanses.

 

> I Dont know what happened after that but thief could have killed him if he cared to chase ele without healing/invulnerability and 2k HP

>

 

No idea on that.

 

> edit 2, sec video.

> 1 he did not waste cleanses, he used it to remove 5 poison ( i assume its shared to guild 3,5k dmg ) 4 bleed -> 1,8k dmg and immob -> so he could run.

> 2 yes he spammed with confusion, heal was 100% needed cast there. but 2 other casts were not, he could avoid 3-4,5k dmg if he played perfectly

> he would have escaped with 3-4k hp assuming thief wasnt chasing him in stealth if he legit played perfectly there.

 

He used it to remove 5 stacks of 3 second duration poison. Which isnt worth removing at all. He then has nothing for the torment, longer duration poison, or condi. He spammed skills through confusion. He misplayed horribly.

[Arheundel.6451]

I don't like thieves, I don't like their design and most of their specs...got killed several times by P/D or P/P on occasion with all that said...can we please stop deleting specs/playstyles from the game?

 

Apply changes where necessary...don't delete!

-If it's instant...add cast time..don't just delete from the game

-if it's too much dmg...lower it

-too much condi burst...lower stacks and increase duration....

 

Just stop already with this "delete" mantra, I'd like to play this game for as long as possible

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

> @"UNOwen.7132"

> - Are you going to say he needs to have perfect, instant reflexes to deal with the instant cast condi burst?

 

No. Im saying you need to actually have condi cleanses if you want to avoid dying to condi builds.

 

> - Is it fine that an instant cast teleport burst can 1 shot?

 

Thats an issue with condis as a whole. I have already answered that.

 

> - Should he not have moved with torment OR used skills with confusion?

>

 

No to the former, yes to the latter.

 

> Since this is getting tedious, I'll summarize here and try to move on.

>

> I think it's apparent now that these thieves are saying that you deserve to die to an instant cast, teleport burst if you don't instantly have a big condi cleanse on hand. I disagree with this along with many others, including good thieves that commented earlier in this thread.

>

 

Way to misrepresent what people are saying to suit your narrative. What people are saying is that you shouldnt be surprised you die to a condi build when you dont have condi cleanses. You dont need them to be instant. Far from it. You have *multiple seconds* to calmly and carefully cleanse the condis. But if you fail to do that, you shouldnt be surprised when you lose.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"UNOwen.7132" he cleansed to remove 5k+ dmg and remove immob, it was most definitely correct decision, expecially since 15 poison stack gang of thiefs was coming for his ass.

spamming with confusion was a mistake, it cost him extra 3-4,5k damage he would have lived with that HP assuming thief was not chasing him in stealth.

Reality of the situation is that he dropped 80%+ of his HP from instagib stealth, if he fought back gank would apply 10k+ more not even counting thief dealing any damage.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > > > > You guys are all missing the point, I disengaged from the 2 fights both times, and I still almost downed or did down even after I created enough space to not get hit by any/many pistol autos, repeaters, or shadow strikes. Thats where my issue is, if a Thief wants to instant steal on me, to force me off by doing 5k damage off it, thats great, more power to you, I'm cool with that, but when a Steal is doing 10k+ damage, theres an issue. This is before Venoms from hits, or Deadly Ambition procs, or anything like that, thats the issue.

> > > >

> > > > Because I want to abuse this 10k steal, can you please tell me how it is done before all those procs?

> > >

> > > 3->f1

> > > 10,3k condi damage + 1k power damage covered by torment and weakness, not counting any confusion damage.

> > > can be used from stealth or from 1200 range. this is assuming thief doesnt use venom stacks, thiefs guild or any other skill

> > > If thief uses poison, you will eat extra 1,4k poison damage + 700 siphon damage

> > > If god forbid you eat entire some repeater shots, lets assume 2 out of 5 land.

> > > you take

> > > steal -> 4,7k poison, 6 confusion, weakness

> > > shadowstrike -> 1,4k poison, 1k power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 1400 poison damage due to venom. 4,2k torment.

> > > 2 repeater shots -> 400 power damage, 750 siphon damage due to venom, 900 bleeding damage, 1400 poison damage due to venom.

> > > grand total of 16-17k damage

> > > I didnt count vulnerability, I didnt count panic strike, did not count thiefs guild, did not count any followup attacks, no might, no crits. Didnt count lead attacks or exposed weakness. Didnt count any poison share to allies, clones, pets or anything of the sort.

> > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

> > > here is random poopy build I made in 10s out of boredom, propably plenty to improve.

> >

> > Lets see. 1620 condi damage. Torment is 0.09 per condi damage + 32 per stack per second. So thats 3626 off of torment while moving over 6 seconds. Poison is 4 stacks for 3.75 seconds and 2 stacks for 8.75. Thats 2352 for the 4 stacks, and then 2744 for the 2 stacks. 6 stacks of confusion over 3 seconds do 180 damage without skill activation. Thats under 10k, and thats even with all of the condis ticking for max duration and not being cleansed. Not really impressive.

>

> instead of pretending that you are mathematical mastermind and using base formulas that have absolutely nothing to do with reality because you will miss every single modifiers in existance use the numbers on skills.

> http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFw2YHML2IO2OardA-zZoOkUECZqC6VC40B

>

>

Oh you slapped on poison duration sigil. Sure, its 10k damage. Over *15 seconds*. What a joke.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"UNOwen.7132" he cleansed to remove 5k+ dmg and remove immob, it was most definitely correct decision, expecially since 15 poison stack gang of thiefs was coming for his kitten.

 

5k damage? What? He removed 5 stacks of poison that would tick over 3 seconds, and 4 stacks of bleed for 4. Thats *far* from 5k damage. Thats something like 4k damage over 3-4 seconds. Thats not worth cleansing, especially since you know the thief has otherb urst.

 

> spamming with confusion was a mistake, it cost him extra 3-4,5k damage he would have lived with that HP assuming thief was not chasing him in stealth.

> Reality of the situation is that he dropped 80%+ of his HP from instagib stealth, if he fought back gank would apply 10k+ more not even counting thief dealing any damage.

 

He spammed 6 skills. He took an extra *8484* damage from that. He wouldve lived with half his hp, at least. More if he didnt waste cleanse. Frankly you of all people should know how much damage spamming skills under confusion does.

[fumcheg.1936]

Just imagine these guys faces when they'd find out that burn guardian can apply like 14-15 stacks of burn. I'm not quite sure but following this thread maths its about like over 1 billion damage?