Is heart of thorns meant to feel this hard as a new player?

[Hashberry.4510]

Pocket Raptors are great to have around if you like the stackable damage sigils. Btw, I am a pretty mediocre player, but I love HoT. It took me a looong time to figure the place out, frustrating at times, but overall just a great growing experience.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> >

> > > In DCUO I choose a power set. My power set defines my "role" in a team. All power sets have a Damage Role and one other (Tank, Healer or "Control" which is just a energy healer). This role is set via a drop down menu. If I want to play DPS, I set myself for Damage, if I want to Tank and my power set allows it, I choose Tank. The game then prevents me from even equipping items that I cannot set my role to. Other than that I have a loadout of powers on my bar that can be changed and a small single line trait system with a few small choices. But if I want to make changes to my traits I need to respec, and that involves a time and currency sink.

> > > And that's it... there is no adaptation, very little experimentation, very little flexibility.... and consequently, very little room for me to bork my toon.

> > But, doesn't this go against ANet's design of characters not having a specific, trinity role?

> This goes against the very core of several design philosophies of GW2...not the least of which is the absence of a rigid trinity.

> Lack of gear treadmill, respecs that require time/currency sinks,...the list goes on

> > The fact that every class should be proficient in all three roles (to varying degrees, sure) is what leads to this perceived notion that HoT makes things dramatically harder.

> It is not a perception issue.

> HoT is indeed harder than the content before it....and in most cases afterward.

> >I don't believe that the issue is with HoT, but with the stubborn players. And that's saying a lot from me being a very casual player.

> There are lots of "issues" with the difficulty of HoT. Some of it is players being stubborn and choosing to kitten themselves in the name of "play style" or "theme". Some of it is a gear system that never explains a few basics. Some of it the way that the fundamentals of combat and boon play are taught in optional and skippable content.

> Saying the issue is stubborn players may be a little myopic.

> > For me, I think that pre-nerf HoT was too difficult. It was way more than I could handle, even making build changes. I'm just not that good of a player. After nerf, I was able to get through the content but it was still quite difficult for me. I think that the HoT maps are wonderful in design and am glad for the level of difficulty that they bring for those players who enjoy it. I do not and hardly step foot in HoT maps, but that's ok because there are plenty of other places I can go.

> And that's a decent perspective.... seeing yourself as a player with options and not a customer who must be gratified.

>

 

try suggesting, that the hardcores make their own challenge by removing some gear. that would be the easiest option.

see how they respond to that. and very few players want to pay for something, that they dont like. why should they?

[Shikaru.7618]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > >

> > > > In DCUO I choose a power set. My power set defines my "role" in a team. All power sets have a Damage Role and one other (Tank, Healer or "Control" which is just a energy healer). This role is set via a drop down menu. If I want to play DPS, I set myself for Damage, if I want to Tank and my power set allows it, I choose Tank. The game then prevents me from even equipping items that I cannot set my role to. Other than that I have a loadout of powers on my bar that can be changed and a small single line trait system with a few small choices. But if I want to make changes to my traits I need to respec, and that involves a time and currency sink.

> > > > And that's it... there is no adaptation, very little experimentation, very little flexibility.... and consequently, very little room for me to bork my toon.

> > > But, doesn't this go against ANet's design of characters not having a specific, trinity role?

> > This goes against the very core of several design philosophies of GW2...not the least of which is the absence of a rigid trinity.

> > Lack of gear treadmill, respecs that require time/currency sinks,...the list goes on

> > > The fact that every class should be proficient in all three roles (to varying degrees, sure) is what leads to this perceived notion that HoT makes things dramatically harder.

> > It is not a perception issue.

> > HoT is indeed harder than the content before it....and in most cases afterward.

> > >I don't believe that the issue is with HoT, but with the stubborn players. And that's saying a lot from me being a very casual player.

> > There are lots of "issues" with the difficulty of HoT. Some of it is players being stubborn and choosing to kitten themselves in the name of "play style" or "theme". Some of it is a gear system that never explains a few basics. Some of it the way that the fundamentals of combat and boon play are taught in optional and skippable content.

> > Saying the issue is stubborn players may be a little myopic.

> > > For me, I think that pre-nerf HoT was too difficult. It was way more than I could handle, even making build changes. I'm just not that good of a player. After nerf, I was able to get through the content but it was still quite difficult for me. I think that the HoT maps are wonderful in design and am glad for the level of difficulty that they bring for those players who enjoy it. I do not and hardly step foot in HoT maps, but that's ok because there are plenty of other places I can go.

> > And that's a decent perspective.... seeing yourself as a player with options and not a customer who must be gratified.

> >

>

> try suggesting, that the hardcores make their own challenge by removing some gear. that would be the easiest option.

> see how they respond to that. and very few players want to pay for something, that they dont like. why should they?

 

Except that doesnt tick the challenging content box for raiders. We want to use all tools available to overcome the obstacle. What you described is in fact casual open worlders creating challenge for themselves because they limit the tools available artificially and refuse to acknowledge that.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Shikaru.7618" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > >

> > > > > In DCUO I choose a power set. My power set defines my "role" in a team. All power sets have a Damage Role and one other (Tank, Healer or "Control" which is just a energy healer). This role is set via a drop down menu. If I want to play DPS, I set myself for Damage, if I want to Tank and my power set allows it, I choose Tank. The game then prevents me from even equipping items that I cannot set my role to. Other than that I have a loadout of powers on my bar that can be changed and a small single line trait system with a few small choices. But if I want to make changes to my traits I need to respec, and that involves a time and currency sink.

> > > > > And that's it... there is no adaptation, very little experimentation, very little flexibility.... and consequently, very little room for me to bork my toon.

> > > > But, doesn't this go against ANet's design of characters not having a specific, trinity role?

> > > This goes against the very core of several design philosophies of GW2...not the least of which is the absence of a rigid trinity.

> > > Lack of gear treadmill, respecs that require time/currency sinks,...the list goes on

> > > > The fact that every class should be proficient in all three roles (to varying degrees, sure) is what leads to this perceived notion that HoT makes things dramatically harder.

> > > It is not a perception issue.

> > > HoT is indeed harder than the content before it....and in most cases afterward.

> > > >I don't believe that the issue is with HoT, but with the stubborn players. And that's saying a lot from me being a very casual player.

> > > There are lots of "issues" with the difficulty of HoT. Some of it is players being stubborn and choosing to kitten themselves in the name of "play style" or "theme". Some of it is a gear system that never explains a few basics. Some of it the way that the fundamentals of combat and boon play are taught in optional and skippable content.

> > > Saying the issue is stubborn players may be a little myopic.

> > > > For me, I think that pre-nerf HoT was too difficult. It was way more than I could handle, even making build changes. I'm just not that good of a player. After nerf, I was able to get through the content but it was still quite difficult for me. I think that the HoT maps are wonderful in design and am glad for the level of difficulty that they bring for those players who enjoy it. I do not and hardly step foot in HoT maps, but that's ok because there are plenty of other places I can go.

> > > And that's a decent perspective.... seeing yourself as a player with options and not a customer who must be gratified.

> > >

> >

> > try suggesting, that the hardcores make their own challenge by removing some gear. that would be the easiest option.

> > see how they respond to that. and very few players want to pay for something, that they dont like. why should they?

>

> Except that doesnt tick the challenging content box for raiders. We want to use all tools available to overcome the obstacle. What you described is in fact casual open worlders creating challenge for themselves because they limit the tools available artificially and refuse to acknowledge that.

 

they play the way they like to, just like you do. and as casuals, they dont see any point in playing any other way

i have just finished first chapter in the icebrood saga, i wouldnt call it enjoyable, but at least it was playable

i doubt it will win few over, its too easy for the hardcores, and too hard for the casuals

and all that snow gets REALLY annoying after a while

PS removing or downgrading armor is a TOOL, just like upgrading is. and you refuse to use it.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> try suggesting, that the hardcores make their own challenge by removing some gear. that would be the easiest option.

> see how they respond to that. and very few players want to pay for something, that they dont like. why should they?

 

How is removing gear going to increase the challenge? It's only gonna increase boredom and make content tedious. That's not challenge

[battledrone.8315]

it is a well known fact, that having suboptimal gear does make the content more challenging. why are you even trying to deny this?

just having the wrong armor runes and weapon sigils makes a HUGE difference

you can still refuse to use it, but it would most definately WORK

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> it is a well known fact, that having suboptimal gear does make the content more challenging. why are you even trying to deny this?

> just having the wrong armor runes and weapon sigils makes a HUGE difference

> you can still refuse to use it, but it would most definately WORK

 

You are confusing tediousness with challenge. It's a rather common misconception that increasing the damage and health of enemies increases the challenge, it doesn't. Just take a look at high level fractals, mobs used to have enormous health pools and do really high damage. Was it a "challenge"? No it wasn't, you just had to "grind" over their inflated health pools. Which is why they were changed to what we have now, much lower health, lower armor and lower damage. But higher challenge thanks to other factors like instabilities and better designed enemies in Fractals with more varied skill sets. "Challenge" is created by having interesting enemies and bosses, not by inflating health pools and damage, which is what would happen if you remove your gear.

[Dayra.7405]

With HoT everyone got the mentor-apple as free commander.

 

Use it to do the event-chains in HoT!

 

Turn it on if you want to make an event chain and no one is there (and write something like events xyz at my Tag into the map-channel. You don‘t have to lead or command anything, it’s just to show others „there is action“

 

Join them if you see them.

 

In principle you are solo but it’s nice & easy to gather temporarily. And it fits perfectly the lore perfectly, survive alone till you meet others and then fight back.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > it is a well known fact, that having suboptimal gear does make the content more challenging. why are you even trying to deny this?

> > just having the wrong armor runes and weapon sigils makes a HUGE difference

> > you can still refuse to use it, but it would most definately WORK

>

> You are confusing tediousness with challenge. It's a rather common misconception that increasing the damage and health of enemies increases the challenge, it doesn't. Just take a look at high level fractals, mobs used to have enormous health pools and do really high damage. Was it a "challenge"? No it wasn't, you just had to "grind" over their inflated health pools. Which is why they were changed to what we have now, much lower health, lower armor and lower damage. But higher challenge thanks to other factors like instabilities and better designed enemies in Fractals with more varied skill sets. "Challenge" is created by having interesting enemies and bosses, not by inflating health pools and damage, which is what would happen if you remove your gear.

 

lol....sure. whatever floats your boat. it is no coincidence, that they didnt make more of this. and that no other mmos have done the same.

i will be very surprised if they sell over 500k of the next expansion.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > it is a well known fact, that having suboptimal gear does make the content more challenging. why are you even trying to deny this?

> > > just having the wrong armor runes and weapon sigils makes a HUGE difference

> > > you can still refuse to use it, but it would most definately WORK

> >

> > You are confusing tediousness with challenge. It's a rather common misconception that increasing the damage and health of enemies increases the challenge, it doesn't. Just take a look at high level fractals, mobs used to have enormous health pools and do really high damage. Was it a "challenge"? No it wasn't, you just had to "grind" over their inflated health pools. Which is why they were changed to what we have now, much lower health, lower armor and lower damage. But higher challenge thanks to other factors like instabilities and better designed enemies in Fractals with more varied skill sets. "Challenge" is created by having interesting enemies and bosses, not by inflating health pools and damage, which is what would happen if you remove your gear.

>

> lol....sure. whatever floats your boat. it is no coincidence, that they didnt make more of this. and that no other mmos have done the same.

> i will be very surprised if they sell over 500k of the next expansion.

 

I don't know what you are on about here. All the story bosses in the core game are giant damage sponges, removing gear would only make them even worse and put players to sleep. Meanwhile in Heart of Thorns, Path of Fire and the living world the bosses require some thought process by the player. Provide challenge with mechanics, not with higher health and damage, something that cannot be done by removing gear. If I go fight the Shadow Behemoth or Zhaitan naked it won't suddenly become an exciting boss just because I do less damage and take more of it, it will still be a boring/tedious experience. Meanwhile, a single Smokescale, even though it has far less health, is an actual challenge because it blocks attacks and requires a bit of thought when fighting it. Same goes with Canids or Djinn in Path of Fire and many other mobs that are too numerous to mention in this post.

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> It’s not only that you have to learn your class to get better. You have to learn any (dangerous) opponent. Which attacks (Animations) are dangerous which aren’t? When do I have to dodge to avoid the attack? Which range does it have? Which of my skills help to hinder attacks on which mobs or block/evade/reflect/reduce damage of which attacks.

 

if you actually acknowledge that there is a new set of opponents and you aren't that experienced with movement you pick a bunker build. then any opponents knowledge comes on the fly. yes fights take a lot longer but you beat more enemies doing so.

 

for anyone who has problems in such areas: you can try out a harold with some healing power. most of rev's heals scale exceptionally bad with healing power for whatever reason, however the generic buff regeneration scales well. and as a harold you have permanent regeneration. combine that with some toughness and you'll survive any HoT encounter long enough to either learn its mechanic or run away. you only die in events or if you missed that you're low on health. i am sure guard and warrior have similar builds available. any build with adds is also a fine way to learn, let your adds take the big shots first and watch them.

 

the game provides easy lay-back classes that may be far from optimal but offer enough time to learn any opponent on the fly. at least HoT opponents. some PoF encounters aren't that easy to learn, however those are pretty special like bounties and you're normally not alone doing them and so you can ask people.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> just the fact, that they started nerfing IMMEDIATELY after launch should tell you all you need to know...

It tells me that the developers are done balancing at this point and are now confident it presents the intended level of challenge.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> it didnt work for roughly 5 mio other players too. or do you actually think, that they have more than a mio paying players left by now?

> this isnt the first hot thread we had. and we see the usual handful of people defending it.

> just the fact, that they started nerfing IMMEDIATELY after launch should tell you all you need to know...

 

I think you missed the mass exodus after the game was released and the developers desperately trying to find ways to save the game from dying, with one way being the introduction of Ascended tier items to keep the players occupied. Because getting exotic was too easy.

You also missed the millions that downloaded the game during the free trial and then simply abandoning the game, with NCSoft confirming that the loss of revenue during Heart of Thorns wasn't due to difficulty or challenge or casuals leaving but due to *slow conversion*.

 

As a matter of fact 40% (!!!) of the game's accounts haven't gone out of the starter zone as they have less than 100 achievement points, meaning they didn't do anything in the game. Just following the personal story up to level 20 will net you more than 100 AP. 60% of the game's accounts have less than 600 AP, meaning they didn't even finish the personal story.

 

I'm sure millions of accounts quitting before finishing half the personal story was the responsibility of Heart of Thorns /s

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > it didnt work for roughly 5 mio other players too. or do you actually think, that they have more than a mio paying players left by now?

> > this isnt the first hot thread we had. and we see the usual handful of people defending it.

> > just the fact, that they started nerfing IMMEDIATELY after launch should tell you all you need to know...

>

> I think you missed the mass exodus after the game was released and the developers desperately trying to find ways to save the game from dying, with one way being the introduction of Ascended tier items to keep the players occupied. Because getting exotic was too easy.

> You also missed the millions that downloaded the game during the free trial and then simply abandoning the game, with NCSoft confirming that the loss of revenue during Heart of Thorns wasn't due to difficulty or challenge or casuals leaving but due to *slow conversion*.

>

> As a matter of fact 40% (!!!) of the game's accounts haven't gone out of the starter zone as they have less than 100 achievement points, meaning they didn't do anything in the game. Just following the personal story up to level 20 will net you more than 100 AP. 60% of the game's accounts have less than 600 AP, meaning they didn't even finish the personal story.

>

> I'm sure millions of accounts quitting before finishing half the personal story was the responsibility of Heart of Thorns /s

 

that is pretty standard, even wow loses 80 % of the players before they hit lvl 20, only about 5 %ever makes it to max lvl

besides that, any F2P game will get ton of mule accounts that are MADE to not progress.

"slow converson"...lets see, they log in and play. if they dont like it...case closed.

but if they DO like it, they will prolly start to ask questions. and one of the first things they will hear is , that the expansions are much harder

than core. and most of them will just play the good part for free, and skip the rest.

OTOH, if they actually WANT that hardcore content, they still have to slug though the entire core game first

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > it didnt work for roughly 5 mio other players too. or do you actually think, that they have more than a mio paying players left by now?

> > > this isnt the first hot thread we had. and we see the usual handful of people defending it.

> > > just the fact, that they started nerfing IMMEDIATELY after launch should tell you all you need to know...

> >

> > I think you missed the mass exodus after the game was released and the developers desperately trying to find ways to save the game from dying, with one way being the introduction of Ascended tier items to keep the players occupied. Because getting exotic was too easy.

> > You also missed the millions that downloaded the game during the free trial and then simply abandoning the game, with NCSoft confirming that the loss of revenue during Heart of Thorns wasn't due to difficulty or challenge or casuals leaving but due to *slow conversion*.

> >

> > As a matter of fact 40% (!!!) of the game's accounts haven't gone out of the starter zone as they have less than 100 achievement points, meaning they didn't do anything in the game. Just following the personal story up to level 20 will net you more than 100 AP. 60% of the game's accounts have less than 600 AP, meaning they didn't even finish the personal story.

> >

> > I'm sure millions of accounts quitting before finishing half the personal story was the responsibility of Heart of Thorns /s

>

> that is pretty standard, even wow loses 80 % of the players before they hit lvl 20, only about 5 %ever makes it to max lvl

> besides that, any F2P game will get ton of mule accounts that are MADE to not progress.

> "slow converson"...lets see, they log in and play. if they dont like it...case closed.

> but if they DO like it, they will prolly start to ask questions. and one of the first things they will hear is , that the expansions are much harder

 

Slow conversion means a player didn't like the game, it's plain simple. Furthermore we are talking about 40% of the accounts not leaving the tutorial and 60% not reaching the mid point of the personal story, those players stopped playing a long time before "asking" about the expansions. "No conversion" means, those players didn't like the core experience, if they did they would convert, or at least finish the core experience before quitting. So your argument isn't based on facts or data.

 

> than core. and most of them will just play the good part for free, and skip the rest.

 

If that was true then core maps would be fuller than the rest of the game, but they are not. Meaning those players that like only the free/core experience are a tiny minority.

 

> OTOH, if they actually WANT that hardcore content, they still have to slug though the entire core game first

 

That's one of the core issues with the game, you need to slug through the bad parts to get to the good ones.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > it didnt work for roughly 5 mio other players too. or do you actually think, that they have more than a mio paying players left by now?

> > > > this isnt the first hot thread we had. and we see the usual handful of people defending it.

> > > > just the fact, that they started nerfing IMMEDIATELY after launch should tell you all you need to know...

> > >

> > > I think you missed the mass exodus after the game was released and the developers desperately trying to find ways to save the game from dying, with one way being the introduction of Ascended tier items to keep the players occupied. Because getting exotic was too easy.

> > > You also missed the millions that downloaded the game during the free trial and then simply abandoning the game, with NCSoft confirming that the loss of revenue during Heart of Thorns wasn't due to difficulty or challenge or casuals leaving but due to *slow conversion*.

> > >

> > > As a matter of fact 40% (!!!) of the game's accounts haven't gone out of the starter zone as they have less than 100 achievement points, meaning they didn't do anything in the game. Just following the personal story up to level 20 will net you more than 100 AP. 60% of the game's accounts have less than 600 AP, meaning they didn't even finish the personal story.

> > >

> > > I'm sure millions of accounts quitting before finishing half the personal story was the responsibility of Heart of Thorns /s

> >

> > that is pretty standard, even wow loses 80 % of the players before they hit lvl 20, only about 5 %ever makes it to max lvl

> > besides that, any F2P game will get ton of mule accounts that are MADE to not progress.

> > "slow converson"...lets see, they log in and play. if they dont like it...case closed.

> > but if they DO like it, they will prolly start to ask questions. and one of the first things they will hear is , that the expansions are much harder

>

> Slow conversion means a player didn't like the game, it's plain simple. Furthermore we are talking about 40% of the accounts not leaving the tutorial and 60% not reaching the mid point of the personal story, those players stopped playing a long time before "asking" about the expansions. "No conversion" means, those players didn't like the core experience, if they did they would convert, or at least finish the core experience before quitting. So your argument isn't based on facts or data.

>

> > than core. and most of them will just play the good part for free, and skip the rest.

>

> If that was true then core maps would be fuller than the rest of the game, but they are not. Meaning those players that like only the free/core experience are a tiny minority.

>

> > OTOH, if they actually WANT that hardcore content, they still have to slug though the entire core game first

>

> That's one of the core issues with the game, you need to slug through the bad parts to get to the good ones.

 

60 % is actually WAY better than wow, so if that number is correct, then the core game IS THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY!

i would like a source on the core vs expansion numbers, i doubt those are true. if they were, then there shouldnt be any problems at all.

that would mean, that the MAJORITY of players were happy, and playing the expansions.

and if THAT was true, then they wouldnt had scrapped expansions all together

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> and if THAT was true, then they wouldnt had scrapped expansions all together

 

Did you miss the announcement of the next expansion?

 

> i would like a source on the core vs expansion numbers, i doubt those are true. if they were, then there shouldnt be any problems at all.

 

I would like **your** source on core vs expansion numbers. I don't need a source I play the game and can see which zone(s) have the most players, lurking on forums won't allow you to see the difference.

 

> that would mean, that the MAJORITY of players were happy, and playing the expansions.

 

The majority of players still left in the game probably yes. Forum lurkers maybe not

 

> 60 % is actually WAY better than wow, so if that number is correct, then the core game IS THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY!

 

Where are your wow numbers showing that 60% of their players didn't reach the mid point of the core/starting story?

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > and if THAT was true, then they wouldnt had scrapped expansions all together

>

> Did you miss the announcement of the next expansion?

>

> > i would like a source on the core vs expansion numbers, i doubt those are true. if they were, then there shouldnt be any problems at all.

>

> I would like **your** source on core vs expansion numbers. I don't need a source I play the game and can see which zone(s) have the most players, lurking on forums won't allow you to see the difference.

>

> > that would mean, that the MAJORITY of players were happy, and playing the expansions.

>

> The majority of players still left in the game probably yes. Forum lurkers maybe not

>

> > 60 % is actually WAY better than wow, so if that number is correct, then the core game IS THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY!

>

> Where are your wow numbers showing that 60% of their players didn't reach the mid point of the core/starting story?

 

they only did that after the forums lit up, and practically FORCED them

we know, that the core game sold roughly 6 mio, and hot around 1.5 mio, dont have any numbers on pof

it was in a post long time ago from one of the devs, AFAIR it was about raiding.

how many mmos have you tried over the years? how fast did you quit most of them? it all makes sense

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> we know, that the core game sold roughly 6 mio, and hot around 1.5 mio, dont have any numbers on pof

 

Source? I don't recall ever seeing hot sale numbers. Hot had to work with any players left playing the game when it was released. if out of those 6 millions that bought the core game, only 1.5 million left playing, because of the core game, then hot did a very good job indeed. Can't really expect an expansion to compare with an overhyped new game release.

 

> they only did that after the forums lit up, and practically FORCED them

 

Or they had it pre-planned months ago. At least until after the Icebrood Saga announcement.

 

> it was in a post long time ago from one of the devs, AFAIR it was about raiding.

 

Raiding and core game story are very different things. Also, "long time ago" and May 2020 might have very different results

[TwoGhosts.6790]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > change your build

> But this advice only goes so far as long as "changing your build" doesn't require the player to change their underlying playstyle.

 

That depends on whether your underlying play style is adequate to meet the challenge.

 

Underlying playstyle can be a euphemism for actually not being good enough; at pressing the right buttons, at the right time, in the right order, at the right speed; moving and positioning your character; understanding and selecting an appropriate build and gear.

 

These are, for certain parts of the game (for example, PvP , WvW, Raids.... HoT), neither trivial nor optional requirements in order to be effective and successful.

 

They require research, learning, practice, and the obtaining resources you need to acquire the gear you prefer... basically, effort.

 

Commensurate with that success, and the effort required to achieve it, is an associated sense of achievement and empowerment.

 

I think it was in this thread, much earlier, that I wrote about my own experience of HoT. In a nutshell, it completely changed the game for me, my engagement with it, and my understanding of it; painfully at first, but ultimately for the better.

 

There is a lot of measured, useful and thoughtful discussion and advice in this thread.

 

But I see it peppered with snide comments from some people to whom I can only say, unambiguously, you need to get good at the game, you need to stop being lazy, and you need to stop blaming other people for your own inability to meet the challenge.

 

I did. And I'm not a particularly good player.

But I'm a better one now.

And I enjoy the game more for it.

And I have HoT to thank for that. Along with the help and advice of others, and my own efforts.

 

Smug?

Sure, whatever, if it's important to you to believe that.

 

But take a long, hard look at that 'underlying playstyle' and ask yourself some honest questions.

 

Good luck.

[Tails.9372]

> @"TwoGhosts.6790" said:

> Underlying playstyle can be a euphemism for actually not being good enough; at pressing the right buttons, at the right time, in the right order, at the right speed; moving and positioning your character; understanding and selecting an appropriate build and gear.

Good job on ignoring the context, if you would have read further ahead you would have noticed that I was referring to the playstyle presented by the weapon set in question and that it should be expected for people to optimize as much as possible for it if they want to tackle more difficult content like raids.

[Euclid.2517]

Actually when I first step on HoT territory I constantly want to smash my keyboard.. :)

 

But it should be hard because we are in dragon's domain. It just makes great sense.

 

And after a while you just get used to it.

 

I think this is healthy for the game because fail-and-learn is an important and entertaining part of any game.

 

Most GW2 content (even raid) is pretty easy comparing to most other games once you get used to it.

[kharmin.7683]

I never get used to it. But, that's ok. There are plenty of other maps.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > we know, that the core game sold roughly 6 mio, and hot around 1.5 mio, dont have any numbers on pof

>

> Source? I don't recall ever seeing hot sale numbers. Hot had to work with any players left playing the game when it was released. if out of those 6 millions that bought the core game, only 1.5 million left playing, because of the core game, then hot did a very good job indeed. Can't really expect an expansion to compare with an overhyped new game release.

>

> > they only did that after the forums lit up, and practically FORCED them

>

> Or they had it pre-planned months ago. At least until after the Icebrood Saga announcement.

>

> > it was in a post long time ago from one of the devs, AFAIR it was about raiding.

>

> Raiding and core game story are very different things. Also, "long time ago" and May 2020 might have very different results

 

loooool....sure buddy. believe what u want. not gonna bother anymore. i actually think the next episode is going to be even closer to the core game.

try explaining the sudden drop in difficulty, so far into the game

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Euclid.2517" said:

> Actually when I first step on HoT territory I constantly want to smash my keyboard.. :)

>

> But it should be hard because we are in dragon's domain. It just makes great sense.

>

> And after a while you just get used to it.

>

> I think this is healthy for the game because fail-and-learn is an important and entertaining part of any game.

>

> Most GW2 content (even raid) is pretty easy comparing to most other games once you get used to it.

 

nope, i actively avoid it like the plague now. it is common to play it LAST.

and AFAIR their income dropped right after it launched. which makes sense, since it made many players quit the game