TPMN.1483 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts. > > Anet will remove LFG listings asking for gold for portal services - and eventually give bans. This has been stated before. > I would like you to post a link to this quote. > To me, selling JP carries is no functionally different than selling raid carries and that is allowed. > Link please. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 Seka.5647: What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”? From ANET response: •Advertising an access portal is not allowed. •Guild Recruitment is not allowed. Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool. Gaile Gray Communications Manager Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events ArenaNet 2015-02-06 18:30:27 UTC — I expect the guild recruitment has changed as there is now a specific LFG section for it. However the access portal stance has not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts. > > > Anet will remove LFG listings asking for gold for portal services - and eventually give bans. This has been stated before. > > I would like you to post a link to this quote. > > To me, selling JP carries is no functionally different than selling raid carries and that is allowed. > > Link please. > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 > > > > Seka.5647: > What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”? > > From ANET response: > •Advertising an access portal is not allowed. > •Guild Recruitment is not allowed. > Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool. > Gaile Gray > Communications Manager > Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events > ArenaNet > 2015-02-06 > 18:30:27 > UTC > > > — I expect the guild recruitment has changed as there is now a specific LFG section for it. However the access portal stance has not changed. Thank you. My mind is blown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts. > > > > Anet will remove LFG listings asking for gold for portal services - and eventually give bans. This has been stated before. > > > I would like you to post a link to this quote. > > > To me, selling JP carries is no functionally different than selling raid carries and that is allowed. > > > Link please. > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 > > > > > > > > Seka.5647: > > What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”? > > > > From ANET response: > > •Advertising an access portal is not allowed. > > •Guild Recruitment is not allowed. > > Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool. > > Gaile Gray > > Communications Manager > > Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events > > ArenaNet > > 2015-02-06 > > 18:30:27 > > UTC > > > > > > — I expect the guild recruitment has changed as there is now a specific LFG section for it. However the access portal stance has not changed. > Thank you. My mind is blown > While you can get reported for using the LFG tool that way, theres nothing making it against policy to post in map chat or throw a squad up and do the same thing without a LFG posting, and thats the only way ive ever seen people advertising portals anywho. > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > Yet, Official Policy is that the buying and selling of runs (in Dungeons, for example) is acceptable. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65566/policy-buying-and-selling-runs Exactly this. Am i unhappy that you can swipe a credit card and get a legendary? of course, but at the same time if thats the route players want to go then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPMN.1483 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"Dante.1763" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts. > > > > > Anet will remove LFG listings asking for gold for portal services - and eventually give bans. This has been stated before. > > > > I would like you to post a link to this quote. > > > > To me, selling JP carries is no functionally different than selling raid carries and that is allowed. > > > > Link please. > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 > > > > > > > > > > > > Seka.5647: > > > What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”? > > > > > > From ANET response: > > > •Advertising an access portal is not allowed. > > > •Guild Recruitment is not allowed. > > > Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool. > > > Gaile Gray > > > Communications Manager > > > Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events > > > ArenaNet > > > 2015-02-06 > > > 18:30:27 > > > UTC > > > > > > > > > — I expect the guild recruitment has changed as there is now a specific LFG section for it. However the access portal stance has not changed. > > Thank you. My mind is blown > > > While you can get reported for using the LFG tool that way, theres nothing making it against policy to post in map chat or throw a squad up and do the same thing without a LFG posting, and thats the only way ive ever seen people advertising portals anywho. > True - but however if the purchased access was acquired using RMT (Real money trading) you will also get your account banned for a period of time. (Reference is in the earlier link I posted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artcreator.4859 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I'm completely for this when you're giving out rewards and achievements for doing something, every player should have to do it the same way. You wouldnt give out the same rewards and achievement points for someone doing the easy mode and hard mode of a raid, so why would it be that way for JP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"TPMN.1483" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > The OP wants the ability to use mounts to bypass JPs removed because it takes players away from their portal services. They made it fairly evident in one of their posts. > > > > > > Anet will remove LFG listings asking for gold for portal services - and eventually give bans. This has been stated before. > > > > > I would like you to post a link to this quote. > > > > > To me, selling JP carries is no functionally different than selling raid carries and that is allowed. > > > > > Link please. > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seka.5647: > > > > What about selling access to ones home instance for gathering resources? Namely I just spotted this new type of selling in lfg just about an hour ago : " Sell access crafting nodes (17) for 20 silver…..->" . Does it belong to the dungeon sort of selling section or is it abusing the lfg due to selling access to “items”? > > > > > > > > From ANET response: > > > > •Advertising an access portal is not allowed. > > > > •Guild Recruitment is not allowed. > > > > Both are unrelated to forming a group and therefore are not part of the intended purpose of the Looking for Group Tool. > > > > Gaile Gray > > > > Communications Manager > > > > Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events > > > > ArenaNet > > > > 2015-02-06 > > > > 18:30:27 > > > > UTC > > > > > > > > > > > > — I expect the guild recruitment has changed as there is now a specific LFG section for it. However the access portal stance has not changed. > > > Thank you. My mind is blown > > > > > While you can get reported for using the LFG tool that way, theres nothing making it against policy to post in map chat or throw a squad up and do the same thing without a LFG posting, and thats the only way ive ever seen people advertising portals anywho. > > > > True - but however if the purchased access was acquired using RMT (Real money trading) you will also get your account banned for a period of time. > > (Reference is in the earlier link I posted). > One hundred percent agree that RMT should not be allowed at all. > @"artcreator.4859" said: > I'm completely for this when you're giving out rewards and achievements for doing something, every player should have to do it the same way. You wouldnt give out the same rewards and achievement points for someone doing the easy mode and hard mode of a raid, so why would it be that way for JP's. And yet..they do, as you can 100% buy the achievements for raid armor, is it expensive? sure, but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"coso.9173" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. 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kharmin.7683 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"coso.9173" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. Then we're not arguing the same points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. > > Then we're not arguing the same points. You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"WorldofBay.8160" said: > yeah right ok that is surely why i mentioned all these possible ... let's call them exploits. because i want nobody to use them, i tell everybody they exist and how to do them. that logic. that genius. You do remember, that if you realy think those are exploits, you should _not_ be posting any details on forums (as discussing specifics of exploits can get you a warn/suspension, and see the whole thread nuked)? So, do you really think it's an exploit (in which case you need to remove all of the details from your original post - probably too late for that anyway, since it got quoted already), or you don't really think so (and just dislike it), in which case we can discuss things further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"coso.9173" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > > > > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. > > > > Then we're not arguing the same points. > > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. Your feelings do not impact your ability to play the game and obtain the rewards unless you let them. No other player action is causing this issue for you -- it is YOUR choice. You have every right and chance to use whatever tools in-game that are available just like every other player. Because you choose not to do so does not invalidate others who do. By your argument, there should be no gem store either because I'm sure that there are things available there that other players choose not to purchase because they feel that the price is unfair. Does that affect their ability to play the game, too? This entire argument is about entitlement and "fair". Heck, just see the many threads about the compensation given for the EU servers being offline and see how many people cry about fairness. Life is not fair. And there are many out there who will have a rude awakening to this fact one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > > > > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > > > > > > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. > > > > > > Then we're not arguing the same points. > > > > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. > > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. > > Your feelings do not impact your ability to play the game and obtain the rewards unless you let them. No other player action is causing this issue for you -- it is YOUR choice. > > You have every right and chance to use whatever tools in-game that are available just like every other player. Because you choose not to do so does not invalidate others who do. By your argument, there should be no gem store either because I'm sure that there are things available there that other players choose not to purchase because they feel that the price is unfair. Does that affect their ability to play the game, too? > > This entire argument is about entitlement and "fair". Heck, just see the many threads about the compensation given for the EU servers being offline and see how many people cry about fairness. > > Life is not fair. And there are many out there who will have a rude awakening to this fact one day. > > We Will have a rude awakening? Dude I'm a 39 year old gay guy. Believe me when I say I've had quite my fair share of unfair experiences by now . Better not to assume things about others and keep this about the game okay? Like I said before. This is a non issue. I see people skipping JPs everyday and I'm not planning to change that. But do I feel things should be different? Sure! Things could be more fair. Next time you ask someone for their opinion about something, try to not tell them "your opinion not important" just after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"coso.9173" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > > > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. > > > > > > > > Then we're not arguing the same points. > > > > > > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. > > > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. > > > > Your feelings do not impact your ability to play the game and obtain the rewards unless you let them. No other player action is causing this issue for you -- it is YOUR choice. > > > > You have every right and chance to use whatever tools in-game that are available just like every other player. Because you choose not to do so does not invalidate others who do. By your argument, there should be no gem store either because I'm sure that there are things available there that other players choose not to purchase because they feel that the price is unfair. Does that affect their ability to play the game, too? > > > > This entire argument is about entitlement and "fair". Heck, just see the many threads about the compensation given for the EU servers being offline and see how many people cry about fairness. > > > > Life is not fair. And there are many out there who will have a rude awakening to this fact one day. > > > > > > We Will have a rude awakening? Dude I'm a 39 year old gay guy. Believe me when I say I've had quite my fair share of unfair experiences by now . Better not to assume things about others and keep this about the game okay? I didn't single you out. I said that there are many out there. I couldn't care less about your personal situation. You can get off of your soapbox. > Like I said before. This is a non issue. I see people skipping JPs everyday and I'm not planning to change that. But do I feel things should be different? Sure! Things could be more fair. > Next time you ask someone for their opinion about something, try to not tell them "your opinion not important" just after it. When have I ever said this? Talk about assuming. I have never, in this thread, invalidated someone's opinion. I have only asked for someone to show me where using gliders and mounts prevents other players from accessing jumping puzzles and achieving rewards. Other posters injected the "it's not fair" argument, but never has anyone answered my point. Regardless, on this you and I simply will never agree. 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coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, why? Players can complete jumping puzzles without mount/glider today. Right now. It is a choice and that choice in no way impacts how others choose to complete JPs just as choosing to use mount/glider in no way affects players' abilities to complete JPs without them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the same reason you don't just walk to the final chest in a dungeon with the boss being optional. It would in no way impact how others choose to complete the dungeon. It would just allow players who don't feel like actually doing the dungeon skip right to the rewards. Just like how players who don't feel like doing the jp can skip right to the rewards now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what's the problem? No one has answered how this affects anyone else. So what if someone skips to the end? You will be rewarded for arriving at the end of the dungeon or JP or whatever regardless of what other players do and you will get your reward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this affect anyone else's ability to play the game or obtain the reward? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does affect others of course. Because then most people wouldn't do that dungeon or jp. And that is not the intention of the devs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are usually given for something, not for free. It's the basis of MMOs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Obtaining the rewards via a poartal counts though? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet allowing players to finish jumping puzzles and obtain the achievements and rewards with little to no effort has been something they have allowed since launch. If they cared about players finishing the puzzles with no effort on their end they wouldnt have allowed portals to be used in puzzles, nor would they have made an item that allows players to reset themselves if they fail a jump. They did though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps they should rename achievements to something else. You get achievements for literally talking to NPCs, and its worth the same AP as completing a daily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO, using a portal to get to the ending of a jp isn't right either. Portals should only be for the caster in that situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get it, I think? You enjoy doing jumping puzzles and are ... dissatisfied when other players do them with a mount/glider/portal. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want the rewards without the challenge, buy gems, convert them into gold, and buy things on the TP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is also an option, sure. Should that, then, be disallowed now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still: no one has said how players using mounts/gliders to complete JPs in any way affects other players from doing the same in whatever manner that they choose. This entire argument is such a non-starter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not. Even if we might not care much about it, it is ultimately unfair. > > > > > > > > I have done a lot of content I don't enjoy to get things I want. I hate pvp, but I had to do it to get the armor I wanted. Same with wvw. Why should I do content I don't enjoy to get a reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and get the reward directly? That is the issue. Why can others play the way they prefer, and I am can't ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you can. Until Anet caved and set up no-fly zones, every player with a glider (and later mounts) was able to do JPs with them. This argument has nothing to do with rewards from PvP or WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my post again then if you don't understand. It was explained very clearly what the issue is. > > > > > > > > > > Then we're not arguing the same points. > > > > > > > > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. > > > > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. > > > > > > Your feelings do not impact your ability to play the game and obtain the rewards unless you let them. No other player action is causing this issue for you -- it is YOUR choice. > > > > > > You have every right and chance to use whatever tools in-game that are available just like every other player. Because you choose not to do so does not invalidate others who do. By your argument, there should be no gem store either because I'm sure that there are things available there that other players choose not to purchase because they feel that the price is unfair. Does that affect their ability to play the game, too? > > > > > > This entire argument is about entitlement and "fair". Heck, just see the many threads about the compensation given for the EU servers being offline and see how many people cry about fairness. > > > > > > Life is not fair. And there are many out there who will have a rude awakening to this fact one day. > > > > > > > > > > We Will have a rude awakening? Dude I'm a 39 year old gay guy. Believe me when I say I've had quite my fair share of unfair experiences by now . Better not to assume things about others and keep this about the game okay? > I didn't single you out. I said that there are many out there. I couldn't care less about your personal situation. You can get off of your soapbox. > > Like I said before. This is a non issue. I see people skipping JPs everyday and I'm not planning to change that. But do I feel things should be different? Sure! Things could be more fair. > > Next time you ask someone for their opinion about something, try to not tell them "your opinion not important" just after it. > When have I ever said this? Talk about assuming. I have never, in this thread, invalidated someone's opinion. I have only asked for someone to show me where using gliders and mounts prevents other players from accessing jumping puzzles and achieving rewards. Other posters injected the "it's not fair" argument, but never has anyone answered my point. > > Regardless, on this you and I simply will never agree. > > > evidently. 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joneirikb.7506 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Regarding the idea of the no mount/flying zones, and separating it from the JP part: One option could be to make the actual JP into a instance, even a public instance. That way they could set the rule for no mount/flying in the entire instance. And you'd have to chose to enter it, thus the no mount/fly zone wouldn't extend to the OW map. This means that anyone could use mount/gliding to go and explore any part of the JP area in the OW map, but wouldn't be able to get the daily completion/chest/achivement etc for it. But it would also be a good way for people to practise at parts they find difficult, and just mount/glide back to try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coso.9173 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"joneirikb.7506" said: > Regarding the idea of the no mount/flying zones, and separating it from the JP part: > > One option could be to make the actual JP into a instance, even a public instance. That way they could set the rule for no mount/flying in the entire instance. And you'd have to chose to enter it, thus the no mount/fly zone wouldn't extend to the OW map. This means that anyone could use mount/gliding to go and explore any part of the JP area in the OW map, but wouldn't be able to get the daily completion/chest/achivement etc for it. But it would also be a good way for people to practise at parts they find difficult, and just mount/glide back to try again. it's not a bad idea, but seems overly complicated to have them apart. I personally prefer to have some kind of status affliction when doing the JP that allows/disallows mounts and is required to get the achievement and the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"TPMN.1483" said: > True - but however if the purchased access was acquired using RMT (Real money trading) you will also get your account banned for a period of time. > > (Reference is in the earlier link I posted). > Accepting gold for any reason carries that same risk. It doesn't matter if you are selling runs, shovels, clouds, luck, portals, etc. or even just accepting gold that is randomly sent to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perisemiotics.4579 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 > @"WorldofBay.8160" said: > 4. Professor Portmatt's Lab > possibly one of the more hated ones because it is actually a puzzle this one can also be entirely skipped very easy with a springer, a griffon and the bond of faith. simply climb the lighthouse on stormbluff isle and fly over. use the bond to jump off of the griffon just before the no fly zone and you'll land right on the end chest. you're dead but you still get it counted as completed. wait... as far as I remember whenever you use Bond of Faith your character will ignore fall damage regardless of height or distance traveled... I agree with you but I think the problem is, to properly "fix" these no-fly zones would have to be weirdly expanded to the point that, on one hand, new players coming into those areas would be dismounted without knowing why (or they'd suspect a JP is nearby through an artificial measure) and, on the other, players not at all interested in the JP would be forced out of their mounts over a wide area for something they don't care about. > @"pninak.1069" said: > another option would be to create no-skill no-mount no-glide zones during the first playthrough of a jp. but this just means that newcomers still have the option to get ported by a mesmer. but are forced to do it normally if no mesmer is present. in consecutive playthroughs the zones no longer exist. while this sounds interesting at first, imagine how many _thoughtful_ people would park their hovering Skyscales at crucial jumps of the JP - they'd even make a string with them to make sure no one would see a pixel beyond all those flapping wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahrya.3097 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 > @"BunjiKugashira.9754" said: > I don't think that no-mount-zones and no-gliding-zones are the way to go. Even now they often stretch out into the non-jp world and being thrown off your mount for no good reason is obnoxious. > > A better solution would be to add a jp-starter at the beginning of every jp. > - As long as you have the buff, you can't use mounts or the glider > - You need the buff in order to open the chest > - The buff gets automatically removed if you leave the jp area > > This completely removes the need for no-mount-zones and no-glider-zones. > If ANet wants people to complete the jp for the daily chest, the daily achievement can be tied to looting the jp chest. I personally prefer the solution proposed by Bunji, or something along these lines. Wrote about a similar thing in the SAB thread (skip the TL;DR part and below): [sAB thread](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1211460#Comment_1211460) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 > @"Khisanth.2948" said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > Thanks for all the tips on how to cheese these JPs. :mrgreen: > > There are a bunch of others OP is missing. :P > At least 18 of the JPs in the JP achievements category can be completed with a mount and/or gliding. > For the remainder there are ones that can be skipped with things like the experimental portal gun. > Then there are ones with partial skip ... > Off the top of my head I actually can't think of any JP's that I can't get around using a mount or glider.. except the Obsidian Sanctum and that other one in WvW but all the core game PvE ones I'm pretty sure I've worked out ways around the restrictions.. As I said in my post above, figuring that stuff out is actually something that keeps Jp's fun and enjoyable to me after 8 years. > but even with knowing all that it's still not worth the effort to do those except for the dailies since JP rewards are sufficiently crappy not to care > If anyone was actually doing it for the rewards they would be much better off parking characters at Tomb of Primeval Kings and open all the chests. This is the main reason I don't see validity in the comments talking abotu skipping dungeons. The rewards you get from most core JP's are barely worth the effort of doing the JP even with mounts.. outside of dailies and the occasional feel like it moment they're not worth the time at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 > @"artcreator.4859" said: > I'm completely for this when you're giving out rewards and achievements for doing something, every player should have to do it the same way. You wouldnt give out the same rewards and achievement points for someone doing the easy mode and hard mode of a raid, so why would it be that way for JP's. It's a big assumption for one thing. Chances are most people who are using mounts to beat JP's did the achievements for all of them years before Mounts were even added to the game.. I can certainly attest to that as beating all the JP's was one of the first active AP hunting things I did in the pre expansion years of Gw2. New Players on the other hand are going to have to pay or play a decent amount of Gw2 before they unlock the Springer, Griffon, Skyscale and Bond of Faith Mastery combination that most use to get around JP restrictions.. Considering how easy these JP's actually are I highly doubt many players are going to leave them until they've gone through all that work to get those 3 mounts and the Bond.. specially when Mesmers can just port them to the end as well. > @"coso.9173" said: > You asked me how it affects me that others get the reward for free. And I answered. It affects me because I feel it's unfair I'm forced to do content I don't enjoy to get a certain reward, while others are allowed to skip content they don't enjoy and still get the rewards. > I don't think I can make it any more clear than that. The main problem with your argument here is that you are comparing the meager, almost trash rewards from a JP to exclusive higher tier rewards from other game modes. If JP's were giving out guaranteed exotics and ascended stuff then ok.. I would agree with you that it is a problem. But they dont.. getting anything useful or even decent is really rare for core JP rewards, that's why you can't compare them to raids, dungeons and other game mode rewards that you don't enjoy. It's just not a fair comparison at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualkenny.9817 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Just put moto at the start of every jp, and players who want to can talk to him to be transformed into an sab npc of ur choice, no skills no glider no mounts no nth. No additional rewards, just vanilla jp. (And let the rest of us continue to get quick dailies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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