Bast.7253 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Because it has broken sustain, cc spam, and way too high of damage for a support class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Tempest dies to any pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Where did all the Necromancers go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Well, currently there's only really Tempest and FB to choose between for a support role. You're gonna get one of them. Druid and Blood Scourge were killed off and I assume there's a good reason we aren't seeing Support Scrappers, but I don't play Engi so I couldn't tell you why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 nice, that we have new meta and this is tempest. Hope they will boost it more to get fun for many players! p.s I check ele myself, don't fin an powerful. And not see nay fun in ele now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 > @"Elmo Benchwarmer.3025" said: > Where did all the Necromancers go? nowhere? I still see them every game. instead of holding hands with FB now they hold hands with tempests. god bless low rankings, people actually play 4fun there, ill int games if I have to, dont wanna deal with bullshit 3man condi bunker cancer specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 > @"Aktium.9506" said: > Well, currently there's only really Tempest and FB to choose between for a support role. You're gonna get one of them. > > Druid and Blood Scourge were killed off and I assume there's a good reason we aren't seeing Support Scrappers, but I don't play Engi so I couldn't tell you why. seems like scraps would be popular in a condi meta. maybe ppl are too busy qq'ing instead of counter comping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > Well, currently there's only really Tempest and FB to choose between for a support role. You're gonna get one of them. > > > > Druid and Blood Scourge were killed off and I assume there's a good reason we aren't seeing Support Scrappers, but I don't play Engi so I couldn't tell you why. > > seems like scraps would be popular in a condi meta. maybe ppl are too busy qq'ing instead of counter comping. I don't play engi myself so I can't say if a build would or would not work, but from all the support engies I've fought against it seems they don't output enough healing to be a proper support, rather than some hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelska.4609 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 That is what happens when mechanics almost exclusive to one profession gets forgotten in a big balance patch, with developers too scared to hotfix these. Yes, I am speaking about auras, lich form damage coefficients, pets damage coefficients, burn guard, engie mortar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > Tempest dies to any pressure Every class dies to pressure.... Also the reason that tempest is in every match is because conditions are completely and utterly out of control and tempest and condi rev are the best counters to them. 60%+ uptime shocking aura in AOE is the issue with tempest. Remove rune of radiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > Because it has broken sustain, cc spam, and way too high of damage for a support class. > > Well, someone must have not read through the damn essay of nerfs tempest got during its stardom of HoT someone lemme educate you: The reason why Tempest is 'broke' is because of lightning rod. That's it. Over the years they have nerfed and not in any specific order: -Most is the shouts, especially their healing one - Made obsidian skin lock itself in an animation where you can't use any skills - Nerfed diamond skin - Nerfed their burst heal on water - Removed ALL tanky runes so they can legit only be a squishy mender - Nerfed Overload Air to hit less targets - Nerfed Overload Air's damage - Had dogsht and still have dogsht traits besides like three notable ones - Had a whole rework on most of the tempest line because they legit couldn't stand up to Firebrand Now let's hit you with more facts: - They have less stability than firebrands - Have less burst than firebrand - Have less burst heals than firebrand (they might be on the same level now due to minor needs to the tomes) - Can no longer bunker like in HoT - Has no access to aegis - Cannot spit out six different boons unless they force most of the it skills in cooldowns while Firebrand gives more for less. - Gets countered harder by common power builds including Rev of any kind, Thief of any kind, Power Mes, SB, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Reaper, Core Guard and sometimes DH if they get a good jump. Firebrand can at least mitigate damage from most of these classes except for like Reaper Firebrand was able to do all of that and more, and very much well still can during this time. Tempest is only taken SOLELY because they had reworked dagger TWICE to have some decent-ish skills now with the auras, trait reworks to air and fire regarding their auras, AND because of lightning rod. You take out lightning rod and the class becomes a B tier spec at most and still pales in comparison to Firebrand. So how about we stop lying on people because it's neither cute nor funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xWiroo.3841 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 as someone said before, tempest pales compared to fb, fb can give better boons for longer periods and better aoe pressure. Temp has magnetic and electric aura, and thats it, thats the big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 why we not happy if tempest a great choose ? let people take this perfect and make us stronger. Why we want skip this challenge and run away ? May be opposite, we should be glad, may be ask it boot more, to get more positive feel our elementalists ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Every class dies to pressure.... Fake news > Also the reason that tempest is in every match is because conditions are completely and utterly out of control and tempest and condi rev are the best counters to them. And that's a good thing. Let the meta shape itself. > 60%+ uptime shocking aura in AOE is the issue with tempest. Remove rune of radiance. I already asked for "reduce aura share to half duration". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 > @"Hirosama Nadasaki.6792" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > > Well, currently there's only really Tempest and FB to choose between for a support role. You're gonna get one of them. > > > > > > Druid and Blood Scourge were killed off and I assume there's a good reason we aren't seeing Support Scrappers, but I don't play Engi so I couldn't tell you why. > > > > seems like scraps would be popular in a condi meta. maybe ppl are too busy qq'ing instead of counter comping. > > I don't play engi myself so I can't say if a build would or would not work, but from all the support engies I've fought against it seems they don't output enough healing to be a proper support, rather than some hybrid. Not sure it's that alone, as Ele provides a crapton of CC on top of cleanses/heals, has an AoE stunbreak, and with Dagger can be slippery. Actually got MOA'd the other day during an Earth overload...feelsbad lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > Because it has broken sustain, cc spam, and way too high of damage for a support class. There's no support class, only support builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistsim.2748 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Boon strip, immob, condis. 90% of tempests melt under some preassure. Really good ones can be tough to take down, but it's still ok when focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Fire.6870 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I mentioned this before because of the reduction of dmg killing a healer getting harder in combination with **(3vs 3 or 2v2s) and low rang** they can become undying. I said that in regards of heal tempest which use teleport to escape the fight long enough to heal himself up again. But I know this is true for FB and heal warrior too with the correct builds. The problem isn't so much their heal its the fact that they are tanks which face less dps then before. In the end it is exactly what people screamed for on the board less dps and smaller teams(??). When we now reduce the HP and heal we are exactly where we started again just with smaller numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"mistsim.2748" said: > Boon strip, immob, condis. 90% of tempests melt under some preassure. Really good ones can be tough to take down, but it's still ok when focused. Assuming the complimentary necro isn't loading you up with cover condis ontop of the immob or fearing you in between shocking auras. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > I mentioned this before because of the reduction of dmg killing a healer getting harder in combination with **(3vs 3 or 2v2s) and low rang** they can become undying. I said that in regards of heal tempest which use teleport to escape the fight long enough to heal himself up again. But I know this is true for FB and heal warrior too with the correct builds. The problem isn't so much their heal its the fact that they are tanks which face less dps then before. > > In the end it is exactly what people screamed for on the board less dps and smaller teams(??). When we now reduce the HP and heal we are exactly where we started again just with smaller numbers. They also do a significant amount of damage with overloads, and in a cc heavy comp can leave you trapped. They're just really strong in a 3v3 setting. Mes/Thief or some other bursty class can eat a firebrand far easier than they can eat a tempest, imo. With tempest having an immob shout, shocking aura, stability on overload, superspeed/swiftness the rest of their team can widdle you down or cc lock you before you even get a window of opportunity. That's not even including the invuln from focus, the cripple from overload, or the dazes from lightning field combos. Ultimately I guess it just boils down to switching to something that counters it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swagolas.9732 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Aktium.9506" said: > Well, currently there's only really Tempest and FB to choose between for a support role. You're gonna get one of them. > > Druid and Blood Scourge were killed off and I assume there's a good reason we aren't seeing Support Scrappers, but I don't play Engi so I couldn't tell you why. Playing support Engi from the start of the season and it's fun to play, instant condi cleanse and mass protection spam for every1 with mass reflections and stuns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Fire.6870 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > I mentioned this before because of the reduction of dmg killing a healer getting harder in combination with **(3vs 3 or 2v2s) and low rang** they can become undying. I said that in regards of heal tempest which use teleport to escape the fight long enough to heal himself up again. But I know this is true for FB and heal warrior too with the correct builds. The problem isn't so much their heal its the fact that they are tanks which face less dps then before. > > > > In the end it is exactly what people screamed for on the board less dps and smaller teams(??). When we now reduce the HP and heal we are exactly where we started again just with smaller numbers. > > They also do a significant amount of damage with overloads, and in a cc heavy comp can leave you trapped. They're just really strong in a 3v3 setting. Mes/Thief or some other bursty class can eat a firebrand far easier than they can eat a tempest, imo. With tempest having an immob shout, shocking aura, stability on overload, superspeed/swiftness the rest of their team can widdle you down or cc lock you before you even get a window of opportunity. > > That's not even including the invuln from focus, the cripple from overload, or the dazes from lightning field combos. Ultimately I guess it just boils down to switching to something that counters it. I think that are multiply builds in one . Okay let me try this would be a tempest with dagger/focus. Elites teleport, superspeed , aftershock. if you take stabi you don't have shout share if you want lightning field you need staff as weapon. Focus is as healer/supporter the worst choice to make you basically heal then only with your overload. Dmg I'm not sure I think only air can be a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 first what we should change - is understanding. This is not "problem", this is gift. On normal mmo game one some bliud, can kill 10 others .. And this is cool. But here I see what some, not visible for me, small different in stat spread panic for some members.. Can you explain why you think something wrong with elem? Ok, in some hand elem stronger .. so what the problem? why we should ask some equality between class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorKadeen.3846 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > Because it has broken sustain, cc spam, and way too high of damage for a support class. > > > > > > Well, someone must have not read through the kitten essay of nerfs tempest got during its stardom of HoT someone lemme educate you: > > The reason why Tempest is 'broke' is because of lightning rod. That's it. > just lelelel... "lemme educate you" big oof when you talk nonsense > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > Now let's hit you with more facts: > - They have less stability than firebrands > - Have less burst than firebrand > - Have less burst heals than firebrand (they might be on the same level now due to minor needs to the tomes) Burst heal is massivly stronger than firebrand with the right build. Firebrand got nerved harder than tempest. (It was also beforming better, so derserved) > - Can no longer bunker like in HoT bunker is boring and it was OP @ HoT times, why compare? > - Has no access to aegis > - Cannot spit out six different boons unless they force most of the it skills in cooldowns while Firebrand gives more for less. > - Gets countered harder by common power builds including Rev of any kind, Thief of any kind, Power Mes, SB, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Reaper, Core Guard and sometimes DH if they get a good jump. Firebrand can at least mitigate damage from most of these classes except for like Reaper Tempest can surive pretty good. At least on e none-meme build. just watch some MOTA games and learn. (if fb in lockdown he is dead, if tempest he mf's out) (i mean no crit on earth ... sounds like an OP trait) > Firebrand was able to do all of that and more, and very much well still can during this time. Tempest is only taken SOLELY because they had reworked dagger TWICE to have some decent-ish skills now with the auras, trait reworks to air and fire regarding their auras, AND because of lightning rod. You take out lightning rod and the class becomes a B tier spec at most and still pales in comparison to Firebrand. i dont know why you talk about dagger rework... dagger was always good... with the earthern rush and convergence changes it got little buffs. But you took dagger cause of mobility and shockaura... LR was strong and many played it after power coef reduce. CAuse they forgot about it. got nerved. now standard auramancer is meta. and even before lr wasnt that broken. Only really broken skill @ ele in general is shoking aura. (And tornado is still kinda OP in teamfights) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Crinny.6190 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > I mentioned this before because of the reduction of dmg killing a healer getting harder in combination with **(3vs 3 or 2v2s) and low rang** they can become undying. I said that in regards of heal tempest which use teleport to escape the fight long enough to heal himself up again. But I know this is true for FB and heal warrior too with the correct builds. The problem isn't so much their heal its the fact that they are tanks which face less dps then before. > > > > In the end it is exactly what people screamed for on the board less dps and smaller teams(??). When we now reduce the HP and heal we are exactly where we started again just with smaller numbers. > > They also do a significant amount of damage with overloads, and in a cc heavy comp can leave you trapped. They're just really strong in a 3v3 setting. Mes/Thief or some other bursty class can eat a firebrand far easier than they can eat a tempest, imo. With tempest having an immob shout, shocking aura, stability on overload, superspeed/swiftness the rest of their team can widdle you down or cc lock you before you even get a window of opportunity. > > That's not even including the invuln from focus, the cripple from overload, or the dazes from lightning field combos. Ultimately I guess it just boils down to switching to something that counters it. In a CC heavy meta, how does tempest manage to get an overload off without someone CCing it once or twice? Also it's 3v3 anet shouldn't balance classes based on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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