Pride Flag Capes

[kharmin.7683]

I prefer my fantasy world not to reflect my real world.

[Solanum.6983]

Would love it but only if proceeds went to a Charity like the Trevor project or something otherwise it's not really supporting but more so profiting of Pride and LGBT Community.

 

For anyone saying they don't want politics in this game.. Firstly, It's about much more than the political statement of standing up to discrimination and secondly too late, there's already gay characters in the game. I don't see any valid reason why not.

[Quench.7091]

If there's one thing I've learned about online gaming, it's that people will dress like Ronald McDonald wearing a rainbow flag cape if they are given the choice. Most people either want to look sexy, stupid, or cool. They'll either be a G.I.R.L (Guy In Real Life) dressed super sexy with a lesbian theme or a gay Hamburgler.

[Hyrai.8720]

> @"Amy of Darkness.5248" said:

> So wait, so you're saying fighting discrimination, something that should be intrinsic to the foundation of democracy and the very core principle of justice, is a bridge too far?

> Then by that logic, encouraging people to do their civic duty and vote is far too political.

>

> Let's be real here, people here are uncomfortable that gay people exist and that discrimination exists and don't want a rainbow around reminding them.

> The problem is you've chosen to view people being proud of their identity in the face of adversity as inherently political if they actually show signs of said pride instead of secretly, quietly being gay somewhere that won't upset you.

 

i dont agree on the uncomfortable about gay people part, but essentially youre right.

people have to face the reality, including sexism, racism, discrimination etc. enough in real life. we don't need more reminders for that in a video game which is supposed to let players escape from real life every now and then.

 

also, if we get a rainbow cape, we also need a black cape, a brown cape, a yellow cape, a pink cape, and many many more capes for all kinds of communities that need support against discrimination. and at some point there is such a cape clutter that the initial thought gets lost.

 

edit:

the fact that there are player-organized pride parades shows that this topic is already rather present within our community. so there really is no need for a rainbow cape to further push it.

[Josiah.2967]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

>

> On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

 

In a game with:

Rainbow Trail Effects

Shooting Rainbows

Rainbow Unicorns

Rainbow inspired finishers

Rainbow Ground Effects

 

You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> >

> > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

>

> In a game with:

> Rainbow Trail Effects

> Shooting Rainbows

> Rainbow Unicorns

> Rainbow inspired finishers

> Rainbow Ground Effects

>

> You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

 

To be fair, the listed items were not necessarily reference to politics, which is different from asking an item to be made specifically for politics purposes.

 

I'd rather they keep doing things as they do already : Add representation through believable stories. It's a more commonly accepted way to bring politics into a game.

[Quench.7091]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> >

> > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

>

> In a game with:

> Rainbow Trail Effects

> Shooting Rainbows

> Rainbow Unicorns

> Rainbow inspired finishers

> Rainbow Ground Effects

>

> You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

 

I think he was just taking issue with the real life references to the political aspect of the movement. People can ironically turn anything in a game into something it's not. I've heard stories about Old School Runescape once having a gay pride event. People ran around in white robes and chef hats or dyed themselves obnoxious rainbow colors. Players currently already have the ability to dress up in rainbows, as you've said. Showing pride I'd say is already obtainable, but Anet going in with something blunt might have players return with blunt results.

[Josiah.2967]

> @"Quench.7091" said:

> > @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> > >

> > > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

> >

> > In a game with:

> > Rainbow Trail Effects

> > Shooting Rainbows

> > Rainbow Unicorns

> > Rainbow inspired finishers

> > Rainbow Ground Effects

> >

> > You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

>

> I think he was just taking issue with the real life references to the political aspect of the movement. People can ironically turn anything in a game into something it's not. I've heard stories about Old School Runescape once having a gay pride event. People ran around in white robes and chef hats or dyed themselves obnoxious rainbow colors. Players currently already have the ability to dress up in rainbows, as you've said. Showing pride I'd say is already obtainable, but Anet going in with something blunt might have players return with blunt results.

 

Politics aside, just announce vertical and horizontal striped cloak that gives you the option to create a rainbow. I would like a simple striped cloak. Then again, you could create country flags on it too... Would that be an issue? I guess you could make everything an issue if you try hard enough.

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > @"Quench.7091" said:

> > > @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> > > >

> > > > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

> > >

> > > In a game with:

> > > Rainbow Trail Effects

> > > Shooting Rainbows

> > > Rainbow Unicorns

> > > Rainbow inspired finishers

> > > Rainbow Ground Effects

> > >

> > > You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

> >

> > I think he was just taking issue with the real life references to the political aspect of the movement. People can ironically turn anything in a game into something it's not. I've heard stories about Old School Runescape once having a gay pride event. People ran around in white robes and chef hats or dyed themselves obnoxious rainbow colors. Players currently already have the ability to dress up in rainbows, as you've said. Showing pride I'd say is already obtainable, but Anet going in with something blunt might have players return with blunt results.

>

> Politics aside, just announce vertical and horizontal striped cloak that gives you the option to create a rainbow. I would like a simple striped cloak. Then again, you could create country flags on it too... Would that be an issue? I guess you could make everything an issue if you try hard enough.

 

If it's not made with a Purpose other than to let people display various colors, like they already do with dyes, then it's perfectly fine, how people decide to Apply their expression is perfectly fine as well, it's just different if a company outright goes political by calling it out.

 

You'd likely face an issue of not having enough dye channels to represent the Rainbow, but that is something that might be fixed through the addition of sort of shimmering dyes (going from one color tone to another) in which case, you could easily represent a rainbow

[Endless Soul.5178]

I went with the 6-colored armor route as there's really nothing else that can be done, and I'm ok with that.

[Teratus.2859]

I think AliamRationem.5172 summed it up more than enough.

 

I think it's also relevant to add as well that inside Tyria a lot of these real world issues don't really exist.

There's no anti LGBT narratives in Gw2.. no homophobic factions and even in game racism only really happens only between the different races.

What's going on with Charr supremacists for example and the Renegade and Sepratist factions back when the game first came out, along with Tengu.

Even Canthan Xenophobia is largely based on this as well with Canthans distrusting other races while still trading with other Human Nations until Zhaitan cut off their trade routes, but even then they still tried to reach the mainland and traded with the foreign Zephyrites as well which were allowed to land in Canthan territory.

 

I do expect there to be a bit more generic racism when we do get to Cantha.. Humans allied with other races likely getting looked down upon for doing so.

But racism among Humans.. Canthans hating Krytans or Krytans hating Elonans for example, I am pretty sure doesn't exist or is at best extremely rare in Gw2 to my knowledge.. it is largley racism between Gw2 races or to be more accurate the different species of Gw2.

There was some distrust between races in Gw1 though.. such as Ascalonians distrusting Krytans but that wasn't based on a dislike of race, it was based on history from the Guildwars.

 

If anyone knows of any in game examples to disprove anything i've said there please do correct me, im pretty confident I got my facts straight there but if not I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

 

So with real world issues being brought into the game.. I personally don't mind people doing things like Pride marches, I'm pretty sure I sorta joined the last one when I found it walking through Queensdale.. I have a Light Blue and gold Shimmering Skyscale with bright wings that change colour from Red to Green as it flaps them so it fit in quite well with all the colours and I followed them around for a bit, was a cool experience seeing so many people marching about and having fun together.

 

However I did also notice there was a number of trolls and more unpleasent people in the map chat that were making a lot of jokes (trolls) and genuinely derogatory statements about LGBT (the more unpleasent people).. I think that distinction is worth making as well because it's too often blurred and unfair to many trolls who are just making harmless jokes and trying to wind people up for a bit of fun but don't actually harbour any real ill will to anyone but I digress.

 

Bringing real world political issues into games does tend to invite arguments, split players apart and a cause a whole load of mild trolling and genuine hateful abuse.

I believe that regardless of the issue.. it's always going to be divisive and cause unnecessary fighting.

 

Gaming is supposed to be our escape from reality.. A safe place where everyone can go regardless of our beliefs, opinions, preferences etc and get away from all the stressful real world problems that drive us all equally crazy.

And for just a few hours a day we can all co-exist peacefully in a fantasy world where we are united by our love for the game.

 

Bringing real world politics into games just ruins that.. for everybody, even if you choose not to get involved just witnessing all the hate and division that flows into in the chat is depressing..

People who were helping one another, laughing together and enjoying each others company minutes ago.. can be turned to screaming at each other because someone decided to throw a political statement into the chat and only one of them agreed with it or disagreed with it and offended the other by making a mean remark about the subject or political figure etc..

 

It's sad how easy it is for a community of people who love the same thing to be completely ripped apart by just a single voice making a single statement.

I don't think we should ever give bad actors and troublemakers that kind of power, we should always be united by how much we love this game and leave the real world politics in the real world where it belongs.

That's just my opinion though, hope everyone is having a good morning, day, evning, night wherever you are.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Josiah.2967" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> >

> > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

>

> In a game with:

> Rainbow Trail Effects

> Shooting Rainbows

> Rainbow Unicorns

> Rainbow inspired finishers

> Rainbow Ground Effects

>

> You draw the line at a rainbow back piece? To each their own. If it was released a week before Pride month, would it be a problem?

 

Yeah, to each their own...except we're in agreement, which you'd have noticed if you'd bothered to read past the first sentence. But you do you, as always! It hasn't stopped most others in this thread from completely misinterpreting what I have to say. But why not? If anything you say isn't 100% agreement with the agenda, who cares what else you might have to say? It's all invalidated from the moment you didn't toe the line, am I right? Welcome to the age of social media!

[Excursion.9752]

I've always thought that taking a neutral stance on polarizing subjects is the best any corporation can do. So having something that could be dyed in a specific way would be ideal.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game.

 

But it's okay to have half-naked manga girls running around in GW2?

[mindcircus.1506]

I guarantee that if Arenanet offered a free Tshirt and shorts outfit supporting BLM or Pride that every last person here saying "I don't want politics in my video game" would claim it.

[Deimos.4263]

It might not be *quite* what you're looking for, but if you have a guild cape/kite you could modify your guild's emblem to something that feels LGBT to you, and add whatever dyes you feel are appropriate to the cape.

[kharmin.7683]

If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

[Hannelore.8153]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> I guarantee that if Arenanet offered a free Tshirt and shorts outfit supporting BLM or Pride that every last person here saying "I don't want politics in my video game" would claim it.

 

Not only that but (and this may seem a little heated, but its not), often the people who tell me they don't want "politics" in games/on their platform, or don't support gays, lesbians or transfolk in general are the first to DM me with something spicey. They don't want to see it, or be around it, but they do want to be a part of it, and enjoy it, as long as no one can see or know.

 

Can't people just be honest with others, and themselves for that matter?

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > I guarantee that if Arenanet offered a free Tshirt and shorts outfit supporting BLM or Pride that every last person here saying "I don't want politics in my video game" would claim it.

>

> Not only that but (and this may seem a little heated, but its not), often the people who tell me they don't want "politics" in games/on their platform, or don't support gays, lesbians or transfolk in general are the first to DM me with something spicey. They don't want to see it, or be around it, but they do want to be a part of it, and enjoy it, as long as no one can see or know.

>

> Can't people just be honest with others, and themselves for that matter?

 

I'll -honestly- say that for my part, I claimed the shirt, but have never wore it once on any of my characters, because I feel it doesn't fit the tone of the game nor my characters. But I do acknowledge and support the message by claiming the outfit, is that so unfair ?

I play the game to relax and cut myself off from a life and world rife with problems, seeing too much of it displayed prominently, bring those problems on the fore front to me, which is not Pleasant. The idea is nice, well intentionned, and I can acknowledge the issue all the same, but the less I see it every day, the better I feel. I feel miserable enough looking around me every day, this game is my refuge from such problems to start with.

 

Now, I'll repeat again what I, and others have said through the thread : Add items not based on a statement, but on the basis that players will then choose how to express themselves after. It is a different thing when it comes from a company, rather than from individual players. Give players the option to create that representation, but dont create an item that is meant to be used that way. Not everyone will use it for pride, sure enough, but then the item would no longer inherently political, but it can still be used that way if some people feel inclined.

 

Now if you want the company to make a statement instead of just releasing an item that isn't specifically targetted to a part of the Community, that is something entirely different I would say. And I would argue that Anet has already taken position on the issue : In Tyria, Kasmeer and Marjory dont need to display overtly their affection toward one another, because nobody opposes their union, and nobody makes a special thing out of it, it is normal, as it should be. It's a statement on it's own : that same-sex couples are considered normal, which is different from the real world where you would get oppositions in parts of the world.

 

Nobody is Reasonably saying they dont support pride, they just want to keep it seperate from a game who does Not comprise the issues of the real world. I wont quit, or look down on the company for actually releasing such an item, even if they do decide to make it an open statement, but, again, I would not use the item, and would still consider it removes immersion. That's my opinion, as I'm sure, others' as well, and I would like that opinion not to be painted as anything else.

[Quench.7091]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> I guarantee that if Arenanet offered a free Tshirt and shorts outfit supporting BLM or Pride that every last person here saying "I don't want politics in my video game" would claim it.

 

If there was a free t-shirt with Joseph Stalin's face on it, people would claim it.

[Exhale.6541]

> @"Quench.7091" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > I guarantee that if Arenanet offered a free Tshirt and shorts outfit supporting BLM or Pride that every last person here saying "I don't want politics in my video game" would claim it.

>

> If there was a free t-shirt with Joseph Stalin's face on it, people would claim it.

 


 

 

 

[Mutisija.5017]

it seems that a whole lot of people agree that visible existence of lgbt people is politics. i guess from now on my political stance is im gay, and im going to vote for the im gay in next election.

[Hyrai.8720]

it seems you have no idea about politics. :smiley:

[Quench.7091]

> @"Mutisija.5017" said:

> it seems that a whole lot of people agree that visible existence of lgbt people is politics. i guess from now on my political stance is im gay, and im going to vote for the im gay in next election.

 

The pride flag is supposed to be a call for acceptance. Without that call to action, it would just be a rainbow flag with no meaning behind it. You may have confused that call to action with your sexuality. Your sexuality isn't political. The call for change is.

[Mutisija.5017]

> @"Quench.7091" said:

> > @"Mutisija.5017" said:

> > it seems that a whole lot of people agree that visible existence of lgbt people is politics. i guess from now on my political stance is im gay, and im going to vote for the im gay in next election.

>

> The pride flag is supposed to be a call for acceptance. Without that call to action, it would just be a rainbow flag with no meaning behind it. You may have confused that call to action with your sexuality. Your sexuality isn't political. The call for change is.

 

its not call for acceptance or any sort of action. its more of a sign that says "we exist". allowing people wear pride flags is just allowing them and their identity to exist visibly. gay people wearing rainbows is not "please accept us".