Pride Flag Capes

[Hyrai.8720]

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_social_movements#:~:text=Lesbian%2C%20gay%2C%20bisexual%2C%20and,of%20the%201960s%20and%201970s.

>"A commonly stated goal among these movements is social equality for LGBT people"

 

please tell me what's the difference between "we want social equality" and "please accept us".

[Quench.7091]

> @"Mutisija.5017" said:

> > @"Quench.7091" said:

> > > @"Mutisija.5017" said:

> > > it seems that a whole lot of people agree that visible existence of lgbt people is politics. i guess from now on my political stance is im gay, and im going to vote for the im gay in next election.

> >

> > The pride flag is supposed to be a call for acceptance. Without that call to action, it would just be a rainbow flag with no meaning behind it. You may have confused that call to action with your sexuality. Your sexuality isn't political. The call for change is.

>

> its not call for acceptance or any sort of action. its more of a sign that says "we exist". allowing people wear pride flags is just allowing them and their identity to exist visibly. gay people wearing rainbows is not "please accept us".

The rainbow is a good symbol, as the colors are all side by side even though they are different. People should be like that.

 

I remember watching TV and seeing politicians, both democrat and republican, stating that they wouldn't support changing the law to support gay marriage. They did not represent that rainbow. They only represented themselves and people like them.

 

I suppose that the flag lost it's meaning over time. Maybe it doesn't carry the same meaning that it once did?

[Solanum.6983]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

 

Care to elaborate? When in history were straight people discriminated against based on their sexuality?

If anything this thread is starting to prove exactly why an Item like this should be in the game. I see a lot of derogatory remarks about the LGBT community from Ignorant people like yourself all the time in game.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Solanum.6983" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

>

> Care to elaborate? When in history were straight people discriminated against based on their sexuality?

> If anything this thread is starting to prove exactly why an Item like this should be in the game. I see a lot of derogatory remarks about the LGBT community from Ignorant people like yourself all the time in game.

 

Thank you for assuming that you know me and calling me ignorant. Yes, there is reverse discrimination in the world. It just doesn't get the attention that LGBT discrimination gets from a pandering press. Straight people get verbally assaulted by non-straight people, too. The derogatory remarks don't always go one-way.

 

Regardless, my point really was to emphasize that if Anet wants to be all-inclusive then they should be ALL inclusive. It really had nothing to do with the accusation that you toss at me.

 

Also, this type of accusation is one of the reasons why discrimination is such a problem. You automatically assumed that I was anti because of your stance and rather than have any civil discourse about the topic, you immediately labeled me. This type of action doesn't help anyone, but hey... thanks.

 

Good luck with your request.

[Solanum.6983]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Solanum.6983" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

> >

> > Care to elaborate? When in history were straight people discriminated against based on their sexuality?

> > If anything this thread is starting to prove exactly why an Item like this should be in the game. I see a lot of derogatory remarks about the LGBT community from Ignorant people like yourself all the time in game.

>

> Thank you for assuming that you know me and calling me ignorant. Yes, there is reverse discrimination in the world. It just doesn't get the attention that LGBT discrimination gets from a pandering press. Straight people get verbally assaulted by non-straight people, too. The derogatory remarks don't always go one-way.

>

> Regardless, my point really was to emphasize that if Anet wants to be all-inclusive then they should be ALL inclusive. It really had nothing to do with the accusation that you toss at me.

>

> Also, this type of accusation is one of the reasons why discrimination is such a problem. You automatically assumed that I was anti because of your stance and rather than have any civil discourse about the topic, you immediately labeled me. This type of action doesn't help anyone, but hey... thanks.

>

> Good luck with your request.

 

Your statement about straight pride was ignorant, I'm sorry if it sounds blunt but it is.

By saying there should be a straight pride you minimize the history of discrimination, abuse, and murder of LGBT people on the basis of their sexuality. Everyday is straight pride, Straight people haven't had the need to stand up for their basic human rights because they've always had them. Pride isn't only for gay people, It's also for the allies, People who support the LGBT Community, That includes straight people.

[Quench.7091]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Solanum.6983" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

> >

> > Care to elaborate? When in history were straight people discriminated against based on their sexuality?

> > If anything this thread is starting to prove exactly why an Item like this should be in the game. I see a lot of derogatory remarks about the LGBT community from Ignorant people like yourself all the time in game.

>

> Thank you for assuming that you know me and calling me ignorant. Yes, there is reverse discrimination in the world. It just doesn't get the attention that LGBT discrimination gets from a pandering press. Straight people get verbally assaulted by non-straight people, too. The derogatory remarks don't always go one-way.

>

> Regardless, my point really was to emphasize that if Anet wants to be all-inclusive then they should be ALL inclusive. It really had nothing to do with the accusation that you toss at me.

>

> Also, this type of accusation is one of the reasons why discrimination is such a problem. You automatically assumed that I was anti because of your stance and rather than have any civil discourse about the topic, you immediately labeled me. This type of action doesn't help anyone, but hey... thanks.

>

> Good luck with your request.

 

Personally, I viewed your statement as just yanking their chain. A sort of "Do you want to get political? I can get political." A quick way to get to the point without needing to type much. You didn't need to state that straight people are the victims of discrimination. This isn't a race to the bottom. I do agree that it's an all or nothing thing, though. Either people should be prideful of their uncontrollable and unearned genetics or nobody should be, if it isn't a political thing and is actually a genetic representation thing.

 

The dye system is probably the best solution here if they want to add a striped cloak.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Solanum.6983" said:

> Your statement about straight pride was ignorant, I'm sorry if it sounds blunt but it is.

From your point of view, perhaps. I disagree.

 

> Straight people haven't had the need to stand up for their basic human rights because they've always had them.

Really? This is a very subjective statement in my view.

 

>Pride isn't only for gay people, It's also for the allies, People who support the LGBT Community, That includes straight people.

This is a topic for a completely different forum. Your experiences and mine in this matter are significantly different. I won't continue down this avenue here as it no longer relates to GW2.

 

 

[Quench.7091]

> @"Solanum.6983" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Solanum.6983" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > If implemented, does Anet then need to promote a straight pride cape?

> > >

> > > Care to elaborate? When in history were straight people discriminated against based on their sexuality?

> > > If anything this thread is starting to prove exactly why an Item like this should be in the game. I see a lot of derogatory remarks about the LGBT community from Ignorant people like yourself all the time in game.

> >

> > Thank you for assuming that you know me and calling me ignorant. Yes, there is reverse discrimination in the world. It just doesn't get the attention that LGBT discrimination gets from a pandering press. Straight people get verbally assaulted by non-straight people, too. The derogatory remarks don't always go one-way.

> >

> > Regardless, my point really was to emphasize that if Anet wants to be all-inclusive then they should be ALL inclusive. It really had nothing to do with the accusation that you toss at me.

> >

> > Also, this type of accusation is one of the reasons why discrimination is such a problem. You automatically assumed that I was anti because of your stance and rather than have any civil discourse about the topic, you immediately labeled me. This type of action doesn't help anyone, but hey... thanks.

> >

> > Good luck with your request.

>

> Your statement about straight pride was ignorant, I'm sorry if it sounds blunt but it is.

> By saying there should be a straight pride you minimize the history of discrimination, abuse, and murder of LGBT people on the basis of their sexuality. Everyday is straight pride, Straight people haven't had the need to stand up for their basic human rights because they've always had them. Pride isn't only for gay people, It's also for the allies, People who support the LGBT Community, That includes straight people.

 

The person you're talking to was asking for equal treatment. That was the goal. Don't lose sight of it or you might just lose it.

[Hyrai.8720]

the idea behind "asking for equal treatment" is good, but it's quickly misconcepted if stated in the wrong circumstances...

 

in other words: yes, white people, straight people and men are also often discriminated. but not nearly as much as black people, lgbtq's and women.

so sometimes its better to stand up for discriminated 'minorities' than just saying "equal rights for everyone".

 

however, the discussion that's coming up right now is perfect proof why we should not get a LGBTQ cape ingame. there will always be a group of people thinking "why do they get supported but i don't? i want a cape aswell!" and ANet will never come out of that loop.

 

[Zoid.2568]

No thank you, keep politics out of GW2.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

> @"Hyrai.8720" said:

> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_social_movements#:~:text=Lesbian%2C%20gay%2C%20bisexual%2C%20and,of%20the%201960s%20and%201970s.

> >"A commonly stated goal among these movements is social equality for LGBT people"

>

> please tell me what's the difference between "we want social equality" and "please accept us".

 

The problem is people say they want social equality when they really mean social equity. Equity is when an outside force tries to right historic wrongs by tipping the scales the other direction. Currently anet is promoting social equality by not promoting either stance, by having a gene roddenberry universe that has transended those issues.

 

[Hyrai.8720]

yeah you're right. that's a very common mistake i made myself there.

 


 

 

[Quench.7091]

> @"Hyrai.8720" said:

> the idea behind "asking for equal treatment" is good, but it's quickly misconcepted if stated in the wrong circumstances...

>

> in other words: yes, white people, straight people and men are also often discriminated. but not nearly as much as black people, lgbtq's and women.

> so sometimes its better to stand up for discriminated 'minorities' than just saying "equal rights for everyone".

>

> however, the discussion that's coming up right now is perfect proof why we should not get a LGBTQ cape ingame. there will always be a group of people thinking "why do they get supported but i don't? i want a cape aswell!" and ANet will never come out of that loop.

>

 

There's something that's beginning to show here. It's the difference between the mind of the collectivist and the individualist. Neither will be 100% fair. People will be given a collective advantage, because birds of a feather flock together, but at the same time it is wrong to blame the actions of one person for the action of another. The most moral action is to treat everybody as individuals and to treat people equally by default, but is that the most ethical thing to do if there is a genuine disparity among the groups?

 

RAVEN GUIDE US!

[sorudo.9054]

every part of the rainbow has their own flag so maybe use the colors of your own flag?

for instance, trans is blue>pink>white>pink>blue

[WilliamLey.8162]

I have noticed a shift in the meaning of the rainbow flag. When I was a kid, my lesbian mom taught me that it was an all inclusive flag for everyone, but now swears it’s the pride flag. Personally speaking, I am not one for icons or symbols but I do understand why people like them so much. I think the community created events are wonderful and they do fill me with a lot of hope for equality. Unfortunately I feel like just having a flag cape that could be dyed a certain way would bring a lot of attention, both positive and negative to the game for the sole reason of having that cape. I love the rainbow flag because to me it means inclusivity, and I personally believe that the game oozes inclusivity. There are gay characters, there is atleast one trans character to my knowledge. Characters with racist or hateful ideas are not the norm, and they are the ones looked at as being different. I feel like there is a healthy amount of pride so far, and to need a flag or any kind of pride tag would take away from this vibe.

That’s just me though, I am definitely a okay with a pride flag cape, might even wear one as an ally if I can work it into an outfit, but I try to support pride in ways other than looks and such

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > While I support LGBT, have friends and family who are themselves a part of it, and see nothing wrong with symbols of the movement, I disagree with bringing overtly political statements into the game. I just think there are a lot of good causes out there and if a good argument can be made for one, then it might be made for any of them. Is that really what we want? It's not what I want, whether I agree with those causes or not!

> >

> > On the other hand, a rainbow colored cape is not exactly a banner ad. As symbology goes, I'd say it's fairly ambiguous. Why, if I had the opportunity to go and get myself a rainbow-colored cape from some sort of achievement that possibly involved a side quest featuring some of GW2's LGBT characters (but please, not explicitly for that purpose!), I think I'd probably go do that! I mean, who couldn't find a use for a rainbow-colored cloak? Am I wrong?

>

> I mean I can be a literal furry in this game but showing that I'm gay is too much? The last Pride Parade in GW2 was hitting map caps and causing 3-4 instances of every zone in Central Tyria because thousands of players participated.

>

> Everything is politics on some level, anyway. For me if its not being gay, then its being a woman, or a PoC, etc.

 

Except everything isn't politics on some level. People have chosen to politicize everything, but that doesn't mean it's inherently political. If I agree with someone's policy positions while they're running for office, I'll vote for them, but it won't be because they're (insert whatever here) or not, including, but not limited to party affiliation. I'm not really very good at toeing party lines. I'm not going to rally against representation of anyone in a video game, within legal boundaries at any rate, but if we start having this or that represented, we're going to have to be inclusive, and represent everyone equally. That's going to cause more problems than it solves. Just for having the neutral position I have on this, you can bet I'm going to be flamed, and possibly edited or removed by a moderator.

[coso.9173]

just wanted to add that there's no real neutrality when there's a situation that involves abuse or discrimination. if you take the supposedly neutral side, you're already taking the side of the abuser.

 

[robertthebard.8150]

I have an alternative theory: I just don't care. I don't care if someone is LGBT, I don't care if they get a cape, or if they don't. I don't see not having the cape as some sort of abuse either. I did, however, accurately predict this response, thanks for demonstrating my point so clearly.

 

> @"coso.9173" said:

> just wanted to add that there's no real neutrality when there's a situation that involves abuse or discrimination. if you take the supposedly neutral side, you're already taking the side of the abuser.

>

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

@"robertthebard.8150" At least you weren't called "ignorant". /smh

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> @"robertthebard.8150" At least you weren't called "ignorant". /smh

 

True, I'd have reported the post, but the forum didn't allow it, protected class?

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" At least you weren't called "ignorant". /smh

>

> You legit asked for a straight pride cape so yeah you aren't the offended party here

 

Whatever.

EDIT: Yeah, actually I am offended but this is not the proper forum for that discussion.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" At least you weren't called "ignorant". /smh

>

> True, I'd have reported the post, but the forum didn't allow it, protected class?

 

Seems the report function is broken.

[coso.9173]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> I have an alternative theory: I just don't care. I don't care if someone is LGBT, I don't care if they get a cape, or if they don't. I don't see not having the cape as some sort of abuse either. I did, however, accurately predict this response, thanks for demonstrating my point so clearly.

>

> > @"coso.9173" said:

> > just wanted to add that there's no real neutrality when there's a situation that involves abuse or discrimination. if you take the supposedly neutral side, you're already taking the side of the abuser.

> >

>

>

 

I never said having or not having the cape was abuse. but some people said they should stay neutral in this topic, as a whole, that's why I said it. If there's racism or sexism or homophobia, and someone stays "neutral", then it's not really neutral, that was my point. not about the cape.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Wow, this thread survived this long? Judging by the replies on this thread "pride capes" will cause problems more so than adding value to a game that is already openly inclusive.

[Amy of Darkness.5248]

"What about straight pride" is bog standard whataboutism and concern trolling with far-right origins; a disingenuous statement intended to stir up and intentionally upset victimized people with a false equivalent argument. You said something deliberately incendiary and are acting like a victim when someone rightfully calls you on it. You were insulted? Then educate yourself on LGBTQA+ issues before you step into a topic like this again.