No stacking for WVW?

[Hoover.6394]

Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

Stacking is a dmg mitigation tactic, most skills have a target cap, most being 5-10 people for aoe skills, if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and reduces the chance of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once, this is why if you push into a choke solo, you will insta down, but if pushing with a zerg can often times take minimal dmg, though you should be double dodging through the bomb anyway.

 

There is also a tab for combat, which shows you in real time skills and dmg taken from them, if you leave this open while in combat, you can see what is hitting you. Now, there have been calls for a long time for a more PvP like display that gives much more details and summary of dmg taken and dealt, however that has fallen of deaf ears for years.

 

Next point is if you don't like the group play....don't. Go roaming where you can see your own skills and the impact you are having.

[Hoover.6394]

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> Stacking is a dmg mitigation tactic, most skills have a target cap, most being 5-10 people for aoe skills, if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and reduces the chance of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once, this is why if you push into a choke solo, you will insta down, but if pushing with a zerg can often times take minimal dmg, though you should be double dodging through the bomb anyway.

>

> There is also a tab for combat, which shows you in real time skills and dmg taken from them, if you leave this open while in combat, you can see what is hitting you. Now, there have been calls for a long time for a more PvP like display that gives much more details and summary of dmg taken and dealt, however that has fallen of deaf ears for years.

>

> Next point is if you don't like the group play....don't. Go roaming where you can see your own skills and the impact you are having.

 

I was thinking from a realistic feeling point, like in a battle ground, when two army clash, it’s more spread out and different small team doing their fight instead of 50 people stand in the same spot and tanking damage, I know game is not reality but the spread out kind of fight might feel more epic.

[enkidu.5937]

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and **reduces the chance** of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once

So, its russian roulette. Damage doesnt spread homogenously, so some of the 50 ppl will suffer huge damage spikes. The support in a 5-ppl-subgroup in e. g. 15 vs 15 guild fights sustains vs. incoming damage from up to 15 enemies. But support doent scale in a zerg, so you still have 5 ppl supporting each other vs. damage from up to 50 enemies. Adding the usual lack of FBs and Support-Scrappers / Tempest, and the lesser coordination compared to a guild, half the zerg usually explodes within less than a minute.

 

Additionally, meta offers almost no hard sustain, apart from dodges. Movement usually comes in slow motion, since its almost impossible to move a 50-ppl group synchronously, where some have superspeed and others have cripple. Positioning is also screwed in a 50-ppl stack since there is only one position: at the tag. You cant stay out of range, otherwise you wont make damage, and you dont have free-caster opportunities.

 

No adaptation in uneven fights (that happen a lot): If the enemy is superior, you get one-pushed easily. If you are superior, the enemy clouds you af.

 

--> Alltogether, everything that is important to win fights in WVW (small or big scale) is nullified by permanent stacking :D

 

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> if you push into a choke

This, and compensating lags. I cant find another advantage to be honest ^^

 

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> I was thinking from a realistic feeling point, like in a battle ground, when two army clash, it’s more spread out and different small team doing their fight instead of 50 people stand in the same spot and tanking damage, I know game is not reality but the spread out kind of fight might feel more epic.

Totally agree. Not only the spreading out would feel more epic, also an epic fight should usually last longer than a minute, especially when you spend 15 minutes running around the map until such a fight pops up.

 

[Sovereign.1093]

Dont add reality in a fantasy game. Reality kills the fun. Have gw2 physics not real life <3.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

The problem with this is that it requires much more intensive client-server communication.

Easy enough to manage for 5 or even 10 players. Much harder to manage for 50x2

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

 

If you dislike stacking you can also choose to play a class that is less prone to stacking. For example, I would assume that staff Elementalists are still pretty useful and let into squads but there are quite alot of situations where you do better playing one off the tag.

[shiri.4257]

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > Stacking is a dmg mitigation tactic, most skills have a target cap, most being 5-10 people for aoe skills, if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and reduces the chance of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once, this is why if you push into a choke solo, you will insta down, but if pushing with a zerg can often times take minimal dmg, though you should be double dodging through the bomb anyway.

> >

> > There is also a tab for combat, which shows you in real time skills and dmg taken from them, if you leave this open while in combat, you can see what is hitting you. Now, there have been calls for a long time for a more PvP like display that gives much more details and summary of dmg taken and dealt, however that has fallen of deaf ears for years.

> >

> > Next point is if you don't like the group play....don't. Go roaming where you can see your own skills and the impact you are having.

>

> I was thinking from a realistic feeling point, like in a battle ground, when two army clash, it’s more spread out and different small team doing their fight instead of 50 people stand in the same spot and tanking damage, I know game is not reality but the spread out kind of fight might feel more epic.

 

You must be watching anime armies. when two armies clash on normandy beaches there's a zerg stacking on the beachhead and getting blown up by aoe. there was also the shield walls, phalanx, and various formations of stacking armies tightly together.

[Hoover.6394]

> @"shiri.4257" said:

> > @"Hoover.6394" said:

> > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > > Stacking is a dmg mitigation tactic, most skills have a target cap, most being 5-10 people for aoe skills, if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and reduces the chance of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once, this is why if you push into a choke solo, you will insta down, but if pushing with a zerg can often times take minimal dmg, though you should be double dodging through the bomb anyway.

> > >

> > > There is also a tab for combat, which shows you in real time skills and dmg taken from them, if you leave this open while in combat, you can see what is hitting you. Now, there have been calls for a long time for a more PvP like display that gives much more details and summary of dmg taken and dealt, however that has fallen of deaf ears for years.

> > >

> > > Next point is if you don't like the group play....don't. Go roaming where you can see your own skills and the impact you are having.

> >

> > I was thinking from a realistic feeling point, like in a battle ground, when two army clash, it’s more spread out and different small team doing their fight instead of 50 people stand in the same spot and tanking damage, I know game is not reality but the spread out kind of fight might feel more epic.

>

> You must be watching anime armies. when two armies clash on normandy beaches there's a zerg stacking on the beachhead and getting blown up by aoe. there was also the shield walls, phalanx, and various formations of stacking armies tightly together.

 

maybe they did have one of those, but most battle looks like this:


 

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

 

Honestly, seeing and understanding what you are fighting and what killed you is something that comes with much more experience than a few months. There already are team strategies. You just haven't learned them yet.

[Lady Sapphirah.6234]

Yea its how wvw goes. If the groups/zergs on ur server are doing this it means theyre coordinated and and know what theyre doing. Lucky you.

[Fish.2769]

Stacking is also an essential part of the "team-play" due to how the fight mechanics/system works - as well as damage mitigation, you have also have boons/buffs that are AoE and only affect up to usually 600 range so if you're outside that range, you might as well be playing a build that's fit for personal perseverance (Aka a roaming build) rather than for group play (Support classes/builds).

 

The other issue is that GW2 was designed to NOT have a Holy Trinity system but then that system has actually been designed in over the years and expansions to the point where the game now has one. Yes, classes had a more specific role even back then even in Vanilla, however it was a lot more forgiving with what/how you COULD play, not what/how you NEED to play.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Hoover.6394" said:

> > Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

>

> Honestly, seeing and understanding what you are fighting and what killed you is something that comes with much more experience than a few months. There already are team strategies. You just haven't learned them yet.

 

No, he's saying the game should _really_ have collision detection and full fledged AoE because blobbing is a silly looking, unrealistic, performance inhibiting practice.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Can I push my teammates off cliffs?

 

Ok.

 

Actually I just want to see a zerg push each other off because there's no space.

[Dayra.7405]

Collision dection in an MMO is simply unrealistic.

It will just complement the skill-laag with a movement laag (you cannot move, till the server verified and confirmed that you do not collide with anyone.).

[XenesisII.1540]

Warhammer online had collision detection, and it had fun fights with front lines, but it's combat was built around it, gw2 was not.

[Hoover.6394]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> Can I push my teammates off cliffs?

>

> Ok.

>

> Actually I just want to see a zerg push each other off because there's no space.

 

U shouldn’t be able to push people around, instead u just can’t step on to them

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > if you stack 50 people on each other, that spreads out dmg and **reduces the chance** of one person getting hit with all the dmg skills at once

> So, its russian roulette. Damage doesnt spread homogenously, so some of the 50 ppl will suffer huge damage spikes.

 

This isn’t exactly right. Yes it’s russian roulette, but It does tend to spread homogeneously, because you are less likely to be the target of another enemy spell, because you’ve got 50 other players in close proximity to you.

 

Targets are based on proximity priority, and mathematically (statistically) speaking, as the number of players converges to a single point, the chance that 2 spells in a row will target you are proportional to the inverse square of that distance between you and the distances of the other 50 players (and the location at which the spell was cast)

 

 

>The support in a 5-ppl-subgroup in e. g. 15 vs 15 guild fights sustains vs. incoming damage from up to 15 enemies. But support doent scale in a zerg, so you still have 5 ppl supporting each other vs. damage from up to 50 enemies. Adding the usual lack of FBs and Support-Scrappers / Tempest, and the lesser coordination compared to a guild, half the zerg usually explodes within less than a minute.

 

This also isn’t correct, damage and healing both follow the same rules in terms of scaling and target cap...which is proximity priority. The reason is seems that damage and healing don’t seem the same, is because people tend to form subgroups for their supports, which actually alters the statistical nature of spreading your healing to other allies via proximity (always forcing your heal on your proximity of your subgroup rather than your entire squad) . This is one reason why subgroups can actually be detrimental for certain healers, like tempests, who benefit more from healing allies via squad proximity rather than party proximity.

 

> Totally agree. Not only the spreading out would feel more epic, also an epic fight should usually last longer than a minute, especially when you spend 15 minutes running around the map until such a fight pops up.

 

Personally, I enjoy highly organized GvG’s. I’ve probably played in at least a thousand GVG fights by now. Some fights are good, and last very long and push your performance to the absolute limit. I had a 3 way GVG fight that Legit lasted 3 hours...non stop.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > @"Hoover.6394" said:

> > > Started playing WvW tho year so far having fun with it, thing I don’t like is the team stacks super tight and run into the other team, as a player u don’t get a sense of what u fighting and what killed you, feel like for WVW, the game should try not let characters stacking on each other, kinda like the Social distancing mechanics in high level fractals, so during team fight, there can be better spread out team strategies, instead of pray and spray style.

> >

> > Honestly, seeing and understanding what you are fighting and what killed you is something that comes with much more experience than a few months. There already are team strategies. You just haven't learned them yet.

>

> No, he's saying the game should _really_ have collision detection and full fledged AoE because blobbing is a silly looking, unrealistic, performance inhibiting practice.

 

No, he _really_ said the game should have collision detection because with blobbing you don't get a sense of what you are fighting and what killed you. Nothing about how silly, unrealistic, or performance inhibiting it is.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> Collision dection in an MMO is simply unrealistic.

> It will just complement the skill-laag with a movement laag (you cannot move, till the server verified and confirmed that you do not collide with anyone.).

 

Or you can move but you get teleported back to the location the server last saw you at (not exactly the same as other people seeing you rubber-banding). Or you can stand some distance away, but still take damage from skills because the server thinks you didn't move. I've seen that in another game that had collision detection.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

 

> Nothing about how silly, unrealistic, or performance inhibiting it is.

 

Don't tell me how to speak for him!

 

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> Collision dection in an MMO is simply unrealistic.

> It will just complement the skill-laag with a movement laag (you cannot move, till the server verified and confirmed that you do not collide with anyone.).

 

Worked out just fine in WAR.

Helped provide an AoE cap all on it's own just from people not being able to pack in.

 

[Kylden Ar.3724]

I love games with collision detection in their PvP. Means a tanky class trying to hold a choke can _actually hold the choke until killed._

[Hoover.6394]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

>

> > Nothing about how silly, unrealistic, or performance inhibiting it is.

>

> Don't tell me how to speak for him!

>

> > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > Collision dection in an MMO is simply unrealistic.

> > It will just complement the skill-laag with a movement laag (you cannot move, till the server verified and confirmed that you do not collide with anyone.).

>

> Worked out just fine in WAR.

> Helped provide an AoE cap all on it's own just from people not being able to pack in.

>

 

Yeah, don’t tell him how to speak for me!

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Hoover.6394" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> >

> > > Nothing about how silly, unrealistic, or performance inhibiting it is.

> >

> > Don't tell me how to speak for him!

> >

> > > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > Collision dection in an MMO is simply unrealistic.

> > > It will just complement the skill-laag with a movement laag (you cannot move, till the server verified and confirmed that you do not collide with anyone.).

> >

> > Worked out just fine in WAR.

> > Helped provide an AoE cap all on it's own just from people not being able to pack in.

> >

>

> Yeah, don’t tell him how to speak for me!

 

Don't tell me how to respond!

[LetoII.3782]

YOU'RE NOT MY _REAL_ DAD