Conditiion Rework for pvp questionmark

[Ghostof Luzifer.6159]

Well although that probably will never happen since anet doesnt develop their interessting gamemodes... (a little salt as intro)

what do you guys think of reworking conditions. Imo they are a somewhat boring playstyle one reason being that there isnt a big difference to the powerplaystyle.

One idea (not fully fleshed out) that I had was anet could remove the condition damage stat and replace it by something like condition effectiveness. It would affect each condition in their own way. For example poison would get its healing reduction inceased not th damage, cripple its movement reduction, and maybe the damaging conditions like burning, torment, confusion would get a buff to damage + a reduction in duration in order to avoid op specs. That wwould make maybe debufffer specs possible + condi specs would invest into condition duration a lot more if they want to do damage

 

I think balancing condition specs around a system similar to this would make condition gameplay more unique and fun than it is now. Oviously alot more thought would need to be put into the actual system, (which I havent done at all) , but i think it could maybe work.

[Dadnir.5038]

The main issue with conditions is that some are tied to your AA. Conditions simply need to be tied to skills that have a CD.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> The main issue with conditions is that some are tied to your AA. Conditions simply need to be tied to skills that have a CD.

 

So power auto attacks should also do no damage in that sense.

[Jekkt.6045]

> @"Ghostof Luzifer.6159" said:

> Well although that probably will never happen since anet doesnt develop their interessting gamemodes... (a little salt as intro)

> what do you guys think of reworking conditions. Imo they are a somewhat boring playstyle one reason being that there isnt a big difference to the powerplaystyle.

> One idea (not fully fleshed out) that I had was anet could remove the condition damage stat and replace it by something like condition effectiveness. It would affect each condition in their own way. For example poison would get its healing reduction inceased not th damage, cripple its movement reduction, and maybe the damaging conditions like burning, torment, confusion would get a buff to damage + a reduction in duration in order to avoid op specs. That wwould make maybe debufffer specs possible + condi specs would invest into condition duration a lot more if they want to do damage

>

> I think balancing condition specs around a system similar to this would make condition gameplay more unique and fun than it is now. Oviously alot more thought would need to be put into the actual system, (which I havent done at all) , but i think it could maybe work.

 

the problem with conditions is the stacking. before they stacked conditions worked the way they were intended to work, as damage over time. nowadays you can burst people with 10 burn or 10+ poison stacks which is just completely besides the point of what condition damage should be.

 

now for your idea, this would never work because it's just not transparent enough. how would you be supposed to know if the poison on you reduced your healing by 33% or for an increased amount. let's say the baseline is 33% and the maximum is 66%, how do i know that it's 33, 66 or something in between? stuff like that works as special traits for elite specs, not for stats.

[lare.5129]

I am sure we should asl BOOST condition damage in pve. Make more different pve power and pve style.

[Taril.8619]

The issue with Conditions, is that they're functionally working like Power attacks.

 

It's not really "Damage over time" when you press 1-2 buttons and your target now has 20 Torment stacks, 15 Bleed stacks and 5 Burning stacks.

 

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean stacking is a bad thing, because it allows multiple Condi builds to work together as well as incidental condi's from Power weapons that randomly apply bleeds or poisons or burns not screwing over a condi build.

 

Really if they simply tuned down Condi Damage and put that towards Condi Duration so that the Condi's do the same damage, but over a longer period of time, that would ease their burstiness.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> The issue with Conditions, is that they're functionally working like Power attacks.

>

> It's not really "Damage over time" when you press 1-2 buttons and your target now has 20 Torment stacks, 15 Bleed stacks and 5 Burning stacks.

>

> Now, this doesn't necessarily mean stacking is a bad thing, because it allows multiple Condi builds to work together as well as incidental condi's from Power weapons that randomly apply bleeds or poisons or burns not screwing over a condi build.

>

> Really if they simply tuned down Condi Damage and put that towards Condi Duration so that the Condi's do the same damage, but over a longer period of time, that would ease their burstiness.

 

name me 1-2 buttons that applies such stacks.

to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

if you eat grenade barrage + holo leap + precasted corona you get nuked from orbit too.

[Curennos.9307]

I could def go for increasing condi durations, as long as condi builds are given the survivability they need to live long enough to kill their opponent that way. Also, it would help if anet looked at how condis are applied - some condi builds have very wonky, er...power allocations, I suppose, from skill to skill? Compare necro scepter AA to d/d AA vs warr longbow AA - it seems like anet still struggle to make weapons that are fully usable as condi weapons. If certain AAs for condi builds had more value, it would probs justify shifting the build's power around as well (d/d thief is basically #3 and little else - it has an effectively dead skill, hs, and its AA only applies 2 stacks of poison on the third part of chain).

 

Then add some customizability to GW2's UI - your suggestion about 'condition effectiveness is interesting, but it'd never work with how awful the UI currently is for getting needed information.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> Really if they simply tuned down Condi Damage and put that towards Condi Duration so that the Condi's do the same damage, but over a longer period of time, that would ease their burstiness.

 

They have done this already, twice if you include the megabalance. Its evident when you see people posting them taking 2~6x their max hp in conditions in an effort to say condi is op when it prove the contrary. There is also the point of people being bad at dealing with the delayed response conditions have.

 

[Taril.8619]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

 

But the thing is, Condition builds shouldn't be about smoking someone in one shot. Especially since many of them scale off of just 1 offensive stat (Condition Damage) and bypass Toughness and Protection while Condi Damage reduction is a lot less available since the answer to Condi's is supposed to be cleansing but that doesn't matter if you're blown up by huge stacks of Condi's.

 

As far as stacking Condi's goes:

 

A Rev shifting into Mallyx popping Searing Fissure/Echoing Darkness/Embrace the Darkness can apply 10-12 stacks of Torment and 8-10 stacks of Burning while ticking extra Torment from autos and elite.

 

Scourge going into Shroud and dropping Grasping Dead/Harrowing Wave/Scepter 3 can apply ~10 stacks of Bleed, ~10 stacks of Torment and 3 stacks of Burning. While converting 3 boons into Condi's too.

 

Thief using Sneak Attack/Steal/Shadowstrike/Repeater can apply 10 stacks of Bleed, ~8 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Confusion.

 

Which, while not matching up to my obvious hyperbole, is still a large number of condi's applied in a small number of skills, and result in large amounts of burst damage.

 

The issue isn't so much that this number of skills kills someone, but the fact that Condi's have limited sources of damage reduction because they're supposed to deal damage over time and thus be susceptible to cleanses. The potential burst that Condi's can put out with skills that can drop literally 4-6 Condi's on someone at a time is pretty high, which seems at odds with their inherent design.

 

It also allows for a lot sturdier builds because you can use Carrion/Sage/Rabid stats and lose little to no damage since really all you need is Condi Damage and you're golden (While Power builds work from Power, Precision and Ferocity meaning it's Berserker or lose a fair chunk of damage) - Which makes sense if the builds are supposed to survive a bit longer for their damage over time to do its think, less so if you're still doing the same as a glass cannon power build and trying to nuke someone in a couple of seconds.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

>

> But the thing is, Condition builds shouldn't be about smoking someone in one shot. Especially since many of them scale off of just 1 offensive stat (Condition Damage) and bypass Toughness and Protection while Condi Damage reduction is a lot less available since the answer to Condi's is supposed to be cleansing but that doesn't matter if you're blown up by huge stacks of Condi's.

>

> As far as stacking Condi's goes:

>

> A Rev shifting into Mallyx popping Searing Fissure/Echoing Darkness/Embrace the Darkness can apply 10-12 stacks of Torment and 8-10 stacks of Burning while ticking extra Torment from autos and elite.

>

> Scourge going into Shroud and dropping Grasping Dead/Harrowing Wave/Scepter 3 can apply ~10 stacks of Bleed, ~10 stacks of Torment and 3 stacks of Burning. While converting 3 boons into Condi's too.

>

> Thief using Sneak Attack/Steal/Shadowstrike/Repeater can apply 10 stacks of Bleed, ~8 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Confusion.

>

> Which, while not matching up to my obvious hyperbole, is still a large number of condi's applied in a small number of skills, and result in large amounts of burst damage.

>

> The issue isn't so much that this number of skills kills someone, but the fact that Condi's have limited sources of damage reduction because they're supposed to deal damage over time and thus be susceptible to cleanses. The potential burst that Condi's can put out with skills that can drop literally 4-6 Condi's on someone at a time is pretty high, which seems at odds with their inherent design.

>

> It also allows for a lot sturdier builds because you can use Carrion/Sage/Rabid stats and lose little to no damage since really all you need is Condi Damage and you're golden (While Power builds work from Power, Precision and Ferocity meaning it's Berserker or lose a fair chunk of damage) - Which makes sense if the builds are supposed to survive a bit longer for their damage over time to do its think, less so if you're still doing the same as a glass cannon power build and trying to nuke someone in a couple of seconds.

>

>

 

you miss the point.

when holo lands that combo you are dead. its over, you made a mistake and thats it.

if you eat that condi you can cleanse, heal or go invulnerable.

fighting conditions is an active process, you dont take -% dmg to condi and are fine, you HAVE to constantly think about them, thats why people hate them, since they cant be bothered to think.

Sometimes you have to wait out 0,5-1s before cleansing to go through cover, sometimes you have to let yourself get hit to put the condi on top. People CAN NOT do it.

Thats why they die, and thats why they hate on condi.

In rev example I would eat those 12 stacks of torment, and I would use 1 shatter to remove them all like it never happened.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

>

> But the thing is, Condition builds shouldn't be about smoking someone in one shot. Especially since many of them scale off of just 1 offensive stat (Condition Damage) and bypass Toughness and Protection while Condi Damage reduction is a lot less available since the answer to Condi's is supposed to be cleansing but that doesn't matter if you're blown up by huge stacks of Condi's.

>

> As far as stacking Condi's goes:

>

> A Rev shifting into Mallyx popping Searing Fissure/Echoing Darkness/Embrace the Darkness can apply 10-12 stacks of Torment and 8-10 stacks of Burning while ticking extra Torment from autos and elite.

>

> Scourge going into Shroud and dropping Grasping Dead/Harrowing Wave/Scepter 3 can apply ~10 stacks of Bleed, ~10 stacks of Torment and 3 stacks of Burning. While converting 3 boons into Condi's too.

>

> Thief using Sneak Attack/Steal/Shadowstrike/Repeater can apply 10 stacks of Bleed, ~8 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Confusion.

>

> Which, while not matching up to my obvious hyperbole, is still a large number of condi's applied in a small number of skills, and result in large amounts of burst damage.

>

> The issue isn't so much that this number of skills kills someone, but the fact that Condi's have limited sources of damage reduction because they're supposed to deal damage over time and thus be susceptible to cleanses. The potential burst that Condi's can put out with skills that can drop literally 4-6 Condi's on someone at a time is pretty high, which seems at odds with their inherent design.

>

> It also allows for a lot sturdier builds because you can use Carrion/Sage/Rabid stats and lose little to no damage since really all you need is Condi Damage and you're golden (While Power builds work from Power, Precision and Ferocity meaning it's Berserker or lose a fair chunk of damage) - Which makes sense if the builds are supposed to survive a bit longer for their damage over time to do its think, less so if you're still doing the same as a glass cannon power build and trying to nuke someone in a couple of seconds.

>

>

 

Shroud: 7 pulses, 6 second duration

Grasping Dead: 0.75 sec cast time

Harrowing Wave: 0.5 sec cast time

Feast of Corr (scepter3): 0.75 cast time

 

Searing Fissure: 4 pulses, 3 sec duration, 0.75 cast time

Echoing Eruption: 0.75 cast time (massive tell too lmao, this should never hit you)

Embrace the Darkness: 1 torment, 2 extra torment for skill use ticks, 1 sec interval

 

Pistol/dagger sneak attack: 1 sec cast

Shadowstrike: instant

Repeater: 1.25 sec cast

Steal: instant, this is where the 6 sec confusion comes from, takes GM trait

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Curunen.8729"

shadow strike has slight cast time, on top of TP taking some time.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Curunen.8729"

> shadow strike has slight cast time, on top of TP taking some time.

 

Yeah. I listed it as instant tho just cuz it's (usually) not reactable as long as the thief has decent aim. It's intended to show the amount of ramp-up time the listed combos have and opportunities to mitigate the damage without cleanse.

[Renny.6571]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

>

> But the thing is, Condition builds shouldn't be about smoking someone in one shot. Especially since many of them scale off of just 1 offensive stat (Condition Damage) and bypass Toughness and Protection while Condi Damage reduction is a lot less available since the answer to Condi's is supposed to be cleansing but that doesn't matter if you're blown up by huge stacks of Condi's.

>

> As far as stacking Condi's goes:

>

> A Rev shifting into Mallyx popping Searing Fissure/Echoing Darkness/Embrace the Darkness can apply 10-12 stacks of Torment and 8-10 stacks of Burning while ticking extra Torment from autos and elite.

>

> Scourge going into Shroud and dropping Grasping Dead/Harrowing Wave/Scepter 3 can apply ~10 stacks of Bleed, ~10 stacks of Torment and 3 stacks of Burning. While converting 3 boons into Condi's too.

>

> Thief using Sneak Attack/Steal/Shadowstrike/Repeater can apply 10 stacks of Bleed, ~8 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Confusion.

>

> Which, while not matching up to my obvious hyperbole, is still a large number of condi's applied in a small number of skills, and result in large amounts of burst damage.

>

> The issue isn't so much that this number of skills kills someone, but the fact that Condi's have limited sources of damage reduction because they're supposed to deal damage over time and thus be susceptible to cleanses. The potential burst that Condi's can put out with skills that can drop literally 4-6 Condi's on someone at a time is pretty high, which seems at odds with their inherent design.

>

> It also allows for a lot sturdier builds because you can use Carrion/Sage/Rabid stats and lose little to no damage since really all you need is Condi Damage and you're golden (While Power builds work from Power, Precision and Ferocity meaning it's Berserker or lose a fair chunk of damage) - Which makes sense if the builds are supposed to survive a bit longer for their damage over time to do its think, less so if you're still doing the same as a glass cannon power build and trying to nuke someone in a couple of seconds.

>

>

 

Excellent post. Highlights the main points of condi vs power damage.

- condi scales off 1 stat vs power 3 stat.

- power dmg reduction from toughness, prot and weakness vs condi cleanse.

- Consistent and rapid application of condis.

 

I would also argue that other defensive mechanics such as blocks and blinds hsve a much greater effect on mitigating power damage.

 

[Curennos.9307]

Highly recommend people look at condi dmg trait lines- you'll be mind blown to see that there are a bunch of condi-on-crit traits and that 'expertise' exists.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Curunen.8729"

> shadow strike has slight cast time, on top of TP taking some time.

 

It wasn't me. :)

[saerni.2584]

> @"Renny.6571" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > to actually get this kind of condis you gotta eat like 5+ different skills, similar combo from power builds 1shot you.

> >

> > But the thing is, Condition builds shouldn't be about smoking someone in one shot. Especially since many of them scale off of just 1 offensive stat (Condition Damage) and bypass Toughness and Protection while Condi Damage reduction is a lot less available since the answer to Condi's is supposed to be cleansing but that doesn't matter if you're blown up by huge stacks of Condi's.

> >

> > As far as stacking Condi's goes:

> >

> > A Rev shifting into Mallyx popping Searing Fissure/Echoing Darkness/Embrace the Darkness can apply 10-12 stacks of Torment and 8-10 stacks of Burning while ticking extra Torment from autos and elite.

> >

> > Scourge going into Shroud and dropping Grasping Dead/Harrowing Wave/Scepter 3 can apply ~10 stacks of Bleed, ~10 stacks of Torment and 3 stacks of Burning. While converting 3 boons into Condi's too.

> >

> > Thief using Sneak Attack/Steal/Shadowstrike/Repeater can apply 10 stacks of Bleed, ~8 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Confusion.

> >

> > Which, while not matching up to my obvious hyperbole, is still a large number of condi's applied in a small number of skills, and result in large amounts of burst damage.

> >

> > The issue isn't so much that this number of skills kills someone, but the fact that Condi's have limited sources of damage reduction because they're supposed to deal damage over time and thus be susceptible to cleanses. The potential burst that Condi's can put out with skills that can drop literally 4-6 Condi's on someone at a time is pretty high, which seems at odds with their inherent design.

> >

> > It also allows for a lot sturdier builds because you can use Carrion/Sage/Rabid stats and lose little to no damage since really all you need is Condi Damage and you're golden (While Power builds work from Power, Precision and Ferocity meaning it's Berserker or lose a fair chunk of damage) - Which makes sense if the builds are supposed to survive a bit longer for their damage over time to do its think, less so if you're still doing the same as a glass cannon power build and trying to nuke someone in a couple of seconds.

> >

> >

>

> Excellent post. Highlights the main points of condi vs power damage.

> - condi scales off 1 stat vs power 3 stat.

> - power dmg reduction from toughness, prot and weakness vs condi cleanse.

> - Consistent and rapid application of condis.

>

> I would also argue that other defensive mechanics such as blocks and blinds hsve a much greater effect on mitigating power damage.

>

 

Toughness vs cleanse (unique mitigation to damage types). Resistance vs Protection/Weakness (boons and conditions that reduce power damage). Blocks and blinds stop attacks that do condi application just the same as with power.

 

You’d also be more convincing if you didn’t just repeat the misleading statement that conditions scale off one stat versus three. The comparison would be fair if a full zerk build did equal damage to a full dire build. It doesn’t in the slightest. In PvP, the stats are all either power or hybrid so it’s not really like “Condi” builds are pure condi in their damage.

 

Here’s the truth. Condition builds (as a whole) can either be burst or sustained output based. Burst condi application is about abilities that stack up large amounts of condi quickly. The idea is to build up the stacks quickly and prevent the target from using cleanse via cc. Sustained condi application, alternatively, has the character of “constant” application of condi. You conflate the two by assuming the application is both constantly and rapid (always bursting). But this is not what’s happening.

 

If you take a lot of condi all at once then the counter play is to burst cleanse and watch for the tells to counter what you can going forward.

 

If you are taking condi over time the counter play is to burst them down before they out sustain you while bleeding you out.

[aelska.4609]

Quite hard and sensitive topic. I feel like condition damage lost their consistency over the time. If I remember properly, the original paradigm was clearly damage over time, with bleeding (hitting like a mosquito) stacking in intensity and burning (hitting like a truck) stacking in duration. Fighting a condi build was, for most of the builds, consisting in managing the cleanse to "slowly get killed but not too fast".

 

This initial consistency has clearly been fading away with time. Conditions are now only stacking in intensity and not in duration, for all of them. As they now have the same mechanic, burning/bleeding/tourment can almost be seen as the same conditions with different damage coefficients. And then we have the never-addressed by-product of this update: a "hitting-like-a-truck" condition stackable in intensity, which opens the door to "condiburst". The powercreep (with a large meaning, more cleanses and more condis) brought by the expansions just exacerbated this paradigm shift by making the game faster. Condis are removed and applied so frequently that "condition duration" is no longer a thing, **Conditions are now very similar to power** in their application.

 

Call me old school but I really think the initial damaging condition design was a better one. The paradigm I have in mind is similar to this:

 

**Damaging conditions should be different by their mechanics:**

 

1. Burning should hit like a truck but only stack in duration.

2. Bleeding should be fast stacking condition, weak by itself but stronk together.

3. Torment should _only_ punish moving players. Non-moving players should barely be affected by this condition.

4. Confusion should _only_ punish player activating skills. Inactive players should barely be affected by this condition.

5. Poison should _only_ punish players getting healed, and only stack in duration. That means no damage, but -33% heal effectiveness.

 

That would already bring back more counters to these conditions and remove the "condiburst" that we know nowadays, as it mainly originates from burning, torment and confusion. It gives more soul to conditions, and definitely leads to more interesting ways of playing them (your ennemy is trying to escape ? Put torment. Your ennemy is preparing a super combo involving 5 different skills ? Put confusion. Etc.).

 

**Condition duration should be a thing:**

 

Which offers the "strong ticking conditions" vs "longer ticking conditions". This is only possible _if_ the number of cleanses and conditions applications are reduced.

 

That's clearly a very different paradigm than what we have today, but I think it offers more interesting counter-gameplay than "if condi stack > 5 -> cleanse" from defender side, and "if condi skill available -> use it" from attacker side.

 

I am not speaking about the soft conditions as they are quite fine as they are. Maybe because they never got touched since the release of the game. My only change suggestion would be: "remove mobility penalty on chill (cripple already does that), replace the random Glance on weakness by a flat damage reduction (cant be bothered with RNG in pvp)"

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"aelska.4609" said:

> 1. Burning should hit like a truck but only stack in duration.

This isn't a good idea for a few reasons and there is a reason it was changed from exactly this behaviour in the past.

 

>2.Bleeding should be fast stacking condition, weak by itself but stronk together.

I don't see how this isn't already the case. It does next to nothing on its own but the classes that stack it can stack it very quickly when they want to. If you're talking about exponential scaling then that has its own issues all together.

 

>4. Confusion should only punish player activating skills. Inactive players should barely be affected by this condition.

This already is the case unless you somehow count the 10 ticking damage per stack as something beyond negligible.

[aelska.4609]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"aelska.4609" said:

> > 1. Burning should hit like a truck but only stack in duration.

> This isn't a good idea for a few reasons and there is a reason it was changed from exactly this behaviour in the past.

>

> >2.Bleeding should be fast stacking condition, weak by itself but stronk together.

> I don't see how this isn't already the case. It does next to nothing on its own but the classes that stack it can stack it very quickly when they want to. If you're talking about exponential scaling then that has its own issues all together.

>

> >4. Confusion should only punish player activating skills. Inactive players should barely be affected by this condition.

> This already is the case unless you somehow count the 10 ticking damage per stack as something beyond negligible.

 

The goal of the previous post is to set boundaries/rules to conditions, so that it has a consistency on its own. Some of these rules are already applied (like bleeding/confusion) which is not totally surprising, as these rules are very close to the initial conditions paradigm of the game.

 

Anet did changed burning in the past, but I do believe it was more to prepare the condition to the powercreep brought by HoT rather than a non-functional aspect of any kind. Why are my suggested changes not a good idea ?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"aelska.4609" said:

Anet did changed burning in the past, but I do believe it was more to prepare the condition to the powercreep brought by HoT rather than a non-functional aspect of any kind. Why are my suggested changes not a good idea ?

 

It was changed for non-functionality because being locked out of doing something because of other players isn't great. Imagine not being able to damage someone because someone else is damaging them? Thats exactly how it was. For instance if you wanted to play a condi build focused on burning being in a team with a guard or ele would make your choice substandard /invalidated for having to queue behind their innate applications of the condition. You can't go "well strongest first" for the same reason. Its the very same reason deathly chill got changed to stack bleeds and all the other conditions that did damage were changed to stack in intensity.

 

Also the damage would always have to be impactful. Currently you need about 3 stacks of burn to do the same as before. This can lead to a bunch of issues.

 

Then you also cant say well it would stack in intensity per players but duration inside that for the reason above.

 

Burning as it is may need some tuning either to the condition itself or the builds that apply it but the way the system is for it I don't think is an issue. It also lets you have some really impactful, and strong skills for a condition thats been denoted as a burst condition. The other being confusion.

 

 

[aelska.4609]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"aelska.4609" said:

> Anet did changed burning in the past, but I do believe it was more to prepare the condition to the powercreep brought by HoT rather than a non-functional aspect of any kind. Why are my suggested changes not a good idea ?

>

> It was changed for non-functionality because being locked out of doing something because of other players isn't great. Imagine not being able to damage someone because someone else is damaging them? Thats exactly how it was. For instance if you wanted to play a condi build focused on burning being in a team with a guard or ele would make your choice substandard /invalidated for having to queue behind their innate applications of the condition. You can't go "well strongest first" for the same reason. Its the very same reason deathly chill got changed to stack bleeds and all the other conditions that did damage were changed to stack in intensity.

>

> Also the damage would always have to be impactful. Currently you need about 3 stacks of burn to do the same as before. This can lead to a bunch of issues.

>

> Then you also cant say well it would stack in intensity per players but duration inside that for the reason above.

>

> Burning as it is may need some tuning either to the condition itself or the builds that apply it but the way the system is for it I don't think is an issue. It also lets you have some really impactful, and strong skills for a condition thats been denoted as a burst condition. The other being confusion.

>

>

 

Thank you, I had indeed forgotten this "teamfight" part of the problem, and now I do remember it was a flaw of burning in the past. You guessed right what I was going to say: stack in intensity per players, each player stacking individually in duration. So if player A apply 5 s and burning ticking 500 and player B apply 8s ticking 300, the damage over time is 500+300 for the first 5s, then 300for the next 3s. I think that solves that issue, of course the damage of the conditions are to be balanced.

 

> Burning as it is may need some tuning either to the condition itself or the builds that apply it but the way the system is for it I don't think is an issue. It also lets you have some really impactful, and strong skills for a condition thats been denoted as a burst condition. The other being confusion.

 

Yup, that is what current paradigm is and what the previous one was not allowing. Each leads to a gameplay totally different and we will probably never convince each other which one is the most fun/interesting. I will still take my chance to change your mind ... Wololo ?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"aelska.4609" said:

>I will still take my chance to change your mind ... Wololo ?

 

Nice try but an army of priests wont get me on this one lol.

 

 

[Broady.2358]

One reason I do not like facing condition spam is because how easy it is to re-apply the conditions even after I have cleansed. Someone stated this above but a lot of Auto Attacks apply conditions (looking at you revenant). This is incredibly frustration just to cleanse all the conditions on you just to have torment stacks reapplied by someone press 1.

Many players above have given specific examples of classes and combos that can inflict lots of conditions on their own. This in a team fight is the multiplied because once you have cleansed other enemy players will then just apply new conditions.

 

Again, another issue is the sustain of condition classes. There is no real trade off currently. Players have already stated above, Power builds have to spec into Power, Precision and Ferocity and sacrifice sustain to do damage. Condi based classes only have to spec into Condition Damage then can spec into sustain attributes to be even more effective. This means they can still do a load of damage while still being able to take damage. It makes no sense from a balance stand point.

 

Most of the players I play with agree this is not fun to play against, watch others play or even play yourself.

If PvP is to even get support it needs to be exciting! Personally I think dodging key skills that cause big damage and making a coordinated burst with a team mate to get a down is more exciting that 2 players bunkering and spamming conditions on a node.

 

Obviously condition builds shouldn't have the Chronomancer treatment but it is obvious they are over performing and need a rework.