Roaming is dying out

[Aeolus.3615]

Roamming is alive... stack 10 condi builds so u can continuasly burst with condi the targets, and fight only 2-5max player groups

Mesmers, scourges, and FB, all condi.

 

this is what ive seen ... gw2 at is best very skillfull game 10/10

[mist.9807]

Yeah like a couple others said, very few people actually fight alone. Everyone's talking about great builds vs okay ones, but its also a matter of how many you're facing. I might be able to kill one spellbreaker, but two? Personally, that's not going to happen.

A lot of people are just too afraid of dying so they'd rather fight with a group / get easy kills compared to going solo. Even if you're solo roaming and you find another roamer, you better kill them quickly or else someone else will probably show up and interrupt. Someone sees a 1v1 and they figure they can bag tag. Their ally backed off? Better run away until they engage again.

Mind you, I've played in various times of the day in multiple tiers (NA). Some servers are better than others but this has been the general pattern for a long time. And yeah, good luck finding groups <5 during prime time.

[Theandil.6045]

> @Arimas.3492 said:

> * Rewards for roaming/taking small objectives have been, and will always will be, worse than joining zergs and getting lots of bags/taking big objectives

 

 

Just this and x100

[RodOfDeath.5247]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> Keep in mind guys ; a lot of servers arround with different tiers.

> Things happening on our/your server may not be the same on others.

 

Spot on, plenty of roaming in my tier. Don't get me wrong, it's a bit stagnant seeing "oh another condi necro or spell breaker" but at least there's roaming.

[Troj.7940]

Roaming is dying for many reasons.

 

1.) Sentries and towers marking you - means tower/keep jumpers all run out zerg you dead and run back to safety, only engaging when minimap says there is zero risk. horrible changes one of the worst for roamers in enemy areas of map and makes t3 areas a deathwish.

 

2.) Poorly implemented class design & lack of counterplay - self explanatory this is going the same pattern as previous expansion where classes are left unbalanced until enough have bought the expansion? Many new abilities again follow the same pattern, do you ever learn? Things with 0 internal cooldown which are always patched out a few months later, things with way too low cd that proc condi, cc, dmg all one one button, more passive abilities. To me it seems you wanted some of league of legends marketshare and making gw2 more like LoL with it coming down to strong elite skills. Also if you roam you will be killing scourges and spellbreakers 75% of the time, which is due to people playing fotm but this is down to the balance team in allowing some choices to become overpopular hence leading to lowered diversity of encounters (boring and repetitive).

 

3.) Gliding - again aids people in own areas or map allowing whole raids to drop right on top of you.

 

4.) Downedstate - poor mechanic and should not exist in wvw , it took 2 years for them to fix rallying off a deer/skelk and this is the anet jewel in the crown so I don;'t expect this horrible "everyone is a healer" mechanic to ever be removed from mass wvw. This is another artifical cap to fighting outnumbered and plagues roamers; some nights you just feel like you waste your time killing anyone when they are rezzed in either downedstate or after you have stomped them 5 seconds later. Takes you a long time using skill and awareness to down enemies behind enemy lines and solo yet they are back in a 1/10th of the time, so utterly pointless.

 

5.) Aoe cap - nuff said rewards people zerg balling and now with barriers and twice as many reflects most of the time it's again a waste of time to even bother fighting. Probaly a technical limitation so will not ever be changed.

[Troj.7940]

I would also like to add a wish...

 

Zergs should be permasnared 25% runspeed debuff. Should massive armies really have perma swiftness and be able to run down most solo roaming classes?

 

There should be more penalties for moving around in blobs. they are rewarded with loot and minimal effort as it is.

 

This is why you will see mostly mobile or stealth roaming builds in wvw.

[Hesacon.8735]

I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

 

Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

 

I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

[syntohras.1064]

90 % u see Spellbreaker or Condi cancer like Condi Thief ect. so yeah.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @coro.3176 said:

> In short, it's no fun for the prey so they leave, which makes it no fun for the predators.

>

> This is an inevitable result of the top roaming builds being SO MUCH more effective at what they do than "normal" builds.

>

> Why bother fighting a roaming spellbreaker if at best you'll stalemate them before their invulns/sustain come back, and at worst, they'll kill you in 2 hits.

>

> Why stick around to fight a roaming thief if you know they'll continually reset the fight and eventually catch you off guard with basi-venom up and burst you down?

>

> Why fight a roaming condi mes when your build doesn't pack enough cleanse to reasonably compete with their spam?

>

> Why fight a roaming scourge if you don't have 1200 range?

>

> There are so many situations where a player stands no chance in a fight that they tend to avoid 1v1 confrontations. They just assume (rightly, for the most part) that it's not worth trying, so instead they either give up and afk/die or run away and join the zerg. Then the roamers get bored because no one fights them and they go join the zerg too.

 

All of these can, and will have the same response: Skill

 

I can beat these classes w/o having your advantage examples if I am skilled enough at my class. The only way to git gud is to fight those that can beat you. Adapt and learn = skill.

[Jeknar.6184]

I mostly find Spellbrokens or PI Daredevils these days which make playing Solo Roaming rather boring... I kinda still do solo roam, but if after a time I only keep getting the same annoying fights, I'll problably either join a group or just go do somenthing else.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> > @coro.3176 said:

> > In short, it's no fun for the prey so they leave, which makes it no fun for the predators.

> >

> > This is an inevitable result of the top roaming builds being SO MUCH more effective at what they do than "normal" builds.

> >

> > Why bother fighting a roaming spellbreaker if at best you'll stalemate them before their invulns/sustain come back, and at worst, they'll kill you in 2 hits.

> >

> > Why stick around to fight a roaming thief if you know they'll continually reset the fight and eventually catch you off guard with basi-venom up and burst you down?

> >

> > Why fight a roaming condi mes when your build doesn't pack enough cleanse to reasonably compete with their spam?

> >

> > Why fight a roaming scourge if you don't have 1200 range?

> >

> > There are so many situations where a player stands no chance in a fight that they tend to avoid 1v1 confrontations. They just assume (rightly, for the most part) that it's not worth trying, so instead they either give up and afk/die or run away and join the zerg. Then the roamers get bored because no one fights them and they go join the zerg too.

>

> All of these can, and will have the same response: Skill

>

> I can beat these classes w/o having your advantage examples if I am skilled enough at my class. The only way to git gud is to fight those that can beat you. Adapt and learn = skill.

 

really hate how people say 'git gud' and try to dismiss the inherent advantages a class/build will confer to a player.

[Choppy.4183]

> @Hesacon.8735 said:

> I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

>

> Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

>

> I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

 

Which server are you on? I'd be happy to show you the weaknesses of Spellbreaker with you playing the Spellbreaker.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> > > @coro.3176 said:

> > > In short, it's no fun for the prey so they leave, which makes it no fun for the predators.

> > >

> > > This is an inevitable result of the top roaming builds being SO MUCH more effective at what they do than "normal" builds.

> > >

> > > Why bother fighting a roaming spellbreaker if at best you'll stalemate them before their invulns/sustain come back, and at worst, they'll kill you in 2 hits.

> > >

> > > Why stick around to fight a roaming thief if you know they'll continually reset the fight and eventually catch you off guard with basi-venom up and burst you down?

> > >

> > > Why fight a roaming condi mes when your build doesn't pack enough cleanse to reasonably compete with their spam?

> > >

> > > Why fight a roaming scourge if you don't have 1200 range?

> > >

> > > There are so many situations where a player stands no chance in a fight that they tend to avoid 1v1 confrontations. They just assume (rightly, for the most part) that it's not worth trying, so instead they either give up and afk/die or run away and join the zerg. Then the roamers get bored because no one fights them and they go join the zerg too.

> >

> > All of these can, and will have the same response: Skill

> >

> > I can beat these classes w/o having your advantage examples if I am skilled enough at my class. The only way to git gud is to fight those that can beat you. Adapt and learn = skill.

>

> really hate how people say 'git gud' and try to dismiss the inherent advantages a class/build will confer to a player.

 

Maybe because the advantages don't 110% define a match's outcome. Ive played reaper and beat P/P daredevils. Ive played daredevil and beat many medi guard/DH builds, Many scrappers, many long range classes and berzerkers. Ive at first lost so many fights vs these and was told to avoid them as they are generally "un-winnable". I adapted and learned tells, learned what my build (which wasnt meta either) could do. Its strengths and weaknesses. I was told to "Git Gud" and I did. Advantages or not, if I have enough skill, I will win. Comes with sparring and learning how to deal with certain builds. Ive even fought 1v1 (while streaming) with someone who pushed me to git gud and beat him (before I wouldn't have). He used to beat me sooooo many times. Came to a point I wanted to be as skilled as him. Now I whoop his butt a lot.

 

So yeah, I know how ya feel as I was told the same thing so I went with it and got gud despite odds.

[coro.3176]

> @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> > @coro.3176 said:

> > In short, it's no fun for the prey so they leave, which makes it no fun for the predators.

> >

> > This is an inevitable result of the top roaming builds being SO MUCH more effective at what they do than "normal" builds.

> >

> > Why bother fighting a roaming spellbreaker if at best you'll stalemate them before their invulns/sustain come back, and at worst, they'll kill you in 2 hits.

> >

> > Why stick around to fight a roaming thief if you know they'll continually reset the fight and eventually catch you off guard with basi-venom up and burst you down?

> >

> > Why fight a roaming condi mes when your build doesn't pack enough cleanse to reasonably compete with their spam?

> >

> > Why fight a roaming scourge if you don't have 1200 range?

> >

> > There are so many situations where a player stands no chance in a fight that they tend to avoid 1v1 confrontations. They just assume (rightly, for the most part) that it's not worth trying, so instead they either give up and afk/die or run away and join the zerg. Then the roamers get bored because no one fights them and they go join the zerg too.

>

> All of these can, and will have the same response: Skill

>

> I can beat these classes w/o having your advantage examples if I am skilled enough at my class. The only way to git gud is to fight those that can beat you. Adapt and learn = skill.

 

Yes and no.

 

It's true that a large skill disparity will decide fights. If your opponent is a 50th percentile thief, and you're a 99th percentile revenant then sure, you can pull off that win. It becomes more of a problem when two players of equal or similar skill levels don't have a fair (or fun) fight.

 

I tend to avoid 1v1's with spellbreakers at the moment because I know when I (glass engi) go into that fight, I'm at a massive disadvantage. If I make a single mistake, I am dead. The SB on the other hand, can make lots of mistakes and can fall back on tanky base armor, high passive sustain, passive invuln triggers, passive stab triggers, active invuln skills, and FC up every 6-8 seconds.

 

That's not to say I haven't beaten my fair share of spellbreakers in single combat. It's just that if I come across one of equal skill, the odds are so far in their favour that I'm not even going to bother fighting. I'll just run.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> I can beat these classes w/o having your advantage examples if I am skilled enough at my class. The only way to git gud is to fight those that can beat you. Adapt and learn = skill.

Sure i could die a hundred times in a row trying to adapt and learn how to beat other classes, but Anet says thats not participating in WvW, I'm not even playing. Only the people killing me are playing WvW.

 

If going 10v1 is playing WvW and going 1v10 isnt, shouldnt we play WvW?

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Because the majority won.

 

All contrary arguments aside, a majority of roaming occured on lower tier servers. They had to, because they didn't have a tag to follow most times. So they learned to do things by themselves or with one or two others.

 

There's still a few people that know you can solo or even duo any low tier keep if the timing is right, but those people are few and far between.

 

 

[Jeknar.6184]

> @HazyDaisy.4107 said:

> Because the majority won.

>

> All contrary arguments aside, a majority of roaming occured on lower tier servers. They had to, because they didn't have a tag to follow most times. So they learned to do things by themselves or with one or two others.

>

> There's still a few people that know you can solo or even duo any low tier keep if the timing is right, but those people are few and far between.

>

>

 

In the end, we'll all be assimilated by blob.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @coro.3176 said:

> In short, it's no fun for the prey so they leave, which makes it no fun for the predators.

>

> This is an inevitable result of the top roaming builds being SO MUCH more effective at what they do than "normal" builds.

>

> Why bother fighting a roaming spellbreaker if at best you'll stalemate them before their invulns/sustain come back, and at worst, they'll kill you in 2 hits.

>

> Why stick around to fight a roaming thief if you know they'll continually reset the fight and eventually catch you off guard with basi-venom up and burst you down?

>

> Why fight a roaming condi mes when your build doesn't pack enough cleanse to reasonably compete with their spam?

>

> Why fight a roaming scourge if you don't have 1200 range?

>

> There are so many situations where a player stands no chance in a fight that they tend to avoid 1v1 confrontations. They just assume (rightly, for the most part) that it's not worth trying, so instead they either give up and afk/die or run away and join the zerg. Then the roamers get bored because no one fights them and they go join the zerg too.

 

Pretty much this. The roaming at the moment is a mess. If i see a Spellbreaker i tend to steer clear because even the bad ones can get carried by being a Spellbreaker. Deadeye isnt a huge problem, i have a bigger problem against the spam "1" as much as you can Dagger Thieves that if they start to lose, jump out. Reset health and have no worry about cool downs because of Initiative :/

 

Anything Condi its going to be 75% chance i am going to lose, not because they play well but simply because of the sheer application Vs removal and how easily and quickly conditions are instantly reapplied. Whats the point in limited removals if condition application far exceeds the removal? while doing INSANE damage.

[PassionWhisky.3457]

> @Hesacon.8735 said:

> I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

>

> Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

>

> I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

 

generally Broken? Are u Stupid for shure, we have Only resistance 9 sec, with 60 sec CD and Endure Pain 4 sec with deffensive Trait 2 Times. And u said no one class have it right ? OK Ranger have the Same skills (Signet of Renewal and Signet of Stone), Elementalist can Heal it self and have mist form, ingi same can heals up and have 2 mini forms, Guardian can heal and have the F functions and the elite. I mean all Classes have skills to hold yourself alive, do u listen your Traits/Skills already ?

And u can beat a Spellbreaker, i had more as 1 Duells this week with a Elemantalist and he have great Build, he played core Ele and kite me like Hell but he knocked me down. Warriors not so fast as u think, ez to kite and dodge. U think Spellbreaker is to OP then are u very bad of course.

[Bish.8627]

All groups killing respawns from the zerg should be banned for life.

 

As should all mesmers and thieves running away from fights

 

And all those crying about spellbreakers when they are just upset there is a new mechanic and they can't handle change/or free kill like old warrior

 

Make WvW great again

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @PassionWhisky.3457 said:

> > @Hesacon.8735 said:

> > I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

> >

> > Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

> >

> > I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

>

> generally Broken? Are u Stupid for shure, we have Only resistance 9 sec, with 60 sec CD and Endure Pain 4 sec with deffensive Trait 2 Times. And u said no one class have it right ? OK Ranger have the Same skills (Signet of Renewal and Signet of Stone), Elementalist can Heal it self and have mist form, ingi same can heals up and have 2 mini forms, Guardian can heal and have the F functions and the elite. I mean all Classes have skills to hold yourself alive, do u listen your Traits/Skills already ?

> And u can beat a Spellbreaker, i had more as 1 Duells this week with a Elemantalist and he have great Build, he played core Ele and kite me like Hell but he knocked me down. Warriors not so fast as u think, ez to kite and dodge. U think Spellbreaker is to OP then are u very bad of course.

 

So you have to use a list of skills of MULTIPLE classes most of which arent actually as good as the Warrior versions to try and say that its not broken? Really!? "ONLY" 9 seconds of resistance at base, can reach MUCH higher if traited and/or with added boon duration. Signet of Renewal SUCKS its heavily reliant on AI, useless if you are in Beastmode AND a longer cool down at base by TEN seconds than the Warrior version. Comparing Mistform to Endure pain is just sad. Mistform where you cant do anything but move Vs Endure pain which STILL allows you to use skills, heals and everything else. Again Warrior one IS better, longer duration damage immunity, same cool down - all Mist form has is the added movement speed, easily counter by Warrior using one of his MANY mobility skills. I mean i could go on if you like...

[ugrakarma.9416]

Roaming is a niche, it was not an intentional game mode. So there has never been any builds with the intention of creating roamers, their existence is accidental.

 

However it is a bad idea to let a niche die, it means less options to enjoy a game mode. The correct thing would be to explore that niche. The more role options for WvW the better.

[Jeknar.6184]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @PassionWhisky.3457 said:

> > > @Hesacon.8735 said:

> > > I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

> > >

> > > Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

> > >

> > > I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

> >

> > generally Broken? Are u Stupid for shure, we have Only resistance 9 sec, with 60 sec CD and Endure Pain 4 sec with deffensive Trait 2 Times. And u said no one class have it right ? OK Ranger have the Same skills (Signet of Renewal and Signet of Stone), Elementalist can Heal it self and have mist form, ingi same can heals up and have 2 mini forms, Guardian can heal and have the F functions and the elite. I mean all Classes have skills to hold yourself alive, do u listen your Traits/Skills already ?

> > And u can beat a Spellbreaker, i had more as 1 Duells this week with a Elemantalist and he have great Build, he played core Ele and kite me like Hell but he knocked me down. Warriors not so fast as u think, ez to kite and dodge. U think Spellbreaker is to OP then are u very bad of course.

>

> So you have to use a list of skills of MULTIPLE classes most of which arent actually as good as the Warrior versions to try and say that its not broken? Really!? "ONLY" 9 seconds of resistance at base, can reach MUCH higher if traited and/or with added boon duration. Signet of Renewal SUCKS its heavily reliant on AI, useless if you are in Beastmode AND a longer cool down at base by TEN seconds than the Warrior version. Comparing Mistform to Endure pain is just sad. Mistform where you cant do anything but move Vs Endure pain which STILL allows you to use skills, heals and everything else. Again Warrior one IS better, longer duration damage immunity, same cool down - all Mist form has is the added movement speed, easily counter by Warrior using one of his MANY mobility skills. I mean i could go on if you like...

 

And let's not forget Spellbreaker also have skills that give resistance (2s from lulcounter when traited and 5s from Featherfoot Grace which is also a stunbreaker that give superspeed) and in last case scenarios, the warrior can still press the forbidden button (Healing Signet) for another 6s of resistance.

I can easily maintain perma resistance with Spellbreaker with Commander's Armor and Durability runes unless I'm fighting somenthing that can rip it off.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > @PassionWhisky.3457 said:

> > > > @Hesacon.8735 said:

> > > > I roam every day of the week and I'm constantly running into enemy roamers trying to stop me.

> > > >

> > > > Warriors generally are broken because they take no power or condition damage. Every other class I've found beatable playing necro, thief, or ranger.

> > > >

> > > > I recently rolled a spellbreaker to try to find weakness in it, so far I haven't. I've won every fight where I didn't make a mistake that can be attributed to my learning the class.

> > >

> > > generally Broken? Are u Stupid for shure, we have Only resistance 9 sec, with 60 sec CD and Endure Pain 4 sec with deffensive Trait 2 Times. And u said no one class have it right ? OK Ranger have the Same skills (Signet of Renewal and Signet of Stone), Elementalist can Heal it self and have mist form, ingi same can heals up and have 2 mini forms, Guardian can heal and have the F functions and the elite. I mean all Classes have skills to hold yourself alive, do u listen your Traits/Skills already ?

> > > And u can beat a Spellbreaker, i had more as 1 Duells this week with a Elemantalist and he have great Build, he played core Ele and kite me like Hell but he knocked me down. Warriors not so fast as u think, ez to kite and dodge. U think Spellbreaker is to OP then are u very bad of course.

> >

> > So you have to use a list of skills of MULTIPLE classes most of which arent actually as good as the Warrior versions to try and say that its not broken? Really!? "ONLY" 9 seconds of resistance at base, can reach MUCH higher if traited and/or with added boon duration. Signet of Renewal SUCKS its heavily reliant on AI, useless if you are in Beastmode AND a longer cool down at base by TEN seconds than the Warrior version. Comparing Mistform to Endure pain is just sad. Mistform where you cant do anything but move Vs Endure pain which STILL allows you to use skills, heals and everything else. Again Warrior one IS better, longer duration damage immunity, same cool down - all Mist form has is the added movement speed, easily counter by Warrior using one of his MANY mobility skills. I mean i could go on if you like...

>

> And let's not forget Spellbreaker also have skills that give resistance (2s from lulcounter when traited and 5s from Featherfoot Grace which is also a stunbreaker that give superspeed) and in last case scenarios, the warrior can still press the forbidden button (Healing Signet) for another 6s of resistance.

> I can easily maintain perma resistance with Spellbreaker with Commander's Armor and Durability runes unless I'm fighting somenthing that can rip it off.

 

Exactly, They have HUGE access to condition counters and iirc werent Warrior at the start of the game meant to be designed to be weaker against conditions? Yet they are currently one of the best against it. I still say Conditions wont be fixed until it gets to a point where they proper counter Warriors and even then, they would likely buff Warrior to put them above condis again anyway :/

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Bish.8627 said:

> All groups killing respawns from the zerg should be banned for life.

>

> As should all mesmers and thieves running away from fights

>

> And all those crying about spellbreakers when they are just upset there is a new mechanic and they can't handle change/or free kill like old warrior

>

> Make WvW great again

 

So, allowing reinforcements is good. Got it.