Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. > > > Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. What is the other option that they will stay on the battlefield for 1s before they execute themselves a second time? Don’t you see the problem here? Not to mention that is nice feed for Necros at this point. > You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. > > Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel Why should I not compare core to chrono xD little bit curious here. The superspeed is great yes, but is now mandatory for power shatter Chronos since your clones need ONE MORE SECOND to do a good amount of damage and only if everything hits. Who cares if you do more dmg on paper if you are unable to take out low targets in the right moment. If the enemy only uses one port to a tricky location or even just dodges in this one second the 2. strike from f1 will not hit. To condi chrono: There is no way you will be able to play condi chrono after this patch. Right now you can use F2 every 5 damn seconds. If you spam it right 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks torment are possible but even if you can do this the amount of frequent conditions is not enough to go against anything that has more then 2 condi removes. Go test it yourself I did my part here. And if you are supposed to take inspiration as chrono you are unable to output any damage. So what are you talking about? Power Chrono has also no room for two offensive trait lines as I stated. Taking duel as chrono is making him a glass cannon without the cannon. Again how are you supposed to remove any condis or in generell defend yourself? You take what? SoM and torch? Then the only advantage chrono brings is his elite skill. Who cares if you can use your GS combo every 8 and not 10 seconds. After you used your first burst you are dead anyways. And the burst damage can be evaded easily after the patch. Chrono Phantasm is still counterproductive for chrono and has the odd trade off to delay the clone production AND phantasms are in generell the eisest skill to evade in gw2. Beside that as I showed you with the calculation, if you don’t take Illusion as chrono you will not have a 100% crit chance for your first strike resulting in lower damage then core, even after the second hit of F1. > Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief This is one of the biggest problems why Mesmer can’t be viable in PvP. Changing chrono to be even more of a free kill to thief is not exactly what helps. Taking inspiration is no option either. I could think of an hybrid chrono this will maybe work to gain the dmgoutput you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoci.2481 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Main reason to play Chrono is you don't need runes with 25% movement speed. ^ . ^ ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryxis.6950 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryxis.6950 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) > > And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol I mean we don't even know is the second part of the f1 damage is dodgeable the combo might be the same as the core one edit : also i said gs5 but you can probably use sword 3 aswell to prevent a dodge, which lets you swap and sword 2 tho it's a little slower than core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > You guys should stop qqing, these changes to chrono are kitten great! Except for the fact that they didnt rework chronophantasma. What changes? The only thing worth mentioning is the return of IP. Everything else will either stay the same or was nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > > > > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > > > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > > > > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. > > > > > > Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. > > What is the other option that they will stay on the battlefield for 1s before they execute themselves a second time? Don’t you see the problem here? Not to mention that is nice feed for Necros at this point. Idk yet, either it will be a lingering field kinda like the thing that appears after mirage heal, or it will be something that triggers on the same targets a second time after a delay, like pulmonary impact. > > > You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. > > > > Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel > > Why should I not compare core to chrono xD little bit curious here. The superspeed is great yes, but is now mandatory for power shatter Chronos since your clones need ONE MORE SECOND to do a good amount of damage and only if everything hits. Ah sorry, I meant that comparing domi/duel/illu burst damage to chrono doesnt mean much, of course you can compare chrono and core in a general sense though, apologies for the confusion. > Who cares if you do more dmg on paper if you are unable to take out low targets in the right moment. If the enemy only uses one port to a tricky location or even just dodges in this one second the 2. strike from f1 will not hit. It depends on how it will work, it could very well be a pulmonary impact dealio in which case it is fine. Also superspeed is not just to do fast burst, it is very helpful when chasing an enemy and also to make your clones less prone to getting killed before they reach the target. And you can also give your phantasms superspeed to make thdm catchup which is interesting. > > To condi chrono: There is no way you will be able to play condi chrono after this patch. Right now you can use F2 every 5 kitten seconds. If you spam it right 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks torment are possible but even if you can do this the amount of frequent conditions is not enough to go against anything that has more then 2 condi removes. Go test it yourself I did my part here. And if you are supposed to take inspiration as chrono you are unable to output any damage. So what are you talking about? I know this, but remember after patch you will automatically get more torment and confusion since you have an additional shatter (around yourself). F2 will still have pretty low cd but yeah not as stupidly low as before (which is a good thing). About the inspiration line I can agree it is not certain. I am mainly going by what condi chrono used to run back in HoT. Duel illu could be interesting as well. The main thing that keeps condi chrono back is that staff is so weak rn. > > Power Chrono has also no room for two offensive trait lines as I stated. Taking duel as chrono is making him a glass cannon without the cannon. Again how are you supposed to remove any condis or in generell defend yourself? You take what? SoM and torch? Then the only advantage chrono brings is his elite skill. Who cares if you can use your GS combo every 8 and not 10 seconds. After you used your first burst you are dead anyways. And the burst damage can be evaded easily after the patch. Condi remove is from well heal, sigils, make some utility. Unless there is some aids phantasm build you will have to go 2 offensive lines or you don't have impact. You would play it like a reaper I suppose. And yes, I don't think power chrono will be meta or anything. Thief and powerev will fuck it up as usual. Chrono Phantasm is still counterproductive for chrono and has the odd trade off to delay the clone production AND phantasms are in generell the eisest skill to evade in gw2. Beside that as I showed you with the calculation, if you don’t take Illusion as chrono you will not have a 100% crit chance for your first strike resulting in lower damage then core, even after the second hit of F1. Cba reading pointless math rn, will test after the patch comes. The mechanics of the shatter is more important than the dmg. > > > Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief > > This is one of the biggest problems why Mesmer can’t be viable in PvP. Changing chrono to be even more of a free kill to thief is not exactly what helps. Taking inspiration is no option either. I could think of an hybrid chrono this will maybe work to gain the dmgoutput you need. Idk what you mean by hybrid, but all condi builds are really hybrid especially on mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Yoci.2481" said: > Main reason to play Chrono is you don't need runes with 25% movement speed. ^ . ^ ' Yea and this is underrated, it feels so much better to play as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > You guys should stop qqing, these changes to chrono are kitten great! Except for the fact that they didnt rework chronophantasma. > > What changes? The only thing worth mentioning is the return of IP. Everything else will either stay the same or was nerfed. The mirage changes were trash but aside from removing chronophantasma this is what I wanted for chrono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansau.7326 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Yeeeeeeey Chrono isn't flawed finally!!! Props to them they "only" need one year to realize it... Anyway, thanks to the anet sistematic nerf policy for over 2 years to mesmer, expect to still working twice as much as others to do the same. But hey, at least we can finally slot Chrono in our toons without feeling the game doesn't want us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) > > And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol Ah you are a wvw player, that changes things a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > > > > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > > > > > > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > > > > > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. > > > > > > > > > Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. > > > > What is the other option that they will stay on the battlefield for 1s before they execute themselves a second time? Don’t you see the problem here? Not to mention that is nice feed for Necros at this point. > Idk yet, either it will be a lingering field kinda like the thing that appears after mirage heal, or it will be something that triggers on the same targets a second time after a delay, like pulmonary impact. > > > > > You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. > > > > > > Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel > > > > Why should I not compare core to chrono xD little bit curious here. The superspeed is great yes, but is now mandatory for power shatter Chronos since your clones need ONE MORE SECOND to do a good amount of damage and only if everything hits. > Ah sorry, I meant that comparing domi/duel/illu burst damage to chrono doesnt mean much, of course you can compare chrono and core in a general sense though, apologies for the confusion. You need to compare it to the other Mesmer specs, and in generell with other classes and their capability to deliver a power based build to see if power chrono is worth to take. And it will have lower damage output and defense then core. > > Who cares if you do more dmg on paper if you are unable to take out low targets in the right moment. If the enemy only uses one port to a tricky location or even just dodges in this one second the 2. strike from f1 will not hit. > It depends on how it will work, it could very well be a pulmonary impact dealio in which case it is fine. Also superspeed is not just to do fast burst, it is very helpful when chasing an enemy and also to make your clones less prone to getting killed before they reach the target. And you can also give your phantasms superspeed to make thdm catchup which is interesting. That’s why I said „to be speculative“ we will know when it comes out in the end... But even if it would be like pulmonary impact doesn’t change that it still will do less damage then core over a longer period of time. Split second is another downgrade from core to chrono now. > > To condi chrono: There is no way you will be able to play condi chrono after this patch. Right now you can use F2 every 5 kitten seconds. If you spam it right 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks torment are possible but even if you can do this the amount of frequent conditions is not enough to go against anything that has more then 2 condi removes. Go test it yourself I did my part here. And if you are supposed to take inspiration as chrono you are unable to output any damage. So what are you talking about? > I know this, but remember after patch you will automatically get more torment and confusion since you have an additional shatter (around yourself). F2 will still have pretty low cd but yeah not as stupidly low as before (which is a good thing). > > About the inspiration line I can agree it is not certain. I am mainly going by what condi chrono used to run back in HoT. Duel illu could be interesting as well. The main thing that keeps condi chrono back is that staff is so weak rn. If you are going mainly by things you played back in HoT then I have some really really bad news for you... What are you saying is just not really right beside the change to less spammy mechanics (I have to give you that) Yes great we got IP but the 2 stacks on confusion and 2 stacks of torment will not help to fulfill the need of chrono to output more conditions on a reliable base paired with no defense. This is why you just talk in theory of condi chrono while I played it and tested every damn gear on it with condi stats in PvP and wvw. You tell me staff is holding condi chrono back but in reality staff has nothing to do with it. Even if you would buff staff it needs to gain more condi dmg then scepter + torch or pistol. And if you give up sword for staff or scepter you don’t even have another invul skill as chrono wich makes it even more squishy. So as condi chrono you HAVE to take sword, torch, scepter and pistol to create enough condi damage to pressure down people who are unable to stop walking and casting attacks for 4 seconds. Yes Illu duel is interesting. It is exactly the build I posted here in this forum not long ago. To be exact duel illu is the only way you can output enough condi dmg. > > Power Chrono has also no room for two offensive trait lines as I stated. Taking duel as chrono is making him a glass cannon without the cannon. Again how are you supposed to remove any condis or in generell defend yourself? You take what? SoM and torch? Then the only advantage chrono brings is his elite skill. Who cares if you can use your GS combo every 8 and not 10 seconds. After you used your first burst you are dead anyways. And the burst damage can be evaded easily after the patch. > Condi remove is from well heal, sigils, make some utility. Unless there is some aids phantasm build you will have to go 2 offensive lines or you don't have impact. You would play it like a reaper I suppose. And yes, I don't think power chrono will be meta or anything. Thief and powerev will kitten it up as usual. Heal well is garbage and only removes 1 condition, sigils only if you took inspiration trait line and then you do no damage anymore. But great that you see that you have to take 2 offensive traitlines to be impactful. Only one more step to see that chrono has more then only a survival problem now. And yes as you said thief and power rev will now kitten up chrono more then ever and chrono will be not playable in PvP for another year or 2 > > Chrono Phantasm is still counterproductive for chrono and has the odd trade off to delay the clone production AND phantasms are in generell the eisest skill to evade in gw2. Beside that as I showed you with the calculation, if you don’t take Illusion as chrono you will not have a 100% crit chance for your first strike resulting in lower damage then core, even after the second hit of F1. > Cba reading pointless math rn, will test after the patch comes. The mechanics of the shatter is more important than the dmg. Yes the mechanics are more important and then mechanics got nerfed from direct dmg to delayed dmg. Do you now agree with me or not? > > > Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief > > > > This is one of the biggest problems why Mesmer can’t be viable in PvP. Changing chrono to be even more of a free kill to thief is not exactly what helps. Taking inspiration is no option either. I could think of an hybrid chrono this will maybe work to gain the dmgoutput you need. > Idk what you mean by hybrid, but all condi builds are really hybrid especially on mesmer. > Hybrid means something paired like condi + direct damage. Saying that a condi build is a hybrid build is just wrong xD > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) > > > > And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol > > Ah you are a wvw player, that changes things a lot WvW + PvP , and what are you telling me here? That you talked about PvE? I talked about thief will be kitten up chrono even more what has this to do with only WvW now. My perspective is always a player versus player based opinion because I think pve can be balanced by just tweaking damage numbers while PvP needs to balance mechanics out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 @"Noodle Ant.1605" A you are right, I missed glamour trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I must admit that I'm more bothered by the loss of _distorsion_ than the loss of dps on shatters. Overall some QoL come back and it's relieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > But the most times power chrono will not have the room for the illusion trait line so now a calculation core with Master of fragmentation (+25 crit chance) and chrono without: > > core: dmg_multiplicator = 4 * 1,2 * 1= 4,8 > > chrono: dmg_multiplicator = 4 * 1,2 * 0,66 * 0,75 * 1,05 + 4 * 0,66 * 0,75 = 4,4748 > > this means that chrono will do (4,4746/4,8= 0,9322) 6,78% LESS damage then core How is "6,78% LESS damage" an issue when you also get alacrity, continuum shift, and chronophantasma on top? Is Chrono supposed to be better than core in every respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > > > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > > > > > > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > > > > > > > > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. > > > > > > What is the other option that they will stay on the battlefield for 1s before they execute themselves a second time? Don’t you see the problem here? Not to mention that is nice feed for Necros at this point. > > Idk yet, either it will be a lingering field kinda like the thing that appears after mirage heal, or it will be something that triggers on the same targets a second time after a delay, like pulmonary impact. > > > > > > > You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. > > > > > > > > Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel > > > > > > Why should I not compare core to chrono xD little bit curious here. The superspeed is great yes, but is now mandatory for power shatter Chronos since your clones need ONE MORE SECOND to do a good amount of damage and only if everything hits. > > Ah sorry, I meant that comparing domi/duel/illu burst damage to chrono doesnt mean much, of course you can compare chrono and core in a general sense though, apologies for the confusion. > > You need to compare it to the other Mesmer specs, and in generell with other classes and their capability to deliver a power based build to see if power chrono is worth to take. And it will have lower damage output and defense then core. > > > > Who cares if you do more dmg on paper if you are unable to take out low targets in the right moment. If the enemy only uses one port to a tricky location or even just dodges in this one second the 2. strike from f1 will not hit. > > It depends on how it will work, it could very well be a pulmonary impact dealio in which case it is fine. Also superspeed is not just to do fast burst, it is very helpful when chasing an enemy and also to make your clones less prone to getting killed before they reach the target. And you can also give your phantasms superspeed to make thdm catchup which is interesting. > > That’s why I said „to be speculative“ we will know when it comes out in the end... But even if it would be like pulmonary impact doesn’t change that it still will do less damage then core over a longer period of time. Split second is another downgrade from core to chrono now. This is not really true > > > > To condi chrono: There is no way you will be able to play condi chrono after this patch. Right now you can use F2 every 5 kitten seconds. If you spam it right 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks torment are possible but even if you can do this the amount of frequent conditions is not enough to go against anything that has more then 2 condi removes. Go test it yourself I did my part here. And if you are supposed to take inspiration as chrono you are unable to output any damage. So what are you talking about? > > I know this, but remember after patch you will automatically get more torment and confusion since you have an additional shatter (around yourself). F2 will still have pretty low cd but yeah not as stupidly low as before (which is a good thing). > > > > About the inspiration line I can agree it is not certain. I am mainly going by what condi chrono used to run back in HoT. Duel illu could be interesting as well. The main thing that keeps condi chrono back is that staff is so weak rn. > > If you are going mainly by things you played back in HoT then I have some really really bad news for you... > > What are you saying is just not really right beside the change to less spammy mechanics (I have to give you that) Yes great we got IP but the 2 stacks on confusion and 2 stacks of torment will not help to fulfill the need of chrono to output more conditions on a reliable base paired with no defense. This is why you just talk in theory of condi chrono while I played it and tested every kitten gear on it with condi stats in PvP and wvw. You tell me staff is holding condi chrono back but in reality staff has nothing to do with it. Even if you would buff staff it needs to gain more condi dmg then scepter + torch or pistol. And if you give up sword for staff or scepter you don’t even have another invul skill as chrono wich makes it even more squishy. So as condi chrono you HAVE to take sword, torch, scepter and pistol to create enough condi damage to pressure down people who are unable to stop walking and casting attacks for 4 seconds. Yes Illu duel is interesting. It is exactly the build I posted here in this forum not long ago. To be exact duel illu is the only way you can output enough condi dmg. > Lol, you don't think I've also tried chrono in p2-p3? Hilarious. Including dueling illusions which was necessary because there was no IP - which will not be the case after patch. > > > Power Chrono has also no room for two offensive trait lines as I stated. Taking duel as chrono is making him a glass cannon without the cannon. Again how are you supposed to remove any condis or in generell defend yourself? You take what? SoM and torch? Then the only advantage chrono brings is his elite skill. Who cares if you can use your GS combo every 8 and not 10 seconds. After you used your first burst you are dead anyways. And the burst damage can be evaded easily after the patch. > > Condi remove is from well heal, sigils, make some utility. Unless there is some aids phantasm build you will have to go 2 offensive lines or you don't have impact. You would play it like a reaper I suppose. And yes, I don't think power chrono will be meta or anything. Thief and powerev will kitten it up as usual. > > Heal well is garbage and only removes 1 condition, sigils only if you took inspiration trait line and then you do no damage anymore. But great that you see that you have to take 2 offensive traitlines to be impactful. Only one more step to see that chrono has more then only a survival problem now. And yes as you said thief and power rev will now kitten up chrono more then ever and chrono will be not playable in PvP for another year or 2 Sigils =/= signets. > > > > Chrono Phantasm is still counterproductive for chrono and has the odd trade off to delay the clone production AND phantasms are in generell the eisest skill to evade in gw2. Beside that as I showed you with the calculation, if you don’t take Illusion as chrono you will not have a 100% crit chance for your first strike resulting in lower damage then core, even after the second hit of F1. > > Cba reading pointless math rn, will test after the patch comes. The mechanics of the shatter is more important than the dmg. > > Yes the mechanics are more important and then mechanics got nerfed from direct dmg to delayed dmg. Do you now agree with me or not? I am talking about whether it will be a delayed aoe, a PI-style proc, or otherwise. Of course having instant damage is always better, they removed it to stop complaints about stealth oneshots and such. > > > > > Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief > > > > > > This is one of the biggest problems why Mesmer can’t be viable in PvP. Changing chrono to be even more of a free kill to thief is not exactly what helps. Taking inspiration is no option either. I could think of an hybrid chrono this will maybe work to gain the dmgoutput you need. > > Idk what you mean by hybrid, but all condi builds are really hybrid especially on mesmer. > > > > Hybrid means something paired like condi + direct damage. Saying that a condi build is a hybrid build is just wrong xD Condi mesmer builds are "paired condi + direct damage", what are you talking about? The closest you get to pure condi is rabid, which is trash. > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > > > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) > > > > > > And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol > > > > Ah you are a wvw player, that changes things a lot > > WvW + PvP , and what are you telling me here? That you talked about PvE? I talked about thief will be kitten up chrono even more what has this to do with only WvW now. My perspective is always a player versus player based opinion because I think pve can be balanced by just tweaking damage numbers while PvP needs to balance mechanics out too. Talking about pvp. Wvw is completely different. We are in a teamfight-heavy meta, which is generally more suited to chrono while mirage is more suited as a roamer. > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > > > > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. > > > > > > > > What is the other option that they will stay on the battlefield for 1s before they execute themselves a second time? Don’t you see the problem here? Not to mention that is nice feed for Necros at this point. > > > Idk yet, either it will be a lingering field kinda like the thing that appears after mirage heal, or it will be something that triggers on the same targets a second time after a delay, like pulmonary impact. > > > > > > > > > You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. > > > > > > > > > > Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel > > > > > > > > Why should I not compare core to chrono xD little bit curious here. The superspeed is great yes, but is now mandatory for power shatter Chronos since your clones need ONE MORE SECOND to do a good amount of damage and only if everything hits. > > > Ah sorry, I meant that comparing domi/duel/illu burst damage to chrono doesnt mean much, of course you can compare chrono and core in a general sense though, apologies for the confusion. > > > > You need to compare it to the other Mesmer specs, and in generell with other classes and their capability to deliver a power based build to see if power chrono is worth to take. And it will have lower damage output and defense then core. > > > > > > Who cares if you do more dmg on paper if you are unable to take out low targets in the right moment. If the enemy only uses one port to a tricky location or even just dodges in this one second the 2. strike from f1 will not hit. > > > It depends on how it will work, it could very well be a pulmonary impact dealio in which case it is fine. Also superspeed is not just to do fast burst, it is very helpful when chasing an enemy and also to make your clones less prone to getting killed before they reach the target. And you can also give your phantasms superspeed to make thdm catchup which is interesting. > > > > That’s why I said „to be speculative“ we will know when it comes out in the end... But even if it would be like pulmonary impact doesn’t change that it still will do less damage then core over a longer period of time. Split second is another downgrade from core to chrono now. > This is not really true It is. xD > > > > To condi chrono: There is no way you will be able to play condi chrono after this patch. Right now you can use F2 every 5 kitten seconds. If you spam it right 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks torment are possible but even if you can do this the amount of frequent conditions is not enough to go against anything that has more then 2 condi removes. Go test it yourself I did my part here. And if you are supposed to take inspiration as chrono you are unable to output any damage. So what are you talking about? > > > I know this, but remember after patch you will automatically get more torment and confusion since you have an additional shatter (around yourself). F2 will still have pretty low cd but yeah not as stupidly low as before (which is a good thing). > > > > > > About the inspiration line I can agree it is not certain. I am mainly going by what condi chrono used to run back in HoT. Duel illu could be interesting as well. The main thing that keeps condi chrono back is that staff is so weak rn. > > > > If you are going mainly by things you played back in HoT then I have some really really bad news for you... > > > > What are you saying is just not really right beside the change to less spammy mechanics (I have to give you that) Yes great we got IP but the 2 stacks on confusion and 2 stacks of torment will not help to fulfill the need of chrono to output more conditions on a reliable base paired with no defense. This is why you just talk in theory of condi chrono while I played it and tested every kitten gear on it with condi stats in PvP and wvw. You tell me staff is holding condi chrono back but in reality staff has nothing to do with it. Even if you would buff staff it needs to gain more condi dmg then scepter + torch or pistol. And if you give up sword for staff or scepter you don’t even have another invul skill as chrono wich makes it even more squishy. So as condi chrono you HAVE to take sword, torch, scepter and pistol to create enough condi damage to pressure down people who are unable to stop walking and casting attacks for 4 seconds. Yes Illu duel is interesting. It is exactly the build I posted here in this forum not long ago. To be exact duel illu is the only way you can output enough condi dmg. > > > Lol, you don't think I've also tried chrono in p2-p3? Hilarious. Including dueling illusions which was necessary because there was no IP - which will not be the case after patch. Then why even talk about it if you know how pathetic it is and will be after the patch. You are the one who talked about staff would hold chrono down which is fetched from really far away. We are turning in circles because I want to explain to you again that IP will not help condi chrono. IP is mandatory for Mesmer, it should not be seen as a buff to implement more nerfs to a class that can’t produce enough damage. > > > > Power Chrono has also no room for two offensive trait lines as I stated. Taking duel as chrono is making him a glass cannon without the cannon. Again how are you supposed to remove any condis or in generell defend yourself? You take what? SoM and torch? Then the only advantage chrono brings is his elite skill. Who cares if you can use your GS combo every 8 and not 10 seconds. After you used your first burst you are dead anyways. And the burst damage can be evaded easily after the patch. > > > Condi remove is from well heal, sigils, make some utility. Unless there is some aids phantasm build you will have to go 2 offensive lines or you don't have impact. You would play it like a reaper I suppose. And yes, I don't think power chrono will be meta or anything. Thief and powerev will kitten it up as usual. > > > > Heal well is garbage and only removes 1 condition, sigils only if you took inspiration trait line and then you do no damage anymore. But great that you see that you have to take 2 offensive traitlines to be impactful. Only one more step to see that chrono has more then only a survival problem now. And yes as you said thief and power rev will now kitten up chrono more then ever and chrono will be not playable in PvP for another year or 2 > Sigils =/= signets. Oh sorry after all these years still the same mistake xD. But the suggestion to require condi remove via sigils is even more ridiculous wtf. > > > > Chrono Phantasm is still counterproductive for chrono and has the odd trade off to delay the clone production AND phantasms are in generell the eisest skill to evade in gw2. Beside that as I showed you with the calculation, if you don’t take Illusion as chrono you will not have a 100% crit chance for your first strike resulting in lower damage then core, even after the second hit of F1. > > > Cba reading pointless math rn, will test after the patch comes. The mechanics of the shatter is more important than the dmg. > > > > Yes the mechanics are more important and then mechanics got nerfed from direct dmg to delayed dmg. Do you now agree with me or not? > I am talking about whether it will be a delayed aoe, a PI-style proc, or otherwise. Of course having instant damage is always better, they removed it to stop complaints about stealth oneshots and such. > > > > > > > Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief > > > > > > > > This is one of the biggest problems why Mesmer can’t be viable in PvP. Changing chrono to be even more of a free kill to thief is not exactly what helps. Taking inspiration is no option either. I could think of an hybrid chrono this will maybe work to gain the dmgoutput you need. > > > Idk what you mean by hybrid, but all condi builds are really hybrid especially on mesmer. > > > > > > > Hybrid means something paired like condi + direct damage. Saying that a condi build is a hybrid build is just wrong xD > Condi mesmer builds are "paired condi + direct damage", what are you talking about? The closest you get to pure condi is rabid, which is trash. Condi is condi, direct damage is direct damage and hybrid can be both. (It can also be heal + condi or power + heal) If a car has a fuel and an electric engine you call it hybride.If you take grieving , carrion or similar you are not a pure condi spec anymore. It doesn’t matter if rabid is trash it’s about the definition. Don’t know why you make it a problem now. > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > > > > I'm pretty sure the second hit when it comes to the f1 will be like pulmonary impact considering you need slow your target for it to hit a second time. For example if you hit two people with your f1 and only one of them is slowed it would not make sense for the second part to be AoE because the target that isn't slowed is not supposed to get hit. That said maybe you'll be able to dodge the second part of the f1 in which case using illusionary wave might become part of the one shot combo in order to shut down any attempt to dodge (which might make people take the trait that puts quickness on shatter so people don't have as much time to dodge the gs5 but i'm conjecturing a lot here) > > > > > > > > And the „one shot combo“ is then what? 4 seconds long and needs 6+ skills to be execute. If you use GS 5 for the combo you can’t weapon swap and combo with hydro signet and sword 2... No thanks I take core and burst directly 50% or more health away from the enemy and hope for the best because you know what? I have F4 as core and chrono not. lol > > > > > > Ah you are a wvw player, that changes things a lot > > > > WvW + PvP , and what are you telling me here? That you talked about PvE? I talked about thief will be kitten up chrono even more what has this to do with only WvW now. My perspective is always a player versus player based opinion because I think pve can be balanced by just tweaking damage numbers while PvP needs to balance mechanics out too. > Talking about pvp. Wvw is completely different. We are in a teamfight-heavy meta, which is generally more suited to chrono while mirage is more suited as a roamer. In what kind of teamfights? Where your illusions die before they can shatter? Where you are not able to use more then 1 clone skill before you shatter them in panic to gain at least any kind of bonus from it. This kind of teamfights do you mean? Where you shatter f1 f2 and f3 right after another to buff your group with the little amount of quickness a chrono is able to because wells don’t do their job in wvw? Do you really mean this kind of teamfights? If we talk about shattering we are always at small scale because there is no point in talking about using clones in big scale fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Can't be bothered to quote a two page of quotes, so I'll just say, Split Second deals less damage than core since it was implemented, even with slow. Don't remember the name of the dude who ran the calculations. So yeah, with the 33% nerf it will still deal less damage than core even striking twice. To boot chrono survival will still be shit. You're just much better off playing core. Edit: dude was Pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > But the most times power chrono will not have the room for the illusion trait line so now a calculation core with Master of fragmentation (+25 crit chance) and chrono without: > > > > core: dmg_multiplicator = 4 * 1,2 * 1= 4,8 > > > > chrono: dmg_multiplicator = 4 * 1,2 * 0,66 * 0,75 * 1,05 + 4 * 0,66 * 0,75 = 4,4748 > > > > this means that chrono will do (4,4746/4,8= 0,9322) 6,78% LESS damage then core > > How is "6,78% LESS damage" an issue when you also get alacrity, continuum shift, and chronophantasma on top? Is Chrono supposed to be better than core in every respect? Better question is: How many trade offs do you want to give chrono? As if he wouldn’t be punished with the F4 loss. CS doesn’t even generate distortion anymore, making it unusable if you are low life and under pressure... Why is CP now a justification to give more trade offs at all?? CP has a trade off itself btw. This is so ridiculous, there is this one time chrono gets something paired with more nerfs and everyone thinks this will change anything about chrono. The truth is one 50% nerf after another grinded chrono down to the state he is today. No IP will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Can't be bothered to quote a two page of quotes, so I'll just say, Split Second deals less damage than core since it was implemented, even with slow. Don't remember the name of the dude who ran the calculations. > So yeah, with the 33% nerf it will still deal less damage than core even striking twice. > > To boot chrono survival will still be kitten. > You're just much better off playing core. > > Edit: dude was Pyro. @"Pyroatheist.9031" Also, this may be a glass half empty/glass half full situation, but this was technically a 33% buff. People in fractals/wvw/pvp generally have terrible slow uptime. From their perspective shatters are hitting harder than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > You guys should stop qqing, these changes to chrono are kitten great! Except for the fact that they didnt rework chronophantasma. Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > You guys should stop qqing, these changes to chrono are kitten great! Except for the fact that they didnt rework chronophantasma. > > Mirage. Yeah the mirage changes were shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Can't be bothered to quote a two page of quotes, so I'll just say, Split Second deals less damage than core since it was implemented, even with slow. Don't remember the name of the dude who ran the calculations. > So yeah, with the 33% nerf it will still deal less damage than core even striking twice. > > To boot chrono survival will still be kitten. > You're just much better off playing core. > > Edit: dude was Pyro. SS has the same coeffs as MW for example 2 illusions has 1.6+0.8 = 2.4, so with chrono post-patch this should be 2.4\*0.67 = 1.6, and then it hits twice so it becomes 1.6\*2 = 3.2 (depending on how the mechanic works) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros.8249 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Rewinder does 12 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of torment with 5 sec cd. With the new update it does 16 stacks of confusion and 4 stacks of torment with 10,75 sec cd. Is this a buff or a nerf? The number are with alacrity and the usual setup of condi chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 _"Additionally, we are making a few small changes to mirage skills **to improve their usability**."_ Well you sure as hell got the "small" right, but I'mma have to press X to doubt on the bold. _Mirage Retreat: This skill no longer breaks enemy targeting_. -If this doesn't come with a removal of the cast time it just makes it even more worthless. _Chaos Vortex: Increased the number of targets from 5 to 10._ I guess this might be handy to tag in WvW? But does nothing for matchups or skirmishes so... I guess it's a vague definition of "usability" _Crystal Sands: Reduced the aftercast by 0.4 seconds._ Increased projectile speed such that mirror now forms 0.25 seconds faster. lol okay, thanks for the token PvE QoL change. I have a better idea if you want to "improve usability" give them a second evade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now