necromaniac.7629 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > Phantasmal swordsman - way better but still trash. Either poke phantasm or immobilise for a short amount of time. > > Chrono F skills - still useless trash. > > Crystal sands - lul. define "trash" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necromaniac.7629 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 With chrono getting self shatter back i thought MOST of you would have a more positive energy~yikes :# i'll just not interact much on this forum cause its just depressing and bad energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryxis.6950 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > With chrono getting self shatter back i thought MOST of you would have a more positive energy~yikes :# i'll just not interact much on this forum cause its just depressing and bad energy. the chrono changes are nice when it comes to power chrono (while they did not help condi chrono in the slightest) and i think we can aknowledge that. That said having no self shatter wasn't the only problem with chrono and new problems are going to arise following this post. Mesmer is already really squishy so a mesmer with no access to distorsion is going to be really easy to focus. You also have to remember that chrono wasn't everything wrong with mesmer as of now. Core mesmer is not great and mirage isn't any better, so just buffing chrono is not enough, especially when some classes such as necromancer and engineer, which were already in a decent spots, are getting considerable buffs for every single of their specs. Core mesmer and mirage are going to continue to be lagging behind, and power chrono, while it is going to catch up a bit, is probably still not going to be very strong due to the lack of distorsion, though we'll have to see. So yeah as a power mirage main i'm not really satisfied as i've not been viable in the last 4 months and it seems it's going to keep being that way. Those changes were not enough for any mesmer that is not a power chrono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necromaniac.7629 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > With chrono getting self shatter back i thought MOST of you would have a more positive energy~yikes :# i'll just not interact much on this forum cause its just depressing and bad energy. > > the chrono changes are nice when it comes to power chrono (while they did not help condi chrono in the slightest) and i think we can aknowledge that. That said having no self shatter wasn't the only problem with chrono and new problems are going to arise following this post. Mesmer is already really squishy so a mesmer with no access to distorsion is going to be really easy to focus. > > You also have to remember that chrono wasn't everything wrong with mesmer as of now. Core mesmer is not great and mirage isn't any better, so just buffing chrono is not enough, especially when some classes such as necromancer and engineer, which were already in a decent spots, are getting considerable buffs for every single of their specs. Core mesmer and mirage are going to continue to be lagging behind, and power chrono, while it is going to catch up a bit, is probably still not going to be very strong due to the lack of distorsion, though we'll have to see. So yeah as a power mirage main i'm not really satisfied as i've not been viable in the last 4 months and it seems it's going to keep being that way. Those changes were not enough for any mesmer that is not a power chrono I mean they can't fix chrono and mirage or mesmer in general all in the same patch and did you see my previous posts before the one you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryxis.6950 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Also just to explain a bit more why we're disappointed : we've been waiting for mirage changes for four months now, since it is rather weak. Anet made 3 changes. Out of those 3 changes, all of them are pointless. It's like they've missed the mark on purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryxis.6950 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > @"Gryxis.6950" said: > > > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > > With chrono getting self shatter back i thought MOST of you would have a more positive energy~yikes :# i'll just not interact much on this forum cause its just depressing and bad energy. > > > > the chrono changes are nice when it comes to power chrono (while they did not help condi chrono in the slightest) and i think we can aknowledge that. That said having no self shatter wasn't the only problem with chrono and new problems are going to arise following this post. Mesmer is already really squishy so a mesmer with no access to distorsion is going to be really easy to focus. > > > > You also have to remember that chrono wasn't everything wrong with mesmer as of now. Core mesmer is not great and mirage isn't any better, so just buffing chrono is not enough, especially when some classes such as necromancer and engineer, which were already in a decent spots, are getting considerable buffs for every single of their specs. Core mesmer and mirage are going to continue to be lagging behind, and power chrono, while it is going to catch up a bit, is probably still not going to be very strong due to the lack of distorsion, though we'll have to see. So yeah as a power mirage main i'm not really satisfied as i've not been viable in the last 4 months and it seems it's going to keep being that way. Those changes were not enough for any mesmer that is not a power chrono > > I mean they can't fix chrono and mirage or mesmer in general all in the same patch and did you see my previous posts before the one you quoted. i've answered to your first and last message but not to your second one, so I will just do that here (also look at my previous message while you're reading this one i think it's relevant to what you just said). I think we can all agree that something trash is something that is just plain bad and your comment is actually more in the line of "why do you think those are trash". I personally don't think everything he said was trash (tho to me, the phantasmal swordsman definitely is and maybe crystal sands too) but i'll try to explain anyway. So phantasmal swordsman is pretty much an immobile phantasm that deals 8 hit in 2 seconds. It deals a lot of damage in pve, and way less in pvp/wvw, even when hitting all of its attack. That said realistically it's never going to deal more than 3 hits to anyone above silver (unless stunned) since it takes so much time for its attack to complete, and people can just dodge or walk away. So it is going to deal around the 2k mark, as an ability that is purely offensive and has a 1s cast, assuming your opponent has a medium amount of reflexes. Doesn't seem any better than an auto attack to me so I'd argue it's trash. Crystal sands is a competence that creates 6 shards(?) that converge into a chosen point to create a mirror. So there are two aspects in this skill. the shards and the mirror. The shards are irrelevant, considering they have an extremely small hitbox and it is very rare than more than one hit. That only leaves the second aspect of the skill which is the mirror. Now a mirror sounds useful on paper, it's a dodge that slightly damages foes around you and apply weakness. The damage and weakness radius is quite small but the reason why mirrors are not good is because they are extremely predictable. If your opponent is good you cannot dodge something worth dodging with a mirror because he will just see you're going to go on a mirror and just hold back his important skills. So basically crystal sands can only really be used as a .75s where you will be left alone and you can cast a free ambush, which would be pretty cool if you didn't have to give up an utility slot for this. So yeah kinda trash aswell. So the shatters is the part i kinda disagree with. I do not think they are trash tho i get where they are coming from. All of the chronos shatter (besides the f4 which is different fromthe core) are worse versions of the core shatters if not played correctly. Plus the lack of distorsion which really handicaps the chrono. I think you're really underestimating how essential distorsion is (as it is the only reason why there is still a somewhat viable mesmer build, which is condi mirage with illusion signet to refresh the disto). Mesmer, specifically the power and not mirage one, almost as squishy as a thief and has way less tools to defend itself, the reason why it can survive is because distorsion is very strong so chrono will still be really vulnerable. Played correctly I think it will have potential so that's where i disagree with them, but it will need its team to support it in case it gets focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables.4659 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > "Inspiring Distortion: This trait will now also trigger when activating Shatter skill 4" ok so that means mesmer definitely is getting back f4 distortion although they didnt blatantly say it right? It doesn't mean that were getting distortion back. They said in the post that they're updating the language in regard to traits that interact with f1-f5 skills to avoid confusion between specs with different names for those skills. They seem to be giving Chrono Illusionary Persona (dry shatters) and doubling down on the removal of distortion. When it says that it will also trigger when activating shatter skill 4, it means exactly that. On Core and Mirage, it activates with distortion. On Chrono, it activates with Cont. Split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 hope swordman phantasm will hit (even) more like sword ambush now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I wonder when they’re going to address: - Illusion survivability, pathing, etc. and general shatter mechanics (refer to illusion/shatter rework threads) - Group support: support options for core that were gutted because of chrono, and wells for chrono. Glamours. - Broken chrono interactions: csplit, chronophantasma and/or slow - Mirage-specific shatters (provides another venue for balance without axing core/core aspects like dodge all the time). Having non-core shatters be something other than a minor alteration of core shatters (post-patch chrono F1-F3 shatters could quite easily be changed back into core shatters, why have them be different at all?) So, another 4 months? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > Phantasmal swordsman - way better but still trash. Either poke phantasm or immobilise for a short amount of time. > > > > Chrono F skills - still useless trash. > > > > Crystal sands - lul. > > define "trash" Trash as in phantasm swordsman will still miss the entire chain with a sidestep, F skills are just ridiculously better on core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros.8249 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Continuum Split: This skill has a 1.5-second duration with no clones. 1.5 seconds is added per clone shattered. This skill no longer grants distortion. So we will have 1,5 more for cs? or we can have the same duration as now with one less close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > chrono pve buffs, still bad in pvp. > > no other pvp changes -> mesmer still the king of being kitten. > > reroll engi/necro/rev and have fun, im kitten off to play other kitten. > > you could have had a little more positive attitude though since as though the MAIN drama was not being able to shatter with clones but boom, me no get what me want me dont care why would I have positive attitude ? hey my class is garbage in pvp, I have waited half a year for it to remain garbage. you see those op as fuck classes? they get buffed, but thats ok. Remain positive, im SUUUURE that if I wait ANOTHER half a year things will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoci.2481 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 6 seconds with 3 clones up, just like now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > With chrono getting self shatter back i thought MOST of you would have a more positive energy~yikes :# i'll just not interact much on this forum cause its just depressing and bad energy. Look at the timescales - it's taken a year to (presumably gather enough "data"...) decide to revert Chrono, and most stuff in this patch is changing affected elements. One phantasm was addressed when there's clearly there's others that need improvements - and the pace as always is such that both Half Life 3 and Star Citizen will be fully released before many of the various class balance changes are fully realised in gw2. I suppose there is either a serious disconnect with what we as players perceive in terms of how much time it takes to make any one of these changes (including discussion and changing code etc) and how much time it seems to take in reality - or there simply isn't that much time dedicated to balance/changes/improvements. That's taking into account Lockdown for the last few months. I don't work in this field, but would be interesting to know from anyone who has an insight, how much time they imagine it would take to both decide on and implement these few changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavros.8249 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Yoci.2481" said: > 6 seconds with 3 clones up, just like now. Yes u are right. It was giving the first clone 3s instead of 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 The first F1 hit from chrono will do approximately 70% of the core shatter dmg the second hit will do 40% of the core shatter damage. How do you come to the conclusion that Power chrono got buffed? Because he has now IP and can wombocombo out of stealth with CS? The burst is lower I tested at the target golem with zerker amulet, +175 power from rune and mental anguish: With 1 clone up, F1 crit with round about 2800, uncrit 1400. If we now go by the new patch (with IP) the damage looks like the following: Core: **dmg_total** = 2800 * 2 = **5600** Chrono: **dmg_total** = 2 * 2800 * 0,7 + 2 * 2800 * 0,4 = **6160** BUT Chrono has to get 4 critical hits to achieve this damage. If only 1 out of 4 hits do not crit: Chrono: **dmg_total with only one critical hit in the last 2 hits** = 2 * 2800 * 0,7 + 2800 * 0,4 + 1400 * 0,4 = **5600** Chrono: **dmg_total with only one critical hit in the first 2 hits** = 2800 * 0,7 + 1400 * 0,7 + 2 * 2800 * 0,4 = **5180** You will do the same, if not even less damage then before. PLUS the damage is one second delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoci.2481 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 You guys should stop qqing, these changes to chrono are fkn great! Except for the fact that they didnt rework chronophantasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Yoci.2481" said: > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"Yoci.2481" said: > > > How does it even work? Do the clones stay alive between the first and the second hit? What if they are cleaved? > > > > Im positive they wont need to stay alive. Though question is if it will be like pulmonary impact or a second aoe strike. > > To be speculative, I assume that it will be like CP, first strike, summoned again, second strike. > > > The purpose of this change is to remove stealth oneshots by adding the delay. It will still be good for other situations, for example teamfights. > > Yeah we all understand what the purpose is, this will not change the fact that it is a nerf right now. „It will still be good“ implies that it IS good in teamfights right now wich is not the case. Not to talk about the problem that chrono has to take Illusion and domination traitline to maintain a higher damage then core on its burst. This is by far a bigger problem because you have to take 2 offensive traitlines as chrono. Where do you get your condi remove from? Where do you get your defense in generell from? Thief will counter chrono even harder with this change. Think about it, how are you supposed to defend yourself agains a thief if not even the burst you do can harm him. Highly doubt it will summon clones twice. You are comparing chrono to domi/duel/illu mesmer which is frankly dumb since core has ONLY damage whereas chrono gets more of everything. Superspeed shatters alone is huge and makes chrono shatter way better than core, let alone the free movespeed and the lower cooldowns on literally every single skill. Condi chrono will prob be insp illu and power chrono domi duel Yeah thief will always counter squishy mes but you can run some semiaids insp condi vs thief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MesmerizedNYC.2479 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Well shiver me timbers, a chrono reversion! Well thanks Anet I know we qq alot here and some of the trade offs are, uh, interesting.... but this is still a positive movement. Gonna dust off that build slot for Chrono and see if I can make somehting out this for wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoci.2481 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Well in some way it's a smart change. It reduces "one shot" damage while not changing dps much. I would be fine with this being applied to all Mesmer builds even IF they address the other issues Mesmer face in WvW and PvP. Lack of mobility, lack of sustain. Glassy burst builds with stealth don't exist because every Mesmer player is a meme troll. They exist because it is the only way to play power Mesmer. You can not go toe to toe bruiser style against anyone as Mesmer. They will all shrug off your mediocre dps and outsustain you. They do more damage and have more toys. All power Mesmer play today is: Burst kite kite kite burst kite kite kite stealth burst. If they can't deal with that they die and you win. If they negate/absorb your burst or don't let you kite/stealth they win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"necromaniac.7629" said: > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > Phantasmal Swordsman: The phantasm is now summoned based on the target's location rather than the mesmer's > > > > Oh boi I'm gonna have so much fun with this > > Uh, little confused does that mean the phantasm will just spawn right at your target now instead of running towards it if you're far away? That's right, no more sword 5 being randomly killed while walking through the crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obliviscaris.6937 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I was very pleased until I read that Chrono F4 doesn't apply distortion. What kind a fucking joke is this meant to be? I'm still happy to keep wiping the floor with people as a core Mesmer, but otherwise; Mirages in PvP are a meme, and Chronomancers are a free kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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