New (no) Leaderboards Maybe

[Khalisto.5780]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109745/you-should-not-be-able-to-drop-out-of-your-current-ranking-bracket-no-matter-what

 

this post kinda brought me a lot of ideas how to maybe fix metagaming through leaderboards changes

 

bringing new players to pvp is rather hard since the game as whole is shrinking (saying this based on sales graphics)

 

Today we have several problems in matchmaking and poor game quality, most of them due to low pop and a fair bit cuz ppl learn to exploit this low pop and matchmaking algorithm is punishing for high mmr players

 

Low population

Discouraging rating system for top players

metagaming

duo q

 

since low population is out of question for now i will jump to metagaming:

 

To solve this simply get rid of badges when season is happening (you'll be able to check when season ends) and rework the leaderboars to show only the rank and the player name, no win/losses and no ratings and no games played

 

when you reach top 250, 100, 25, 3, 2, 1 then you'll have this badge with your current position, all ppl between 101 and 250 will show the 250 badge and so on

 

you don't know your exact rating, only ppl over 250 will have some hint of their mmr, but you'll never know how high you are, so you'll never be comfortable sitting "afk" in leaderboards, cuz you don't know how far to lose your title you are (yes, most ppl care about it, even if they say they don't)

 

This will prevent metagaming to some extend cuz the highest ppl will also never know how close is the 2nd, 26, 27th etc.

 

 

rating system

 

 

your first 30 matches plays out the way they're now

 

when you get to your 31th match you have a win/loss rating cap

 

-20 for losses

+8 for wins

 

which means you never lose more than 20 and never get less than 8

 

when you reach your 100 game this cap increase/decrease -1/+1 and now you never lose more than 19 and never get less than 9

you get another "buff" every 100 games, so the 200 buff your rating won/lost caps at -18/-10, 300 -17/+11, till you reach -15/+13

 

And to solve the DuoQ problem you only get the benefits above if you play solo, so if you duo q your rating won/lost works normally as it is now (you could actually add -3 rating won if you duo q on top of that) This is mostly cuz high players claim duo q improves match quality (so they can keep their quality in a non(less) exploitable enviroment

 

These 2 last options are a bit delusional, the the leaderboards one is completely doable

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I'd say that DuoQ is the main culprit behind almost all forms of metagaming. If that goes away; whether it gets its own separate queue, or just gets straight up deleted, then nearly every instance of metagaming that currently exists will nearly all go away too. Even if they don't go away entirely, they'd be much harder to pull off in SoloQ than in Solo/DuoQ.

 

I also think that removal or split are the only ways to handle DuoQ. I don't think there's much sense in just removing the rating reward and keeping it in the game. That's just inviting top players to troll people who are actually trying to climb.

 

The leaderboard suggestion sounds g.

 

I agree the rating system needs a overhaul. It's still using the very old system where the only thing that determines rating gain/loss are the people you're matched with/against. It doesn't work well at all in a low pop game that has people of wildly different skill levels going against eachother every other game.

Most games use a system that combines personal contributions, streaks, and rating to determine how much you gain/lose and it's much better that way rather than being totally RNG like Gw2 is. RNG is not a measure of skill.

[Tazer.2157]

No. Keep PvP competitive. A badge is a prestige item, the ladder exists because it gives you an incentive to climb it. There are ways to fix the above mentioned problems of being afk by looking at the average matches played and then ranking them based on that number. That way the ones with 20-30 games are not placed in the list. When you climb the ladder from gold to platinum you feel good and you keep playing to get the top badge. If badges, current mmr, win/loss rate are taken away where is the incentive to play? It will feel like playing unranked. You will not really care about winning or losing games because there is no indication of you ever winning or losing.

[Grimjack.8130]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> I'd say that DuoQ is the main culprit behind almost all forms of metagaming. If that goes away; whether it gets its own separate queue, or just gets straight up deleted, then nearly every instance of metagaming that currently exists will nearly all go away too. Even if they don't go away entirely, they'd be much harder to pull off in SoloQ than in Solo/DuoQ.

>

> I also think that removal or split are the only ways to handle DuoQ. I don't think there's much sense in just removing the rating reward and keeping it in the game. That's just inviting top players to troll people who are actually trying to climb.

>

> The leaderboard suggestion sounds g.

>

> I agree the rating system needs a overhaul. It's still using the very old system where the only thing that determines rating gain/loss are the people you're matched with/against. It doesn't work well at all in a low pop game that has people of wildly different skill levels going against eachother every other game.

> Most games use a system that combines personal contributions, streaks, and rating to determine how much you gain/lose and it's much better that way rather than being totally RNG like Gw2 is. RNG is not a measure of skill.

 

No duo queue = more RNG. Duo Queue allows good players to achieve higher than a 50% win ratio more than others and more than they would solo. You contradict yourself so much and you're too blind to see it because you despise duo queue. Unlucky.

[Shiyo.3578]

This is the least competitive PvP system I've played, but I come from games that only allow premade vs premade or 1v1(RTS). Random teammates vs random teammates is all about queue dodging, playing the best class for carrying(not the class you actually ENJOY), queueing at the correct time and always queueing duo.

 

If I want to gain rating and only win, I have specifically play a certain way and only play at certain times, as mentioned above. That isn't fun, I should be able to play however I want(a good build, not memeing) and if I am a good player, my rank should reflect it. However, I'm used to RTS where that's actually accurate, and not this modern moba-style gameplay where 4 random teammates dictate 80% of your success per match.

 

It's basically meta-gaming the system and not actually a ladder where the absolute best players are on top.

It's why matches are so one-sided so often, people know exactly when they have to queue and avoid queueing otherwise. The current system actively discourages you to queue and play so you end up where 95% of the time you're absolutely going to tank your rating if you queue, so you just...don't. You can't just log on and play the game whenever you want and expect to gain rating if you play well and better than your enemy.

 

The system is bad. Really, really, really bad.

[Khalisto.5780]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> This is the least competitive PvP system I've played, but I come from games that only allow premade vs premade or 1v1(RTS). Random teammates vs random teammates is all about queue dodging, playing the best class for carrying(not the class you actually ENJOY), queueing at the correct time and always queueing duo.

>

> If I want to gain rating and only win, I have specifically play a certain way and only play at certain times, as mentioned above. That isn't fun, I should be able to play however I want(a good build, not memeing) and if I am a good player, my rank should reflect it. However, I'm used to RTS where that's actually accurate, and not this modern moba-style gameplay where 4 random teammates dictate 80% of your success per match.

>

> It's basically meta-gaming the system and not actually a ladder where the absolute best players are on top.

> It's why matches are so one-sided so often, people know exactly when they have to queue and avoid queueing otherwise. The current system actively discourages you to queue and play so you end up where 95% of the time you're absolutely going to tank your rating if you queue, so you just...don't. You can't just log on and play the game whenever you want and expect to gain rating if you play well and better than your enemy.

>

> The system is bad. Really, really, really bad.

 

It's not the system

 

It's the low population

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> No duo queue = more RNG. Duo Queue allows good players to achieve higher than a 50% win ratio more than others and more than they would solo. You contradict yourself so much and you're too blind to see it because you despise duo queue. Unlucky.

 

Being able to guarantee one singular person to your team doesn't make the rating gains/losses any less RNG.

 

It actually makes it considerably more RNG if you go by rating alone, because the other 3 people on your team are usually going to be low-rating if you DuoQ as the top two players in the game. If the way rating was awarded was anything other than complete RNG like it is, that would actually be a huge benefit to "good players" as you put them.

 

Even though I was only talking about that there, DuoQ still makes matchmaking more RNG.

SoloQing like nearly everyone else? Better get on your knees and start PRAYING ? to them RNGods that the game puts the legendary DuoQ on your team, otherwise the entire game is pretty much a boring mulligan.

Same goes for DuoQing for fun rather than for a straight numbers advantage. Nothing near the same.

 

DuoQ is anti-fun so i'm anti-DuoQ. I am not unlucky because it finally gave me an excuse to stop wasting time in Ranked.

Stay blessed.

[Grimjack.8130]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > No duo queue = more RNG. Duo Queue allows good players to achieve higher than a 50% win ratio more than others and more than they would solo. You contradict yourself so much and you're too blind to see it because you despise duo queue. Unlucky.

>

> Being able to guarantee one singular person to your team doesn't make the rating gains/losses any less RNG.

>

> It actually makes it considerably more RNG if you go by rating alone, because the other 3 people on your team are usually going to be low-rating if you DuoQ as the top two players in the game. If the way rating was awarded was anything other than complete RNG like it is, that would actually be a huge benefit to "good players" as you put them.

>

> Even though I was only talking about that there, DuoQ still makes matchmaking more RNG.

> SoloQing like nearly everyone else? Better get on your knees and start PRAYING ? to them RNGods that the game puts the legendary DuoQ on your team, otherwise the entire game is pretty much a boring mulligan.

> Same goes for DuoQing for fun rather than for a straight numbers advantage. Nothing near the same.

>

> DuoQ is anti-fun so i'm anti-DuoQ. I am not unlucky because it finally gave me an excuse to stop wasting time in Ranked.

> Stay blessed.

 

I solo queue up to 1750 every season on 3-4 accounts per season, sounds like a player skill issue you're blaming on Duo Q

[wevh.2903]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> This is the least competitive PvP system I've played, but I come from games that only allow premade vs premade or 1v1(RTS). Random teammates vs random teammates is all about queue dodging, playing the best class for carrying(not the class you actually ENJOY), queueing at the correct time and always queueing duo.

>

> If I want to gain rating and only win, I have specifically play a certain way and only play at certain times, as mentioned above. That isn't fun, I should be able to play however I want(a good build, not memeing) and if I am a good player, my rank should reflect it. However, I'm used to RTS where that's actually accurate, and not this modern moba-style gameplay where 4 random teammates dictate 80% of your success per match.

>

> It's basically meta-gaming the system and not actually a ladder where the absolute best players are on top.

> It's why matches are so one-sided so often, people know exactly when they have to queue and avoid queueing otherwise. The current system actively discourages you to queue and play so you end up where 95% of the time you're absolutely going to tank your rating if you queue, so you just...don't. You can't just log on and play the game whenever you want and expect to gain rating if you play well and better than your enemy.

>

> The system is bad. Really, really, really bad.

 

Xdd dude u r full of jokes , if ur good u climn if ur not u dont there is always the same ppl on top

[Avatar.3568]

> @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > > No duo queue = more RNG. Duo Queue allows good players to achieve higher than a 50% win ratio more than others and more than they would solo. You contradict yourself so much and you're too blind to see it because you despise duo queue. Unlucky.

> >

> > Being able to guarantee one singular person to your team doesn't make the rating gains/losses any less RNG.

> >

> > It actually makes it considerably more RNG if you go by rating alone, because the other 3 people on your team are usually going to be low-rating if you DuoQ as the top two players in the game. If the way rating was awarded was anything other than complete RNG like it is, that would actually be a huge benefit to "good players" as you put them.

> >

> > Even though I was only talking about that there, DuoQ still makes matchmaking more RNG.

> > SoloQing like nearly everyone else? Better get on your knees and start PRAYING ? to them RNGods that the game puts the legendary DuoQ on your team, otherwise the entire game is pretty much a boring mulligan.

> > Same goes for DuoQing for fun rather than for a straight numbers advantage. Nothing near the same.

> >

> > DuoQ is anti-fun so i'm anti-DuoQ. I am not unlucky because it finally gave me an excuse to stop wasting time in Ranked.

> > Stay blessed.

>

> I solo queue up to 1750 every season on 3-4 accounts per season, sounds like a player skill issue you're blaming on Duo Q

 

Ah finally a na player can tell that too

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> I solo queue up to 1750 every season on 3-4 accounts per season, sounds like a player skill issue you're blaming on Duo Q

 

When I quit, you were Duo'd with Naru or someone from Team USA nearly every time I ran into you in game.

 

but ok. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I mean the standard for even being in top 250 is steadily dropping every season which is a sign that people are leaving. It may be possible to actually do that now so you got me there fam.

 

My next question is going to be why even bother to argue for it if you don't even use DuoQ to place 3-4 alts so high on the leaderboards every season? ?

[yanniell.1236]

*Coming back after a few months break

*Sees duo queue is still a thing

*Immediately turns around

[Khalisto.5780]

> @"yanniell.1236" said:

> *Coming back after a few months break

> *Sees duo queue is still a thing

> *Immediately turns around

 

Lol, community should group up to troll the duo Qrs