NO Downstate should STAY permanently. - [Merged]

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> by vet players you mean veteran who plays only or mostly gw2, scared to go out of their confort zone blob to learn something new and adapt to the situation?

 

no

 

> they are the ones who play only/mostly bus in WvW and would hate any change that would nerf the bus, make their game experience harder.

 

again, no.

 

You just showed your bias. Congratz.

 

 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Jeydra.4386" said:

> I've played Ele for years and this is certainly a nerf. Keep in mind that the Ele downed skill #2 is the strongest of all the downed state skills, so removing it certainly hurts them.

 

this is a "get better" kind of scenario.

 

 

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> My kill count very much begs to differ. If you AoE rezzers, they will take damage and rez at a reduced speed. If you use your skills wisely, you essentially trigger a chainkill.

> Such things as a "poor attempt" at dealing damage when the enemy is losing players doesn't exist. If they lose players to AoEs, they're taking damage and want to get out, they wont counter to save a few who went down, and if they do, they rush into more AoE damage that is going to further cost them. Most smart commanders know that, and do Not res downed unless they have the advantage in a fight and can afford to. If you trigger a chain kill, you can easily cut down a zerg to size and lead to your own zerg overtaking theirs with ease. It's been a staple for me with the afforemented two classes : Elementalist fire (geared viper) letting the burning do the job of finishing off downed and the usual fire Power either discourage the larger group (that's what you use Meteor Rain for) and the more focused Firestorm > Flame Burst > Lava Font on the pack of rezzers. It is Ludicrously efficient.

>

> The variant for revenant requires a power hammer, can be coupled with the Renegade elite spec to make use of Citadel Bombardment as an additional AoE. Here you keep the zerg away with Hammer 2, Hammer 3 and Hammer 5 (contrary to belief, zergs do avoid Hammer 5 due to the heavy CC) while using Citadel Bombardment on the rezzers, along with Darkrazor's Daring to actually prevent the rezzers from rezzing -entirely- since it interrupt them constantly. Then adding extra damage to finish whatever's left over with Icerazor's Ire. Hammer 2's area of effect can be aimed to target both rezzers and the zerg as it is a long range AoE and packs a punch.

>

> You may think I've given this too much thoughts considering the lenght I go to to counter Downstate, but as far I recall, WvW is meant to be *tactical*, and I daresay, many people who argument against it probably dont think Enough about it. All the above skills I mentionned can be used in other situations as well. It isn't a niche role, and doesn't require much time, can be coupled with another role, and in general rakes up a ton of kills easily.

 

boonballing and spaming AOE all over the place isn't tactic. just strategicall decision made beforehand, kust like the commmander movement.

i believe you are speaking about bus fights. who in their right mind would try to revive a downed player if he is being bombed?

what i see is dumbed down tactic as poeple go all AOE to secure downed instead of keeping those ability to hurt the enemy bus.

i see way more opportunity in focusing on killing rather than securing downed.

no downstate event should stay way longer than just one week to get better data. right now alot of people are lost in what build they should use or what move the comander should do because there isn't any downed to rally to or focus on.

 

as for roaming and small scale fights it is just as i said in my previous post.

in the end , downstate is an unbalanced gimmick that favor larger groups and rally bot should not exist outside of PvE.

 

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> That's far more due to the 100% Wxp buff than the event. Most non roamer WvW players I have talked to are already bored of the event, simply because it removes a ton of strategy and depth of combat. Some people care about good and fun fights with back and forth, and not just the wxp pop when something dies after the one push.

>

> As far as actual engagements, it mostly benefits the roaming cloud getting some free kills, smaller organized groups getting some kills before dying to a far larger blob (though it is nice when you wipe the blob with half the numbers, hardly an accomplishment though with the disparity in players skill, which was present before), people grouping up even more or otherwise just hiding behind T3 objectives with tons of ACs. Big fun, yes...

 

what tactic? you mean everyone going bunker support and ram into each other to let the number do the damage?

or necro going full braindead AOE spam? i get it, you people like battles of attrition. that's what killed competitive play in PvP. maybe if WvW were more of a PvP game and less of a PvE one more player would play it?

are you really satisfied with the current WvW meta? do you not want something new and fresh everyone can work on?

 

yes it mostly benefit roamers because they usually have a better individual skill and builds to kill or solo survive.

 

> If you want to balance the game mode around the roamers and upper echelon of the player base, that's exactly who you are going to be left with: some roamers and a few "good" players in a dead game mode.

 

well no. WvW will get populated again and even grab the attention of PvP oriented people from other games.

EOTM did go full PvE mode and finally died.

 

the day WvW will be only populated by single bus running around is the day WvW will die for good.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Zok.4956" said:

> I have made a Power-Soulbeast glas cannon (never played ranger or soulbeast in WvW before) just for this event and I have a lot of cheesy fun to PewPew burst down zerg players that have bad position awareness before they know what hit them.

>

> However, the longer this event lasts, the less fun it is for me and I am glad that the removal of downstate is only a temporary change for a week.

>

 

why do you feel like it is becoming boring?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

What this (and in game discussions) boil down to is:

 

Remove downstate: mostly people running cheese buids, playing thief, ranger, mesmer. Claim to be good because they can gank others out of stealth and without the fear of any danger at all.

 

Keep downstate: everybody else.

 

I am fine with removing downstate under the following conditions:

 

Eles get +10k hp

Thief, mesmer, ranger damage gets nerfed by 60%. Maximum stealth: 1s. No blinks.

Holos are removed from the game.

 

Simple stuff. Really.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> well no. WvW will get populated again and even grab the attention of PvP oriented people from other games.

 

I was going to respond to what you wrote, then read this part.

 

If your idea of good balance is first alienating a large part of a modes player base, to then hope that this loss in players will get compensated from other games, there is nothing any one can say or do to argue with such lunacy.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > by vet players you mean veteran who plays only or mostly gw2, scared to go out of their confort zone blob to learn something new and adapt to the situation?

>

> no

>

> > they are the ones who play only/mostly bus in WvW and would hate any change that would nerf the bus, make their game experience harder.

>

> again, no.

>

> You just showed your bias. Congratz.

>

>

 

have you checked? have you asked them? do you know why they say that? do you play with them to see how they play?

it is not bias, it is having an opinion. and since no downedstate directly nerf the survivability of bus and make outnumbering viable where it wasn't before i assume that there is a high chance that those veteran players fall in the category of bus players.

and i know by experience that there was always some old veteran players whinning at every new feature that was added to WvW.

i do remember the time where some got in an uproar because stability was changed. they couldn't be invulnerable to CC anymore and that was enough for them to complain about it instead of understanding why that change was made and play around it.

 

any none bus players who likes fighting would never be against a permanent no downstate. (with some other balance adjustement ofcourse.)

 

 

[Teratus.2859]

It's a double edge sword.

 

On one hand, in Zerg Vs Zerg fights yea, I agree the ability to revive players in Downstate over and over can get annoying and tedious and it can mean two zergs beating their heads against the wall over and over until they decided to quit or one side eventually wins over the other.

 

On the other hand, in smaller skirmishes it is far far far! too easy for just 2-3 players to completely obliterate an equally sized small group or a single player by effectively ganking them out of nowhere with AoE or burst skills while the victims have no chance of aid from their allies since they're dead before they even realize something hit them.

 

Imo I think the best thing would be not to eliminate downstate entirely but nerf the downed penalty safety net.

 

Rather than requiring 4 points of penalty to be insta killed it should be at most 2 points.. and while your in combat in WvW your pentalty timer should not count down and reset either.

So in every battle you get at most 1 downstate, but if you manage a rally and go down again then you die instantly.

 

With that in place players would get very cautious after their first downed state if they managed to survive it.

They could keep fighting and risk getting downed again which would kill them or they could break away from the zerg, break combat and wait around for a minute or two until their downed penalty is gone which weakens the zerg overall anyway and give the enemy an advantage when they manage to push people out of the enemy zerg.

The 60 second refresh timer on downstate should be increased to 2 to 5 minutes as well to make breaking away from combat even more punishing for players that choose to do it, that also includes thieves who love running away like cowards when they're loosing :P

If anything it might actually finally mean that thieves who survive a down and run don't come back which would be wonderful.

 

Ultimately I think this is by far the best option , but even if it was added.. no downstate weeks/weekends should still be a thing now and again just for the hell of it.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> What this (and in game discussions) boil down to is:

>

> Remove downstate: mostly people running cheese buids, playing thief, ranger, mesmer. Claim to be good because they can gank others out of stealth and without the fear of any danger at all.

>

> Keep downstate: everybody else.

>

> I am fine with removing downstate under the following conditions:

>

> Eles get +10k hp

> Thief, mesmer, ranger damage gets nerfed by 60%. Maximum stealth: 1s. No blinks.

> Holos are removed from the game.

>

> Simple stuff. Really.

 

no downstate only damage duels and outnumbered. (bus fight?)

but with a permanent no downstate arenanet could also buf everyones HP, or nerf bursty builds, or do alot of significant changes that, i believe would give some fresh air to WvW.

downstate is a mechanic that exist since the beginning. people are accostumed to it and fear the change.

 

BUT if downstate have to stay there is 3 things i would like to see diapear.

=> rally bot. just delete that mechanic for WvW.

=> reviving downed players while in combat. just make so no one can help a downed except for revive abilities while in battle. no more stupid quick revive from allies faster than you can finish the downed.

=> NERF autoattack. some class like necro have way too muc dps while downed. it is ridiculous. (same for ranger condi bleed spam and mesmer confusion in a small group fight.)

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > > by vet players you mean veteran who plays only or mostly gw2, scared to go out of their confort zone blob to learn something new and adapt to the situation?

> >

> > no

> >

> > > they are the ones who play only/mostly bus in WvW and would hate any change that would nerf the bus, make their game experience harder.

> >

> > again, no.

> >

> > You just showed your bias. Congratz.

> >

> >

>

> have you checked? have you asked them? do you know why they say that? do you play with them to see how they play?

 

Have you? What exactly do you play in this game mode, and in how many communities here are you active/part of?

 

I play all types of WvW content, am part of a GvG guild which also does publics and border roaming as well as listen in to the server community discussions. The main gist of what I have heard so far, was an overwhelming: it's a short time event, glad it will be over after. It makes WvW boring and annoying. So I would be very interested where you are hearing diverging opinions or vastly different perceptions of big parts of the WvW community. It might be a server or region thing.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> any none bus players who likes fighting would never be against a permanent no downstate. (with some other balance adjustement ofcourse.)

 

I could give you multiple reasons which directly contradict this statement. The first and most direct being: the fights are BORING AS FUCK.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > well no. WvW will get populated again and even grab the attention of PvP oriented people from other games.

>

> I was going to respond to what you wrote, then read this part.

>

> If your idea of good balance is first alienating a large part of a modes player base, to then hope that this loss in players will get compensated from other games, there is nothing any one can say or do to argue with such lunacy.

 

most players will stay. only a few, and maybe mostly PvE players will leave (temporarly?). becasue there is no better game with such good combat gameplay and WvW gamemode. (ESO has poor combat gaemplay to really compete with gw2.).

alot of players, me inculded, believed that WvW would die shortly after PvP ESL died after HOT. and WvW did lost players over time. the we still get to WvW and play it.

you realise that WvW is the gameode which had the least updates (and no major update since a long time unless you consider mounts to be major..) from all gw2 gamermodes but players still play it. WvW content outside desert borderland and HOT special features like dragon banner, etc had no new real content update. but we still play it.. we are sturborn. and a change in downedstate will not be the end of WvW.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > > well no. WvW will get populated again and even grab the attention of PvP oriented people from other games.

> >

> > I was going to respond to what you wrote, then read this part.

> >

> > If your idea of good balance is first alienating a large part of a modes player base, to then hope that this loss in players will get compensated from other games, there is nothing any one can say or do to argue with such lunacy.

>

> most players will stay. only a few, and maybe mostly PvE players will leave (temporarly?). becasue there is no better game with such good combat gameplay and WvW gamemode. (ESO has poor combat gaemplay to really compete with gw2.).

 

Having no alternatives is no argument to make a game mode worse for a majority of it's players. Neither is it a good argument that many will stay. Small reminder: WvW was nearly dead January of this year if we go by server population, and the trend was not changing.

 

The rest of your post, not sure how it supports keeping no downstate so nothing I can comment on. Yes, WvW is neglected. We know.

[Mauzi.5892]

> @"jpsssss.7530" said:

> I bet you play a cancer one-shot/nuke build. There are some builds with little to no counterplay options (*cough* thief and ranger *cough) and they always come out of the woodwork on no downstate weeks

 

this is just wrong. I see ranger and thieves ALL THE TIME. It's only during no-downstate-week, that you realize how much you suck, because you can't rally off of some random scrub.

 

I love the no downstate. Maybe people start playing with more caution and brain instead of going full zerk when they have no skill.

 

 

 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

>

> Have you? What exactly do you play in this game mode, and in how many communities here are you active/part of?

>

> I play all types of WvW content, am part of a GvG guild which also does publics and border roaming as well as listen in to the server community discussions. The main gist of what I have heard so far, was an overwhelming: it's a short time event, glad it will be over after. It makes WvW boring and annoying. So I would be very interested where you are hearing diverging opinions or vastly different perceptions of big parts of the WvW community. It might be a server or region thing.

>

 

i did everything like you in the past. not very active nowdays. but i dont' think mindset would have changed that much.

 

>

> I could give you multiple reasons which directly contradict this statement. The first and most direct being: the fights are BORING AS kitten.

 

i find downed gameplay boring and frustrating. i can't 1v2 properly, i can't fight outnumbered, less roamers roaming around due to less impact from them.

no downedstate fix so many issue the current state of WvW have. but hey, i am quite interested in knowing why exactly somep layers find no downed state unfun.

because so far the arguments were :

"i can't use mist as elem to get back to the bus when downed".

"i die too fast against ganker".

"i get spawncamped".

"too many burst build around".

"bus fights are too quick".

"i can't use my revive build to revive people".

"too much pirateship, the commander doesn't go in for melee".

"i can't get revived on the wall why trying to hit the attackers"

...

[Antioche.7034]

> @"Mauzi.5892" said:

> > @"jpsssss.7530" said:

> > I bet you play a cancer one-shot/nuke build. There are some builds with little to no counterplay options (*cough* thief and ranger *cough) and they always come out of the woodwork on no downstate weeks

>

> this is just wrong. I see ranger and thieves ALL THE TIME. It's only during no-downstate-week, that you realize how much you suck, because you can't rally off of some random scrub.

>

> I love the no downstate. Maybe people start playing with more caution and brain instead of going full zerk when they have no skill.

>

>

>

 

Imagine believing randomly getting oneshot by someone from stealth is being bad at the game. If that's what you call "Playing with more brain", no thanks.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> Having no alternatives is no argument to make a game mode worse for a majority of it's players. Neither is it a good argument that many will stay. Small reminder: WvW was nearly dead January of this year if we go by server population, and the trend was not changing.

>

> The rest of your post, not sure how it supports keeping no downstate so nothing I can comment on. Yes, WvW is neglected. We know.

 

i remeber the time when so many players made a rant about stability change in the past. or the change to condi. WvW didn't died because of that. those changes was in fact good for the game.

alot of players continue to play gw2 becasue there is only poor alternative outside. especially true for the WvW cround.

the day a better WvW game will show up, gw2 WvW will just empty up.

the fact that there is no better alternative, players will try to accomodate to the changes no matter what unless those changes are so bad that it prevent you from actually having fun no matter what you do and harm the gamemode.

just the fact that no downstate event happenend more than once means that there is a real demand for it.

 

downstae needs some changes. either get rid of it or nerf it to the ground (downstae, to the ground, huhuhu).

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> >

> > Have you? What exactly do you play in this game mode, and in how many communities here are you active/part of?

> >

> > I play all types of WvW content, am part of a GvG guild which also does publics and border roaming as well as listen in to the server community discussions. The main gist of what I have heard so far, was an overwhelming: it's a short time event, glad it will be over after. It makes WvW boring and annoying. So I would be very interested where you are hearing diverging opinions or vastly different perceptions of big parts of the WvW community. It might be a server or region thing.

> >

>

> i did everything like you in the past. not very active nowdays. but i dont' think mindset would have changed that much.

>

 

In short: you rave about an event, while not even partaking or being in the loop of how the current WvW communities respond to it. At best just going out a bit and getting your gank in. Yet you think your opinion is carried by a majority of the current players?

 

At least you are honest.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > I could give you multiple reasons which directly contradict this statement. The first and most direct being: the fights are BORING AS kitten.

>

> i find downed gameplay boring and frustrating. i can't 1v2 properly, i can't fight outnumbered, less roamers roaming around due to less impact from them.

> no downedstate fix so many issue the current state of WvW have. but hey, i am quite interested in knowing why exactly somep layers find no downed state unfun.

> because so far the arguments were :

> "i can't use mist as elem to get back to the bus when downed".

 

On a class which is literally made useless or requires significant investment for a 1 week event to remain playable as damage dealer. I don't blame any elementalist main who skips this event, even less if they are new to the mode and have no alternative builds.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> "i die too fast against ganker".

 

Yes, lots of fun to die to the full damage burst roamers as a squad class.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> "i get spawncamped".

 

Pretty much impossible to get through 4-5 (stealth) roamers who go full burst and get back to squad. Most players who can't deal with this simply log after 2-3 tries.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> "too many burst build around".

 

That's literally what this mode has devolved to this week. Great fun and build diversity.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> "bus fights are too quick".

> "i can't use my revive build to revive people".

> "too much pirateship, the commander doesn't go in for melee"

> "i can't get revived on the wall why trying to hit the attackers"

> ...

 

Yes, entire segments of build and abilities made useless. You forgot to add: engaging T3 objectives has become very tiresome. The amount of ACs built pretty much instantly reaches the siege cap. Tons of trailing players just unloading into your group, which require regular turn arounds to remove, slowing down smaller squads.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Having no alternatives is no argument to make a game mode worse for a majority of it's players. Neither is it a good argument that many will stay. Small reminder: WvW was nearly dead January of this year if we go by server population, and the trend was not changing.

> >

> > The rest of your post, not sure how it supports keeping no downstate so nothing I can comment on. Yes, WvW is neglected. We know.

>

> i remeber the time when so many players made a rant about stability change in the past. or the change to condi. WvW didn't died because of that. those changes was in fact good for the game.

 

You keep bringing this up. Yet willfully ignore the issue that has come of it: mandatory 1 FB per group, and Arenanet not touching the stability they give, even though it was panned.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> alot of players continue to play gw2 becasue there is only poor alternative outside. especially true for the WvW cround.

> the day a better WvW game will show up, gw2 WvW will just empty up.

 

Yeah, heard that one before.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> the fact that there is no better alternative, players will try to accomodate to the changes no matter what unless those changes are so bad that it prevent you from actually having fun no matter what you do and harm the gamemode.

 

Arguing that bad changes will have no effect is a stupid argument to make.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> just the fact that no downstate event happenend more than once means that there is a real demand for it.

 

Actually, I think a lot of people will come out of this event quite happy about downstate and the way it works. All this event does is reinforce how necessary downstate is for a majority of the players who play this mode more casually.

 

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> downstae needs some changes. either get rid of it or nerf it to the ground (downstae, to the ground, huhuhu).

 

Removal is not the same as change.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> In short: you rave about an event, while not even partaking or being in the loop of how the current WvW communities respond to it. At best just going out a bit and getting your gank in. Yet you think your opinion is carried by a majority of the current players?

>

> At least you are honest.

>

 

so you are saying that, after all these years of no new major (safety net, because mounts are content in a way) content and same old gameplay loop and also some same old veteran players, mindset evolved to a completely different level? i don't believe you.

 

>

> On a class which is literally made useless or requires significant investment for a 1 week event to remain playable as damage dealer. I don't blame any elementalist main who skips this event, even less if they are new to the mode and have no alternative builds.

>

 

elem is considered as the hardest class to master. and you have people frustrated that they can't use mist bility while downed as part of their core gameplay.. something is wrong. elem is in a hard spot and arenanet will rework some of its mechanic or balance some numbers for its sake. (a big forum post was made dedicated to elem balancing and apparently with devs responding to people on it.)

but funny enough, someone on this forum (on this thread?) clamied that he/she was having a great time with his elem with the no downstate event.

i did play some elem a few weeks ago and, while it was hard to have the same impact as other class, i was able to stand ground against most class except guard. maybe some players need to rethink they builds and train their personal skill.

 

>

> Yes, lots of fun to die to the full damage burst roamers as a squad class.

>

 

always was a problem. but before you could just get back up by allies and the burst class could just run away witohut achieving anything.

or you would get killed by a thief with its shadowstep + invisibility combo you can't do anything about.

 

>

> Pretty much impossible to get through 4-5 (stealth) roamers who go full burst and get back to squad. Most players who can't deal with this simply log after 2-3 tries.

>

 

git gud? change you build to try and counter them? use reveal ability? get escorted by pewpew? kill a thief that will not get odwned then invisible and revived by a fellow theif?

that was something anyone would saw often in the early years of WvW. you could see anything before. now you only see bus and lost roamers.

 

>

> That's literally what this mode has devolved to this week. Great fun and build diversity.

>

 

but you know, even with downsated any one can do that. there was no balance patch, no buff or nerf. its just that one frustating mechanic aka downstae would render any form of burst gameplay useless in the long run. thats why most roamers play condi. this event had made player play power builds instead of condi.

 

>

> Yes, entire segments of build and abilities made useless. You forgot to add: engaging T3 objectives has become very tiresome. The amount of ACs built pretty much instantly reaches the siege cap. Tons of trailing players just unloading into your group, which require regular turn arounds to remove, slowing down smaller squads.

>

 

i forgot the "WvW is less tactical without downed state"

if players would create a little squad to keep theirmain fort under attack so they can't use the teleport while you bus is grinding away the T3 and revived the dead players with out of combat players then you would push. instead of mono balling and praying that it will wrok like always.

 

there was also the "downstate is a core gw2 mechanic so it has to stay. witohut it the game become soulless".

that one was a big load of BS.

 

all revive abilities were made useless since there was no balance coming with this event. this should eventually be fixed if it goes permanent.

 

>

> You keep bringing this up. Yet willfully ignore the issue that has come of it: mandatory 1 FB per group, and Arenanet not touching the stability they give, even though it was panned.

>

 

FB came out with POF. stab change came.. before HOT? i don't remember well ^^ but it is an old update.

here's the difference. FB is one class with specific mechanic. changing stab impact the whole game and all class.

 

>

> Yeah, heard that one before.

>

 

...and still no good WvW games. gw2 did get alot of new players when those players got burnout from other MMORPG or to boycot a bad expac from WOW or whatever.

like, when Bless online came out it was such a scam that alot of players wanted to find a quick alternative and came to gw2.

i spoke to some WOW player on a twitch stream while they were discovering gw2 for the first time (this month. so it is pretty recent). they said that GW2 felt like a nice breeze of fresh air where you can just play at your pace. they like that gw2 was different from all mmorpg they have played before.

gw2 benefit from having no other game like it ALOT.

 

>

> Arguing that bad changes will have no effect is a stupid argument to make.

>

 

this will be a good change, not a bad one. and what i am saying is that, if the change is bad, if it is not bad enough, people will still stay and play the game for the reasons i mentionned.

 

>

> Actually, I think a lot of people will come out of this event quite happy about downstate and the way it works. All this event does is reinforce how necessary downstate is for a majority of the players who play this mode more casually.

>

 

only those who firmly believe that downstate should stay as it is. there is alot of example of people changing their mind about downstate after experiencing this event.

 

>

> Removal is not the same as change.

 

it is still a change. and a big one at that. but i am not blind. downedstate is an arenanet thing. it will be hard for them to suddenly decide to erase that mechanic completely. but they can balance it. completely removing rally bot and revinving downed while in battle could be a good start.

then maybe rebalance some class donwstate autoattack. (necro, cough cough, ranger cough, cough, ...)

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I dont see what all the fuss is about. The pros and cons of downstate are very simple.

Pros of downstate:

- Your friends can rez you in combat when you mess up

- Some classes have op downstate skills

- Noobs get ganked about 5 seconds slower

 

Cons of downstate:

- Makes 1vX fights exponentially more difficult

- Makes support classes in small scale incredibly powerful

- Turns many large scale fights into rally wars

 

To summarize: If you are someone who always needs to be combat rezzed, then downstate is good for you. If not, then no downstate is better. If im being honest, gw2 has heavily catered to the most casual of players and it shows. Wvw downstate is one of the cheesiest cheat death mechanics ive seen in any competitive game. Downstate was designed for 5v5 conquest, wvw would be fine without it.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > Why are you all so obsessed with these things? Why don't you like fighting?

> > >

> > > The secret is they _don't like fighting. They only like winning._

> > >

> > > And no downstate week allows winning with the most kitten one shot builds by sniping into zerg tails. This week is gankers dream.

> > >

> > > No downstate week should only be permanent if you mean to kill WvW as thoroughly as they already killed the PvP ESports dream.

> > >

> >

> > 1. There are a TON of people in wvw this week, hate to break it too you bud.

>

> That's far more due to the 100% Wxp buff than the event. Most non roamer WvW players I have talked to are already bored of the event, simply because it removes a ton of strategy and depth of combat. Some people care about good and fun fights with back and forth, and not just the wxp pop when something dies after the one push.

>

> As far as actual engagements, it mostly benefits the roaming cloud getting some free kills, smaller organized groups getting some kills before dying to a far larger blob (though it is nice when you wipe the blob with half the numbers, hardly an accomplishment though with the disparity in players skill, which was present before), people grouping up even more or otherwise just hiding behind T3 objectives with tons of ACs. Big fun, yes...

>

> If you want to balance the game mode around the roamers and upper echelon of the player base, that's exactly who you are going to be left with: some roamers and a few "good" players in a dead game mode.

 

And thats exactly the same reason why raiding is the smallest portion of this playerbase. So turnabout is fair play, people complain for the sake of complaining and honestly downstate removes any consequences for being bad in any sense of the word. I've died a lot this week but Im still enjoying the gameplay loop a whole lot more than I do with down state; Because I know its easier to see outliers with no downstate of which need to be nerfed than it is when you have a crutch that pretends to be there for the playerbases benefit.. (Its there to justify some horrid builds, that should not exist.)> @"Antioche.7034" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > Why are you all so obsessed with these things? Why don't you like fighting?

> > > >

> > > > The secret is they _don't like fighting. They only like winning._

> > > >

> > > > And no downstate week allows winning with the most kitten one shot builds by sniping into zerg tails. This week is gankers dream.

> > > >

> > > > No downstate week should only be permanent if you mean to kill WvW as thoroughly as they already killed the PvP ESports dream.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1. There are a TON of people in wvw this week, hate to break it too you bud.

> >

> > That's far more due to the 100% Wxp buff than the event. Most non roamer WvW players I have talked to are already bored of the event, simply because it removes a ton of strategy and depth of combat. Some people care about good and fun fights with back and forth, and not just the wxp pop when something dies after the one push.

> >

> > As far as actual engagements, it mostly benefits the roaming cloud getting some free kills, smaller organized groups getting some kills before dying to a far larger blob (though it is nice when you wipe the blob with half the numbers, hardly an accomplishment though with the disparity in players skill, which was present before), people grouping up even more or otherwise just hiding behind T3 objectives with tons of ACs. Big fun, yes...

> >

> > If you want to balance the game mode around the roamers and upper echelon of the player base, that's exactly who you are going to be left with: some roamers and a few "good" players in a dead game mode.

>

> Exactly this, people are here because of WvW booster, because almost everybody hates farming GoB for legendaries, so they can use this week to spend less time in WvW.

 

Make it so you can get gift of battle from strikes/raids so that those who dont like PvP never have to play those game modes? Likewise put all the rewards from those two modes into WvW as a reward track so I never have to do them? Seems fair.

[subversiontwo.7501]

**Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

 

Carry on B)

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

>

> Carry on B)

 

Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

 

Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

> >

> > Carry on B)

>

> Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

>

> Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

 

Downstate is an issue for zerg fights, but not in duels or small skirmishes.

 

I think it best to nerf downed penalty so you can only get downed once per skirmish.

Atm you can die 3 times before you insta death on a defeat, change that to 1 in WvW and stop the penalty timer from counting down while your in combat.

 

This would fix your res zerging problem, either players who got rally would continue fighting so you could focus and kill them instantly if you down them again or they'd have to coward out of the battle to wait for the penalty to go away reducing the enemy's numbers and if they hang about the battle planning to rejoin after a few mins they leave themselves open to be ambushed by a few of your thieves or deadeyes or something that can gank em from stealth and assassinate them.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

>

> Downstate is an issue for zerg fights, but not in duels or small skirmishes.

>

 

huh what?. of course it is not an issue for 1v1...

but it is in small scale fights, especially if one group has a support that can revive a downed fast. small skirmishes can be 2v4 too. or 3v6. or any small scale outnumbered. downed state has always been a problem for a long time. but even more now than before since you could fasten a finisher with celerity which you can't anymore.

 

 

> I think it best to nerf downed penalty so you can only get downed once per skirmish.

> Atm you can die 3 times before you insta death on a defeat, change that to 1 in WvW and stop the penalty timer from counting down while your in combat.

>

 

that is a good suggestion, getting the no downed penalty for X minutes right after a revive. until you come back via normal means.

 

> This would fix your res zerging problem, either players who got rally would continue fighting so you could focus and kill them instantly if you down them again or they'd have to coward out of the battle to wait for the penalty to go away reducing the enemy's numbers and if they hang about the battle planning to rejoin after a few mins they leave themselves open to be ambushed by a few of your thieves or deadeyes or something that can gank em from stealth and assassinate them.

 

rally bot should not exist outside PvE.

 

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"ledernierrempart.6871" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> >

> > Downstate is an issue for zerg fights, but not in duels or small skirmishes.

> >

>

> huh what?. of course it is not an issue for 1v1...

> but it is in small scale fights, especially if one group has a support that can revive a downed fast. small skirmishes can be 2v4 too. or 3v6. or any small scale outnumbered. downed state has always been a problem for a long time. but even more now than before since you could fasten a finisher with celerity which you can't anymore.

>

 

Ahh I was thinking more along the lines of 3v3-5v5-10v10 etc small skirmishes.

Pretty much any situation where you are outnumbered you are going to be at a big disadvantage in general.

But if there was only 1 downed per battle then yeah you could even those numbers pretty quickly with skillful play so it would help there too.

 

> > I think it best to nerf downed penalty so you can only get downed once per skirmish.

> > Atm you can die 3 times before you insta death on a defeat, change that to 1 in WvW and stop the penalty timer from counting down while your in combat.

> >

>

> that is a good suggestion, getting the no downed penalty for X minutes right after a revive. until you come back via normal means.

>

 

Yeah it goes away on a full death or X minutes after you leave combat you died in.. atm it's 60 seconds CD for a point to vanish, I think that should be buffed to 2 or 5 mins in WvW just to discourage people from breaking off and waiting for the penalty to go away.

They still could but then they're leaving their team a man down for several minutes..

 

> > This would fix your res zerging problem, either players who got rally would continue fighting so you could focus and kill them instantly if you down them again or they'd have to coward out of the battle to wait for the penalty to go away reducing the enemy's numbers and if they hang about the battle planning to rejoin after a few mins they leave themselves open to be ambushed by a few of your thieves or deadeyes or something that can gank em from stealth and assassinate them.

>

> rally bot should not exist outside PvE.

>

 

Wouldn't be a problem with the 1 downed then death change :) can only rally once be that being revived or from an enemy death, next time you gon die lol

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

The 5-6 man blue group I solo fended off hills a few hours ago would have beaten me if it not had been for no downstate. KEEP NO DOWNSTATE :)