So What's the point of Scourge in WvW now?

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > @"Sombike.6291" said:

> > > > Not to self promote or anything, but this fight was one of many from yesterday ... and I'd say Scourge is still top dog in wvw, even after the NEEDED nerfs to the class!

> > >

> > > I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're providing in that situation. You're not doing a lot of damage and you're not beating the boons even close. It looks to me like the firebrand is doing all the labor while you are getting a free ride. Doesn't even look like you're providing much support either.

> >

> > What else would you expect of a zerg feist? It's just a large group of players mowing down another, no real subtility or player skill involved except for the lead. Scourge is still of value in there but not as overwhelmingly valuable than it was previously.

>

> I think they'd have been better off running core necromancer personally. More striking power and they offer up some valuable debuffs. That boon spam though is just awful. Its one of the aspects I despise about WvW. Both sides had almost permanent all boon uptime and its just a clash of whose the most booned.

 

Which is the reason scourge is played. Boons are literally everything when it comes to WvW, and the reason necro and its respective corruption has been the only consistent blob play class in the meta since the game's launch aside from Guardian, which has been the major contributor in area boon coverage and group sustain. As soon as you stop corrupting, the opposition and meta gets to shift its play towards being more selfish as well or focus on raw healing power sustain rather than boon coverage, meaning less of a need for stacking boons and just playing into raw damage or defenses. Boons and mass corruption are a cyclical problem that can only be resolved by nerfing both hard, otherwise the imbalance just shifts to a different dynamic.

 

The power here is also why I've advocated for PvP-esque encounter design for years in order to help necromancer out, instead of just bigger and badder AoE circles and obtuse mechanics. Necromancer becomes top tier if the PvE encounters start reflecting PvP environments, because it's absolutely dominant in opponent control and boon denial in situations where the opposition starts turtling hard through boons or can be corrupted and controlled as such. Necro doesn't strictly need high damage to be viable. It needs to be performative in the areas it's good at. As long as it works as an enabler for more damage, it'll be viable.

 

Core shroud is useless in ZvZ outside of just doing nothing and turtling after wells go down because Life Blast just cleaves your own side since most large groups have permanent projectile reflection, and core necro also offers no group utility which Scourge doesn't, and cannot be healed during major bombs when in shroud. Remember, everything about PvP in GW2 is winning the sustain fight (which is why core is dominant now), especially in this meta that's so slowed down where people can't be bursted out in aggressive, preliminary strikes. Having 30 supports will keep 50 people alive and make it way harder to prioritize targets in a large group where everyone supports a little bit. People who go down/die during bombs usually just get bad RNG from the skill target cap/assignment when within in the AoE, and the entire goal of playing a boonball and heal/barrier spam crew is to outlive the bomb and grind a few players down at a time through lots of numbers hitting a small number of targets, rather than solely raw stats.

[Anchoku.8142]

With damage on skills with control effects nerfed into the ground, will Arenanet target boon and condition duration on skills with direct (power) damage, next? Something like starting with 80% as a common factor for all boon and conditon up-time and see how it plays out in the meta.

 

That seems like low-hanging fruit if Arenanet wants to dampen the boon-party and condi-pressure.

[Yasai.3549]

Yu still need Scourges, or Necros for that matter to Boon Corrupt.

 

Scourges still good because they can still drop a Shade down from 900. range and use their skills from that safe range in addition to Staff poking.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

>

> As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

 

A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

> >

> > As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

>

> A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

 

Go play engineer for a while and you'll reassign your f keys.

[Anchoku.8142]

Consider using a programmable keypad like Razer's Orbweaver.

[jpsssss.7530]

or get a mouse with more than 2 buttons...

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

> > >

> > > As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

> >

> > A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

>

> Go play engineer for a while and you'll reassign your f keys.

 

At least will feel that F keys aka toolbelt on engie makes more sense :open_mouth:

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

> > > >

> > > > As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

> > >

> > > A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

> >

> > Go play engineer for a while and you'll reassign your f keys.

>

> At least will feel that F keys aka toolbelt on engie makes more sense :open_mouth:

 

Yeah. Though most engi builds have you playing keyboard.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

 

You must be kidding, right?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

>

> You must be kidding, right?

 

scourge was the cherry on top of a flood of iceream the aoe needed to be reduced, game has already alot of aoe, anythign else similiar to what scourge was/IS to the game will actually be a bad thing, most future specs will have to be more like core specs to avoid that, can have SOME aoe but keep it simple.

 

Scourge was always a bad addon to the game :) i would prefer the F keys from scourge transforming some conditions into barrier and alies barrer into certain conditions,.

F1 would be the aoe wich would be barrier pulse and then the other F keys would the what manipulates the dropped field, players would F1 then F something depending what they need, one of the F could even be a dome pulse to make ranger timing well their range than 11111«, could still counter scourge but by skill and timming rather than easy range.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

 

lmao, that's just obviously false.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

 

You probably meant:

Scourge was never **a** good **solo roamer** in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf.

 

Unfortunately:

Scourge was ~~never~~ good in wvw **zergling** it needed ~~a buff anet not~~ a nerf

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

> > > > >

> > > > > As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

> > > >

> > > > A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

> > >

> > > Go play engineer for a while and you'll reassign your f keys.

> >

> > At least will feel that F keys aka toolbelt on engie makes more sense :open_mouth:

>

> Yeah. Though most engi builds have you playing keyboard.

 

Not the wvw builds. You can achieve a lot by brainless button mashing.

Sure a good heal scrapper won't do that. But a good scourge won't do that either.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > > > Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

> > > > >

> > > > > A little but messy, as i pointed out several time the F keys are strange to use... :\

> > > >

> > > > Go play engineer for a while and you'll reassign your f keys.

> > >

> > > At least will feel that F keys aka toolbelt on engie makes more sense :open_mouth:

> >

> > Yeah. Though most engi builds have you playing keyboard.

>

> Not the wvw builds. You can achieve a lot by brainless button mashing.

> Sure a good heal scrapper won't do that. But a good scourge won't do that either.

 

IMO if one scrapper is playing piano he doesnt know what is doing :|, the player can try to spam some skills then move to some other support then back to the condi cleanse, scrapper is more like the drummer than the pianist.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > Scourge was never good in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf

>

> You probably meant:

> Scourge was never **a** good **solo roamer** in wvw it needed a buff anet not a nerf.

>

> Unfortunately:

> Scourge was ~~never~~ good in wvw **zergling** it needed ~~a buff anet not~~ a nerf

>

 

I roam scrounge right now for HoD and have been having a lot of fun with it. W/L ratio is easily 8/2 with surprise attacks and long range kiters being the worst to fight. With the ability to load torment with nearly every attack the meltage is real.

 

[KrHome.1920]

For 1v1 death magic trailblazer scourge is extremely strong since the DM traitline has been reworked. Tons of condi cleanses, tons of armor and barrier give a good sustain against any damage type and will win lots of attrition fights. The sustain is on par with core necro.

 

But the drawbacks are the same as for core necro: First of all everyone can just leave the fight, if he feels like it, as there is no mobility and no burst. And secondly if a second player focuses you, you are f***ed.