Dagger storm is joke when comparing to tornado - buff ideas.

[Shiyo.3578]

Stealthing in combat is the exact reason WHY this game has the strongest stealth of any MMORPG I've ever played.

 

Normally:

* Can only stealth out of combat(excluding 3-5 minute cooldowns)

* Stealth lasts forever.

* Stealth breaks on taking damage.

* Stealth breaks on DOT ticks.

 

Meanwhile in GW2 stealth comes with none of the disadvantages of a normal MMORPG, while also being usable in combat and with shadow arts you can have nearly 100% stealth uptime. The entire premise of GW2's stealth(or so I thought) was that you could stealth in combat, unlike other MMO's, but it was for a limited amount of time and had a huge resource cost. Meanwhile shadow arts...

 

It's hilariously overpowered.

 

By the way, using the fact someone was wrong about shadow return on shadowstep being 30 seconds instead of 15 is grasping at straws to flame someone.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/691694648745394268/751607716539006986/unknown.png not thief main

 

Also, thief will never be nerfed. Condi thief, maybe, barely(it's still overpowered and little skill required to play btw), but I don't think the developers or the player base realizes how powerful this class is. People are stuck on holo, condi's(not condi meta..), necros, rev etc and thief, despite being the strongest class in the game right now, is completely ignored.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Stealthing in combat is the exact reason WHY this game has the strongest stealth of any MMORPG I've ever played.

>

 

It isnt, and it doesnt.

 

> Normally:

> * Can only stealth out of combat(excluding 3-5 minute cooldowns)

> * Stealth lasts forever.

> * Stealth breaks on taking damage.

> * Stealth breaks on DOT ticks.

>

 

Which makes it stronger. You have to invest no resources into stealth, and its permanent. Imagine if thief didnt even have to go through any hoops to permastealth in WvW. It would be *ridiculously* overpowered.

 

> Meanwhile in GW2 stealth comes with none of the disadvantages of a normal MMORPG, while also being usable in combat and with shadow arts you can have nearly 100% stealth uptime. The entire premise of GW2's stealth(or so I thought) was that you could stealth in combat, unlike other MMO's, but it was for a limited amount of time and had a huge resource cost. Meanwhile shadow arts...

>

 

Because its a different system. It comes with none of the advantages (No resources. Instant infinite Duration. And in case of heavily tab-targetting MMOs, near complete immunity to future attacks. Oh and no "revealed") either. And sure, *technically* you can stealth up in combat. But practically the enemy then just kills you for trying to do something that stupid. And in what world is stealth "nearly 100% uptime".

 

> It's hilariously overpowered.

>

 

In-combat its actually underpowered. Thats why top level thieves pretty much *never* enter stealth while actively fighting. Across 5 or 6 games. Each 10+ minutes. Sindrener stealthed up while properly in combat *once*. If it was truly overpowered, wouldnt he be using it all the time, rather than basically *never*? Of course as soon as this fact gets pointed out, thats usually when people suddenly stop replying, since they know they have no response.

 

> By the way, using the fact someone was wrong about shadow return on shadowstep being 30 seconds instead of 15 is grasping at straws to flame someone.

> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/691694648745394268/751607716539006986/unknown.png not thief main

>

 

That is not a mistake an active thief player would *ever* make. And it wasnt even the only one (remember "thief bursts for 10k+" when it bursts for 5k or less?) And sure, you showed that you played thief before. But conspicuously you left out the match history. If I were to show my version of this, over 50% would be thief. Yet I am not a thief main, and havent played thief in about a year. So go ahead, show us your match history.

 

> Also, thief will never be nerfed. Condi thief, maybe, barely(it's still overpowered and little skill required to play btw), but I don't think the developers or the player base realizes how powerful this class is. People are stuck on holo, condi's(not condi meta..), necros, rev etc and thief, despite being the strongest class in the game right now, is completely ignored.

 

Everyone knows how strong thief is. The same as its always been. A decap and +1 bot that is never the strongest class, but still always a class you want 1 of in your team. But *only* 1. 2 thieves, and youre going to lose. Its definitely far from "the strongest class in the game".

[Eugchriss.2046]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

>Sindrener stealthed up while **properly** in combat *once*.

There you go. Let the words game begin.

*****grabs the pop corns*****

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Stealthing in combat is the exact reason WHY this game has the strongest stealth of any MMORPG I've ever played.

>

> Normally:

> * Can only stealth out of combat(excluding 3-5 minute cooldowns)

> * Stealth lasts forever.

> * Stealth breaks on taking damage.

> * Stealth breaks on DOT ticks.

>

> Meanwhile in GW2 stealth comes with none of the disadvantages of a normal MMORPG, while also being usable in combat and with shadow arts you can have nearly 100% stealth uptime. The entire premise of GW2's stealth(or so I thought) was that you could stealth in combat, unlike other MMO's, but it was for a limited amount of time and had a huge resource cost. Meanwhile shadow arts...

>

> It's hilariously overpowered.

>

> By the way, using the fact someone was wrong about shadow return on shadowstep being 30 seconds instead of 15 is grasping at straws to flame someone.

> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/691694648745394268/751607716539006986/unknown.png not thief main

>

> Also, thief will never be nerfed. Condi thief, maybe, barely(it's still overpowered and little skill required to play btw), but I don't think the developers or the player base realizes how powerful this class is. People are stuck on holo, condi's(not condi meta..), necros, rev etc and thief, despite being the strongest class in the game right now, is completely ignored.

 

Oh yes, totally right. In GW2, you can stealth in combat withoout burning important cooldowns. How overpowered. However, in BfA, rouges can crit for 50K, while in GW2 thieves cannot do that, and if how things are being balanced in another game matters in here, that clearly means thief is underpowered. 1 overpowered and 1 underpowered evens out to balanced. Thief is fine, can't argue with both WoW AND math!

 

On a serious note, stop the comparison to other games when talking about systems that interact with literally everything. Explain why stealth is OP in the context of this game, or you don't have a point.

[Naxos.2503]

I agree with the title, Tornado is far too unreliable and easy to break since it isn't an evade (even when you're Literally a gust of wind) What's up with that ? Even the damage cannot be aimed and the projectiles are so slow ! I never use Tornado as an elite. Definitely needs a buff

 

 

 

edit : Wait this is a thief thread ? Hahaha, oh man, this is awkward ...

[zarcon.7820]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Stealthing in combat is the exact reason WHY this game has the strongest stealth of any MMORPG I've ever played.

>

> Normally:

> * Can only stealth out of combat(excluding 3-5 minute cooldowns)

> * Stealth lasts forever.

> * Stealth breaks on taking damage.

> * Stealth breaks on DOT ticks.

>

> Meanwhile in GW2 stealth comes with none of the disadvantages of a normal MMORPG, while also being usable in combat and with shadow arts you can have nearly 100% stealth uptime. The entire premise of GW2's stealth(or so I thought) was that you could stealth in combat, unlike other MMO's, but it was for a limited amount of time and had a huge resource cost. Meanwhile shadow arts...

>

> It's hilariously overpowered.

>

> By the way, using the fact someone was wrong about shadow return on shadowstep being 30 seconds instead of 15 is grasping at straws to flame someone.

> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/691694648745394268/751607716539006986/unknown.png not thief main

>

> Also, thief will never be nerfed. Condi thief, maybe, barely(it's still overpowered and little skill required to play btw), but I don't think the developers or the player base realizes how powerful this class is. People are stuck on holo, condi's(not condi meta..), necros, rev etc and thief, despite being the strongest class in the game right now, is completely ignored.

 

Ignorance does not compare to enlightened vision

[Seryi.7936]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> I agree with the title, Tornado is far too unreliable and easy to break since it isn't an evade (even when you're Literally a gust of wind) What's up with that ? Even the damage cannot be aimed and the projectiles are so slow ! I never use Tornado as an elite. Definitely needs a buff

>

>

>

> edit : Wait this is a thief thread ? Hahaha, oh man, this is awkward ...

I can't believe we've actually gone to a point where people think Dagger Storm of all things needs a buff.

[Strider.7849]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Babylon.8972" said:

> > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

> > >

> > > The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.

> > > Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.

> > > Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.

> > > Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?

> > > Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

> >

> > Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

>

> How the heck, a skill that barely got changed since like 2016 is now OP? What is wrong with you? People use it to interrupt stomps/resses at most, barely seen anyone use it beyond that and you call it op? Get your facts straight, dmg is non-existant compared to other transform elites like Rampage or Lich, CC is the only thing it's somehow "so-so" compared to some other classes that can spam them(waving at hammer warrior). Perma stab, like, what? Every Transform skill have pulsing "perma stab", UNIMAGINABLE!

> How someone can even compare Dagger Storm to Tornado is beyond me.

> One of the weakest elite skills among elite skills since 2012 that barely has any use now is called "op", hilarious.

 

I used to troll with it by casting meteor and then flipping people around inside the meteor storm with it.. then they nerfed meteor too hahahahahahaha....***Sadface**

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Naxos.2503" said:

> I agree with the title, Tornado is far too unreliable and easy to break since it isn't an evade (even when you're Literally a gust of wind) What's up with that ? Even the damage cannot be aimed and the projectiles are so slow ! I never use Tornado as an elite. Definitely needs a buff

>

>

>

> edit : Wait this is a thief thread ? Hahaha, oh man, this is awkward ...

 

 

https://imgur.com/WyO16L2

This is what nado can do btw xd

yes, it was 1 hit that did this much damage.

 

EDIT charge + requiem did 26 179 dmg, and put me down from full hp to full dead instantly LUL

[Rednaxela.6018]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> https://imgur.com/WyO16L2

> This is what nado can do btw xd

> yes, it was 1 hit that did this much damage.

>

> EDIT charge + requiem did 26 179 dmg, and put me down from full hp to full dead instantly LUL

 

I agree with you that the tornado CAN do a lot of damage, but you harm yourself as a Mesmer with clones. The projectiles of the tornado bounce between the player and clones. However, this is not the normal case and as a Mirage you have the elite port, invul and insta dodge, use one of the possibilities and it is fine. The Tornado does not get behind you. This eternal whining because you can't react fast enough. Learn how the tornado cast animation looks and go out of range.

 

Btw those dmg numbers can only be reached by berserker eles. So ye it can one shot u but you can one shot the ele, too.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Rednaxela.6018" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > https://imgur.com/WyO16L2

> > This is what nado can do btw xd

> > yes, it was 1 hit that did this much damage.

> >

> > EDIT charge + requiem did 26 179 dmg, and put me down from full hp to full dead instantly LUL

>

> I agree with you that the tornado CAN do a lot of damage, but you harm yourself as a Mesmer with clones. The projectiles of the tornado bounce between the player and clones. However, this is not the normal case and as a Mirage you have the elite port, invul and insta dodge, use one of the possibilities and it is fine. The Tornado does not get behind you. This eternal whining because you can't react fast enough. Learn how the tornado cast animation looks and go out of range.

>

> Btw those dmg numbers can only be reached by berserker eles. So ye it can one shot u but you can one shot the ele, too.

 

No, Im running berserker and I cant 1shot berserker ele. I can burst him down, yes. But I cant kill them with 1 click.

Tornado is just bugged, they should fix it but they wont.

The screen was supposed to point out that nado CAN hit hard. Its a super strong skill.

Its +1k vit, pulsing stab skill with 6 knockdowns if memory serves right.

 

EDIT.

Just dodge argument, I love it btw, you get props for that.

[Rednaxela.6018]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Rednaxela.6018" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > https://imgur.com/WyO16L2

> > > This is what nado can do btw xd

> > > yes, it was 1 hit that did this much damage.

> > >

> > > EDIT charge + requiem did 26 179 dmg, and put me down from full hp to full dead instantly LUL

> >

> > I agree with you that the tornado CAN do a lot of damage, but you harm yourself as a Mesmer with clones. The projectiles of the tornado bounce between the player and clones. However, this is not the normal case and as a Mirage you have the elite port, invul and insta dodge, use one of the possibilities and it is fine. The Tornado does not get behind you. This eternal whining because you can't react fast enough. Learn how the tornado cast animation looks and go out of range.

> >

> > Btw those dmg numbers can only be reached by berserker eles. So ye it can one shot u but you can one shot the ele, too.

>

> No, Im running berserker and I cant 1shot berserker ele. I can burst him down, yes. But I cant kill them with 1 click.

> Tornado is just bugged, they should fix it but they wont.

> The screen was supposed to point out that nado CAN hit hard. Its a super strong skill.

> Its +1k vit, pulsing stab skill with 6 knockdowns if memory serves right.

>

> EDIT.

> Just dodge argument, I love it btw, you get props for that.

 

Yes, tornado is strong but only on Lightning Rod ele and also only with Berserk Amulet. Berserker ele has 11k hp, Max 15k hp depending on the amulet. 11 - 15k can be easily achieved with a burst combo out of invis. It doesn't matter if the ele needs a skill and mesmer need 5 skills. If the 5 skills are instant and unpredictable and tornado has an obvious cast animation to which you can react, the one-skill-burst is not automatically better. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that tornado is weak, but the eternal comparisons are bullshit. Every transformation has pulsing stabi, hp increase etc. I only say Lich 8k auto attacks, rampage perma stun and 30k hp +. It's all about the classes as a whole and not about single skills and such screenshots are meaningless.

And i wouldnt call the nado "bugged". Same as guardian greatsword projectiles: If you are in your enemies hitbox, all of those projectiles will hit you.

[salogel.1869]

requiem can only hit each target 1x per cast, although there was a bug where it would multi hit people in downstate so that might be what happened