Steam users wont stick with this game if servers remain the same

[Neftex.7594]

@"Ayrilana.1396"

cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

EDIT: for future reference, heres one post from archive of the ORIGINAL forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-state-of-skill-lag-and-server-optimizations/page/2#post3141560

 

its really simple: im on spawn top of the map, 50v50 is happening in the bottom of the map - im nowhere in range to see them so they have 0 impact on my game client, no data about the battle should be getting to me. i try casting skills, theyre not going off or have big delays...

BECAUSE THE SERVER CANT HANDLE ALL THE STUFF THATS HAPPENING IN THE MAP INSTANCE, as soon as battle is done, skills work perfectly...

 

they reduced the map cap to make the battles easier to handle, didnt fix the problem

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109755/wvw-performance-and-map-cap-testing/p1

 

the only reasons you dont personally experience lags: youre not on full map with people that press more than autoattack, or youre the one not pressing anything else but autoattack so you dont notice skills not working...

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Neftex.7594" said:

> @"Ayrilana.1396"

> cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

>

> its really simple: im on spawn top of the map, 50v50 is happening in the bottom of the map - im nowhere in range to see them so they have 0 impact on my game client, no data about the battle should be getting to me. i try casting skills, theyre not going off or have big delays...

> BECAUSE THE SERVER CANT HANDLE ALL THE STUFF THATS HAPPENING IN THE MAP INSTANCE

>

> they reduced the map cap to make the battles easier to handle, didnt fix the problem

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109755/wvw-performance-and-map-cap-testing/p1

>

> the only reasons you dont personally experience lags: youre not on full map with people that press more than autoattack, or youre the one not pressing anything else but autoattack so you dont notice skills not working...

>

 

I have a rotation that I always do and I have been in maps that are full, people claim lag, but it didn’t impact me. This in on PvE maps. I haven’t been in WvW in a couple of months.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Neftex.7594" said:

> @"Ayrilana.1396"

> cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

> EDIT: for future reference, heres one post from archive of the ORIGINAL forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-state-of-skill-lag-and-server-optimizations/page/2#post3141560

>

That archived post is from 2013. GW2 has moved to AWS since then.

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"aaron.7850" said:

> > Have you done the world boss rush event? lags happens in any map where there are too many players. Steam will make all starter zones a lag fest.

> > Unless Anet does something about it, the lag will scare away many potential players.

>

> Turn down the graphics settings, such as the character model limit, or run the game on a better PC to get max settings.

 

Its never issue with graphic settings its always servers causing lagg,stutter frame drops. Server lagg is on almost every instance and map now

[Neftex.7594]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Neftex.7594" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396"

> > cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

> > EDIT: for future reference, heres one post from archive of the ORIGINAL forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-state-of-skill-lag-and-server-optimizations/page/2#post3141560

> >

> That archived post is from 2013. GW2 has moved to AWS since then.

>

 

and? doesnt change anything about the fact that its server side problem... we still have skill lag and now even pve lags on top of it, whats your point?

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Neftex.7594" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Neftex.7594" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396"

> > > cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

> > > EDIT: for future reference, heres one post from archive of the ORIGINAL forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-state-of-skill-lag-and-server-optimizations/page/2#post3141560

> > >

> > That archived post is from 2013. GW2 has moved to AWS since then.

> >

>

> and? doesnt change anything about the fact that its server side problem... we still have skill lag and now even pve lags on top of it, whats your point?

 

Completely different architecture. Completely different infrastructure. This invalidates claims made from 7 years ago with an entirely different set up.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"aaron.7850" said:

> > > Have you done the world boss rush event? lags happens in any map where there are too many players. Steam will make all starter zones a lag fest.

> > > Unless Anet does something about it, the lag will scare away many potential players.

> >

> > Turn down the graphics settings, such as the character model limit, or run the game on a better PC to get max settings.

>

> Its never issue with graphic settings its always servers causing lagg,stutter frame drops. Server lagg is on almost every instance and map now

 

As I have said to everyone who responded to this post, there are two types of lag: graphical and network. The lag you see with a ton of players, such as at any WB like Maw, is graphical. Dropping the character model limit down removes it.

[Yggranya.5201]

Only certanty you can get by asking other players is that it surely isn't anets fault. In reality, the only thing that matters is that it isn't the players fault and you can't do anything about it.

 

So just go play some other game until it's fixed, and then just stay playing the other games that don't have the same problem. It isn't on anets end (according to these people), it isn't on your end, so what is it? Why bother waiting? Why bother asking when they so vehemently protect anet, and anet surely isn't going to admit anything? The other games work fine, you can enjoy them as much as you want.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> The lag happens in endgame zones, not even the current ones. I doubt any of them would encounter any issues.

 

At some point, they will. I've been having action and skill delays for the past weeks on pretty much all PoF maps and even some HoT ones.

[keenedge.9675]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> Doesn't make any difference my ping is jumping from 250-1000-250-556-600 etc Zero to do with graphics. Never done this for many years and i've been here on and off for 8 years.

 

If you are being throttled by your ISP from using too much UP channel you will see this pattern. Discord and FB are big culprits.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Neftex.7594" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396"

> > cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

> >

> > its really simple: im on spawn top of the map, 50v50 is happening in the bottom of the map - im nowhere in range to see them so they have 0 impact on my game client, no data about the battle should be getting to me. i try casting skills, theyre not going off or have big delays...

> > BECAUSE THE SERVER CANT HANDLE ALL THE STUFF THATS HAPPENING IN THE MAP INSTANCE

> >

> > they reduced the map cap to make the battles easier to handle, didnt fix the problem

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109755/wvw-performance-and-map-cap-testing/p1

> >

> > the only reasons you dont personally experience lags: youre not on full map with people that press more than autoattack, or youre the one not pressing anything else but autoattack so you dont notice skills not working...

> >

>

> I have a rotation that I always do and I have been in maps that are full, people claim lag, but it didn’t impact me. This in on PvE maps. I haven’t been in WvW in a couple of months.

 

Then as previously posted, if you do not work for ANet please stop deflecting the issue unless you would like to show that you work for ANet and can officially verify there are no server or client side issues in YOUR software. Posting once stating you do not see an issue is fine. Trying to claim that someone else does not have an issue is going a bit far since you are not experiencing what they are. Its ok for people to come here and raise a hand saying hey something seems to not be on the up and up. Saying that you haven't been in WvW is over reach since even ANet has officially said there is issues with latency and they are trying to find ways to handle it. Leave ANet to fix ANet issues, they are a grown company and can speak for themselves.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Neftex.7594" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396"

> > > cba going back through posts and vods from twitch where developers talked about it

> > >

> > > its really simple: im on spawn top of the map, 50v50 is happening in the bottom of the map - im nowhere in range to see them so they have 0 impact on my game client, no data about the battle should be getting to me. i try casting skills, theyre not going off or have big delays...

> > > BECAUSE THE SERVER CANT HANDLE ALL THE STUFF THATS HAPPENING IN THE MAP INSTANCE

> > >

> > > they reduced the map cap to make the battles easier to handle, didnt fix the problem

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109755/wvw-performance-and-map-cap-testing/p1

> > >

> > > the only reasons you dont personally experience lags: youre not on full map with people that press more than autoattack, or youre the one not pressing anything else but autoattack so you dont notice skills not working...

> > >

> >

> > I have a rotation that I always do and I have been in maps that are full, people claim lag, but it didn’t impact me. This in on PvE maps. I haven’t been in WvW in a couple of months.

>

> Then as previously posted, if you do not work for ANet please stop deflecting the issue unless you would like to show that you work for ANet and can officially verify there are no server or client side issues in YOUR software. Posting once stating you do not see an issue is fine. Trying to claim that someone else does not have an issue is going a bit far since you are not experiencing what they are. Its ok for people to come here and raise a hand saying hey something seems to not be on the up and up. Saying that you haven't been in WvW is over reach since even ANet has officially said there is issues with latency and they are trying to find ways to handle it. Leave ANet to fix ANet issues, they are a grown company and can speak for themselves.

 

There’s a difference between saying someone doesn’t have an issue and that the issue is likely not the servers.

 

Most of these threads/posts are about PvE maps, not WvW. WvW maps are very different from PvE maps due to the number of players that can be one them.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> There’s a difference between saying someone doesn’t have an issue and that the issue is likely not the servers.

>

> Most of these threads/posts are about PvE maps, not WvW. WvW maps are very different from PvE maps due to the number of players that can be one them.

 

It doesn't matter. PvE or WvW. Point was made, your counter point was made, after that you are distracting from the issue that a paying customer had an issue and they posted a concern. Its ok to counter people spreading blatant mis-information but leave ANet to answer for ANet after your point was made. I am not disputing the different forms of latency. There are a lot of people that will confuse client side, server side and just plan old network latency issues. But I am disputing people coming and just saying it's all client side when ANet has said there are issues. Leave ANet to speak for ANet after you have made your point please. If no one reports any issues when we do get memory leaks its even harder to get it fixed faster if people are in denial that there is an issue they didn't encounter. Compounded with that is their decision on where to move cloud services to. Feedback like this might encourage them to make sure they are getting proper network metrics from their cloud providers to ensure they are teaming up with the best providers for their client base. If I was a new player starting during the world boss event after my system surpassed the recommended specs by that much I too would question if it was worth it. And that's before you get into WvW and a 3 way fight. The golden rule here is, your mileage may vary.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> >

> > There’s a difference between saying someone doesn’t have an issue and that the issue is likely not the servers.

> >

> > Most of these threads/posts are about PvE maps, not WvW. WvW maps are very different from PvE maps due to the number of players that can be one them.

>

> It doesn't matter. PvE or WvW. Point was made, your counter point was made, after that you are distracting from the issue that a paying customer had an issue and they posted a concern. Its ok to counter people spreading blatant mis-information but leave ANet to answer for ANet after your point was made. I am not disputing the different forms of latency. There are a lot of people that will confuse client side, server side and just plan old network latency issues. But I am disputing people coming and just saying it's all client side when ANet has said there are issues. Leave ANet to speak for ANet after you have made your point please. If no one reports any issues when we do get memory leaks its even harder to get it fixed faster if people are in denial that there is an issue they didn't encounter. Compounded with that is their decision on where to move cloud services to. Feedback like this might encourage them to make sure they are getting proper network metrics from their cloud providers to ensure they are teaming up with the best providers for their client base. If I was a new player starting during the world boss event after my system surpassed the recommended specs by that much I too would question if it was worth it. And that's before you get into WvW and a 3 way fight. The golden rule here is, your mileage may vary.

 

Actually it does matter because WvW maps are different than PvE maps. I’ve also not been saying that it’s all client side. The ISP network is not client side.

 

For PvE, where most of the complaints are about, it’s unlikely to be a server issue if it doesn’t affect every player. What I have done is present other areas that could be the cause of the issue that players could look into. These areas have been found to be the source of the very same issues that players complain about in other games.

[lokh.2695]

The whole steam release feels like a stunt to push some numbers before the next expansion. I doubt the beancounters actually expect the steam crowd to stick around.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

 

I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> >

> > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

>

> I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

>

 

It seems obvious that the poster hasn’t been to the WvW forums in the past 5 years.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > >

> > > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

> >

> > I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

> >

>

> It seems obvious that the poster hasn’t been to the WvW forums in the past 5 years.

 

As I was just glad it’s finally significantly impacting PvE.

 

It’s been the only time there seems to be some form of actual developer interest in the problem.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > >

> > > > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

> > >

> > > I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

> > >

> >

> > It seems obvious that the poster hasn’t been to the WvW forums in the past 5 years.

>

> As I was just glad it’s finally significantly impacting PvE.

>

> It’s been the only time there seems to be some form of actual developer interest in the problem.

 

Graphical lag makes sense as we get more flash and infusions that will impact people systems since that's got to passed over and then processed. The pre-lag of an oncoming zerg....the skill lag, server side as it has to do all the calculations and then rebroadcast. Rubber Banding, all about server client resyncing and losing track and network connectivity. So some can be addressed some can't. But in the end, latency issues of all types will not be good for sales.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

>

> Actually it does matter because WvW maps are different than PvE maps. I’ve also not been saying that it’s all client side. The ISP network is not client side.

>

> For PvE, where most of the complaints are about, it’s unlikely to be a server issue if it doesn’t affect every player. What I have done is present other areas that could be the cause of the issue that players could look into. These areas have been found to be the source of the very same issues that players complain about in other games.

 

I am not sure I have seen anything posted that would give players any insight into the individual virtual servers that form the cloud and how many resources are applied to a PvE map versus WvW. I am not sure we could quantify the number of players each hold either. So could this be an imbalance of resources, maybe. Could it be a difference in calculations, probably. I could see WvW requiring more calculations if the populations are compatible considering the number of objects interacting. But I have seen the same types of latency in WvW and PvE. Personally, using the same settings, systems, connections, I would agree it seems the problems are getting worse. So that makes me ask, what's changing, and that points to the software side, either client or server. Are more people online in 2020, probably, but this was before that.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> Point is, the game has severe lag issues since months at this point, from constant pop up messages about unavailable log-in servers to especially PoF and LW (4 and Icebrood) maps having frequent sheer unplayable input delays and such, and considering how widespread those issues are and appearing at the same time for all those affected they are clearly not on the player's ends.

>

 

Been on voice with people in different parts of US and Canada when we get the popups and when checking it seems to be hitting everyone. So makes me question cloud server connections and/or internal server connections between the different virtual services. But agree that too has increased of late.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> >

> > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

>

> I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

>

 

The majority of the players in the game are PvE players. If you look at all of the threads created, the majority are in regards to PvE maps. I'm basing this off everything that I have seen over at least the past several months when these complaints picked up.

 

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > >

> > > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

> >

> > I would avoid the WvW subforum with that statement.

> >

>

> It seems obvious that the poster hasn’t been to the WvW forums in the past 5 years.

 

I actually navigate the forums by viewing the recent discussions so I see everything. I very rarely go into a particular sub-forum.

 

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> >

> > Actually it does matter because WvW maps are different than PvE maps. I’ve also not been saying that it’s all client side. The ISP network is not client side.

> >

> > For PvE, where most of the complaints are about, it’s unlikely to be a server issue if it doesn’t affect every player. What I have done is present other areas that could be the cause of the issue that players could look into. These areas have been found to be the source of the very same issues that players complain about in other games.

>

> I am not sure I have seen anything posted that would give players any insight into the individual virtual servers that form the cloud and how many resources are applied to a PvE map versus WvW. I am not sure we could quantify the number of players each hold either. So could this be an imbalance of resources, maybe. Could it be a difference in calculations, probably. I could see WvW requiring more calculations if the populations are compatible considering the number of objects interacting. But I have seen the same types of latency in WvW and PvE. Personally, using the same settings, systems, connections, I would agree it seems the problems are getting worse. So that makes me ask, what's changing, and that points to the software side, either client or server. Are more people online in 2020, probably, but this was before that.

>

 

What has gotten me curious is if the design of a map could impact latency. What I mean by this is all of those visual effects you see from the environment and such. Compare Thunderhead Peaks to Queensdale, for example. Thunderhead Peaks has a lot of extra things going on. Could this design be creating extra calculations, and when you throw those from the players, it creates a lot of data that gets sent back and forth. When you throw in an unstable internet connection into the mix, it then makes the player more susceptible various forms of lag. Perhaps that could explain why some people have issues, regardless of the number of players, on those maps.

 

I don't know what kind of data gets sent back and forth between the client and the servers. What kind of data is getting sent back and forth to a client that is on a full Queensdale map vs a full Thunderhead Peaks map? This may be off topic but I remember the blue Zepherite crystal that does jumps sometimes failing for me (actually it's been a long complaint of players since LS2) and the mushrooms in SAB W1Z3 (to get to the rift thing) not launching me when I land on them. Maybe all of this goes back to the way the game is coded? I don't know. I've tried to search online in regards to all of this for other games but it seems too specific to get any worthwhile results.

 

Oh. I just remembered after posting that Anet made some changes to Thunderhead Peaks to help with some issues. Maybe that adds some credence to this.

[Randulf.7614]

This issue goes round in a circle. I appreciate many are being helpful, but the issue is known to be widespread - on EU at least. We know it affects PoF and LS4, whilst not so much anywhere else in the game. It is not related to quantity of players on map as it occurs at any time of day and outside of metas as well as during. It is consistent amongst most players on a single map who all tend to call it out when it starts happening. It is not client side.

 

Whilst the delay in action by ANet is annoying, they have started investigating it which means they are noticing a problem either their end or due to the sheer number of reports they are looking in to what would cause it

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > >

> > > There’s a difference between saying someone doesn’t have an issue and that the issue is likely not the servers.

> > >

> > > Most of these threads/posts are about PvE maps, not WvW. WvW maps are very different from PvE maps due to the number of players that can be one them.

> >

> > It doesn't matter. PvE or WvW. Point was made, your counter point was made, after that you are distracting from the issue that a paying customer had an issue and they posted a concern. Its ok to counter people spreading blatant mis-information but leave ANet to answer for ANet after your point was made. I am not disputing the different forms of latency. There are a lot of people that will confuse client side, server side and just plan old network latency issues. But I am disputing people coming and just saying it's all client side when ANet has said there are issues. Leave ANet to speak for ANet after you have made your point please. If no one reports any issues when we do get memory leaks its even harder to get it fixed faster if people are in denial that there is an issue they didn't encounter. Compounded with that is their decision on where to move cloud services to. Feedback like this might encourage them to make sure they are getting proper network metrics from their cloud providers to ensure they are teaming up with the best providers for their client base. If I was a new player starting during the world boss event after my system surpassed the recommended specs by that much I too would question if it was worth it. And that's before you get into WvW and a 3 way fight. The golden rule here is, your mileage may vary.

>

>

> For PvE, where most of the complaints are about,

 

This is the part where I am convinced you don’t spend much time in the WvW forums.

 

Rarely does a day go by when there is not an active thread in that sub forum about lag and it’s impact.

 

Say what you will about your proficiency in browsing, for you to state ‘ I'm basing this off everything that I have seen over at least the past several months when these complaints picked up.’ Just shows how little you spend in the WvW section.

 

They only picked up in the PvE section. It’s been ongoing in WvW for years.

 

But yeah...,

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > The lag happens in endgame zones, not even the current ones. I doubt any of them would encounter any issues.

> >

> > Dunno where you are from but from me the lag is all over even tyria is unplayable at this time.

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"aaron.7850" said:

> > > > Have you done the world boss rush event? lags happens in any map where there are too many players. Steam will make all starter zones a lag fest.

> > > > Unless Anet does something about it, the lag will scare away many potential players.

> > >

> > > Turn down the graphics settings, such as the character model limit, or run the game on a better PC to get max settings.

> >

> > Doesn't make any difference my ping is jumping from 250-1000-250-556-600 etc Zero to do with graphics. Never done this for many years and i've been here on and off for 8 years.

> > Also i noticed servers are flipping every few mins in Pof that can't be normal...

>

> Like I said in my reply to the poster, I don't see the number of player affecting network lag. If this were true, adjusting the character model limit should resolve that.

 

The number of players around you DOES affect network lag. More players = more data to transfer for each of them to all clients. Also, adjusting character model limit doesn't help with network lag because character model limit affects how many players are VISIBLE, but even invisible characters need to be processed by your computer, meaning the server must pass you that data, even if they are invisible. That's because characters that are invisible still affect the game world, as anyone who was unfortunate enough to be in a three-way battle in Stonemist Castle can tell you, seeing nobody around one second then suddenly being dead with 20 people on top of you.