robertthebard.8150 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > > Ok mate, I've given you the benefit of the doubt due to how bad my memory can be, but that's literally what this is all about, using an e spec weapon outside of it's spec. > Yes. How does that have anything with disabling elite specs? Because i don't see the connection. > > So, if as put forward, one can use the weapon while using three core specs, they are, in fact disabling everything about the e spec but the weapon. > No, enabling greatsword on Core Necro or Scourge does not mean "disabling reaper except for GS". Just as picking 3 core traitlines does not mean "disabling 2/5 of the core and both especs". And deciding on a wardrobe pieces for your armor does not mean you "disable all the wardrobe except for 6 pieces". That would be some really backward and convoluted way of thinking. > If you're using a GS on a Core Necro, or a Scourge, you're disabling the e spec. If you're not, then this entire thread is pointless. Because e specs can already use the weapon associated with them. If not, then why go through the hassle of unlocking the appropriate spec, and even maxing it out, just to disable it, but keep the weapon? This is the scenario laid out in this very thread, after all. All this time, I thought I was the one that was confused, but it's becoming apparent that that's simply not the case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > If you're using a GS on a Core Necro, or a Scourge, you're disabling the e spec. No, i am enabling it on core and/or Scourge. If you don;t understand the difference between those two things, i can;t really help you. > If you're not, then this entire thread is pointless. No. It just means you (again) not understand what this thread is about. > Because e specs can already use the weapon associated with them. Yes, that espec can. Core and the other espec cannot. > If not, then why go through the hassle of unlocking the appropriate spec, and even maxing it out, just to disable it, but keep the weapon? First, not using the espec at this moment does not mean you're "disabling" it. Using Scourge does not mean you "disable" Reaper. Using GS does not mean you're "disabling" other weapons in that slot. Second, the " going through the hassle of unlocking the appropriate spec, and even maxing it out" is just a compromise, a sort of price you would need to pay in order to get a weapon (frankly, i wouldn't mind just unconditionally unlocking the weapons for all, i'm just sure that this might not go well with some of people). The same as, for example, doing a specialization weapon collection for reaper is a price you have to pay to unlock the reaper GS upgraded skin - even if you're going to use that skin not on Reaper, but on Guardian (like i did). Notice, by the way, how me using that skin on Guardian did not mean i have "disabled" Reaper. > All this time, I thought I was the one that was confused, but it's becoming apparent that that's simply not the case at all. Oh, quite the opposite. It seems that your initial estimate of the situation was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > > If you're using a GS on a Core Necro, or a Scourge, you're disabling the e spec. > No, i am enabling it on core and/or Scourge. If you don;t understand the difference between those two things, i can;t really help you. > > If you're not, then this entire thread is pointless. > No. It just means you (again) not understand what this thread is about. > > > Because e specs can already use the weapon associated with them. > Yes, that espec can. Core and the other espec cannot. > > > If not, then why go through the hassle of unlocking the appropriate spec, and even maxing it out, just to disable it, but keep the weapon? > First, not using the espec at this moment does not mean you're "disabling" it. Using Scourge does not mean you "disable" Reaper. Using GS does not mean you're "disabling" other weapons in that slot. > Second, the " going through the hassle of unlocking the appropriate spec, and even maxing it out" is just a compromise, a sort of price you would need to pay in order to get a weapon (frankly, i wouldn't mind just unconditionally unlocking the weapons for all, i'm just sure that this might not go well with some of people). The same as, for example, doing a specialization weapon collection for reaper is a price you have to pay to unlock the reaper GS upgraded skin - even if you're going to use that skin not on Reaper, but on Guardian (like i did). Notice, by the way, how me using that skin on Guardian did not mean i have "disabled" Reaper. > > > All this time, I thought I was the one that was confused, but it's becoming apparent that that's simply not the case at all. > Oh, quite the opposite. It seems that your initial estimate of the situation was spot on. > > Nope, it's really not. If you're maxing the spec, and then removing it to run another spec, you're disabling the spec, but keeping the weapon. I'm not sure why I have to explain this, since it would seem your position is that you know a lot about the game, but if you remove a spec from the three you are allotted, you're disabling the spec. If this weren't the case, then this thread would be meaningless, because once you maxed out the spec, you could always equip the weapon granted, except that that's not how it works. We're not talking about skins. We're talking about actual weapons, so let's stop thrashing around wildly trying to move the goal posts. The idea of the thread is to be able to equip a weapon from an ES, w/out having to actually run the ES to do it. Since the proposed methodology is to max out the ES first, and then remove it, hence disabling it, so that you can enable another spec, but continue to use the weapon. Hey, maybe disable is too abstract? Maybe you need a synonym, like inactive? Either way comes down to the same thing: You're removing the ES as an active spec, and replacing it with something else. Allow me to provide a link to a summary of what this is supposed to entail, anyone reading along may be in for a big shock when they realize just who posted the summary, considering the last few comments here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1351672/#Comment_1351672 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > Nope, it's really not. If you're maxing the spec, and then removing it to run another spec, you're disabling the spec, but keeping the weapon. I'm not sure why I have to explain this, since it would seem your position is that you know a lot about the game, but if you remove a spec from the three you are allotted, you're disabling the spec. No, i am not. The spec is still there, fully unlocked. I'm just not using it _at this moment_. It doesn't mean it is "disabled" though. I can still use it whenever i want to. If we were to follow your illogical train of thought, though, i would have to consider _anything_ i am not using at this moment to be _disabled_. And this is not how it works. > If this weren't the case, then this thread would be meaningless, because once you maxed out the spec, you could always equip the weapon granted _but only on the espec tied to the weapon_. > > We're not talking about skins. We're talking about actual weapons I don;t see the difference. I unlock something attached to the espec. I am using it, but not on the espec. By your own reasoning, this means that by using reaper gs skin on guardian, i have just disabled reaper espec except for the skin. > The idea of the thread is to be able to equip a weapon from an ES, w/out having to actually run the ES to do it. Yes. As i have tried to explain you over and over again, it's not the same as "disabling" that espec > Since the proposed methodology is to max out the ES first, and then remove it, hence disabling it, so that you can enable another spec, but continue to use the weapon. Hey, maybe disable is too abstract? Maybe you need a synonym, like inactive? Either way comes down to the same thing: You're removing the ES as an active spec, and replacing it with something else. Yes. The same things happen whenever i switch characters. Does that mean that whenever i decide to play on one of my characters, I am "disabling" all the others? I don't think so. And i have already mentioned, that i would be completely fine with just enabling those weapons straight out, without first locking them behind especs. The only reason why i even suggested first maxing out the espec is that some people (you included) said you wouldn't want anyone getting any shortcuts to those weapons. > > Allow me to provide a link to a summary of what this is supposed to entail, anyone reading along may be in for a big shock when they realize just who posted the summary, considering the last few comments here: > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1351672/#Comment_1351672 Yes, that is my summary. You might want to read it more carefully, because it says something else than you think it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > > Nope, it's really not. If you're maxing the spec, and then removing it to run another spec, you're disabling the spec, but keeping the weapon. I'm not sure why I have to explain this, since it would seem your position is that you know a lot about the game, but if you remove a spec from the three you are allotted, you're disabling the spec. > No, i am not. The spec is still there, fully unlocked. I'm just not using it _at this moment_. It doesn't mean it is "disabled" though. I can still use it whenever i want to. If we were to follow your illogical train of thought, though, i would have to consider _anything_ i am not using at this moment to be _disabled_. > And this is not how it works. > > > If this weren't the case, then this thread would be meaningless, because once you maxed out the spec, you could always equip the weapon granted > _but only on the espec tied to the weapon_. > > > > > We're not talking about skins. We're talking about actual weapons > I don;t see the difference. I unlock something attached to the espec. I am using it, but not on the espec. By your own reasoning, this means that by using reaper gs skin on guardian, i have just disabled reaper espec except for the skin. > > > The idea of the thread is to be able to equip a weapon from an ES, w/out having to actually run the ES to do it. > Yes. As i have tried to explain you over and over again, it's not the same as "disabling" that espec > > > Since the proposed methodology is to max out the ES first, and then remove it, hence disabling it, so that you can enable another spec, but continue to use the weapon. Hey, maybe disable is too abstract? Maybe you need a synonym, like inactive? Either way comes down to the same thing: You're removing the ES as an active spec, and replacing it with something else. > Yes. The same things happen whenever i switch characters. Does that mean that whenever i decide to play on one of my characters, I am "disabling" all the others? I don't think so. > And i have already mentioned, that i would be completely fine with just enabling those weapons straight out, without first locking them behind especs. The only reason why i even suggested first maxing out the espec is that some people (you included) said you wouldn't want anyone getting any shortcuts to those weapons. > > > > > Allow me to provide a link to a summary of what this is supposed to entail, anyone reading along may be in for a big shock when they realize just who posted the summary, considering the last few comments here: > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1351672/#Comment_1351672 > Yes, that is my summary. You might want to read it more carefully, because it says something else than you think it does. > Well, here's an easy solution: Log in 4 of your toons and run a fractal. What's that you say, you can only log one toon from an account in at a time? So yes, the rest of your toons are, in fact, disabled, while you're on one of them. disable transitive verb dis·able disabled; disabling Legal Definition of disable 1: to deprive of legal right, qualification, or capacity 2: **to make incapable or ineffective** specifically : to cause to have a disability Hmm, to make incapable, or ineffective. Interesting isn't it? By removing the ES from an active role, you are, in fact, rendering it ineffective, and you are, in fact, incapable of benefiting from the benefits that ES provides. This is another area where this would be detrimental to the game, because once they start granting one benefit from an ES w/out having to have it active, there's no leap at all required to insisting that the same concept should apply to the whole ES. You obviously believe that already, why else try to convince me, and anyone else reading along, that just because you're not actively running the ES doesn't mean you shouldn't have the benefits, after all, "it's not disabled just because I'm not actively using it", right? You've gone to great lengths already to try to prove that: * But my core weapons still function when I'm running an ES. * * But my weapon skins. * * But my other toons. How long until we start reading that all fully unlocked specs should be applied to a character? We're already on that road, there's no leap required to get to that, it's just the logical progression of "you gave us some of an ES w/out having to have it actively applied, why can't we just have all of them"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > Hmm, to make incapable, or ineffective. Interesting isn't it? By removing the ES from an active role, you are, in fact, rendering it ineffective No. It's still as effective as ever, i'm just not _using_ it. > and you are, in fact, incapable of benefiting from the benefits that ES provides. I am. I would need to switch to that ES first, but i'm completely capable of doing that _when i want_. The espec is _not_ disabled. It is merely not used. > This is another area where this would be detrimental to the game, because once they start granting one benefit from an ES w/out having to have it active, there's no leap at all required to insisting that the same concept should apply to the whole ES. Oh come on, a slippery slope fallacy? Really? > You obviously believe that already, why else try to convince me, and anyone else reading along, that just because you're not actively running the ES doesn't mean you shouldn't have the benefits, after all, "it's not disabled just because I'm not actively using it", right? You've gone to great lengths already to try to prove that: And a strawman. Even better. > How long until we start reading that all fully unlocked specs should be applied to a character? I don't know, and i don't care. That's not a subject of this discussion. If something like that happens, you will be free to argue about that (or, you can create a separate thread about it). Don't try to muddle the issue here by introducing stuff that could possibly happen in the future and act as if that should influence the arguments we have now. > We're already on that road, there's no leap required to get to that, it's just the logical progression of "you gave us some of an ES w/out having to have it actively applied, why can't we just have all of them"... If you have thought this out even for a second, you would understand that this is not only not a logical progression, but it's something completely impossible. (hint: lot of espec mechanics conflict with each other or core mechanic - you simply _can't_ have more than one active at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"robertthebard.8150" said: > > Hmm, to make incapable, or ineffective. Interesting isn't it? By removing the ES from an active role, you are, in fact, rendering it ineffective > No. It's still as effective as ever, i'm just not _using_ it. > > > and you are, in fact, incapable of benefiting from the benefits that ES provides. > I am. I would need to switch to that ES first, but i'm completely capable of doing that _when i want_. The espec is _not_ disabled. It is merely not used. > > > This is another area where this would be detrimental to the game, because once they start granting one benefit from an ES w/out having to have it active, there's no leap at all required to insisting that the same concept should apply to the whole ES. > Oh come on, a slippery slope fallacy? Really? > > > You obviously believe that already, why else try to convince me, and anyone else reading along, that just because you're not actively running the ES doesn't mean you shouldn't have the benefits, after all, "it's not disabled just because I'm not actively using it", right? You've gone to great lengths already to try to prove that: > > And a strawman. Even better. > > > How long until we start reading that all fully unlocked specs should be applied to a character? > I don't know, and i don't care. That's not a subject of this discussion. If something like that happens, you will be free to argue about that (or, you can create a separate thread about it). Don't try to muddle the issue here by introducing stuff that could possibly happen in the future and act as if that should influence the arguments we have now. > > > We're already on that road, there's no leap required to get to that, it's just the logical progression of "you gave us some of an ES w/out having to have it actively applied, why can't we just have all of them"... > If you have thought this out even for a second, you would understand that this is not only not a logical progression, but it's something completely impossible. > (hint: lot of espec mechanics conflict with each other or core mechanic - you simply _can't_ have more than one active at the moment). > > If you are not using something, it is ineffective, because it has no effect on whatever you're doing. This is basic logic, one does not have to have a degree in rocket science to figure it out. I really don't want to have to go through and list definitions for every word in a post, it's counterproductive when the responses equate to "Nuh uh"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aplethoraof.2643 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 This is pertinent to e-specs, but IMO as soon as you unlock an elite trait-line - all its weapons should be accessible even without its elite trait-line equipped. This would be a quick & dirty way to increase build diversity. It shouldn't be too overpowering (the weapons themselves are pretty well balanced). Additionally, it wouldn't hamper future plans to make e-specs change a weapon (assuming they want to peruse that line of speculated approach to e-specs). E-specs can still modify how a weapon acts, similar to how certain traits do now. It'd be no different to using a weapon without taking the trait-line that modifies that weapon (for example, using scepter without taking Curses GM#3 on Necromancer). IMO it would add a lot to build diversity without too much effort (I think?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 This thread goes into some thoughts on your suggestion. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/115860/there-a-reason-that-es-weapons-are-still-restricted-to-es/p1 Overall I like that weapons are tied to eSpecs and wouldn’t want to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 > @"Aplethoraof.2643" said: > This is pertinent to e-specs, but IMO as soon as you unlock an elite trait-line - all its weapons should be accessible even without its elite trait-line equipped. > > This would be a quick & dirty way to increase build diversity. It shouldn't be too overpowering (the weapons themselves are pretty well balanced). > > Additionally, it wouldn't hamper future plans to make e-specs change a weapon (assuming they want to peruse that line of speculated approach to e-specs). E-specs can still modify how a weapon acts, similar to how certain traits do now. > > It'd be no different to using a weapon without taking the trait-line that modifies that weapon (for example, using scepter without taking Curses GM#3 on Necromancer). > > IMO it would add a lot to build diversity without too much effort (I think?). The problem I have with that suggestion, which I already mentioned in another thread, is that some elite spec weapons would be way more restricted than others. For example, a reaper's greatsword would work perfectly fine without the reaper trait line, since that weapon has no specific trait in that line anyway (just 1 trait that increases melee damage and heals you for damage dealt, but it doesn't specifically change greatswords behaviour). Then there are other weapons, like holosmith's sword, which have a major part of their power budget directly linked to the elite spec. Without the heat mechanic, alot of the damage potential of the weapon is locked, meaning that it just becomes underwhelming. Not to mention that even more of it's damage is locked behind the trait enhanced capacity storage unit. In my opinion, this shouldn't be the case. Some classes would benefit more from such a change than others, since their weapons are not dependant on the elite spec mechanic or traits in the elite spec trait line and this unfair difference is hindering such a change for me. I prefer the system to stay as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. I, on the other hand, feel they should have some special fancy weapon, ideally complementing their playstyle. For me it feels better than the alternative would (reasons mentioned above by others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > > I, on the other hand, feel they should have some special fancy weapon, ideally complementing their playstyle. For me it feels better than the alternative would (reasons mentioned above by others). > > > And the weapons are also great additions for the flavour and thematics of an elite spec, like the lightsaber for holosmith or the staff for druid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > I, on the other hand, feel they should have some special fancy weapon, ideally complementing their playstyle. For me it feels better than the alternative would (reasons mentioned above by others). I don't feel like forcing Especs to adhere to their playstyle with a fancy weapon is a good thing though. This game is very strong when it comes to player build customization, allowing them to build how they want, with whatever they have at hand. Releasing weapons from the Especs will allow players to play with this customization even more. Especially with random nerf hammers slowly suffocating build choices atm, having more customization will be a breath of fresh air and encourage experimenting again, instead of waiting for the next major "balance" patch which will throw the entire community into chaos again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > I, on the other hand, feel they should have some special fancy weapon, ideally complementing their playstyle. For me it feels better than the alternative would (reasons mentioned above by others). > > I don't feel like forcing Especs to adhere to their playstyle with a fancy weapon is a good thing though. It's ok. I feel it's perfectly fine and I like it at its current state, but I'm not anet so our hopes and preferences mean just as much. > This game is very strong when it comes to player build customization, allowing them to build how they want, with whatever they have at hand. > > Releasing weapons from the Especs will allow players to play with this customization even more. > Especially with random nerf hammers slowly suffocating build choices atm, having more customization will be a breath of fresh air and encourage experimenting again, instead of waiting for the next major "balance" patch which will throw the entire community into chaos again. These weapons synergize with their especs in various degress, some are more dependant on their traits/mechanics than the others. Just enabling the weapons for core professions and claiming it will be good for the game by adding more builds might sound nice on paper, but isn't exactly correct. It will be a buff to some classes while leaving others pretty much empty handed. It's weird to me that you think doing that won't result in more"nerf hammers slowly suffocating build choices" that potentially could eaasly touch currently unrelated builds/weapons/specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalThought.9835 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I really like how e-specs each have a weapon. I just wish they had an additional weapon, therefore more weapon options would be possible and if future elites came out they could have different weapon skills. With this next expansion coming out, who knows how long it'll be before we see a profession with the weapons we'd like them to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. > > Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. > > I actually would prefer that as well. Elite specs would be a way of enhancing build capability while the weapons would be a way of expanding the general profession. It might demand some additional changes on some professions though but I think that would be worth doing. Condi Necro for example could make a great deal of use from having access to torch without Scourge and keeping it's shroud. I've messed with builds like this in the past by intentionally keeping most of the scourge line locked and using it without any traits so I could use Torch with shroud but it's a big sacrifice to give up a whole line for shroud lol But it was still fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 So, a question for those that would like weapons unlocked from eSpecs. Would you like all weapons available to all professions? Do you think limiting weapons has any merit or should it be a free for all for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. > > > > Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. > > > > > Condi Necro for example could make a great deal of use from having access to torch without Scourge and keeping it's shroud. > I've messed with builds like this in the past by intentionally keeping most of the scourge line locked and using it without any traits so I could use Torch with shroud but it's a big sacrifice to give up a whole line for shroud lol > But it was still fun to play. You mean you've used torch with core necro death shroud? ...how? And what not picking the scourge traits change about that? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > > > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. > > > > > > Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. > > > > > > > > Condi Necro for example could make a great deal of use from having access to torch without Scourge and keeping it's shroud. > > I've messed with builds like this in the past by intentionally keeping most of the scourge line locked and using it without any traits so I could use Torch with shroud but it's a big sacrifice to give up a whole line for shroud lol > > But it was still fun to play. > > You mean you've used torch with core necro death shroud? > ...how? And what not picking the scourge traits change about that? :D It's quite easy really ^^ The way Elite specs work at the moment, you have to unlock and equip the first minor adept trait in the elite spec trait line in order for the specific elite spec mechanics to take over and sometimes replace some core class mechanics. For Scourge specifically you have to have Mantle of the Sand active for the Shade mechanics to replace the Shroud mechanics. These minor adept traits are always automatically equipped once they are unlocked when you equip an elite spec trait line on your build and you can't manually deactivate them. If however you don't unlock these minor traits and only spend the 30 hero points you need to unlock the Elite Spec itself then you can equip the entirely locked elite spec trait line and gain access to the weapon proficiency trait that comes unlocked with the first 30 hero point investment. Basically you technically become a Scourge, Mirage, Reaper or Druid etc and you get to equip and use that Elite spec's specific weapon but you retain all of your core class's abilities, mechanics and skills etc while gaining none of the elite spec's specific mechanics and utility skills. It's a fun little trick that can confuse some people and make them go "What the kitten!!" when they see something like a Scourge using a Death Shroud xD But ultimately you have to sacrifice a whole trait line to do it so it's not very practical. It's just a fun little gimmicky build thing you can do if you want to :) With open world PvE being so easy though you can get some decent use out of many gimmicky builds so if you really want to run around with only two trait lines and spec weapons on your core class by all means have fun with it lol But keep in mind, once traits are unlocked they can't be locked again so this trick is only usable on characters who have not unlocked their elite specs yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > > > > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. > > > > > > > > Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > Condi Necro for example could make a great deal of use from having access to torch without Scourge and keeping it's shroud. > > > I've messed with builds like this in the past by intentionally keeping most of the scourge line locked and using it without any traits so I could use Torch with shroud but it's a big sacrifice to give up a whole line for shroud lol > > > But it was still fun to play. > > > > You mean you've used torch with core necro death shroud? > > ...how? And what not picking the scourge traits change about that? :D > > It's quite easy really ^^ > The way Elite specs work at the moment, you have to unlock and equip the first minor adept trait in the elite spec trait line in order for the specific elite spec mechanics to take over and sometimes replace some core class mechanics. > For Scourge specifically you have to have Mantle of the Sand active for the Shade mechanics to replace the Shroud mechanics. > These minor adept traits are always automatically equipped once they are unlocked when you equip an elite spec trait line on your build and you can't manually deactivate them. > > If however you don't unlock these minor traits and only spend the 30 hero points you need to unlock the Elite Spec itself then you can equip the entirely locked elite spec trait line and gain access to the weapon proficiency trait that comes unlocked with the first 30 hero point investment. > Basically you technically become a Scourge, Mirage, Reaper or Druid etc and you get to equip and use that Elite spec's specific weapon but you retain all of your core class's abilities, mechanics and skills etc while gaining none of the elite spec's specific mechanics and utility skills. > > It's a fun little trick that can confuse some people and make them go "What the kitten!!" when they see something like a Scourge using a Death Shroud xD > But ultimately you have to sacrifice a whole trait line to do it so it's not very practical. > It's just a fun little gimmicky build thing you can do if you want to :) > With open world PvE being so easy though you can get some decent use out of many gimmicky builds so if you really want to run around with only two trait lines and spec weapons on your core class by all means have fun with it lol > > But keep in mind, **once traits are unlocked they can't be locked again** so this trick is only usable on characters who have not unlocked their elite specs yet. Yeah, that's the reason I asked about that. I usually unlocked whole especs at once, so it didn't cross my mind to go about it this way. I won't bother doing that, because it seems pretty useless, but still a fun little trick, thanks for the explanation :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Balance wise, this will not work in PvP, and would probably be very only in fractals and raids. Though would be awesome in open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > I feel that Especs in general should not have some special fancy weapon tied to it. > > > > > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons, yet if yu wanna use those weapons, yu have to play the Espec. > > > > > > > > > > Why not just make a set of quests every expansion to collect new weapons for yur Professions, and have Espec as well as a separate unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Condi Necro for example could make a great deal of use from having access to torch without Scourge and keeping it's shroud. > > > > I've messed with builds like this in the past by intentionally keeping most of the scourge line locked and using it without any traits so I could use Torch with shroud but it's a big sacrifice to give up a whole line for shroud lol > > > > But it was still fun to play. > > > > > > You mean you've used torch with core necro death shroud? > > > ...how? And what not picking the scourge traits change about that? :D > > > > It's quite easy really ^^ > > The way Elite specs work at the moment, you have to unlock and equip the first minor adept trait in the elite spec trait line in order for the specific elite spec mechanics to take over and sometimes replace some core class mechanics. > > For Scourge specifically you have to have Mantle of the Sand active for the Shade mechanics to replace the Shroud mechanics. > > These minor adept traits are always automatically equipped once they are unlocked when you equip an elite spec trait line on your build and you can't manually deactivate them. > > > > If however you don't unlock these minor traits and only spend the 30 hero points you need to unlock the Elite Spec itself then you can equip the entirely locked elite spec trait line and gain access to the weapon proficiency trait that comes unlocked with the first 30 hero point investment. > > Basically you technically become a Scourge, Mirage, Reaper or Druid etc and you get to equip and use that Elite spec's specific weapon but you retain all of your core class's abilities, mechanics and skills etc while gaining none of the elite spec's specific mechanics and utility skills. > > > > It's a fun little trick that can confuse some people and make them go "What the kitten!!" when they see something like a Scourge using a Death Shroud xD > > But ultimately you have to sacrifice a whole trait line to do it so it's not very practical. > > It's just a fun little gimmicky build thing you can do if you want to :) > > With open world PvE being so easy though you can get some decent use out of many gimmicky builds so if you really want to run around with only two trait lines and spec weapons on your core class by all means have fun with it lol > > > > But keep in mind, **once traits are unlocked they can't be locked again** so this trick is only usable on characters who have not unlocked their elite specs yet. > > Yeah, that's the reason I asked about that. I usually unlocked whole especs at once, so it didn't cross my mind to go about it this way. > I won't bother doing that, because it seems pretty useless, but still a fun little trick, thanks for the explanation :D No prob ^^ I usually do the same thing too, unlock the spec in one go. I can't remember when I first figured out that you could do that little trick though, I know it was on Necro I remember being a Scourge with a torch and shroud lol But for most classes it is pretty pointless since you're just denying yourself spec benefits like Spellbreakers Full Counter or Reapers Shroud. Off the top of my head I'd think the most useful classes to do it on would be Necro, Mesmer and Ranger. Scourge with shroud instead of Shades. Soulbeasts with in combat Petswap but no Pet fusing.. loosing the utilities is also a big con too since SB has some of the best Ranger skills on it. And Mirage would get to keep their dodge mechanics instead of the Mirage Cloak. But yeah it's just a silly little gimmick thing and not very practical to give up a traitline for lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > A majority of the Especs being used right now don't even use their Espec weapons > Source? > I wonder about this, too. Just looking at the meta raid builds from snowcrows, the only elite specs not using their associated weapons are: Chronomancer, Scrapper and Dragonhunter. Hammer is still used fairly often in Scrapper builds. So that just leaves me with Chronomancer and Dragonhunter. That is **very** far away from the "majority". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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