Widmo.3186 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > @"Garret.1965" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed. > > > > > Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they _are_ in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back. > > > > > > > > Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...) > > > > > > Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively. > > > > > > That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once. > > > People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse. > > > > Ye, so going this way - in order to prevent further AoE spam now we should disable some skill indicators so they still work the same way, you just dont see red circles. Have you thought about joining balance team? I think you would match their thinking style xD > > Im sorry, but if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this. Even if its instant cast, theres a higher chance you dodge fast appearing red circle than bunch of small projectiles in middle of the fight > > I can ridicule your statement in the other direction as well, you know? > > "Oh fine, then if we need indication is so important that we need it on literally all skills, then we should also add red indicators for all other attacks. Cleaving sword attacks? Add a red cone to show what area the guy is hitting! Bow arrows, for example from rapid fire? Add red lines showing the exact area the arrows will travel! Let's see how useful your indicators will be if the entire ground is literally glowing in bright red because every single fart in this game will create a red indicator now!" > > For Grenade Barrage, I think you could add this since it is a pretty hard hitting skill. But I still think that adding this to **all** grenade skills is just going way overboard, considering how spammable these are. Imagine how the ground would look like if an engineer just keeps spamming grenades over the place while being buffed with quickness. > > Cluttering can have the opposite effect when it comes to clarity. If you are adding too much information, then the truly important information just goes unnoticed in the chaos. Sure you can. Show me sword autoattack that deals same amount of damage as nades and Ill agree. As you can see in my post I mentioned > if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this Dont hyperbolize with single target skills, I talked about nades specifically cuz u defended them in your post. And so then if something hitting so hard shouldnt have AoE indicator, why soft hitting ones should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > @"Garret.1965" said: > > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed. > > > > > > Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they _are_ in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back. > > > > > > > > > > Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...) > > > > > > > > Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively. > > > > > > > > That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once. > > > > People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse. > > > > > > Ye, so going this way - in order to prevent further AoE spam now we should disable some skill indicators so they still work the same way, you just dont see red circles. Have you thought about joining balance team? I think you would match their thinking style xD > > > Im sorry, but if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this. Even if its instant cast, theres a higher chance you dodge fast appearing red circle than bunch of small projectiles in middle of the fight > > > > I can ridicule your statement in the other direction as well, you know? > > > > "Oh fine, then if we need indication is so important that we need it on literally all skills, then we should also add red indicators for all other attacks. Cleaving sword attacks? Add a red cone to show what area the guy is hitting! Bow arrows, for example from rapid fire? Add red lines showing the exact area the arrows will travel! Let's see how useful your indicators will be if the entire ground is literally glowing in bright red because every single fart in this game will create a red indicator now!" > > > > For Grenade Barrage, I think you could add this since it is a pretty hard hitting skill. But I still think that adding this to **all** grenade skills is just going way overboard, considering how spammable these are. Imagine how the ground would look like if an engineer just keeps spamming grenades over the place while being buffed with quickness. > > > > Cluttering can have the opposite effect when it comes to clarity. If you are adding too much information, then the truly important information just goes unnoticed in the chaos. > > Sure you can. Show me sword autoattack that deals same amount of damage as nades and Ill agree. As you can see in my post I mentioned > > if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this > Dont hyperbolize with single target skills, I talked about nades specifically cuz u defended them in your post. And so then if something hitting so hard shouldnt have AoE indicator, why soft hitting ones should? I looked through wiki nades have more dps then Nades > Guard sword chain Nades > rev sword Nades > warrior sword ( ~30% more dps, more range and aoe ) holo sword > nades ( ofc only engi can beat engi XD ) Nades > ranger sword ( again about 25% - 30% more dps ) Nades > thief sword ( oddly enough thief sword has above average dps, huh ) Nades vs mesmer sword is odd one, with boon mesmer sword has same dps as other classes so it loses big time, but without a boon it can potentially have more dps assuming they fixed the bug, if not it has the same dps nades < mesmer sword no boon nades > mesmer sword boon final notes nades overpower most if not auto chains in the game, on top of being ranged AND aoe, AND not needing target ( so you can blast people in stealth, through walls or pre cast ) only thing that realistically can compare is another engi weapon, sword when under heat. to top it all off I counted entire attack CHAINS, they are HEAVILY weighted at the end, and nobody really gets hit by those, if I was only to count first 2 hits then nades would come up with something ridiculous like ~80-100% more dps then everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > > > @"Kodama.6453" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > @"Garret.1965" said: > > > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > > Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed. > > > > > > > Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they _are_ in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back. > > > > > > > > > > > > Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...) > > > > > > > > > > Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively. > > > > > > > > > > That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once. > > > > > People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse. > > > > > > > > Ye, so going this way - in order to prevent further AoE spam now we should disable some skill indicators so they still work the same way, you just dont see red circles. Have you thought about joining balance team? I think you would match their thinking style xD > > > > Im sorry, but if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this. Even if its instant cast, theres a higher chance you dodge fast appearing red circle than bunch of small projectiles in middle of the fight > > > > > > I can ridicule your statement in the other direction as well, you know? > > > > > > "Oh fine, then if we need indication is so important that we need it on literally all skills, then we should also add red indicators for all other attacks. Cleaving sword attacks? Add a red cone to show what area the guy is hitting! Bow arrows, for example from rapid fire? Add red lines showing the exact area the arrows will travel! Let's see how useful your indicators will be if the entire ground is literally glowing in bright red because every single fart in this game will create a red indicator now!" > > > > > > For Grenade Barrage, I think you could add this since it is a pretty hard hitting skill. But I still think that adding this to **all** grenade skills is just going way overboard, considering how spammable these are. Imagine how the ground would look like if an engineer just keeps spamming grenades over the place while being buffed with quickness. > > > > > > Cluttering can have the opposite effect when it comes to clarity. If you are adding too much information, then the truly important information just goes unnoticed in the chaos. > > > > Sure you can. Show me sword autoattack that deals same amount of damage as nades and Ill agree. As you can see in my post I mentioned > > > if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this > > Dont hyperbolize with single target skills, I talked about nades specifically cuz u defended them in your post. And so then if something hitting so hard shouldnt have AoE indicator, why soft hitting ones should? > > I looked through wiki > nades have more dps then > Nades > Guard sword chain > Nades > rev sword > Nades > warrior sword ( ~30% more dps, more range and aoe ) > holo sword > nades ( ofc only engi can beat engi XD ) > Nades > ranger sword ( again about 25% - 30% more dps ) > Nades > thief sword ( oddly enough thief sword has above average dps, huh ) > Nades vs mesmer sword is odd one, with boon mesmer sword has same dps as other classes so it loses big time, but without a boon it can potentially have more dps assuming they fixed the bug, if not it has the same dps > nades < mesmer sword no boon > nades > mesmer sword boon > > final notes > nades overpower most if not auto chains in the game, on top of being ranged AND aoe, AND not needing target ( so you can blast people in stealth, through walls or pre cast ) > only thing that realistically can compare is another engi weapon, sword when under heat. > to top it all off I counted entire attack CHAINS, they are HEAVILY weighted at the end, and nobody really gets hit by those, if I was only to count first 2 hits then nades would come up with something ridiculous like ~80-100% more dps then everything else. Are you counting the bonus bap from the ranged EE or just nades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 @"Vancho.8750" this is just nades. each nade throw hits for ~ 1.0 every 1s while most auto chains hit for ~ 1,5-1,7 while lasting over 2s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > They are white, poison is green, look at the hands than you see it > > Elite skill, Prime Light Beam - > super turbo light is gathering, big circle, over 1s cast time (atm 3dmg btw). > Utility, Nades - > instant cast, just look at hands loooool. Yeah! And what if we were color blind? More accessibility pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"Vancho.8750" this is just nades. > each nade throw hits for ~ 1.0 every 1s while most auto chains hit for ~ 1,5-1,7 while lasting over 2s > Holly hell, you made me think about it and I test it, then checked the slowest basic attack weapon The Reapers GS and nades do way more consistent damage then it. Like wtf why does slow melee weapon(supposedly designed to be slow but hit hard) deals less damage then a fast ranged weapon. Their design philosophy is getting way too wack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" this is just nades. > > each nade throw hits for ~ 1.0 every 1s while most auto chains hit for ~ 1,5-1,7 while lasting over 2s > > > Holly hell, you made me think about it and I test it, then checked the slowest basic attack weapon The Reapers GS and nades do way more consistent damage then it. Like kitten why does slow melee weapon(supposedly designed to be slow but hit hard) deals less damage then a fast ranged weapon. Their design philosophy is getting way too wack. > yep, I looked at 2handers to see the damage and warriors gs, guards gs, all had similar dps to 1handers ( other then base damage increase ), reaper gs had the most if memory serves right but still much less and stacked on the last hit from SUPER slow auto chain. Bottom line is, nades auto dps is higher then any weapon on any class other then 1 holo sword on high heat 2 mesmer sword against target without boons and even then its not only close, but also more consistent due to not being stacked heavily on 3rd hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables.4659 Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > How do you get that from what I wrote. Area marker for AoE on the ground. What do you mean how did I get it from what you wrote? You quite literally wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted November 8, 2020 Author Share Posted November 8, 2020 > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" this is just nades. > > each nade throw hits for ~ 1.0 every 1s while most auto chains hit for ~ 1,5-1,7 while lasting over 2s > > > Holly hell, you made me think about it and I test it, then checked the slowest basic attack weapon The Reapers GS and nades do way more consistent damage then it. Like kitten why does slow melee weapon(supposedly designed to be slow but hit hard) deals less damage then a fast ranged weapon. Their design philosophy is getting way too wack. > Been the trend in the game since February I think...they nerfed a lot of strong melee skills and left a lot of low risk ranged/AoE unnerfed (Renegade anyone??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Vancho.8750" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Vancho.8750" this is just nades. > > > each nade throw hits for ~ 1.0 every 1s while most auto chains hit for ~ 1,5-1,7 while lasting over 2s > > > > > Holly hell, you made me think about it and I test it, then checked the slowest basic attack weapon The Reapers GS and nades do way more consistent damage then it. Like kitten why does slow melee weapon(supposedly designed to be slow but hit hard) deals less damage then a fast ranged weapon. Their design philosophy is getting way too wack. > > > > Been the trend in the game since February I think...they nerfed a lot of strong melee skills and left a lot of low risk ranged/AoE unnerfed (Renegade anyone??). I'm still pissy about the Lich 1 1 1 , but at least necros kill themselves on reflects and I'm not sure if reflects work on nades most of the time, cause I think if they are thrown next to the reflect skill the explosion still hits. I think most of the issues come from the whole Explosions rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now