Anyone Else Feel Necro Will Get Shields For The New Spec??

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> The thing i want most is a main hand weapon, condo or hybrid, and a spec that doesn't use shroud but uses life force for other things, like scourge does.

 

Yeah me too, i feel like Necro shouldnt be defined as a shroud thing for extra survivability. Whatever they do to replace shroud i hope it plays like a classic Necromancer.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

>

> >

> > Your suggestion of a shroudless tank is interesting but it also sounds like a better version of core Necro, which brings up my top wish: rework core so it is actually useful. Even if Arenanet turned core into a "better" Minionmancer at least it would have a purpose.

> >

>

> Hmm they could create a blood / Bone espec that can work well with minions. Instead of a traditional shroud, what if we get a strong life syphon with all attacks, even pet attacks also syphon to you. We can get Blood/ Bone utility skills that provide bleeds and/or boons, and the Elite can be A Blood Skeleton that we can summon.

>

>

 

Don't think that's a good idea, take two good ideas, with their current very poor execution, and you get the worst spec in the game if everything is based on that.

 

1. The ai of necro minions is so freaking bad, why would anyone want more of that?

2. Lifesteal builds don't really work, because lifesteal effects have to be "bad" because lifesteal is offens and defense at the same time, so they will always be "bad" in pvp and engage pve.

 

So no. Please no lifesteal and please no minion spec. And especially not both combined. Also you already have that, just play blood magic/death magic and you get the lifesteal minionmancer .

 

I want something fresh.

[Obtena.7952]

I absolutely hope we don't get another off hand weapon ... because it's not like we got too much interesting choices to match with it. Plus, two new weapon skills for an elite spec is SO underwhelming and limited.

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> >

> > >

> > > Your suggestion of a shroudless tank is interesting but it also sounds like a better version of core Necro, which brings up my top wish: rework core so it is actually useful. Even if Arenanet turned core into a "better" Minionmancer at least it would have a purpose.

> > >

> >

> > Hmm they could create a blood / Bone espec that can work well with minions. Instead of a traditional shroud, what if we get a strong life syphon with all attacks, even pet attacks also syphon to you. We can get Blood/ Bone utility skills that provide bleeds and/or boons, and the Elite can be A Blood Skeleton that we can summon.

> >

> >

>

> Don't think that's a good idea, take two good ideas, with their current very poor execution, and you get the worst spec in the game if everything is based on that.

>

> 1. The ai of necro minions is so freaking bad, why would anyone want more of that?

> 2. Lifesteal builds don't really work, because lifesteal effects have to be "bad" because lifesteal is offens and defense at the same time, so they will always be "bad" in pvp and engage pve.

>

> So no. Please no lifesteal and please no minion spec. And especially not both combined. Also you already have that, just play blood magic/death magic and you get the lifesteal minionmancer .

>

> I want something fresh.

 

Lifesteal isnt bad on Legendary Renegade stances elite skill. Its amazing with a healer spec.

 

But i understand what youre saying. The only thing "New" i would see happening is a Bow or Shield that focuses on Bone skills. Or if you can summon a big bone summon with your life source and have a pet like ranger.

[Lily.1935]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > The thing i want most is a main hand weapon, condo or hybrid, and a spec that doesn't use shroud but uses life force for other things, like scourge does.

>

> Yeah me too, i feel like Necro shouldnt be defined as a shroud thing for extra survivability. Whatever they do to replace shroud i hope it plays like a classic Necromancer.

 

Health sacrifice, offensive party support, debuffing, glass cannon, minion master. Lots of options the necromancer of guild wars 2 hasn't touched.

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > The thing i want most is a main hand weapon, condo or hybrid, and a spec that doesn't use shroud but uses life force for other things, like scourge does.

>

> Yeah me too, i feel like Necro shouldnt be defined as a shroud thing for extra survivability. Whatever they do to replace shroud i hope it plays like a classic Necromancer.

 

Many players like myself have asked for a short range, main hand, condi-dps weapon since 2013. Scepter is a medium-long range weapon but it cannot burst conditions and has almost no cleave value.

[The Boz.2038]

Nah, fam. Longbow. Ranged power DPS.

[Scykosix.7836]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

 

The last thing a necro with 30K hp and 20k hp shroud needs, is a sustain build through shield.

[MatyrGustav.6210]

> @"Scykosix.7836" said:

> > @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> > I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

>

> The last thing a necro with 30K hp and 20k hp shroud needs, is a sustain build through shield.

 

Maybe they won't have a shroud if it's based on defense. Maybe they would use their life force to summon a powerful Skeleton. The life force could drain slowly while the Skeleton is summoned

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Scykosix.7836" said:

> > @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> > I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

>

> The last thing a necro with 30K hp and 20k hp shroud needs, is a sustain build through shield.

 

Well, ANet already proved that they can reduce base stats through e-spec (scrapper/berserker), so an e-spec can have it's base vitality reduced making 30k hp a lot more unlikely.

Anet also proved that the shroud isn't the only option possible for an e-spec (scourge), so the 20k hp shroud might very well be optional.

 

This mean that a sustain build through shield in a e-spec isn't an impossibility.

[BetweenHeadphones.6954]

Considering that the newly introduced especs always seem to be a lovechild of the core profession with another class, we recently have...

 

Reaper, necromancer + warrior, getting GS and shouts focussing on melee damage (power DPS/bruiser type)

 

Scourge, necromancer + mesmer, getting torch and desert shroud being a mix of shroud and phantasms. The utilities are also pretty much manipulation skills by their "good for me, bad for you" philosophy (midrange condi/support type)

 

What necro is still lacking is some kind of ranged spec. Therefore my guess is the new weapon being the longbow.

It could be the espec resulting out of an affair between our beloved core necromancer with the ranger class.

 

Class mechanic suggestion: your own, personal jes-... ehm... minion.

Shroud is replaced by an "animal companion" like Minion, who's there to protect you and getting in the middle of the fight. The life force mechanic is there to fuel your Minion, making it stronger the more life force you gather. By controlling your Minion you spend said life force. F1-F5 skills could be the attack/come back order, one trait-influenced big hitter and some nifty skills to protect the necromancer.

Bow skills could be long ranged dps (either raw power or maybe condi/hybrid damage with condition like torment and bleeding, some CC and one "oh shit, lemme get outta here"-button.

Utility skills could be commando skills inspired by the ranger utilities, giving you further options to control your minion(s) for offensive or defensive purposes.

Considering this, an overhaul of the already existing minions of core necromancer would be amazing or giving their active skills to the new minion instead (maybe with a reduced CD or further effects).

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"BetweenHeadphones.6954" said:

> What necro is still lacking is some kind of ranged spec. Therefore my guess is the new weapon being the longbow.

> It could be the espec resulting out of an affair between our beloved core necromancer with the ranger class.

>

> Class mechanic suggestion: your own, personal jes-... ehm... minion.

> Shroud is replaced by an "animal companion" like Minion, who's there to protect you and getting in the middle of the fight. The life force mechanic is there to fuel your Minion, making it stronger the more life force you gather. By controlling your Minion you spend said life force. F1-F5 skills could be the attack/come back order, one trait-influenced big hitter and some nifty skills to protect the necromancer.

> Bow skills could be long ranged dps (either raw power or maybe condi/hybrid damage with condition like torment and bleeding, some CC and one "oh kitten, lemme get outta here"-button.

> Utility skills could be commando skills inspired by the ranger utilities, giving you further options to control your minion(s) for offensive or defensive purposes.

 

That's a valid possibility and personally, I wouldn't mind ANet giving this, or something close, to the necromancer. (WvW player wouldn't like it thought, but it's not like the necromancer don't already have plenty of options for this gamemode)

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"BetweenHeadphones.6954" said:

> Reaper, necromancer + warrior, getting GS and shouts focussing on melee damage (power DPS/bruiser type)

 

I would say its closer to necro/guardian. Reaper GS has almost the exact same skills as guard GS.

1 Strong auto

2 strong spinning move

3 mid range ability that applies a debilitating condition

4 AOE field

5 a pull

 

It also has modifiers off chill, much like guard has modifiers off burning.

 

Also I get everyone's obsession with minions but I hope that is the exactly what the spec doesn't get.

 

 

[BetweenHeadphones.6954]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"BetweenHeadphones.6954" said:

> > Reaper, necromancer + warrior, getting GS and shouts focussing on melee damage (power DPS/bruiser type)

>

> I would say its closer to necro/guardian. Reaper GS has almost the exact same skills as guard GS.

> 1 Strong auto

> 2 strong spinning move

> 3 mid range ability that applies a debilitating condition

> 4 AOE field

> 5 a pull

>

> It also has modifiers off chill, much like guard has modifiers off burning.

>

> Also I get everyone's obsession with minions but I hope that is the exactly what the spec doesn't get.

>

>

 

On the other hand the shouts are more offensive in contrast to Guardian shouts and similar to warrior shouts. Well, It's not really important at this point, but we can agree on especs being merged versions of two classes ?

[Anchoku.8142]

Thoughts on future elite ideas

 

Shield - core Necro sustain is not lacking and Scourge can add to group sustain. Why add another sustain option?

 

Long range dps - core Necro has some pretty good area denial capability from short to long range so Arenanet will have to be careful adding ranged dps. Imagine if core Necro had potential to get 30k dps on staff. As Dadnir suggested, something has to change with sustain to pay for dps without getting into melee.

 

Personally, I am hoping for either a better core Necro (low-cleave melee) or a dedicated condi elite capable of group/squad condi management to make up for Scourge being nerfed into PUG barrier support.

 

[Obtena.7952]

People need to worry LESS about the actual weapon we get and more about the theme they come up with for the next espec. I think shields would be a terrible idea simply because the last thing we need is another offhand to pair with our substandard dagger, a reasonable-but-underused Axe and condi-weapon-specific Scepter.

 

Personally, I'm crossing my fingers for a 2H main.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Personally, I'm crossing my fingers for a 2H main.

 

This is something I would be surprised at.

 

 

[anduriell.6280]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

 

Sword would be cool but the reaper already has Greatsword, i don't see any improvements it could be done to improve that.

 

## Longbow the best option

I would love the necro to have access to 1500 Longbow, so the new spec has access to long range single target roaming class. Instead shooting projectiles it does life leech from the target, the projectiles goes in reverse from the target to the necro, healing the necro when the projectiles reach him. The projectiles are not homing projectiles but it work like the enemy shooted that against the necro current position. Fast projectile speed assures the projectile will reliably reach the necro but under specific circumstances (moving under superspeed, taking cover, target very far) the projectiles may fail. It would be something like an vampire dark ranger longbow.

 

**The necro would lose to swap weapons during combat as well**, as to downside to pick this specialisation (read the shroud section at the bottom)

 

##Balance the Inverted Projectiles Mechanic

To balance the mechanic all inverted attacks works this way: **1/3 of the packet damage is done with the first impact** (which is basically unblockable unless aegis, dodge or active blocking from target)) and when the projectile reaches the necro the rest of the packet is triggered as addtional damage (not unblockable and can be evaded) with crit chance (and crit effects) and a fixed healing for the necro at the same time. Those projectiles can be body blocked by enemies, walls or lost by LoS or evaded by the necro, in those cases the second part would not trigger.

 

##Longbow details

Longbow is depending LoS also except for the inverted barrage. **Projectile speed and attack speed is similar to ranger's Longbow. Weapon skills would be based in the original ranger's longbow**: One channelled burst of fast multiple attacks against a single target, One apply some stealth when the projectile reaches the necro, Other apply Fear in two phases, 1 second on hit and another 1s when the projectile reaches the necro, and one channelled ranged AoE similar to barrage where the projectiles follow an inverted pattern to ranger's barrage ( from ground to sky and sky to necro ) the full return should take around 1s to complete, this skill would be a big heal and almost unblockable as the only way for the necro to miss is to move under superspeed or dodge. CDs would be bigger than Ranger's Longbow to balance the fact it heals the necro.

 

##Aditional utility skills

**Skills would provide the additional missing tools for the spec to be completed**: Quickness, leaps, protection, an stunbreak, additional sustain (being more stealth or more healing) . The heal will apply an small heal and make the attacks to be piercing attacks (up to 5 targets) for a short time. Those piercing attacks still generate just 1 projectile but it damages up to 5 targets and heals by the same amount of hits . The elite will provide stability and a bunch of unblockable attacks (there is not need for much unblockable for this as the first part is "unblockable" but it is good to make sure the projectiles aren't destroyed on their way back) .

 

The skill set should have access to a total of 2 stun breaks, one in the heal skill another in the skill which will provide protection.

 

##Shourd mechanic

The shroud provides an additional 50% of the current HP as an special barrier which last for the shroud duration an current necro energy bar is managed in as similar fashion as the Druid mechanic, the shourd can only be used when the bar is full and for limited time. When using the Longbow skills or the specialization utility skills the bar will be filled quickly so the main limitations should be the 20s CD of the Shroud.

 

The Shroud will allow the necro to have a melee weapon set. The idea is for the necro to use ranged longbow and when the enemy get into melee transforms into a melee ball of pure destruction.

 

* A double sword shroud with access to fast attacks and fast mobility with leaps and evades plus some heavy burst.

* Damage is not high but the bursts attacks are no-rooting channelled fast attacks which allows the necro to move around while channelling.

* Leap will provide evade frames and it should be 600 range separated in two charges.

* Going into shroud will trigger "On Swap" effects.

* Shroud does not proc the life steal from the longbow.

 

 

##Traits

There will a be a weapon trait to reduce cooldowns on the Long bow and apply quickness if the range is superior to 900.

There will be an skill trait wich will provide swiftness and cleanse 2 conditions each time the new utilities are used.

Other trait will improve the new Shroud makingto have extra barrier ( up to 100% extra based in the current necro health ) .

Another trait to make the shroud to do more damage, it is good to have those effects separated so the player may pick more damage or more sustain but not both.

 

##Weak points - Counter play

* It does not have access to weapon swap during combat.

* Shroud CD is higher (20s CD) to allow counterplay once the necro returns to normal.

* It does not have access to more projectile block.

* Limited access to stability in the elite with long CD.

* The additional health provided by the shroud is based in current health, as such removing the possibility of an extreme tank with no investment.

* [soul Battery](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Battery) will increase the duration of the Nemesis Shroud instead adding more life force.

 

It would be called the Nemesis Specialization, because it has the potential to become the nemesis of a chosen target.

 

Do you like Nemesis? Because i do like the Nemesis.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> _Snip!_

> Do you like Nemesis? Because i do like the Nemesis.

>

 

The core necromancer sorely lack active defense in it's kit. Your spec might work if it wasn't the case but as it is, it would be chore to even begin to make it work (I mean, you double shroud CD and remove weapon swap to give what? A 2 charge leap with evade frame gated behind a shroud on a 20s CD and some heal that only work with LB?).

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Do you like Nemesis? Because i do like the Nemesis.

>

Nemesis retired from GW2 posts and videos years ago.

 

Also, core Necro has design characteristics that will make balancing a long range Elite dps troublesome so I do not see it happening. If you mean long range utility, that, too, is difficult without a substantial skill split in WvW.

 

Edit for clarity: Stacking

 

 

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > _Snip!_

> > Do you like Nemesis? Because i do like the Nemesis.

> >

>

> The core necromancer sorely lack active defense in it's kit. Your spec might work if it wasn't the case but as it is, it would be chore to even begin to make it work (I mean, you double shroud CD and remove weapon swap to give what? A 2 charge leap with evade frame gated behind a shroud on a 20s CD and some heal that only work with LB?).

 

This new spec will be a transversal change to how you play the necro thou and i understand it is difficult to warp the mind about this concept , it would change from an slow moving tank to a more fast paced DPS roamer.

 

I'm providing the ranger's best survival toolset and ranger's best roaming weaponS to the necro, additional stunbreaks on demand, access to cleanses, additional evades on demand, additional gap closers on demand, another stability on demand , access to Stealth on demand, unblockable attacks on demand, piercing attacks on demand.... Without any limitations which limits the ranger in zerg combat ( reflects will not reflect your LB attacks against your friendlies but it will heal the target and damage you directly )

 

 

Additionally the necro already have a lot of access to additional healing which will work while in shroud (remember now it works as a barrier not a second bar, so incoming heals will heal the necro while in shroud as well) . List of currently available traits:

 

1. Blood Bond — Cast Lesser Signet of Vampirism on your foe when you inflict bleeding on them that matches or exceeds the threshold.

2. Vampiric — Siphon health whenever you hit a foe. Minions siphon health and transfer it to you.

3. Vampiric Presence — You and your nearby allies siphon health with attacks. This effect increases while in Shroud.

4. Parasitic Contagion — A percentage of your condition damage heals you. Healing will not occur while life force replaces health.

5. Life from Death — Heal and partially revive allies in an area when you exit shroud.

6. Transfusion — Shroud skill 4 heals and partially revives nearby allies. Up to five nearby downed allies are teleported to you upon using shroud skill 4.

7. Unholy Sanctuary — Regenerate health while in shroud. If your life force is above the threshold, your shroud will activate if you would take a lethal blow. (this could ignore the requirement to have the life force bar full)

 

All those would work with the new spec shroud. I don't think the Nemesis would need more sustain on shroud and using LB will provide enough sustain by itself while the necro is not.

If you are planning to use another weapon just don't use the specs new heal, use any other from core. You still can have access to the other utilities wich will be useful either way.

 

I'm sure this spec if anything else will prove a very strong roaming / small teams. It needs some tradeoffs otherwise it would be simply too ridiculous.

 

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Also, core Necro has design characteristics that will make balancing a long range Elite dps troublesome so I do not see it happening. If you mean long range utility, that, too, is difficult without a substantial skill split in WvW.

 

I personally don't see those issues with balancing. This spec tradeoff the range for number of targets ( longer range for single target ). The shroud is melee so nullifies the range component while still be different mechanically from the Reaper shroud (faster attacks for less damage each) . If the Nemesis picks any other weapon then loses the range and sustain.

If the nemesis picks wells then it's sacrificing access to some of the new utilities. If he picks Lich Form then miss the stability and unblockable attacks.

 

Your bias may like it or not, but you can't objectively say the design is bad.

[Anchoku.8142]

Minions, wells, fear and staff come to mind as being particularly good at helping a long range specialization. All I am saying is to consider core Necro features and how they could be used to boost the elite's intent.

[Obfuscate.6430]

> @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

 

Oh my gosh YES! Bonewalls, paired with hexes so enemies injure themselves when attacking it. Ah YES please!

Maybe this would replace shroud and shades for example. Create barriers like Tequatl's bone wall. But gosh that would take a while to properly balance and make it fun.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Obfuscate.6430" said:

> > @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> > I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

>

> Oh my gosh YES! Bonewalls, paired with hexes so enemies injure themselves when attacking it. Ah YES please!

> Maybe this would replace shroud and shades for example. Create barriers like Tequatl's bone wall. But gosh that would take a while to properly balance and make it fun.

 

So stationnary minion(s) with retaliation and confusion... Just my opinion but the sPvP subforum would be extremly angry to see that.

[Obfuscate.6430]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Obfuscate.6430" said:

> > > @"MatyrGustav.6210" said:

> > > I think it would be awesome to have shields as a Necro. Also would be amazing to summon Stationary Bone Walls to hide behind. just some thoughts.

> > > I also would hope more weapons are being added to the classes outside the elite specs. For Necro I think The Main hand sword as a base weapon would be amazing as well.

> >

> > Oh my gosh YES! Bonewalls, paired with hexes so enemies injure themselves when attacking it. Ah YES please!

> > Maybe this would replace shroud and shades for example. Create barriers like Tequatl's bone wall. But gosh that would take a while to properly balance and make it fun.

>

> So stationnary minion(s) with retaliation and confusion... Just my opinion but the sPvP subforum would be extremly angry to see that.

 

-steeples her fingers- Yeeessssss