Why Gift of Battle?

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Just don't announce "i'm just here for GoB and i hate this mode, i'm leaving as soon as i get it". Cause then you're sending a wrong message.

> So, you're saying they should lie?

 

Well, if you want to put it like that, yes-- that's just common sense. Why would you discourage people from helping you? That's just dumb-- tell them only what they need to hear.

 

I mean that applies to anything lol.

 

"I really need help moving these heavy objects. Can you move them for me? I mean, I think moving heavy stuff is only for dumb people and beasts of burden, so I don't want to do it."

 

vs

 

"This is killing me. Can you help me move this, please?"

 

It's just easier to cooperate with people if you at least entertain the idea of a common goal, then bore them about being oppressed about having to do things that really aren't necessary.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > Just don't announce "i'm just here for GoB and i hate this mode, i'm leaving as soon as i get it". Cause then you're sending a wrong message.

> > So, you're saying they should lie?

>

> Well, if you want to put it like that, yes-- that's just common sense. Why would you discourage people from helping you? That's just dumb-- tell them only what they need to hear.

>

> I mean that applies to anything lol.

>

> "I really need help moving these heavy objects? Can you help me move them? I mean, I think moving heavy stuff is only for dumb people and beasts of burden, so I don't want to do it."

>

> vs

>

> "This is killing me. Can you help me move this, please?"

 

Pretty much this. If you announce it like "this is beneath me and i hate it but i have to do it so i deserve help" then you can expect some laughs at your expense. :wink:

[Gorani.7205]

I wanted to link to a thread that I vaguely remember was sticky'ed in the WvW forum concerning how to get a GoB, but I could not find it any more.

 

Perhaps it is important to give some "player etiquette" for PvE players that "loath" getting the GoB as well, so they will have a better experience, both for them and for dedicated WvW players.

 

1. Be neutral for Veteran Creatures.

Most WvW players ignore the Veterans you seek for the daily or to refresh your participation. If you see an WvW ally waiting for a Vet to respawn and he dashes off to defend a nearby camp (which you could do as well, but perhaps you really don't want to fight), please do not burst the Vet down on its spawn. Call out the Vet creature (especially the Harpy in Water Camp and the Warg at South camp, which is super close to a home spawn) and wait for a few seconds. Should you see an enemy waiting for a Vet to spawn, don't attack. Emote to him/her and share the kill. And after the Vet is dead, don't ambush the enemy if you happen to be on an advantageous build. You will most likely have earned the appreciation of the enemy for that behaviour and he might give you a pass on taking a camp (he can flip back), especially during off-hours and on reset day.

2. Step in and out of rings

If you have taken a sentry, a camp or even a tower and there is no enemy coming in or close by, take a look around for allies running towards you before you complete the ring and flip the objective. A few seconds of waiting will not hurt you and you have not only granted yourself the reset of the decay timer to 5 min or 10 minutes, but one ore more allies, too. This takes away the pressure of allied roamers taking away the "easy stuff", like sentries and Vets, you as a GoB seeker want to have for your casual progression.

While stepping out is important, stepping into rings is important when defending a circle. If you fight e.g. for a camp, help contesting the circle so re-enforcements can arrive and allies that commit to defence have a better chance of prevailing. It does not mean you should sacrifice yourself in an AoE death zone in the circle, just be aware of what you are doing outside of it.

3. Carry supply

Always carry supply. It does not matter whether you have a capacity of 10 or 20. Just pick up supply and carry the maximum load you have. Nothing is worse than following a random roamer to a cata built site and watching others run for 10 supply to finish it, while a person wanting the cap, but not committed to carry supply stands next to the blueprint a lets other people do the work.

4. Do not shed off enemies on allies

It will happen (frequently) that an enemy player will encounter you with a "red is dead" mind set (which is OK! This is a competitive mode after all) and try to kill you. Should an allied player come to save you, do not use this as a chance to run away and leave the ally to die (should you still be on the losing side). Commit to the fight. If you win, OK, if you lose you might have found a friend how is willing to run with you for a few objectives, can give you advice on what you did wrong in that situation, or simply is sorry he came to late to save you. Don't use allies as shields your own wish to not engage in any fights.

5. Enemies first, NPCs second

If you fight over an objective, most likely a camp and an enemy joins the fight, you should focus on the enemy and not an NPC or dolly. It will frustrate WvW players a lot, to see you focus fire on a dolly (because you want the daily caravan disruptor), when the same amount of damage dealt to the enemy could have made you win the fight. You should always redirect your damage to the enemy and not try to finish off an NPC. Rallying off (or killing) a NPCs will happen as a by-product.

6. Rezz allies

Perhaps you don't fighting and you are probably losing the skirmish you are in? It doesn't matter for the WvW player, because he is used to die several times during his game time in WvW. Should you stand next to a downed ally, try to rezz. Nothing makes allies more angry than trying to get close to you when they are downed (Eles, Thieves, Mes with the ability to move in downed state) and you keep auto attacking over their bleeding out bodies. You will earn some great respect from WvW players if you are willing to rezz, even when it fails and you get wiped.

7. Blueprints are not junk for WvW players

You just want your GoB and have no use for the blueprints you get on the way? Just send them to the people you have played with the past few minutes. WvW players, especially commanders will need a lot of superior rams and catapults and if you will send them the blueprints, they don't have to use their resources to purchase them themselves. Should you follow a larger zerg, just count the number of rams and catas dropped at towers and keeps and you will understand how much the WvW players wil appreciate the donations you can make to them.

8. Walk in their shoes

Finally, have you ever thought about how much trouble it is for a dedicated WvW player to get the items he/she needs for a legendary, that come to you at a steady and easier pace? Fractal Matrices e.g., because they don't do Fractals. T6 Mats, because they don't farm meta events or Drizzlewood etc.. Large quantities of T5 wood T5 Mithril that come from your "x" alts at farming spots you cycle through daily ...

If you are honest in your observation, you might discover that a few hours of WvW once in a while is no reason to complain as loud as you might have done about the Gift of Battle.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> I wanted to link to a thread that I vaguely remember was sticky'ed in the WvW forum concerning how to get a GoB, but I could not find it any more.

>

> Perhaps it is important to give some "player etiquette" for PvE players that "loath" getting the GoB as well, so they will have a better experience, both for them and for dedicated WvW players.

>

> 1. Be neutral for Veteran Creatures.

> Most WvW players ignore the Veterans you seek for the daily or to refresh your participation. If you see an WvW ally waiting for a Vet to respawn and he dashes off to defend a nearby camp (which you could do as well, but perhaps you really don't want to fight), please do not burst the Vet down on its spawn. Call out the Vet creature (especially the Harpy in Water Camp and the Warg at South camp, which is super close to a home spawn) and wait for a few seconds. Should you see an enemy waiting for a Vet to spawn, don't attack. Emote to him/her and share the kill. And after the Vet is dead, don't ambush the enemy if you happen to be on an advantageous build. You will most likely have earned the appreciation of the enemy for that behaviour and he might give you a pass on taking a camp (he can flip back), especially during off-hours and on reset day.

I have often been ganked waiting for veterans. I don't like it, but I look at it as "well, I'm playing in this sandbox, so I have to deal with whatever comes." Yeah, it's annoying but that's how things sometimes go.

 

What really peeved me about WvW was being downed and not finished while the opponent emoted on my dying corpse. Ok, I get it. You beat me. Get on with it. But no, they'd rather dance and emote over me in some epeen showing. Things like this are what has kept me out of that format. Some would argue that if I were to git gud then I wouldn't be downed and could then emote over my own, unfortunate victims. Meh. It's not my play style. Don't get me wrong: I'm glad that this format is available for those who enjoy it. I simply don't, and loathe any time that I engage with it.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> I wanted to link to a thread that I vaguely remember was sticky'ed in the WvW forum concerning how to get a GoB, but I could not find it any more.

>

> Perhaps it is important to give some "player etiquette" for PvE players that "loath" getting the GoB as well, so they will have a better experience, both for them and for dedicated WvW players.

 

Is there anything in that thread that mentioned advice for WvW players and commanders to make the experience better for their reluctant allies?

 

 

[Gorani.7205]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> What really peeved me about WvW was being downed and not finished while the opponent emoted on my dying corpse. Ok, I get it. You beat me. Get on with it. But no, they'd rather dance and emote over me in some kitten showing. Things like this are what has kept me out of that format. Some would argue that if I were to git gud then I wouldn't be downed and could then emote over my own, unfortunate victims. Meh. It's not my play style. Don't get me wrong: I'm glad that this format is available for those who enjoy it. I simply don't, and loathe any time that I engage with it.

 

Emoting on your dead body, sending whispers with insults and throwing down siege blueprints on you is showing the emotional development of a five year old that is throwing a tantrum at the supermarket cash out, because he does not get an ice cream from his parents. Don't get aggravated by their immature behaviour. It happens, because it might be the only chance those players have to feel superior during a day in their dull life.

 

I know it happens, I know it happens more often than it should, but I have not encountered a player that applauds that behaviour in a while. You would would be surprised how often those people get scolded by allies for being such bad winners of a fight, among WvW veterans

[Gorani.7205]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> Is there anything in that thread that mentioned advice for WvW players and commanders to make the experience better for their reluctant allies?

 

I can't remember, but I think communication is a key element. I don't mean "get on discord / TS etc.". That has never worked the past years. I mean tell the reluctant allies what they can do, what they should do and what to expect. Do that in local chat (e.g. if suddenly six people are at the camp you are capping) or in map chat, if you want to reach for a bigger "audience".

I don't lead big zergs, but I try to find PUGs for some more ambitious goals on the map. Those are things I do.

1. "Anybody game for attacking [tower ping]?" communication

Call out what you want them to do with you. If you want to reach uninitiated players, ping the objective. Those people will not know "Sunny" or "NC". Typing out the objective or ping it, so they can learn how to read the map. Don't start when nobody is joining and complain about it later. When you are not happy with building a cat all by yourself it is your fault when you fail at the attempt, not the fault of people that decided not to join you.

2. Expect low supply

If you have not reminded players to bring supply, don't be surprised if a 3 man team does not have 60 supply to build a SupCata. Tell people to do supply runs and stay on the blueprint yourself. Don't send them alone, if you can. You should rather stay back at the blueprint alone than leave the new players there. They will feel more secure and willing to leave the tag, if they have a task to do and don't have to go by themselves.

3. Expect a slow pace

As a PUG commander, expect to be moving across the map at a slower pace. GoB hunters will dash off to a sentry or a Veteran. Sometimes it is useful to include them into your path to victory. Of course it is not the best to stand revealed on a sentry, but it is better to keep the group together than to lose one or two to aggressive roamers that pick off lonely people on a sentry ring.

4. What WE can do to improve ...

Eventually you will get wiped. Never tell the PUGs they should have been better. You lead them, you need to take the responsibility to analyse the defeat an offer a solution. "WE did badly because ..." An experienced WvW player will find a weak spot and can make suggestions to be better next time, like "we did not fight in the circle", "we had no lookouts and did not see them coming to defend", "we got downed, because we stayed in the AoE of profession xy". e.g. Yesterday I played with an Dead Eye ally and we go killed by a Condi Scourge in a confined place. I told him why (to using ranged attacks, both of us having to endure Condi AoE without being able to split up and divide the condition onslaught) and said he should stay at range with his rifle the next time he sees the Scourge. I also told him, it was my fault for not killing him a few minutes earlier, when I did not fully commit to the first attack, because I thought the Scourge was on his way to the daily Vet. No blaming, just communication. Ten minutes later, just before I logged out, the DE whispered me and told me, he almost killed the Scourge at range. He improved and nobody felt bad for having been killed.

6. Don't get pressured by the "noobs"

Just because you have chosen to lead a PUG group of reluctant allies does not mean, you have to do what they want (e.g. attack tower or keep for daily). If you think the attack will most likely fail, tell them you are not ready to attack or you are not even planning to attack at all. Do not feel pressured by their "wants", if you can give them what they "need" (which is the feeling "of progressing") for an extended period of time. As a WvW player focusing on being the "winning server" having a stable group of 5 people over to roam the map for one hour is better than a low morale mob of ten, that disbands after the daily structure was taken.

 

Of course there are tactics and strategy to teach and learn, but I think the few things written above can help to turn reluctant allies in search of an easy GoB into more reliable, casual, daily soldiers for your server and more organized commanders.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > Is there anything in that thread that mentioned advice for WvW players and commanders to make the experience better for their reluctant allies?

>

> I can't remember, but I think communication is a key element. I don't mean "get on discord / TS etc.". That has never worked the past years. I mean tell the reluctant allies what they can do, what they should do and what to expect. Do that in local chat (e.g. if suddenly six people are at the camp you are capping) or in map chat, if you want to reach for a bigger "audience".

> . . .

> Of course there are tactics and strategy to teach and learn, but I think the few things written above can help to turn reluctant allies in search of an easy GoB into more reliable, casual, daily soldiers for your server and more organized commanders.

 

:blush: You seem like someone I'd like to follow in WvW. I've gotten so used to WvW folks being very insular, praising some of the changes to commander tags that made it even worse, and generally not willing to meet inexperienced players halfway. It's not just the player vs player aspect that turns off the typical PvE player from WvW, it's their own allies' lack of communication and invitation that makes the experience miserable and lonely.

So, thanks for showing advice to both sides!

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Also, i don't think the poster before was generalizing, to me it looked more like an example. Of course people are more complicated than this. But i think he was referring specifically to people who are then toxic towards the mode and start overexaggerating. That *those* people have their power fantasy shattered. Not all people that are for example anxious even when winning, because at least those people are trying and probably aren't spamming "this mode is spawncamping toxic kitten".

> Except that this is a generalization as well.

>

> People can get uncomfortable and angry for a kittenton of reasons. For example, I have personally seen, in times past, a lot of cases of WvW "duelists" that went totally crazy (including sending flamebombs at everyone around, including those not involved) when their duels were interfered with (usually by accident, by the way). There were also cases when angry WvW players went on forums and reddit in order to protest when someone interfered in their GvG match (this happens less now, with the arena in Obsidian Sanctum, but was a _lot_ more common when those matches were held in the Borderlands). There were also cases of _other_ WvW players getting angry at seeing a number of people occupying a map for a GvG match, ignoring everything else, when their side was losing. Compared to some of those cases, the posts about GoB here are really tame in comparison. And those were all veteran WvW players, completely fine with fighting, losing and not anxious about it at all. But each of them was playing with a specific mindset that wasn't 100% compatible with this gamemode.

>

> Generally, the main problem with GoB is that people that get into WvW for it are usually in a mindset of _farming GoB_. Not of playing WvW. Anything else is a distraction at best, an active hindrance (and something they hate to see) at worst.

>

> It's a case as if you were asked to make an obstacle course when you went out to your local market. You'd be unlikely to acknowledge the fact that obstacle courses can be fun. And if part of that obstacle course would be _other people actively trying to prevent you from reaching the goal_... well, you get the picture?

>

> That person might not even be bad at all this, but that doesn't mean they'd want to see it _on their way to the market_.

>

 

I think you're overthinking what the person said but whatever. :tongue:

I think he was specifically commenting on raging while being dead while complaining about spawncampers and such. In that case it's clearly not about getting their dules interrupted, it's not about GvG matches, it's about, like you said - their way to the farmers market. When they go to the "store" (PvE), there's no obstacles, but the farmers market alway had them. They were never not there, so getting angry when you encounter an obstacle (other players), is irrelevant. There was never a way to get to the "farmers market" without obstacles. And it doesn't help ignoring the obstacle course because then you'll just trip and fall. Since to get to the farmers market you need to go through the obstacle course, the only real course of action is to familiarize yourself with them.

 

To use your analogy:

 

The person wishes the obstacle course wasn't there so he can just get into the farmer's market and get their GoB. But the obstacle course was there and isn't going anywhere. Still, the person ignores the obstacle course hoping they'd get to the farmers market anyway and trips (dies to player or whatever). Then they see that this is not the "general store" and that they can't just walk in there and get stuff. That they're not this "all powerful person" that nothing ever happens to, and since they ignored the obstacle course, they rage.

 

That's what i think the "power fantasy shattered" comment was about.

But it's best that the person who wrote that comments, rather than us discussin what someone might mean.

This is just my opinion on what he said. Of course there's thousands of different situations, but i think this was tied to this specific one.

 

Oh well...

 

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> WvW is very relax,,, u just started it wrong(roaming) roaming(solo fights) in wvw is almost for experienced players, avoid duels, this is toxic per nature, and here in forums dont mind with roamers in forum, they are almost over-passionate with this gamestyle and think this is best thing on the world.

>

> just figure out was best timezone to try zerging,, wvw is all about timezone and zerging, my serve is completely dead on some dayhours and others timezones have lots of guilds and people running.

>

> But if u server is dead anyway, try pay attention to scouts alerts on chat, people scouting always call help for stuff. so is here where u try engage.

 

I don't think it's fair to call a PvP style mode "toxic per nature". There's nothing toxic about it when the game mode itself is made around the fact that 2 or more people need to fight each other. If you get killed in such an environment - that doesn't make the person who killed you toxic and it's unfair to veiw it as such. The toxicity only happens when the person who killed you starts harrasing you with comments that are various degrees of (let's say) hurtful.

 

And even that depends on the mindset of people recieving those comments and how they might interpret that communication.

 

Personally, i recieved a bunch of comments that many would find "toxic", but upon talking to that person - you realize they're not, they're just playing the game and saying something like "lol i killed you 3 times now" isn't toxic, it's normal. How you react determines a lot as well. You could say "yeah, nice! what build are you using, you're hard to kill" then start theorycrafting with "the enemy", or you can get triggered and get angry for getting killed.

 

But most of that is "your" (the person recieving "toxicity") fault. Not someone elses because all they did was play the game mode and brag a little about their accomplishments.

 

If they somehow cross the line into hatespeech, then you could argue that yea, this is toxic, but also not "toxic by nature" because the game mode is "toxic by nature". Then that person is, and by no fault of the game mode.

 

Other than that - your other points are helpful. :smile:

 

> @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > What really peeved me about WvW was being downed and not finished while the opponent emoted on my dying corpse. Ok, I get it. You beat me. Get on with it. But no, they'd rather dance and emote over me in some kitten showing. Things like this are what has kept me out of that format. Some would argue that if I were to git gud then I wouldn't be downed and could then emote over my own, unfortunate victims. Meh. It's not my play style. Don't get me wrong: I'm glad that this format is available for those who enjoy it. I simply don't, and loathe any time that I engage with it.

>

> Emoting on your dead body, sending whispers with insults and throwing down siege blueprints on you is showing the emotional development of a five year old that is throwing a tantrum at the supermarket cash out, because he does not get an ice cream from his parents. Don't get aggravated by their immature behaviour. It happens, because it might be the only chance those players have to feel superior during a day in their dull life.

>

> I know it happens, I know it happens more often than it should, but I have not encountered a player that applauds that behaviour in a while. You would would be surprised how often those people get scolded by allies for being such bad winners of a fight, among WvW veterans

 

Siege blueprints is a WvW meme, not something to get insulted by. I saw my own guild drop siege blueprints on our own corpses and everyone had a good laugh.

It's just some harmless fun. For that, or dancing, it's kind of your own fault for taking it too seriously. It's just a joke. Remember, most of those people are playing WvW **constantly** on the same-ish maps, same-ish objectives and just relinked servers. Just like in PvE, sometimes you need a bit of fun in addition to just playing the mode.

 

And you calling people 5 year olds because of that is pretty insulting for no reason.

Take the joke, respawn and go about your business.

 

WvW is competitive mode, but also, the community of everyone, even enemy servers, is pretty tight. Especially since you can get relinked and get allied with a server you fought last week. So everyone is pretty laid back. Death doesn't mean anything in WvW other than an opportunity to learn from your mistakes. With that in mind, someone dancing overs your corpse or throwing siege at you also doesn't mean anything other than a joke.

[Hesione.9412]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > I wanted to link to a thread that I vaguely remember was sticky'ed in the WvW forum concerning how to get a GoB, but I could not find it any more.

> >

> > Perhaps it is important to give some "player etiquette" for PvE players that "loath" getting the GoB as well, so they will have a better experience, both for them and for dedicated WvW players.

>

> Is there anything in that thread that mentioned advice for WvW players and commanders to make the experience better for their reluctant allies?

 

Don't complain about the person throwing siege that isn't guild or superior.

1. Most players don't have enough access to a guild bank that enables them to take the better siege.

2. If they're on a mainly empty map, yes basic arrowcarts can be annoying. But if they can get into towers with basic rams, or get walls down with basic trebs, all power to them. If comms aren't filling defence positions (which is where the complaints tend to be directed) with better defensive siege, then they should be happy that someone, anyone, has put something down in order to defend.

 

For any new players reading this, please don't use the tactics (levers). We've had enough of players trolling by pulling invuln fortifications or the emergency waypoint (EWP). Unless the tower or keep is under active attack, don't use these.

 

Important note on tactics: _Any_ interaction with a tactic will activate it. Any. Don't interact. If you are curious about whether the tactic is available, you click on the blue circle of the objective, and it will show any cooldowns that are active. For example, the EWP has a 20 minute cooldown: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Schematic:_Emergency_Waypoint

 

Another important note on tactics: sometimes t1 or higher objectives are missing tactics. Feel free to call this out on map chat. That way someone, who can add tactics, knows that it might be useful to put something on. I wouldn't be too worried if the objective isn't t1 (has no shield on the circle). But I would be concerned if it was t2 (two shields) or t2 (three shields, maximum tier).

[Witch of Doom.5739]

I'm a PvE'er who doesn't particularly like WvW. I find it repetitive and boring although I've met many great players there. It's just not my style. That said, I'm working on my 4th Legendary Weapon so the Gifts of Battle are a necessity and I've put in the time to get them. I do one or two dailies per day, easy points, and run around the Borderlands with my guild once in a while on weekends. It takes me a long time to get a GoB, but I'm farming everything else I need for a Legendary too, so what's the rush?

 

As others have said: If you want a Legendary, either put in the time and effort to get the components, or buy it off the TP.

[SunTzu.4513]

After i've done my first leggy there was one thing that i've learned: I don't like wvw. It's just not my cake of gameplay and game mode. So i started to think how i can ''avoid'' it. My solution is to do easy dailys on the wvw maps if i'm half full of the reward track i start to gather the other stuff i needed. Atm i even feel it's easier to get a gob this way than doing map completion over and over again for gift of exploreration wich feels after 8 leggys way more tedious than getting a gob. Honestly i think pvp/wvw players are more screwed to do things outside of their main gamemode to get leggy weapons than us pve players.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > I wanted to link to a thread that I vaguely remember was sticky'ed in the WvW forum concerning how to get a GoB, but I could not find it any more.

> >

> > Perhaps it is important to give some "player etiquette" for PvE players that "loath" getting the GoB as well, so they will have a better experience, both for them and for dedicated WvW players.

> >

> > 1. Be neutral for Veteran Creatures.

> > Most WvW players ignore the Veterans you seek for the daily or to refresh your participation. If you see an WvW ally waiting for a Vet to respawn and he dashes off to defend a nearby camp (which you could do as well, but perhaps you really don't want to fight), please do not burst the Vet down on its spawn. Call out the Vet creature (especially the Harpy in Water Camp and the Warg at South camp, which is super close to a home spawn) and wait for a few seconds. Should you see an enemy waiting for a Vet to spawn, don't attack. Emote to him/her and share the kill. And after the Vet is dead, don't ambush the enemy if you happen to be on an advantageous build. You will most likely have earned the appreciation of the enemy for that behaviour and he might give you a pass on taking a camp (he can flip back), especially during off-hours and on reset day.

> I have often been ganked waiting for veterans. I don't like it, but I look at it as "well, I'm playing in this sandbox, so I have to deal with whatever comes." Yeah, it's annoying but that's how things sometimes go.

>

> What really peeved me about WvW was being downed and not finished while the opponent emoted on my dying corpse. Ok, I get it. You beat me. Get on with it. But no, they'd rather dance and emote over me in some kitten showing. Things like this are what has kept me out of that format. Some would argue that if I were to git gud then I wouldn't be downed and could then emote over my own, unfortunate victims. Meh. It's not my play style. Don't get me wrong: I'm glad that this format is available for those who enjoy it. I simply don't, and loathe any time that I engage with it.

 

Oh those tryhards.

 

Yea nobody likes them and feel free to call the map on them. Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

[Mauzi.5892]

People hate getting the Gift in WvW, because they know they get killed by an actual human, instead of a NPC. If you can overcome that issue, which is entirely YOUR issue and not a WvW or GoB one, then you are golden. Just treat WvW as a map-wide meta event like Octovine.

People usually write in chat where help is needed. Go there. Do damage, heal, repair, whatever. Live or die. Profit. Sooner that you'll know, time will pass and you get your GoB without even realising it.

And if you die, just port to the nearest Waypoint. Works exactly like in PvE.

 

This just in addition to all other things that have been already said.

 

 

And no, GoB should not be buyable or tradable. Especially not for Badges of Honor. And if people would actually think for a second, you would realise that that's even worse. Right now the WvW track is so easy to do.

Now imaging you need BoH to buy it. It's not harder, just different. How do you get those? Correct.... by actually "playing" WvW. Which is the reason people are complaining in the first place.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

 

[Coelho Nat.4697]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

>

I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Coelho Nat.4697" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

> >

> I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Coelho Nat.4697" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> > > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

> > >

> > I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

> This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

> This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

 

Well, as I believe I said before, if I'm out in WvW for a daily vet in enemy territory and I get wiped, I know that I deserve it for playing in that sandbox. Does it annoy me? Sure, but I don't "blame" the player for it. I do appreciate those who do "respect" the neutral spots, but I never expect them to do so.

[Seera.5916]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Coelho Nat.4697" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> > > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

> > >

> > I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

> This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

> This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

 

I do the PvE type dailies in WvW.

 

I appreciate those who wait until I've claimed the objective before jumping in and those who ignore me entirely. I do not expect them to do so.

 

Do I get annoyed at it? Yes, I've got to run back to try again, but it's just the same annoyed I get when an NPC champion by a hero challenge in PvE kills me.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

> This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

I kept hearing this all the time at some point. And then i saw the very same people asking to ban players that interfered in their GvG matches. Because apparently griefing is good only when it doesn't affect you personally.

 

Basically, the ruleset for the gamemode is one thing. Stuff you do (and the reasons behind them) are another. That ruleset in no way prevents you from being civil. Or from intentionally griefing.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, this is all very horrifically subjective, and you can never tell what a random player will think. For example, some players will see a guildie on another server and ignore them; if you do that, I'm actually more likely to kill you. xD

 

A lot of players like me don't stomp in 1v1s if the other side tries to fight; we're actually more likely to finish you off if you just flat out surrender or run. On the other hand, other players simply don't care and will attack regardless.

 

However, I would like to point out a counterargument against playing cutthroat even for WvW players. And yes, it's a sandbox, and you can do whatever you want for rules, but it doesn't mean etiquette has no value. For example, players ignoring each other doing dailies and then fighting has a certain QoL value. You're both benefiting each other. If people drive all the enemies off the map, then oftentimes they can't do their own dailies or even keep up participation (if they care)

 

If you BM everyone that comes across you, then nobody is going to want to fight you and simply group up to blob you off the map. And if you just mindlessly outnumber and blob people off a map, the result is that you'll get nobody to fight, and it'll become very boring. In many cases, not displaying etiquette will escalate matters; meaning you'll see more hit and run builds, even bigger blobs, and even double teaming efforts to get rid of entire servers/guilds that show poor behavior, because nobody wants to play with you.

 

I like to compare it to poker where image can matter a lot. If you're someone that constantly folds everything but pocket aces, then eventually you'll get no action because everyone knows better. Better players that are known to take risks every now and then, tend to get their good hands paid off a lot more as people are more willing to play with them.

 

As for those people coming into this from the pve side of things, it'll probably help you a lot to know that what objectives an average WvW player isn't going to give up under any circumstance. For example, a camp that is feeding into a keep that needs to get to t3. If you go for those, then you're probably going to die no matter how you are. You just have to read the situation better. Oh, I forgot if anyone mentioned this, but desert is usually less cared about and thus easier to get dailies or reward tracks from.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"DanielKingston.3947" said:

> IIt's simply about WANTING to do WvW to EARN the Gift of Battle and HAVING TO PUT WITH this kind of toxicity in game, what should I do to avoid it, play by myself in a TEAM BASED mode with chat off?

>

 

Yes this is precisely what you should do. Team chat is only somewhat useful in WvW as it is. If you want true team based gameplay for WvW I advise you to join a WvW guild and communicate with them via their channels, whether those are in game or on discord. This is what most groups do anyway, so most of the “team coordination” isn’t happening on Team chat anyway.

 

Also I doubt anyone is calling you out specifically in team chat. If they are then they’re kittens and you can hit block, just like any other game mode. PvP and PvE are far more toxic honestly

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Coelho Nat.4697" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> > > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

> > >

> > I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

> This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

> This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

 

There's a lot of unwritten ettiquette in WvW that are of course, created by the players, not the game mode as they're not a mechanic.

Doesn't make it less valid.

 

Like i previously said - guild raids usually don't attack roamers, even if they're right in the middle of our blob. There's nothing really to gain here and it's just annoying to people to get stomped by 20+ people when not being able to do anything about it. You're there to fight guilds, not get easy kills so attacking single people is just rude at that point. Public zergs are a different thing, they're there to cap stuff and kill everyone in their way. But if you're doing a raid and your goal is to fight other groups with your guild, it doesn't make sense to harrass roamers. I've even had situations where there's 3 guilds, and 1 guild will wait out the fight between the 2 opposing ones.

 

Same with having neutral areas. No you don't have to respect them, but not doing so is rude, and when it happens to you it's not as fun right? So why inflict it on others.

If you must attack, wait for the veteran to drop dead, have the player get their daily, then get your easy kill if you really need it.

But i've also seen people not attack someone who is afk or doesn't fight back. Unless they're in a keep you just broke into because then you're just leaving a player inside to easily take the keep back, so that's understandable.

 

It's why you stay away whenever you see 2 people fighting. Because it's probably a duel and you jumping in and "saving" your server's player will just anger both of them.

If someone attacks you as you're watching, then you just got an invitation to join in and wipe the pavement with them. Other than that, the unwritten ettiquette is to not interfere.

 

Game mode is after all just that - a mode, it's not law, and beyond the necessary mechanics, players are the ones who "make" the mode. And a little empathy never hurt anyone, especially not letting PvErs do their daily, so players due to this made some unwritten ettiquette to make it a better place for everyone. You don't need to follow the rules, but it's nice to do so once in a while because it doesn't really affect the match or your server in any way. Especially if you let someone kill a veteran.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Coelho Nat.4697" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them.

> > > > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster.

> > > >

> > > I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob.

> > This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode.

> > This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread.

>

> There's a lot of unwritten ettiquette in WvW that are of course, created by the players, not the game mode as they're not a mechanic.

> Doesn't make it less valid.

>

> Like i previously said - guild raids usually don't attack roamers, even if they're right in the middle of our blob. There's nothing really to gain here and it's just annoying to people to get stomped by 20+ people when not being able to do anything about it. You're there to fight guilds, not get easy kills so attacking single people is just rude at that point. Public zergs are a different thing, they're there to cap stuff and kill everyone in their way. But if you're doing a raid and your goal is to fight other groups with your guild, it doesn't make sense to harrass roamers. I've even had situations where there's 3 guilds, and 1 guild will wait out the fight between the 2 opposing ones.

>

> Same with having neutral areas. No you don't have to respect them, but not doing so is rude, and when it happens to you it's not as fun right? So why inflict it on others.

> If you must attack, wait for the veteran to drop dead, have the player get their daily, then get your easy kill if you really need it.

> But i've also seen people not attack someone who is afk or doesn't fight back. Unless they're in a keep you just broke into because then you're just leaving a player inside to easily take the keep back, so that's understandable.

>

> It's why you stay away whenever you see 2 people fighting. Because it's probably a duel and you jumping in and "saving" your server's player will just anger both of them.

> If someone attacks you as you're watching, then you just got an invitation to join in and wipe the pavement with them. Other than that, the unwritten ettiquette is to not interfere.

>

> Game mode is after all just that - a mode, it's not law, and beyond the necessary mechanics, players are the ones who "make" the mode. And a little empathy never hurt anyone, especially not letting PvErs do their daily, so players due to this made some unwritten ettiquette to make it a better place for everyone. You don't need to follow the rules, but it's nice to do so once in a while because it doesn't really affect the match or your server in any way. Especially if you let someone kill a veteran.

 

Yea, all of this 100%. It's why this game mode is even playable given the current state of things, and comes at virtually no cost.