Community: we don't like stealth thief builds

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"Gandrogh.1530" said:

> > @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> > That essence sap nerf was the best thing that happened this year.

>

> Yes and I think this don't bother anyone. Signet of Agility and IA 's nerf is the real problem

 

Somehow thieves want their class to have mobility, stealth and ability to win against every other class out there. This arrogance is only comparible to that of rangers that wish to be able to 1vX, stealth, their pet to deal tremendeous damage alone and always be able to extract safely out of most situations.

I just hope there won't ever be wvw/spvp maps with underwater combat because it's completely dogshit.

 

[Lurana.7506]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > >

> > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > >

> > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> >

> > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

>

> I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

 

Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > >

> > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > >

> > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > >

> > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> >

> > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

>

> Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

 

Trust me it’s totally a misnomer that “thief cannot 1v1”. The reality of the situation is that thief is optimal rn as a high mobility class with zerker amulet and therefore high damage. Lots of specs with high mobility and zerker amulet can win lots of match ups that they end up in for example power shiro and zerk core ranger and old nades holo- for one both these can ezily beat decap builds 1v1 which ppl have been claiming is meta. Depending on the build a DrD (especially with condi cleanse on dodge) can ezily beat condi ranger, mirage and multiple variants of guard if played right. Also an s/d thief is in general amazing against anything that soaks up boons- so it can soak boons from things like scourge, reaper, flame thrower scrapper and holo for nice 1v1.

Keep in mind I didn’t call thief a “side noder” which often is a bunker which thief cannot do, just that it can “win a 1v1”, which can also mean beating another roamer such as rev, mirage or sometimes ranger/ other thief’s.

[Styros.8931]

delete whole thread , cringe to read this tears about nothing

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > >

> > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > >

> > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > >

> > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> >

> > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

>

> Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

 

I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

[Lurana.7506]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > >

> > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > >

> > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > >

> > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> >

> > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

>

> I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

 

You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > >

> > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > >

> > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> >

> > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

>

> You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

 

If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > >

> > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > >

> > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> >

> > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

>

> If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

 

If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > >

> > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > >

> > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> >

> > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

>

> If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

 

Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > >

> > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > >

> > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> >

> > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

>

> Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

 

Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > >

> > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > >

> > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> >

> > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

>

> Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

 

Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > >

> > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > >

> > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> >

> > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

>

> And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

>

> Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

 

You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > >

> > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > >

> > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> >

> > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> >

> > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

>

> You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

 

You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

 

"It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > >

> > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > >

> > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > >

> > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> >

> > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

>

> You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

>

> "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

 

Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > >

> > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > >

> > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > >

> > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> >

> > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> >

> > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

>

> Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

 

"It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

 

I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

[Axl.8924]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > >

> > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > >

> > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > >

> > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > >

> > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> >

> > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

>

> "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

>

> I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

 

I wasn't around early on so was thief strong in the beginning? just curious since i wasn't around.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > >

> > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > >

> > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > >

> > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > >

> > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> >

> > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

>

> "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

>

> I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

 

Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Can we stop bumping thief thread?

 

The devs might thing they are still a problem, lol.

 

(if they are for you at this point, you know the words) fill in G _ _ G_ _

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > >

> > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > >

> > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > >

> > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > >

> > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> >

> > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> >

> > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

>

> Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

 

Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

 

> But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

 

Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > > >

> > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > > >

> > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > > >

> > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> > >

> > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> > >

> > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

> >

> > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

>

> Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

>

> > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

>

> Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

 

And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> > > >

> > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> > > >

> > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

> > >

> > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

> >

> > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

> >

> > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

> >

> > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

>

> And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

 

You ... quote a sentence that doesnt exist. What? But yeah at this point its pretty clear you have no argument, so there is no point in me humouring your attempt at distracting from the fact that you have no argument. And even when I beat you, its not like you will say "oh Im sorry, I was wrong". Youll just ignore it. So, pass.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> > > > >

> > > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

> > > >

> > > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

> > >

> > > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

> > >

> > > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

> > >

> > > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

> >

> > And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

>

> You ... quote a sentence that doesnt exist. What? But yeah at this point its pretty clear you have no argument, so there is no point in me humouring your attempt at distracting from the fact that you have no argument. And even when I beat you, its not like you will say "oh Im sorry, I was wrong". Youll just ignore it. So, pass.

 

Ok we can collect some quotes so everyone can laugh- “how many of those necros where 1v1 builds like idk reaper” “core necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2” “meanwhile you can just crush them from afar” “a deadeye could never under *any circumstances could beat a necro 1v1”

 

“I OnLy SaW dE As eNeMiEs DuRing tHoSe 2v2 sEaSoNs”

 

“I dId NoT LoSe a SinGle One”

 

Quiet a research job u did here

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

> > > > >

> > > > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

> > > >

> > > > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

> > > >

> > > > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

> > > >

> > > > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

> > >

> > > And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

> >

> > You ... quote a sentence that doesnt exist. What? But yeah at this point its pretty clear you have no argument, so there is no point in me humouring your attempt at distracting from the fact that you have no argument. And even when I beat you, its not like you will say "oh Im sorry, I was wrong". Youll just ignore it. So, pass.

>

> Ok we can collect some quotes so everyone can laugh- “how many of those necros where 1v1 builds like idk reaper” “core necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2” “meanwhile you can just crush them from afar” “a deadeye could never under *any circumstances could beat a necro 1v1”

>

> “I OnLy SaW dE As eNeMiEs DuRing tHoSe 2v2 sEaSoNs”

>

> “I dId NoT LoSe a SinGle One”

>

> Quiet a research job u did here

 

you still arguing with mathematician?

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lurana.7506" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustain

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 *class*. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I play Daredevil and even though I'm not asking for 1v1 situations, I sometimes find myself in a duel. So I try and if it's obvious I'll loose, I go. But I very successfully duel Mesmers, Engi and Necros all the time. The other classes are more difficult to play against for me. But I can duel these three pretty well.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I can win 1v1s as Deadeye against Guardians. That doesnt mean DE can 1v1 Guardians, it most definitely cannot, it just means that sometimes your level of play is significantly higher over your opponents skill level to the point where you win even a matchup you shouldnt win. Of the 3 you mention, thief can actually duel condi mesmer well because plasma is stupid. Engineer is basically a loss every time if the Engineer knows their way around their class (seriously I play Core Engineer, which is just a weaker Holo a lot of the time, and I dont lose to thieves), Necro depends on their build, but any Necro that you would encounter in a 1v1 is a Necro that is going to clap thief.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, it depends a lot on the skill of the player. When a necro player and a thief player (current meta builds) with equal skill on their class fight a 1v1, the necro will win. But in reality, it's not that easy and e.g. roamer classes win against duelists all the time.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have trouble 1v1ing a necro as deadeye, than this equal match would be in his mmr which is like 500 less than any good players

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If its a necro that actually wants to 1v1? Yeah no, its going to absolutely clap deadeye. The necro would have to be *really* awful to lose that one. Just dodge the Death's Judgment and the Deadeye straight up wont have the damage to kill you. Meanwhile you can just crush them from afar, especially since Ghastly Claws tracks through stealth.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah in silver teir I’m sure that’s the case because it’s an ez class. Duel an actually relevant De player on necro . A plat3+ De shouldn’t have trouble 1v1ing any necro in the game.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Its the case anywhere, but I guess if you dont have an argument, false elitism is all you can go for, huh? But please, do explain how a class that cant kill the other one because their damage is literally too low, but can be killed pretty easily because their health is also too low *totally* wins the 1v1. Remember, one of these classes was arguably top tier in 2v2, due to its power in fighting even in a 1v2, the other class was literally unplayable.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I guess if u think u can 1v1 good Des like faeleth hitzer etc on necro good luck since I’ve never seen even the best necros in the game do it. Maybe it’s just fake elitism but I also remember A decent De named faeleth finishing the first 2v2 season with only 1 or 2 losses which is definitely near legend, so can I ask what rank u were in 2s on your op meta build while a De main could play it like a meta build. Geez what is up with ppl on forums as if I’m lying that the ppl who actually put their time into learning a class and play it at the highest level in pvp actually do good on it, what audacity

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > And how many of those necros were 1v1 builds like, idk, reaper? I imagine none, if they actually managed to lose 1v1s to DE somehow. It most certainly is fake elitism. And while I cant say I remember Faeleth, if what you say is true, I have a guess as to who his duo partner was playing. Was it Necro? Of course it was. Guess even a bad build could be carried by Necro in the first season. But ask yourself why thief as a whole was considered unplayable in 2v2.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Oh its not that youre lying, its just your track record is ... bad. You have made a lot of predictions and claims. In the entire 2 years since Ive seen you on this forum, Ive not seen you be right about those *once*.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You say I am wrong, but you are wrong on many fronts in this argument. Faeleth streamed his games and he duo qd with a Mesmer. Doing good in 2s is not an indicator of a strong 1v1 build, but then again necro was not doing what u claimed in 2s, I played necro in legend on Na and Eu and this never happened- the best build was a scourge bunker build that could occasionally meme ppl during map mechanic , not win 1v2s and that build while it is not bad in some 1v1s can do literally nothing against a De- it’ll do no damage since deadeye can stand off node and it cannot kite or out sustain a deadeye forever. It’s literally a 100-0 losing match up to deadeye, so your proof of an op 1v1 necro is an even worse match up into deadeye than core which is like in low skill match ups 50-50 and high skill ones a losing 75-25

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You said in the *first* season. I dont know if you forgot, or more likely, made this up on the fly and didnt make sure your made-up story was realistic, but the meta in the first 2v2 season was Core Necro (sometimes reaper, but it was weaker) with no scourge in sight, firebrand, and condi revenant. Core Necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2, Firebrand was usually the support to go along with it. Condi Revenant had some other application, though I honestly dont remember what it was. If you cant even get that part of the story straight, Im pretty sure we can completely disregard the rest.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "It'll do no damage", what the hell are you on about? If the DE doesnt 1v1 them, then the DE also wont be doing damage to them either. Were talking about an actual 1v1. Now lets ignore that DE shouldn't kneel in the first place because its bad and youre better off spamming 2 when unkneeled, even if the DE *did* kneel, the Necro would just have to step forward slightly, and theyre already in range. Or step back slightly and be out of range. There is no way for the thief to do any damage without taking a lot *more* damage in return. Now sure, when the DE is about to lose the 1v1 (not if, its a certainty), they will run, but not losing is not winning either. In reality, whenever the DE tries to hit the necro, he will barely scratch the necro while taking massive damage themself. They cannot outsustain the necro, nor can they realistically kite them. Its literally a 0% win rate match for the DE. At most they can achieve a draw. If they dont run away, they lose 100% of the time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Again it’s literally the same deal even if your only talking about the first season, there was a bunker core necro yeah your right but it also didn’t do damage and wouldn’t 1v2. It was good for being very tanky as well as having a strong rez tool just like scourge and it was also completely irrelevant in the 1v1 scene and would never be able to kill a deadeye 1v1- the best it would do would not die since it was stacking a whole lot more power damage mitigation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "It also didn't do damage". Yknow if you were gonna talk about a period of the game you were clearly unfamiliar with, it would've done you well to research at least a little bit. It would've helped you avoid making a statement so wrong. And thats just for core necro, whereas reaper just completely demolished. A deadeye could never, under *any* circumstances win a 1v1 against Necro. The best it could do is not die. But thats by running away. If confined into a small arena (like the 2v2 gamemode did), Deadeye couldn't run away, and as a result would always die. Thats a large part of why it was even worse than the already unplayable thief in 2v2.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I mean lets ignore precedent, and just talk about merits. How exactly do you think Deadeye would win? It cant outrange necro. It has worse sustain, worse survivability and worse damage. It has worse CC, worse utility, worse conditions (obviously) and much more avoidable damage. Its better at running away, but again, not losing is not winning either. Where is the magical method the theif uses to win?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Imagine talking about “period of the game I’m unfamiliar with” when literally you are referencing a thing from another period of the game that is also a completely different build and meta as to the one you are talking about. Also you were clearly out skilled by a player who achieved a higher rank(than you’ve probably ever been) on a build you think is a meme.

> > > > >

> > > > > Youre the one who, inexplicably, referenced that period of the game. Despite not knowing that period of the game at all. Im just baffled you keep talking about things you dont know despite having a successful prediction rate of 0%, and pretty poor rate of correctly identifying what is, and isnt strong. And no, but I guess if you have no argument (because you know you're wrong), you have to resort to ad hominem. I only saw DE as enemies in those 2v2 seasons. They were free wins. I did not lose a single one, not even the one time my ally DCd for half the match.

> > > > >

> > > > > > But considering all that you still think I’m unfamiliar with the game how about you try to 1v1 me on anything- I am pretty confident in my 1v1 skills and my mutilclass skills and would gladly take even the “best player” on the “best build” on anytime during ats with the win on the line.

> > > > >

> > > > > Considering *what*? You havent said a single thing of substance.

> > > >

> > > > And I quote- “ there is a reason necro is well known for winning 1v2”. While you are over there laughing to yourself I’m here in front of everyone on the forums saying I’ll gladly take you in a 1v1 on any class or build and dumpster it over and over again until I am more “familiar” with the game.

> > >

> > > You ... quote a sentence that doesnt exist. What? But yeah at this point its pretty clear you have no argument, so there is no point in me humouring your attempt at distracting from the fact that you have no argument. And even when I beat you, its not like you will say "oh Im sorry, I was wrong". Youll just ignore it. So, pass.

> >

> > Ok we can collect some quotes so everyone can laugh- “how many of those necros where 1v1 builds like idk reaper” “core necro in particular was infamous for its ability to 1v2” “meanwhile you can just crush them from afar” “a deadeye could never under *any circumstances could beat a necro 1v1”

> >

> > “I OnLy SaW dE As eNeMiEs DuRing tHoSe 2v2 sEaSoNs”

> >

> > “I dId NoT LoSe a SinGle One”

> >

> > Quiet a research job u did here

>

> you still arguing with mathematician?

 

In the prime, and redo of deadeye, absolutely zero necromancers could take the 1 v 1 with me as the deadeye.

 

Not really sure if that was the argument, but I wanted to weird flex.

[Hannelore.8153]

This problem exists in many areas of the game. Basically there's mechanics in the game that are hardcoded (like stealth), that the devs had to work very hard on to make it work, so when the feature doesn't pan out like they planned, and when it even makes gameplay toxic, instead of removing it or changing how it works entirely they just do a round of nerfs over everything else.

 

And then they repeat this process again and again instead of addressing the root cause (see: Mesmer).

 

Its a very common problem amoung game developers in general. They won't sacrifice their precious baby game design so you can have better, healthier gameplay. You will use Thief as a stealth class, you will like it and you will not do anything else, period.

 

I know that's overley dramatic, but that's basically how it ends up with most problems in this game, and many others too.

 

Until we have a dev team that isn't afraid to rework major mechanics because of how much time, energy or resources it would take to fix all the resulting bugs, do the necessary rebalancing, etc, we're stuck with things that are bad for the game. Which given how old this game is, and how much the spirit of development has dropped off since its release, most likely means indefinitely.

 

This post hurt me to write, but it had to be said.

 

This is why I left game development myself. So many games fall prey to this, and it really hurts their longevity. That's why the modern trend is to make games that last a few days (after years of development), instead of being played decades down the road. It becomes not only a waste of time and energy for both devs and players, but also of vision, dicipline and other metaphysical resources.

 

To be fair, GW2 has had a good run for its money already, but some problems existed since the beginning.