Amityel.5324 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @hurrado.2346 said: > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it. > > > > Only then will you be strong and powerful like necro! man i logged yesterday on my necro and pple were dying like flies.....aoe spam is hard i know :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > @Lighter.5631 said: > > > > @StickerHappy.8052 said: > > > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers... > > > > > > > > Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check. > > > > > > Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check. > > > Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check > > > > > > Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all.. > > > > Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing. > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it. > > > > > > > Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't _have_ all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable. > > From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. " > > "Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies" > > You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ? "Warrior has no access to boon removal and is given enough strength to power through them." This was also written in the same article, guess you skipped that part. Having the strength they have on their weapons coupled with the boon rip of spellbreaker is the main issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @crewthief.8649 said: > > @musu.9205 said: > > > @crewthief.8649 said: > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > @Lighter.5631 said: > > > > > > > > @StickerHappy.8052 said: > > > > > > > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check. > > > > > > > Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > > > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > > > > Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't _have_ all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. " > > > > > > > > > > "Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies" > > > > > > > > > > You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ? > > > > > > > > Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not. > > > > > > Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight. > > > > > guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one . > > > > the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable . > > > > There isn't a whole heck of a lot of separation between the sustain of an SB and the sustain of an FB. Well, considering one is a pure bunker / support and the other has top damage done more often than not, I'm astonished that you can't see the issue with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 i can’t believe we have people advocating for GS nerfs here... y’all are crazy would have thought the obvious things to go after would be full counter (targets, radius, damage, cooldown, effects) & the traitline that buffs it to bonkers level. like, idk nerf the resistance or copy condis, ya know the things insta gibbing in teamfights it’s like, berserker is weak & core warrior is solid. they don’t even need nerfs (berserker needs buffs imo, but it’s what i play so im bias). but spellbreaker is just blatantly OP. so it seems pretty obvious that you want to nerf things that are exclusive to spellbreaker, & leave the core class & other specialisation just as is. but it seems a lot of you straight up do not care about warrior’s place in pvp & want it trash tier. ie, balance is not the goal it’s salt driven revenge. it’s like if i came in a wanting nerfs to firebrand & decided the way to go was to gut meditations, shouts & the core healing traits the two main firebrand builds (virtues, & valor variants) use. like no, that’s retarded. that just ruins core guardian & DH. the way to go if a specialisation is over performing & the core class is not, is obviously to nerf the specialisation. it’s not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Well, one of the hardest thing to deal with are weapons. You can nerf some traits but you can't deny the mobility from GS or defensive/CC capability of a shield. I still can't tell if spellbreaker is OP. It can still be killed but you have to try twice as much to win, because it is the spellbreaker who dictates the pace of a fight (keep in mind that I refer to good spellbreakers). I find it frustrating when I manage to outlast the endure pain/berserker stance/balance stance onslaught just to find myself countered by kiting that allows a spellbreaker to keep on fighting until cooldowns are back, and to do so with relative ease. And no, I do not say that based on what I saw, I also tried SpellB for the sake of knowing it better. I can say that it's not about how good you are to beat a spellbreaker, but when a spellbreaker makes a mistake that you can take advantage of. There are barely any weak spots as of now. I even had a funny/frustrating situation when after a long duel, I was about to land a killing blow on a warrior, he evaded it by whirlwinding through me, downing me in the process. Not to mention the fact that even when his stances go down, he can kite with the mobility and defend himself well with full counter or shield block while passively restoring health from adrenal health. It all comes down to the fact that some classes, and spellbreaker is the finest example of it, are capable of multiple things at once. You can hardly meet with something like that in any other game. Mobility? Damage? Sustained healing? Bunker capability? Isn't that too much for one build to be able to do? I do believe it would be fair for one build to excel at max two things, but not at three or even four. What I heard from pvp'ers who play this game since launch, it used to be way more challenging to fight, because your class wasn't a jack of all trades. This is pretty much what we have now since HoT release. What I would like to see is a change to full counter. Either keep it at that cooldown but changed considerably. Apply all damage, interrupt and stuff to the one who triggers FC, thus SB would still be a good 1v1 fighter, but not a 1v1 brawler and a teamfighter at the same time. The second option is to keep it as strong as it is now, but 100% longer cooldown. The second thing would be to move adrenal health between some significant traits. Sacrifice something as others have to, you can't have all the best pieces at the same time. The last thing would be to remove evade frame from whirlwind. I do believe that would be good enough of a change that would not break SB but make it less forgiving. As for the rest of strong stuff as endure pain and zerk stance, I believe it is fair to keep it how it is now. Perhaps something could be done about it even more, but stacking nerfs is not a way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Anet wanted to balance condition spamming with some other dumb/weird gimmick, resistance apeared create lame gimmicks to counter lame gimmicks and pray that they will work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 At most, Full Counter needs its range reduced to 240 units, Revenue Counter needs to lose its Resistance, and Last Stand needs a 60 sec ICD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossaber.8934 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > At most, Full Counter needs its range reduced to 240 units, Revenue Counter needs to lose its Resistance, and Last Stand needs a 60 sec ICD. I don't see a need of last stand nerf, the other 2 sounds reasonable. But i rather see revenue counter remove 2 conditions instead of copy 5 conditions to enemies, as if there is not enough condi spam already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vapour.7348 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @choovanski.5462 said: > i can’t believe we have people advocating for GS nerfs here... y’all are crazy > > would have thought the obvious things to go after would be full counter (targets, radius, damage, cooldown, effects) & the traitline that buffs it to bonkers level. like, idk nerf the resistance or copy condis, ya know the things insta gibbing in teamfights > > it’s like, berserker is weak & core warrior is solid. they don’t even need nerfs (berserker needs buffs imo, but it’s what i play so im bias). but spellbreaker is just blatantly OP. so it seems pretty obvious that you want to nerf things that are exclusive to spellbreaker, & leave the core class & other specialisation just as is. but it seems a lot of you straight up do not care about warrior’s place in pvp & want it trash tier. ie, balance is not the goal it’s salt driven revenge. > > it’s like if i came in a wanting nerfs to firebrand & decided the way to go was to gut meditations, shouts & the core healing traits the two main firebrand builds (virtues, & valor variants) use. like no, that’s kitten. that just ruins core guardian & DH. the way to go if a specialisation is over performing & the core class is not, is obviously to nerf the specialisation. it’s not rocket science. Maybe or at least, I'm hoping the OP meant... "SB have too much resistance" instead of generalizing the warrior class. It's the traitline and F2 cooldown that's a bit bothersome. SB is almost like playing TGM on the command console. But punishing entire the class would not be good for Pvp. I remember how bad warriors were when they nerfed healing shouts amongst others and how they were temporarily replaced by revenants shortly after HoT came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vapour.7348 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Hiki.9310 said: > I feel like I can't play any condition builds on any class but necromancer because I can't remove resistance. I see warriors in every game stacking this boon for entire matches. Thanks for changing the title OP :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Crossaber.8934 said: > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > At most, Full Counter needs its range reduced to 240 units, Revenue Counter needs to lose its Resistance, and Last Stand needs a 60 sec ICD. > > I don't see a need of last stand nerf, the other 2 sounds reasonable. > > But i rather see revenue counter remove 2 conditions instead of copy 5 conditions to enemies, as if there is not enough condi spam already... A last stand nerf would be pretty dang nice, considering that resistance already grants them immunity to a lot of control effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 > @Vapour.7348 said: > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > i can’t believe we have people advocating for GS nerfs here... y’all are crazy > > > > would have thought the obvious things to go after would be full counter (targets, radius, damage, cooldown, effects) & the traitline that buffs it to bonkers level. like, idk nerf the resistance or copy condis, ya know the things insta gibbing in teamfights > > > > it’s like, berserker is weak & core warrior is solid. they don’t even need nerfs (berserker needs buffs imo, but it’s what i play so im bias). but spellbreaker is just blatantly OP. so it seems pretty obvious that you want to nerf things that are exclusive to spellbreaker, & leave the core class & other specialisation just as is. but it seems a lot of you straight up do not care about warrior’s place in pvp & want it trash tier. ie, balance is not the goal it’s salt driven revenge. > > > > it’s like if i came in a wanting nerfs to firebrand & decided the way to go was to gut meditations, shouts & the core healing traits the two main firebrand builds (virtues, & valor variants) use. like no, that’s kitten. that just ruins core guardian & DH. the way to go if a specialisation is over performing & the core class is not, is obviously to nerf the specialisation. it’s not rocket science. > > Maybe or at least, I'm hoping the OP meant... "SB have too much resistance" instead of generalizing the warrior class. It's the traitline and F2 cooldown that's a bit bothersome. SB is almost like playing TGM on the command console. > > But punishing entire the class would not be good for Pvp. I remember how bad warriors were when they nerfed healing shouts amongst others and how they were temporarily replaced by revenants shortly after HoT came out. yeah, it was that nerf that made me pick up Guardian. I needed a heavy, and warrior was trash tier for 6+ months. people are campaigning for nerfs to core warrior defense line, greatsword, stances, like everything core relies on. I would hate to see those miss-guided nerfs come into play, and make core and berserker even less viable than they are. i still have flashbacks from how bad the class was. I really don't want the whole class thrown under the bus just because SpellBreaker overperforms. like, hot dang some of us don't own PoF, so balancing the core class around SpellBreaker is shityy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewthief.8649 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 > @Loop.8106 said: > > @crewthief.8649 said: > > > @musu.9205 said: > > > > @crewthief.8649 said: > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > @Lighter.5631 said: > > > > > > > > > @StickerHappy.8052 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Aza.2105 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check. > > > > > > > > Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > > > > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > > > > > > Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't _have_ all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. " > > > > > > > > > > > > "Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies" > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ? > > > > > > > > > > Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not. > > > > > > > > Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight. > > > > > > > guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one . > > > > > > the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable . > > > > > > > There isn't a whole heck of a lot of separation between the sustain of an SB and the sustain of an FB. > > Well, considering one is a pure bunker / support and the other has top damage done more often than not, I'm astonished that you can't see the issue with this. > You clearly missed where I stated that SB needed an adjustment. 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MetalcoreRyan.8647 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 I must be playing my spellbreaker wrong cause I die alot! In wvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortus.6175 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 > @"MetalcoreRyan.8647" said: > I must be playing my spellbreaker wrong cause I die alot! In wvw You must be playing necro then. But that aside, yes, SpB is still overtuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasylife.7981 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Have you seen the dmg reaper does, Warrior is a facetank why would you consider that broken with like 5 others classes and builds that just outshine it??? Scrapper, power/Boonbeast, Holosmith, Reaper/Scorch and mesmer in general mostly mirage condi, Chronomantra is also quite strong, and now people are saying Thief Staff is broken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 > @"Fantasylife.7981" said: > Have you seen the dmg reaper does, Warrior is a facetank why would you consider that broken with like 5 others classes and builds that just outshine it??? Scrapper, power/Boonbeast, Holosmith, Reaper/Scorch and mesmer in general mostly mirage condi, Chronomantra is also quite strong, and now people are saying Thief Staff is broken... pretty sure OP hasn't seen scrapper in the current form, unless he could time travel himself 1 year and half in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Why necro this thread lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 > @"Fortus.6175" said: > > @"MetalcoreRyan.8647" said: > > I must be playing my spellbreaker wrong cause I die alot! In wvw > > You must be playing necro then. > > But that aside, yes, SpB is still overtuned. He's definitely a Necro... A pretty powerful one at that! :p How did he find an almost 2 years buried thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Holy necro'd thread. I started reading and was like -- they fixed the resist issue (effectively killing spellbreaker for a while) a long time ago. Then I realized this thread was created a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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