Why can mesmers insta-down people?

[DeadlySynz.3471]

If this is the case, then this would be the answer to Scourges.. no? So people can now stop complaining about them? Get a few of these insta-down mesmers in the group and call it a day. It's that lovely game of rock/paper/scissors

[apharma.3741]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> My only real frustration with the build (notably chrono enabling it) is that it can go go into distortion immediately after the burst if it wants to continue to follow-through or run away unscathed.

> Aside from these situations, such builds usually aren't that amazing. DP warrior/SoS trait ranger among others don't really need to be scared at all since the MW damage is multiple hits which means they *can't* be one-combo-killed. If anything, the more valid complaint is how the combo can work on nearly any build and still fairly safely chunk most people to like 25% while retaining full kit functionality, which is mostly just a result of frustrations yet again coming from chrono with s/sh allowing so much in terms of defenses.

>

> Raw damage? An all-in glass power shatter mesmer easily has the best burst in the game, but it's probably one of the more mechanically-demanding kits to play with little margin for error. Basically, it iswhat old signet thief was before it was effectively removed from the game somewhat recently, except that they just had different rewards and different capacities of being able to outplay people in different types of encounters.

>

> I don't mind that the damage exists at all. The stealth-burst nonsense is still nonsense, but I've been saying that even as an ex-thief for years. Unfortunately GW2 devs seem to like the concept of Build Wars on failed concepts more than anything else.

 

Id say Scepter ele beats mesmer in pure raw damage burst, blink, triple hit Phoenix, air attunement, lightning strike, blind follow up and arcane blast, will easily hit for 20-30k, course you would need extremely good reactions or most likely a macro to hit it all off in the blink of an eye. I’ve run very glassy, saw a single mind wrack hit for 7k on some thief the other day but that really is the upper end of viable builds where you’re starting to go into scholar, force, impact sigil all chasing that one perfect hit.

 

Still the argument boils down to should one shot builds exist? I’m mostly in agreement with OriOri’s criteria, it basically has to one shot you or it will essentially be dead and that goes for any class regardless. Once again I guess stealth is the issue here, it’s just not great for the game but at least mesmers can’t camp it so much now after the pledge change and PU being in a line that would cost you a lot in burst.

[SugarCayne.3098]

It's just a learning curve with new builds. You'll get it.

 

What you sacrifice for mirage isn't worth it to me.

[Jeknar.6184]

> @SugarCayne.3098 said:

> It's just a learning curve with new builds. You'll get it.

>

> What you sacrifice for mirage isn't worth it to me.

 

I wouldn't call picking Mirage a Sacrifice tbh... Jaunt deals a respectable damage and it will proc a extra clone if you pull it after the mirror blade hit your target. It in fact make pulling the 3 clone Mind Wrack much easier without the need of running mirror image.

 

Also, the big damage from Mesmer come from dueling (Superiority Complex) and domination (Mental Anguish)... What would be your "sacrifice" for Mirage? Chrono? Illusions? None of these traitlines really add anything to your damage. They are utility lines, just like Mirage. And that's why this build work with any setup of mesmer. As long you take the first two, the third line don't really matter (Unless you really consider the 25% Crit chance from Master of Fragmentation game breaking).

[Azamanaza.5740]

The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

[Titan.3472]

> @Azamanaza.5740 said:

> The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

 

[Zero.3871]

> @Titan.3472 said:

> > @Azamanaza.5740 said:

> > The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

> That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

>

 

in gw2 there are no "glass cannon"-builds, because every of this "fake-glass-cannon" builds run thousands of invuls and blocks that makes their builds very tanky. for example warrior can play full berzerk and still live minimum of 15 secs just because of invuls, blocks, dodges...in this 15 secs you can kill a lot of enemies with your massive dmg bombs without risk to die. for mesmer its the same...

[Dawdler.8521]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> > @Titan.3472 said:

> > > @Azamanaza.5740 said:

> > > The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

> > That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

> >

>

> in gw2 there are no "glass cannon"-builds, because every of this "fake-glass-cannon" builds run thousands of invuls and blocks that makes their builds very tanky. for example warrior can play full berzerk and still live minimum of 15 secs just because of invuls, blocks, dodges...in this 15 secs you can kill a lot of enemies with your massive dmg bombs without risk to die. for mesmer its the same...

Lol as a glasscannon the mesmer is nowhere near a warrior when its comes to tankiness. No class is. Even a glass cannon necro with double the hp of everyone isnt close to a warrior. Healing signet + adrenal health + passives still rule the field and thats before one get into full counter.

[Justine.6351]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> > @Titan.3472 said:

> > > @Azamanaza.5740 said:

> > > The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

> > That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

> >

>

> in gw2 there are no "glass cannon"-builds, because every of this "fake-glass-cannon" builds run thousands of invuls and blocks that makes their builds very tanky. for example warrior can play full berzerk and still live minimum of 15 secs just because of invuls, blocks, dodges...in this 15 secs you can kill a lot of enemies with your massive dmg bombs without risk to die. for mesmer its the same...

 

Idk I feel pretty glass cannon on hammer rev.

[VaaCrow.3076]

Right this build sacrifices everything to be damage and kills you a few times and suddenly its a problem. ok. In that case, 2x endure pain, gs #3/#5, full counter, shield block, bulls rush, adrenal healing, healing signet, rousing resilience, if this is a nerf thread, make it so warriors can only have ONE of these per build so its on par with glass mesmer, thanks.

[cyberwolf.5830]

Mesmer don't sacrifice anything and if the burst fail they will just invuln/stealth away and come back after cd reset. Also with Mirage they have huge mobility.

I think there should be at least a small animation that will allow a player to dodge part of the burst, what's the point in being oneshotted with no warning at all?

Also Thief's assassin signed is the same kitten but at least backstab is harder to land than mesmer's combo. DJ's hopefully will be fixed and anyway the whole deadeye class is so boring that nobody will play it anymore in a few weeks.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @Grebcol.5984 said:

> Funny that people now complain about 1Shottie Mesmer because that build exist since months.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

> In WvWvW it is even more lul and it getting more popular now.

> Here the one i think most saw

>

 

First video thief wearing zerk instead of marauder.

Cleary legit.

 

 

[OriOri.8724]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> > @Titan.3472 said:

> > > @Azamanaza.5740 said:

> > > The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

> > That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

> >

>

> in gw2 there are no "glass cannon"-builds, because every of this "fake-glass-cannon" builds run thousands of invuls and blocks that makes their builds very tanky. for example warrior can play full berzerk and still live minimum of 15 secs just because of invuls, blocks, dodges...in this 15 secs you can kill a lot of enemies with your massive dmg bombs without risk to die. for mesmer its the same...

 

And that is the problem. The powercreep in this game since HoT is so huge that you can achieve glass cannon build damage while still having a very defensive build. You're obviously not the most tanky build out there, but you should never be able to hit those levels of damage with defensive options in your build. And that's why its such shit now, because a build doing close to or even hitting glass cannon damage can sustain themselves and even reset the fight sometimes if their initial burst fails.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @EvilSardine.9635 said:

 

> Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

 

 

A.) See if a mesmer is on the opposing team

B.) Be ready to react when you see power lock.

C.) Keep camera on a swivel to see if mesmer is approaching from behind or the side.

D.) Congrats you now have the advantage.

 

 

[mulzi.8273]

on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

[Arioch.6507]

> @mulzi.8273 said:

> on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

 

Like Firebrand or Spellbreaker or Deadeye or Scourge or Hammer Rev for instance

[Jeknar.6184]

> @mulzi.8273 said:

> on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

 

To be fair, a lot of mesmers been running that setup ever since Superiority Complex was added to the game... In fact, even though I am a mesmer main myself, back at that time I did complain that I thought Superiority Complex was a overtuned trait and that I shouldn't be allowed to "oneshot" (More like one-combo in the case of mesmer) a full Trailblazer Necro simply because he wasn't running Unholy Sanctuary (Keep in mind that a Full Trailblazer Necro have 26k HP and 3,2k Armor)... The end result was me being shot down by everyone and their mother calling me a idiot, saying I was overreacting, and that people not being able to dodge a mesmer burst need to l2p.

 

So now, unless you can press a stunbreaker and dodge in half a second after you are stuned by Confounding Suggestions, you better have a Invulnerability trait or accept that people decided that this should be a thing.

[Vambrace.8675]

So far I am seeing the same defense for this Mesmer build as for stealth/Sniper DE.

 

This defense is, a player or small group of players tailoring their entire WvW experience around avoiding 2 specific builds...common theme being these builds can one shot a player, stealth and reset to do it again relatively shortly after.

 

I feel like maybe that logic deserves some more thought.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @mulzi.8273 said:

> > on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

>

> To be fair, a lot of mesmers been running that setup ever since Superiority Complex was added to the game... In fact, even though I am a mesmer main myself, back at that time I did complain that I thought Superiority Complex was a overtuned trait and that I shouldn't be allowed to "oneshot" (More like one-combo in the case of mesmer) a full Trailblazer Necro simply because he wasn't running Unholy Sanctuary (Keep in mind that a Full Trailblazer Necro have 26k HP and 3,2k Armor)... The end result was me being shot down by everyone and their mother calling me a idiot, saying I was overreacting, and that people not being able to dodge a mesmer burst need to l2p.

>

> So now, unless you can press a stunbreaker and dodge in half a second after you are stuned by Confounding Suggestions, you better have a Invulnerability trait or accept that people decided that this should be a thing.

 

Superiority complex is quite strong as a trait, but its not what makes this burst possible. I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at, but its not the reason mesmers can pull this off, so if you want to nerf the ability to do this combo look elsewhere for nerfs

[R E F L H E X.8413]

Yea superiority complex isnt the main reason mes has been pretty much like this in wvw since release.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @Vambrace.8675 said:

> So far I am seeing the same defense for this Mesmer build as for stealth/Sniper DE.

>

> This defense is, a player or small group of players tailoring their entire WvW experience around avoiding 2 specific builds...common theme being these builds can one shot a player, stealth and reset to do it again relatively shortly after.

>

> I feel like maybe that logic deserves some more thought.

 

Here's some ez logic: balance is not done on a WvW small scale fight level :) also unlike PvP, ranged and stealth kiting are practically rewarded in WvW since there's no point to stand on.

 

People have been using builds that hit hard and reset forever, it's called thief and just because you and some others don't like it doesn't mean it gets deleted from the game.

 

Can power mesmers and thieves contribute in a zerg very well? No? Then dominating small scale fights is all they really have. That's really the best "balance" and "logic" to the situation.

[Inoki.6048]

Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

 

Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional; perma-damage-immune warriors, twice-touch-kill condi necros with super high toughness and vitality pool and then, ofc, snipers. This all began with the introduction of HoT specs, those were a joke too but this,

 

this is by far the worst joke ever.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @Inoki.6048 said:

> Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

>

> Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional;

 

You can like...stunbreak. If you were caught off guard, that's something else entirely. But if you were aware and ready for it like you should always be in WvW ideally...you can stunbreak.

[KrHome.1920]

Every complaint about a Power Mesmer oneshot is just an indicator about the complainant's skill level - which in this case is nonexistent.

 

Been there, done that! 5 years ago. Today I know that I was just an incredible bad player.

 

It is a oneshot, yes - but it's the most easy to avoid oneshot in the game. At the same time a power mesmer is easier to kill than any other oneshot build/class. Well played Mirages are a threat, but even these builds have multiple counters besides autoproc invulnerabilities.

[Inoki.6048]

> @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

> > @Inoki.6048 said:

> > Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

> >

> > Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional;

>

> You can like...stunbreak. If you were caught off guard, that's something else entirely. But if you were aware and ready for it like you should always be in WvW ideally...you can stunbreak.

 

if I could I wouldn't mention it, but I do recall hitting that stun break yet still remain dazed. How do you explain that? Bug? Intent?