Zacchary.6183 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @Nemmar.8491 said: > > > Nvm i misunderstood the topic. > > > > > > It's not a good thing to force decisions on other players though, imo. > > > > But catering to a minority when it affects the majority as a whole is not a good thing either. > > How is it "catering" to anyone when the game launched with this mechanic and it is only a HUUUUGE problem now? > This is just more silly GW2 blaming. Oh, this dead person is hurting us. This Bearbow is ruining everything. This person doing personal goals should not be in our farm instance. You should have to pass a test to do Triple Trouble, this noob is ruining it all. These idiots refusing to stack are FORCING us to spend 29 seconds longer on Claw. We need a way to stop people doing champs out of order!! Ect, Ect, Ect. blah blah blah. > WE NEED A RULE TO STOP THESE MISCREANTS!! > sigh. Go do fractals with your "perfect" group who can GW2 without upsetting your delicate sense of how to do it. > Well, in a game where chance of failure increases the longer a fight drags on, it is usually better for the group as a whole to waypoint when you are defeated rather than lay on the ground waiting for a res. Most big events have timers and thus have DPS requirements that defeated players do not provide. Otherwise, once those timers reach zero **everyone** who participated in the event wastes their time and receive no rewards. So forcing a player to pay a fee to stay dead or auto-WP will help the vast majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blambidy.3216 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Dawdler.8521 said: > I prefer the option to let us kick around their corpse for laughs. I wouldn't. Think people would take it too seriously. Which would lead to a worse community then a helpful community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Nemmar.8491 said: > Nvm i misunderstood the topic. > > It's not a good thing to force decisions on other players though, imo. why not, whole concept of raid is to force people to play how commander wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blambidy.3216 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 A fee to pay no. But maybe a forceful waypoint. Or a kick from that map server to a different one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teofa Tsavo.9863 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @Nemmar.8491 said: > > Nvm i misunderstood the topic. > > > > It's not a good thing to force decisions on other players though, imo. > > why not, whole concept of raid is to force people to play how commander wants THAT'S A 50 DKP MINUS!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Walhalla.5473 said: > > @CharterforGw.3149 said: > > > > Someone else mentioned that they still scale up the event even with dead people (which to be fair isn't to much of an impact when it's only a few dead people). > > But either way if this is the case (we need confirmation on this) it should be addressed in a different way than "taxing" them > > Its something that was confirmed 2-3 years ago and back then a few people using or not using the WP could make the difference between success and fail ( I saw quite a lot events that fail at like 5% where you had around 5 people lying there for quite a good time and could have been a success if those people used the WP ). Even today you can have events that fail due to the event being overscaled thanks to players not using the Waypoint when they are dead. People just lying dead are a detriment to the rest of the players since they make the event harder than it should be. Let's clarify this issue for all of you: the event or boss fight starts and everyone is ALIVE, the event scales to the "living" character counts, some of the characters die and remain there without waypointing, the event or boss is still scaled to the amount of players that were there at the beginning, but the counter starts to decay because now you have dead players not PARTICIPATING in the event or boss, however, this decay is very slow and unless a significant amount of people leave no one will notice. That's how even scaling works now, and has for the last 3 years or so. Further more, those people that die and do not way point really don't affect anyone but themselves because the event was already scaled up based on them being there in the beginning, they're not contributing the event scaling up even more...therefore no reason to auto-wp them or tax them for not leaving....what you can do, unless they have auto-loot on is just leave them dead, because eventually the chest will disappear and they won't get their reward(other than that for completing the event anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 What an incredibly stupid idea!!! Bravo!! The players are not at fault. The game is. Scaling of an event should only involve living players. Players shouldn't be punished because Anet doesn't want to correct their scaling error. Players don't have to wp if they don't want to. You are not the boss of them. Those who asked for difficult group content should be thanking these people(and Anet for their preposterous scaling mechanic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Zaklex.6308 said: > Let's clarify this issue for all of you: the event or boss fight starts and everyone is ALIVE, the event scales to the "living" character counts, some of the characters die and remain there without waypointing, the event or boss is still scaled to the amount of players that were there at the beginning, but the counter starts to decay because now you have dead players not PARTICIPATING in the event or boss, however, this decay is very slow and unless a significant amount of people leave no one will notice. That's how even scaling works now, and has for the last 3 years or so. Further more, those people that die and do not way point really don't affect anyone but themselves because the event was already scaled up based on them being there in the beginning, they're not contributing the event scaling up even more...therefore no reason to auto-wp them or tax them for not leaving....what you can do, unless they have auto-loot on is just leave them dead, because eventually the chest will disappear and they won't get their reward(other than that for completing the event anyways). You said it yourself. They scaled the event but then since they are dead they no longer contribute in killing it, therefore making the event harder for those remaining players. Of course they don't scale it again, but they don't remove the scaling either and this is the problem. 100 players engaging a 5-minute boss, 20 players dead in the first minute, means the other 80 need to fight a boss scaled for 100 people for the other 4 minutes while only 80 are still available. The others are staying on the floor keeping the scale up, instead of using a waypoint to run back and help so 100 people fight a boss scaled for 100 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner.4621 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Zeefa.3915 said: > > Depending on the location it may be more than just "10 seconds". Also I only agree that asking for people to wp is ok at **some** events. It is **not** always the solution, in every situation. > > Opening your map, getting to a waypoint, and clicking on it should take about the same amount of time regardless of the map you are on. > Of course it depends on the event, a random event, even a group event won't be affected by a dead player, and in that case chances are you will get a revive anyway. > World bosses are the real the problem, or other legendary boss fights, especially time sensitive fights. Plenty of group events scale up with dead players nearby as well, though it doesn't always cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWolfTigerBear.672 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Tachenon.5270 said: >**Brutus** from old Popeye cartoons. This deeply offends me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopeUrban.2578 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Healix.5819 said: > For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side? This is a much better system than a death tax. 30 seconds might be a little slim, but a clearly communicated timer that simply removes the player's defeated body from play is the best solution to this problem, and would as a side note prevent players that were suddenly emergency AFK from being rezzed AFK and wasting everyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 I've had times when I'm downed for about 30 to 40 seconds in areas. The thing is I can keep myself alive for a bit but usually hoping someone would help me up. If after all that time and of course I can't up myself and I see not a single person helped, sorry but I'm not waypointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 A lot of the posts seem to be missing the point here: **You would NEVER be charged any more than a standard WP fee automatically.** The additional "stay on the ground here" fee, which could be any amount that is deemed fair, would only be applied if a player manually clicked on the "stay here" prompt. He would be choosing to pay that fee rather than WPing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > A lot of the posts seem to be missing the point here: > > **You would NEVER be charged any more than a standard WP fee automatically.** > > The additional "stay on the ground here" fee, which could be any amount that is deemed fair, would only be applied if a player manually clicked on the "stay here" prompt. He would be choosing to pay that fee rather than WPing. So, for example, the nearest WP costs 1sp. Dead player would be charged 1sp for remaining dead. Then, since presumably no one would rez the player after the event, they would have to pay 1sp again to use the nearest WP? I understand the frustration from many in this thread and the reasons for that frustration. **Personally**, I am completely against every proposal in this thread that penalizes and/or taxes players. I don't see such action(s) as being a positive change for the game or community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. The person hanging back is providing minimal contribution but still more than the dead person. While those 5 people are reviving the dead person the dead person is effectively doing negative damage that would make it worse than leeching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are the exact same thing, period. This isn't an argument, it's what they do, leech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > > > > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. > > > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are the exact same thing, period. This isn't an argument, it's what they do, leech. Yeah because as I mentioned before in my case. Many times I waypoint back to the area, when I see people being piggish and not helping anyone and just say "Waypoint back" and never help people downed? Yeah, if because now I refuse to waypoint because not a single person is helping, then call me a leech. I've heard that while dead it just makes things harder as enemies and bosses and other things scale based on the bodies in the area. IF people so much in a rush to refuse to help a down person to the point they now are dead... then you know what? NOW it will be harder to help me up because no one helped me while downed and now need a few to help me revive. I'm not going to make your life easier because you refuse to be a team player. I revive downed people when I can to the point at times I might get downed myself, but in the end the ones I help usually help me back up too. That is how you're supposed to play and not only think about yourself. Would say something I've heard Charrs say but something tell me even quoting a Charr here would just get me some warning so I'll just say... let me leech until revived then I can help out. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > > > > > > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. > > > > > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. > > > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are the exact same thing, period. This isn't an argument, it's what they do, leech. > > Yeah because as I mentioned before in my case. > Many times I waypoint back to the area, when I see people being piggish and not helping anyone and just say "Waypoint back" and never help people downed? Yeah, if because now I refuse to waypoint because not a single person is helping, then call me a leech. > I've heard that while dead it just makes things harder as enemies and bosses and other things scale based on the bodies in the area. IF people so much in a rush to refuse to help a down person to the point they now are dead... then you know what? NOW it will be harder to help me up because no one helped me while downed and now need a few to help me revive. > I'm not going to make your life easier because you refuse to be a team player. > I revive downed people when I can to the point at times I might get downed myself, but in the end the ones I help usually help me back up too. That is how you're supposed to play and not only think about yourself. > Would say something I've heard Charrs say but something tell me even quoting a Charr here would just get me some warning so I'll just say... let me leech until revived then I can help out. > Thank you. If you are willing to purposefully sabotage the team's goal(s) why should they help you? As to how people are, "supposed to play," I don't think that you get to decide that for anyone other than yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 The bonus charge option is pointless. Just boost participation decay like 500% when fully defeated and community will soon learn how to WP during events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Ashen.2907 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > > > > > > They want to be rezzed, obviously. > > > > > > > > > > So you mean they want to leech. Wanting to be revived isn't a valid argument when it would take them less time to get back to the action if they ported rather than wait for a slow revive. > > > > > > > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are not the same thing. If they wanted to leech they would hang back at maximum distance and auto attack. This isn't an "argument"; it is what they're doing. Period. It doesn't take less time to revive than run back, because if they get 5 or so people doing the rezzing then the fallen get back up pretty quickly. > > > > > > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are the exact same thing, period. This isn't an argument, it's what they do, leech. > > > > Yeah because as I mentioned before in my case. > > Many times I waypoint back to the area, when I see people being piggish and not helping anyone and just say "Waypoint back" and never help people downed? Yeah, if because now I refuse to waypoint because not a single person is helping, then call me a leech. > > I've heard that while dead it just makes things harder as enemies and bosses and other things scale based on the bodies in the area. IF people so much in a rush to refuse to help a down person to the point they now are dead... then you know what? NOW it will be harder to help me up because no one helped me while downed and now need a few to help me revive. > > I'm not going to make your life easier because you refuse to be a team player. > > I revive downed people when I can to the point at times I might get downed myself, but in the end the ones I help usually help me back up too. That is how you're supposed to play and not only think about yourself. > > Would say something I've heard Charrs say but something tell me even quoting a Charr here would just get me some warning so I'll just say... let me leech until revived then I can help out. > > Thank you. > > If you are willing to purposefully sabotage the team's goal(s) why should they help you? > > As to how people are, "supposed to play," I don't think that you get to decide that for anyone other than yourself. And you decide how I'm supposed to play? Hypocritical much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > Wanting to be revived and wanting to leech are the exact same thing, period. This isn't an argument, it's what they do, leech. It's not. They sincerely believe that the best way to do the event is to wait for a rez if they die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > I revive downed people when I can to the point at times I might get downed myself, but in the end the ones I help usually help me back up too. That is how you're supposed to play and not only think about yourself. Reviving the dead means you waste time, you risk getting killed yourself, you don't help your team with CC and many many other things, so when you do revive dead people you are indeed thinking only about yourself and that person you are reviving while screwing the rest of the group. Try to think about all the players around and not only yourself next time and stop being selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > The person hanging back is providing minimal contribution but still more than the dead person. While those 5 people are reviving the dead person the dead person is effectively doing negative damage that would make it worse than leeching. The "negative damage" is compensated by having the dead come back faster than using a waypoint. That is bonus damage that wouldn't otherwise be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > I revive downed people when I can to the point at times I might get downed myself, but in the end the ones I help usually help me back up too. That is how you're supposed to play and not only think about yourself. > > Reviving the dead means you waste time, you risk getting killed yourself, you don't help your team with CC and many many other things, so when you do revive dead people you are indeed thinking only about yourself and that person you are reviving while screwing the rest of the group. Try to think about all the players around and not only yourself next time and stop being selfish. Rather help people who's almost dead than an event that is on constant rotation over the day. Maybe I don't have the piggish mentality as those that does raids or high end fractals as I don't do raids or high end fractals. Players come 1st. Stupid metas come last. You can care about "GOTTA GO FAST!" I care about "Everyone getting a chance to play and getting help when down." I guess I'm leeching too for not worrying about attacking when someone is dying literally 1 foot away from me. So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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