Why hasnt Scourge been nerfed yet?

[Zero.3871]

and it happened again, a l2p issue thread. you EVER talk about dmg of scourge. but YOU NEVER TALK ABOUT BLOCKS AND INVULS AND INVIS AND MOBILITY. you say scourge is tanky? scourge EVER get dmg, EVER can be seen, EVER in range to hit it. while all the other classes can use blocks and invuls and invis to negate dmg, scourge only have very small amount of barrier.

Weaver hits with 28.000 DMG hits. Deadeye hits with 20.000+ Hits, mesmer too. rev hammer hits with 10k+ hits every 4 seconds on 1200 range.

 

if sourge dmg should be reduced. scourge should get this blocks, invuls and invis and dodge skills too. if scourge dont get, scourge keep its dmg.

[Solori.6025]

> @DoctorWunderbar.5037 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @juno.1840 said:

> > > > @Jski.6180 said:

> > > > Scourge has a few problems with it that need to be address and its going to be painful to do it.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge are to tankly. As a necro it should be just as tankly as its life force but because of scourge not "whereing" its mana like pool its able to keep barrier on it self with out giving up its cast much like a core necor dose or reaper. This lets the scourge get heal by there team mate at all times and still have a cover over tool to hid there hp from attks.

> > >

> > > The gear makes the condi-build tanky. Technically the scourge is a less tanky due to loss of Death/Reaper's shroud. Yeah there's a barrier but that's a weak replacement for shroud. It's a trade-off for having the shades available all the time.

> > >

> >

> > Barrier is a support mechanic, and can be applied to allies. This makes Scourges stronger in numbers

> > > @DoctorWunderbar.5037 said:

> > > The problem people have with both scourge and rev is the lack of trades off you make in order to be successful.

> > >

> > > Scourges dont have to sacrifice much in terms of health or armor in order to do well against a group. Trailblazers, Cele, Dire all promote no-sacrifice playstyle. I can not only strip boons, do insane amounts of damage, and condi pressure without having to risk anything. Its the same thing with Revenant.

> > >

> > > Revs get 2 heals (herald being one of the best in the game), a VERY high damage 1200 range 4 second cd skill, access to on demand resistance, good mobility along with having decent starting health and armor. So again, there isn't much to sacrifice in terms of being successful for a power rev (which is only a problem now because of lack of protection availability thanks to necro).

> > >

> >

> > Rev is extremely weak to condition/cc pressure. Also CoR, while strong is easily mitigated by proper positioning. It only hits on level terrain, and cannot hit anything beyond that like targets on a wall, siege etc.

> >

> > Scourge sacrifices Shroud in exchange for barriers and shade skills. In order to maximize damage, you basically need to spam your shades skills which will cost you a ton of life force and can leave you vulnerable. Those shade skills are also important for defense, as well as offense so you always have to be careful to manage your life force and cooldowns.

> >

> > Stat combos are not unique to any class, so its not a fair comparison. Any class can be tanky and do a lot of damage with the right gear.

>

> How is having access to resistance on demand being weak to conditions? Or having an elite skill that makes you take 50% less condition damage? Or a heal skill that removes conditions? Also I like how rev's weaknesses are literal bugs in the game. "Obstructed" by tiny hills and valleys and by walls? You dont say? Good thing theres Hammer 5 and 3 as well as auto attack.

 

 

 

Have you ever played rev?

 

You don't take mallyx ( which gives you resistance on demand) in a power build, you gimp yourself

You dont take kalla stance in pvp EVER, this shouldnt need explaining if you actually played it

A heal skill that removes condies, in Jalis, because nothing, and I mean nothing could possibly go wrong with having the only condi removal in a utility set tied to your heal skill.

 

Play a revanant before posting like you know it.

 

Also Rifle Holo? what sacrifice

[Kovu.7560]

> @Coolguy.8702 said:

> Thats a load of kitten, **try standing in 1 of their shades** and you'll notice at least 8 kinds of condis on you in a second.

 

You know, there's a solution to that. Try not standing in one of their shades.

Also, a shade skill that applies 8 conditions? Please elaborate.

 

Scourge has the least sustain of any necro spec.

 

~ Kovu

[Justine.6351]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> and it happened again, a l2p issue thread. you EVER talk about dmg of scourge. but YOU NEVER TALK ABOUT BLOCKS AND INVULS AND INVIS AND MOBILITY. you say scourge is tanky? scourge EVER get dmg, EVER can be seen, EVER in range to hit it. while all the other classes can use blocks and invuls and invis to negate dmg, scourge only have very small amount of barrier.

> Weaver hits with 28.000 DMG hits. Deadeye hits with 20.000+ Hits, mesmer too. rev hammer hits with 10k+ hits every 4 seconds on 1200 range.

>

> if sourge dmg should be reduced. scourge should get this blocks, invuls and invis and dodge skills too. if scourge dont get, scourge keep its dmg.

 

Why do people keep bringing up scourge Damage. Its the non-telegraphed ranged aoe corrupts that are the issue. Which is what makes Rev Hammer deal any damage in zerging atm.

[xDudisx.5914]

> @Kovu.7560 said:

> > @Coolguy.8702 said:

> > Thats a load of kitten, **try standing in 1 of their shades** and you'll notice at least 8 kinds of condis on you in a second.

>

> You know, there's a solution to that. Try not standing in one of their shades.

> Also, a shade skill that applies 8 conditions? Please elaborate.

>

> Scourge has the least sustain of any necro spec.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

1)In spvp the shade is enough to cover the entire point.

2) Shade skills occurs around the necro, not only the shade.

3) Shade skills are insta cast and on a very low cd.

4) Telling people to never go melee is not a viable counter. It just proves the spec is broken.

 

5) Bugged path of corruption with nefarious favor was corrupting 4 boons instead of two. Manifest shade = 3 condis with duhmfire. There you get 7 condis in a 0.5s cast ranged aoe skill. Cast garish pillar together and you go up to 8 condis. Also the effect of some rune/trait/sigil can proc togheter making it give even more condi. The bug was fixed tonight, so at least it go a bit less broken.

[Coolguy.8702]

> @Kovu.7560 said:

> > @Coolguy.8702 said:

> > Thats a load of kitten, **try standing in 1 of their shades** and you'll notice at least 8 kinds of condis on you in a second.

>

> You know, there's a solution to that. Try not standing in one of their shades.

> Also, a shade skill that applies 8 conditions? Please elaborate.

>

> Scourge has the least sustain of any necro spec.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

Another triggered scourge main... Listen foo1 not standing in 1 of scourge shades is very hard to do if you play a melee build like i do as Manifest Shade has 900 range and sand savants radius is huge and the constant cripples and fear makes it hard to get out. As for the 8 condis, you can just check this forum for video of a player getting 8 diferent kinds. I can tell your a pve player which explains how you dont know corrupts turn boons into condis and how much cover condis the curses traitline gives. Also scourge not having sustain doesnt mean shit since they can be healed and supported in zerg fights by your ele or firebrand. Try again so I can disprove you some more

[Sovereign.1093]

keep trying on balancing since it is your job devs.

 

pls bring back tourney and make gw2 great again.

[ThunderPanda.1872]

How do you fight a half decent scourge with power holosmith? Range isn’t much of an option, melee gets me heaps of condi

[Sovereign.1093]

f2 should have more condi remove heh. f1 should have more range and targets. f3 should have more barrier and let it be based on power. f4 should fear longer and f5 should burst very fast dps

[Chaba.5410]

> @Coolguy.8702 said:

> > @Kovu.7560 said:

> > > @Coolguy.8702 said:

> > > Thats a load of kitten, **try standing in 1 of their shades** and you'll notice at least 8 kinds of condis on you in a second.

> >

> > You know, there's a solution to that. Try not standing in one of their shades.

> > Also, a shade skill that applies 8 conditions? Please elaborate.

> >

> > Scourge has the least sustain of any necro spec.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> Another triggered scourge main... Listen foo1 not standing in 1 of scourge shades is very hard to do if you play a melee build like i do as Manifest Shade has 900 range and sand savants radius is huge and the constant cripples and fear makes it hard to get out. As for the 8 condis, you can just check this forum for video of a player getting 8 diferent kinds. I can tell your a pve player which explains how you dont know corrupts turn boons into condis and how much cover condis the curses traitline gives. Also scourge not having sustain doesnt mean kitten since they can be healed and supported in zerg fights by your ele or firebrand. Try again so I can disprove you some more

 

Kovu mains ranger. But I play melee and know what you're talking about, though I have to say most of the problems you experience is related to a breakdown in group play. It's pretty easy to not stand in the sand shades with a competent group.

[Crossaber.8934]

Condition removal skills need some overhaul.

 

Rework condition removal skill to see all damage conditions as a single condition and as priority one to remove. (Burn, bleed, confusion, tornment, i will keep poison out of this list)

 

For example an originally remove 1 condition skill now remove all damage condition; A skill remove 2 conditions now remove all damage conditions +1 additional condition. As the list go on, it all comes down to remove all damage condition + X conditions.

 

Since damage condi are easier to cleanse as a result, we will see more cripple, chill, poison etc as an effective way to support a team fight.

 

 

[X T D.6458]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> I don't really understand why people are even asking questions about balance. ANet can't balance for anything and they've shown ineptitude since even before HoT. The expansions just exacerbated the problem.

>

> Expecting anything less indicates you were either playing something OP and/or just not really informed about the game-state :\

 

Yea I would not encourage anyone to hope for "balance" but at least they focused a little more on counter play since PoF. > @Crossaber.8934 said:

> Condition removal skills need some overhaul.

>

> Rework condition removal skill to see all damage conditions as a single condition and as priority one to remove. (Burn, bleed, confusion, tornment, i will keep poison out of this list)

>

> For example an originally remove 1 condition skill now remove all damage condition; A skill remove 2 conditions now remove all damage conditions +1 additional condition. As the list go on, it all comes down to remove all damage condition + X conditions.

>

> Since damage condi are easier to cleanse as a result, we will see more cripple, chill, poison etc as an effective way to support a team fight.

>

>

They should split the cleanses, so a cleanse skill that removes 2 conditions for example will always remove 1 damaging and one non-damaging condition if present, other wise it should cleanse those 2 damaging conditions. It is very annoying when using a cleanse skill and it removes the 1 stack of vulnerability and leaves the 15 stacks of bleeding or w/e.

 

[Swamurabi.7890]

Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there.

 

Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids.

The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids.

**WvW uses PvE skills**.

 

Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums?

 

Just something to think about.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

the only way to fix scourge is to remove it completely. It is THAT broken.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there.

>

> Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids.

> The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids.

> **WvW uses PvE skills**.

>

> Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums?

>

> Just something to think about.

 

^^ this

 

Each class has a game mode it's most successful at... think about it from that perspective.

 

They want you to be ABLE to play any class in an area, but they want you to WANT to play different classes in each area.

[Junkpile.7439]

Scourge is totally broken in PvE. It's like frigging one man army.

 

> @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

> How do you fight a half decent scourge with power holosmith? Range isn’t much of an option, melee gets me heaps of condi

Follow commander and smash buttons? You want that scourge is good 1 vs 1 fights too while some classes are totally trash at everything? :D

 

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there.

> >

> > Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids.

> > The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids.

> > **WvW uses PvE skills**.

> >

> > Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums?

> >

> > Just something to think about.

>

> ^^ this

>

> Each class has a game mode it's most successful at... think about it from that perspective.

>

> They want you to be ABLE to play any class in an area, but they want you to WANT to play different classes in each area.

 

That's the dumbest class design and balance i hever saw in a game.....

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > > Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there.

> > >

> > > Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids.

> > > The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids.

> > > **WvW uses PvE skills**.

> > >

> > > Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums?

> > >

> > > Just something to think about.

> >

> > ^^ this

> >

> > Each class has a game mode it's most successful at... think about it from that perspective.

> >

> > They want you to be ABLE to play any class in an area, but they want you to WANT to play different classes in each area.

>

> That's the dumbest class design and balance i hever saw in a game.....

 

Maybe so. Why did you buy the game then? It has been that way since launch, with blasts and combo fields which have truly been forgotten.

[Sovereign.1093]

anet should separate wvw from pve. like toughness for power damage mitigation, introduce something similar to mitigate condi

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > > > Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there.

> > > >

> > > > Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids.

> > > > The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids.

> > > > **WvW uses PvE skills**.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums?

> > > >

> > > > Just something to think about.

> > >

> > > ^^ this

> > >

> > > Each class has a game mode it's most successful at... think about it from that perspective.

> > >

> > > They want you to be ABLE to play any class in an area, but they want you to WANT to play different classes in each area.

> >

> > That's the dumbest class design and balance i hever saw in a game.....

>

> Maybe so. Why did you buy the game then? It has been that way since launch, with blasts and combo fields which have truly been forgotten.

 

Was expecting the game to envolve mechanically not based in spam and power creep to cater the pve'ers. :\

 

I actually didnt bough PoF, nor intend to get it.

 

> @Sovereign.1093 said:

> anet should separate wvw from pve. like toughness for power damage mitigation, introduce something similar to mitigate condi

 

That might be way to much work for them, they might not have the team for it.

IMO the factors that are makign the game power creep is what ANet does not want to change cause that was/is the main objective of the game, create a game where players that are awfull at mmo's or dont have time, will get stuff done w/o much effort, ence all the aoe spam, the cleaves spam, easy acces to damage output etc.

They want the game to be offensive easilly, and very basic game, even on pvp high damge and easy access to power creep momment helps a pve player to stand (as in it cuts the gap between them) against a more player that is more used to pvp enviroments, due the easy access to damage and easy gimmicks the pve player can compete withing the high ranks playign the right gimmick.

 

Spvp is made easy, so pve players have access to high damage build, based on gimmicks, skill rotations etc, the learning curve isnt much cause there arent much mechanics envolved the game fights at all.

 

WvW, they added tons of rewards, so the servers with more population can ktrain those and the outmaned servers still gain PiP to easy access of rewards, u canm even ignore fights and be reawarded in this game...

 

Pve... the evil source of all this mess.

 

[Jski.6180]

> @juno.1840 said:

> > @Jski.6180 said:

> > Scourge has a few problems with it that need to be address and its going to be painful to do it.

> >

> > Scourge are to tankly. As a necro it should be just as tankly as its life force but because of scourge not "whereing" its mana like pool its able to keep barrier on it self with out giving up its cast much like a core necor dose or reaper. This lets the scourge get heal by there team mate at all times and still have a cover over tool to hid there hp from attks.

>

> The gear makes the condi-build tanky. Technically the scourge is a less tanky due to loss of Death/Reaper's shroud. Yeah there's a barrier but that's a weak replacement for shroud. It's a trade-off for having the shades available all the time.

>

 

There more to it then just having the added hp from DS that makes Scourge tankly more so then the other 2 necor classes. That you can be healed and self heal when using your DS skills gose a long way as well as not being locked out of your uititly skills. You can gear up as much as you want and gear the same for the necro classes but side by side scorge is far more tankly then core necro and reaper (more so now with the higher DS use).

[Fade.5904]

I don't know why they didn't just give Scourges a shroud from the beginning and make the sand shades etc only usable in shroud, that way they wouldn't have to nerf them so hard.

Also it would give 'in shroud' traits much more synergy.

I get they want to try something different but its really not working, it's like giving thieves their stealth hit skills 100% of the time.

[Crossaber.8934]

I felt it is much better now in wvw as soon as they fix path of corruption, not saying scourge is balanced but it is not far away.

Anyway, condi spam is still crazy but it is not a scourge only issue, the class wide condi spam should be deal with, along with CC spam, to create a better player vs player experience.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @Sovereign.1093 said:

> f4 should fear longer

Sometimes I take Fear of Death and Terror, it's pretty nasty muhahah.

 

[Trajan.4953]

LOL Scourge is broken AF, If you argue this then you play Scourge and are reaping the benefits. The class mechanics are totally OP in WvW and all your counters don't change that fact.

 

At it's core it is fine but its implementation it simply has too much burst damage.