Heart Of Thorns Hero Points

[Cyninja.2954]

> @AliamRationem.5172 said:

> I spent several hours recording video in the HoT maps yesterday. The HoT maps are teeming with players. From the perspective of a player attempting to record solo champion videos, it was downright annoying! I must have helped kill the Zintl Inquisitor 10 times before I got a clear shot at it! And it only takes me 2 minutes to kill that guy!

>

> HoT haters have been predicting the death of that expansion pretty much since the day it came out. Well, now PoF is here. We no longer have to speculate! Are the HoT maps dead? Not even close. Can we just bury this bogus argument already? Go ahead and dig it up the day we have reason to believe that it's become a legitimate issue. Right now HoT looks more active than PoF!

>

> In any event, I like the HoT HP challenges the way they are.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Hopefully some of our forum warriors actually take the time to go and actually play the game instead of repeating their nonsense mumbo jumbo.

 

HoT was never dead and as far as replay-ability seems to outperform PoF. Of course if you log on during off hours, don't use the LFG and actively go out of your way to not meet another player, then yes, HoT might seem deserted.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Except you can solo them if you get creative. I enjoy the challenge in HoT hero points, don't ruin it for everybody else just because you cannot figure out how to dodge very obvious patterns. They're all simple (albeit not forgiving) with the exception of the mushroom queen at TD.

There's plenty of champions elsewhere, don't ruin map completion for everyone else.

[OneYenShort.3189]

Damn if this doesn't look like the same thing from just 4 days ago.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/208336

 

Already answered there with logic that points towards no changes forth coming.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

Just to highlight that there are trains for HPs in HoT on a daily basis, nearly at any times of the day. There is no slowing down on that and I don't believe there will ever be, simply because those 10 points HP will always be needed to reach elites faster, and there are always new toons created who require those once at level 80.

 

Also, they are part of map completion so this is normal that they remain challenging. All in all, I would not like to see a downgrading of those HPs.

[Haleydawn.3764]

Regardless of whether I can solo HoT hps or not, I don’t think I’ve ever repeated them on a character that’s already done them ‘for the challenge’. I’ve gone the HP train route, I’ve used Proofs. I’ve done them all at least 8 times over.

There’s far more content that is more rewarding and challenging than these HoT HPs that you’re all defending. Screaming out they should be challenging... Just because? Because map completion? No, no other maps in game gate map completion behind group events. There’s the odd Orr Temple that will need recapping or the HP in Malchors that has a flying champion, both of which can be circumvented.

That’s why I’m in the nerf camp. Map completion for **the average player** shouldn’t require anyone but the player themselves, HoT is still more focussed on group play and meta-event cycles, that will not change, but something as simple as Hero Points shouldn’t be group events. I’m also against map gating behind group events, easily solvable for all HoT maps except for Dragon Stand maybe.

 

Good for you if you can solo X champion in HoT. For the average player they’re too much. It’s rare I see a train during my game time. So let’s get you off your high horses, and look at the issue from the average players eyes.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Except you can solo them if you get creative. I enjoy the challenge in HoT hero points, don't ruin it for everybody else just because you cannot figure out how to dodge very obvious patterns. They're all simple (albeit not forgiving) with the exception of the mushroom queen at TD.

> There's plenty of champions elsewhere, don't ruin map completion for everyone else.

 

Judging by most of the replies in this thread, your "everyone else" is in fact _not_ everyone else.

[Razor.6392]

> @Haleydawn.3764 said:

> Regardless of whether I can solo HoT hps or not, I don’t think I’ve ever repeated them on a character that’s already done them ‘for the challenge’. I’ve gone the HP train route, I’ve used Proofs. I’ve done them all at least 8 times over.

> There’s far more content that is more rewarding and challenging than these HoT HPs that you’re all defending. Screaming out they should be challenging... Just because? Because map completion? No, no other maps in game gate map completion behind group events. There’s the odd Orr Temple that will need recapping or the HP in Malchors that has a flying champion, both of which can be circumvented.

> That’s why I’m in the nerf camp. Map completion for **the average player** shouldn’t require anyone but the player themselves, HoT is still more focussed on group play and meta-event cycles, that will not change, but something as simple as Hero Points shouldn’t be group events. I’m also against map gating behind group events, easily solvable for all HoT maps except for Dragon Stand maybe.

>

> Good for you if you can solo X champion in HoT. For the average player they’re too much. It’s rare I see a train during my game time. So let’s get you off your high horses, and look at the issue from the average players eyes.

 

There are plenty other games out there made for "the average player" (I find it funny how you so nonchalantly call every average player inepts), hell, _most_ of the pve content in gw2 already caters to the lowest common denominator yet you want more.

[Rukia.9860]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Dayra.7405 said:

> > Alternative: Play a bit WvW and buy the HP's you can't solo with the rewards (Proofs of Heroics from WvW rank-up chests) you get there.

>

> WvW is pretty much a "PvP HP Train" in that case.

 

It's the only reason I played that horribly boring mode to get HP for my alts elite spec.

[otto.5684]

> @Haleydawn.3764 said:

> Regardless of whether I can solo HoT hps or not, I don’t think I’ve ever repeated them on a character that’s already done them ‘for the challenge’. I’ve gone the HP train route, I’ve used Proofs. I’ve done them all at least 8 times over.

> There’s far more content that is more rewarding and challenging than these HoT HPs that you’re all defending. Screaming out they should be challenging... Just because? Because map completion? No, no other maps in game gate map completion behind group events. There’s the odd Orr Temple that will need recapping or the HP in Malchors that has a flying champion, both of which can be circumvented.

> That’s why I’m in the nerf camp. Map completion for **the average player** shouldn’t require anyone but the player themselves, HoT is still more focussed on group play and meta-event cycles, that will not change, but something as simple as Hero Points shouldn’t be group events. I’m also against map gating behind group events, easily solvable for all HoT maps except for Dragon Stand maybe.

>

> Good for you if you can solo X champion in HoT. For the average player they’re too much. It’s rare I see a train during my game time. So let’s get you off your high horses, and look at the issue from the average players eyes.

 

After the “average player” have finished all the super easy content why should not there be content that offer some challenge?

 

Not everything should be tailored for clueless.

[Haleydawn.3764]

Not everything should be tailored for the Über either. Map completion is where I draw the line. It should be a solo venture. I was adamant about this when HoT was released.

 

There lots of challenge in game that is better than the HPs, you guys acting like gods because you can solo 90% of them is hilarious. Some people just don’t have the skill, which is fine, but that means they can’t map Complete if they want to without a group of people or to ‘git gud’ acording to this thread. Now tell me where the problem is? Elitist saying map completion should be challenging/ group content, not like there isn’t anything else challenging in game, or bringing back map completion to be how it was, a solo task.

If the rewards were better for doing these HPs, it would justify keeping them as champions, alas they are abysmal.

 

Just as a comparison, I still see requests for help on the PoF hero points from new players. Yeah, those veteran HPs with better skill rotation than previous content HPs, so what is an average player? How long is a piece of string. Your definition of solo challenge is another players definition of impossible solo.

[Haishao.6851]

> @Haleydawn.3764 said:

> Not everything should be tailored for the Über either. Map completion is where I draw the line. It should be a solo venture. I was adamant about this when HoT was released.

>

> There lots of challenge in game that is better than the HPs, you guys acting like gods because you can solo 90% of them is hilarious. Some people just don’t have the skill, which is fine, but that means they can’t map Complete if they want to without a group of people or to ‘git gud’ acording to this thread. Now tell me where the problem is? Elitist saying map completion should be challenging/ group content, not like there isn’t anything else challenging in game, or bringing back map completion to be how it was, a solo task.

> If the rewards were better for doing these HPs, it would justify keeping them as champions, alas they are abysmal.

>

> Just as a comparison, I still see requests for help on the PoF hero points from new players. Yeah, those veteran HPs with better skill rotation than previous content HPs, so what is an average player? How long is a piece of string. Your definition of solo challenge is another players definition of impossible solo.

 

A whole expansion just released that is definitely not tailored for the "Über".

HoT map completion is only needed for legendary. You don't need it for anything else. So it's perfectly fine as it is. You don't need a group to do it either, just ask for help in map and just solo next to people who show up to help as if they just happened to be there when you arrived. They most likely wont even talk to you.

 

We're not acting like we're god, we're defending content we love that is being attacked by people who hate it and want to see it reduced to trash because apparently they're more valuable players than everyone else. The reward is 10 hero points, which was more than anything before when HoT launched. They're also required to make the gift of maguuma. Which is a good enough reward imo.

HoT is the only open world content with tolerable difficulty. It was sold specifically for this and it should stay that way.

 

What you described is not average player. If it was an average player, then we'd see a lot more people unable to kill veterans and they would be asking for help every few minutes. The average players are people doing meta events, they're in Fractal t2 and t3, they're doing world bosses, they're doing bounty runs, they're farming where ever. That's what the majority of people do in PvE, they're the average players. I think the average players are playing and enjoying themselves and are not socially inept and they are able to ask for help when they find something too strong to tackle alone in a MMORPG.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

yesterday i was doing the frog HP in Verdant Brink, more joined when we talked about in mapchat and we ended up wth 7 people, the HP got upscaled with an extra elite frog. So why doesnt it downscale to Elite if your all alone, because you may came around at a more empty timeperiod?

 

 

[Batelle.1680]

Stop acting like Hero Challenges are the only challenging content in the game, too. Of all the stupid hills to defend.

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Rukia.9860 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @Dayra.7405 said:

> > > Alternative: Play a bit WvW and buy the HP's you can't solo with the rewards (Proofs of Heroics from WvW rank-up chests) you get there.

> >

> > WvW is pretty much a "PvP HP Train" in that case.

>

> It's the only reason I played that horribly boring mode to get HP for my alts elite spec.

 

I'm stuck playing it because for some reason armour just have to be stuck in sometimes WvW ONLY reward tracks.

I would assume though from the times I've been in WvW that it takes much much much longer time to even get those heroics stuff to use for hero points than to pray you see an HP train going on in HoT.

[Etterwyn.5263]

I don't have 100% in any HOT maps but I was able to get all the hero points I needed from doing the easy ones in VB AB and a little of TD. I'm not taking sides but there's definitely enough easy ones to unlock the elite spec .

[Mahou.3924]

As reference: Unlocking both Elite Specs requires roughly all of Core Tyria HPs, and for example all in AB, all but one in VB and roughly all HPs in Tangled Depths or any of other order. Depending on if it's a new alt or or an older character with already unlocked HoT spec, you can plan accordingly if you want, for example, the PoF journey with a full PoF elite spec or grab the soloable HoT points first to get the basic "feel" of the second elite specs and do other HPs in PoF.

[zealex.9410]

Old maps wont become wastelands if the new ones dont have anything of worth to draw ppl in.

[Genesis.5169]

Please no, i beg of you people leave it as is, you don't need to streamline content that's only 1 expansion old especially when people still do the content. Not everything needs to be streamlined. It doesn't take that long to do HoT HPs, and if you can't do it use map chat some one will surely come.

 

Please, anet for all that is holy lets not remove the few things that educate players on how to play the game, the OW community already knows very little about mechanics as is.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @Haishao.6851 said:

> HoT map completion is only needed for legendary. You don't need it for anything else.

 

Incorrect. HoT map completion is not needed for anything. However, map completion in and of itself is a legitimate goal, as is making a Legendary.

 

> We're not acting like we're god, we're defending content we love that is being attacked by people who hate it and want to see it reduced to trash

 

How many times do people go back and redo the HP's on characters who've already completed them? Content you love? Why do I doubt that?

 

> HoT is the only open world content with tolerable difficulty. It was sold specifically for this and it should stay that way.

 

One criticism of HoT has been that it was aimed at one demographic over another. A similar complaint (aimed at one demographic over another) has been levied against POF, including by you. Would the game not be better for everyone if there were more of a balance in each expansion?

 

> What you described is not average player. If it was an average player, then we'd see a lot more people unable to kill veterans and they would be asking for help every few minutes. The average players are people doing meta events, they're in Fractal t2 and t3, they're doing world bosses, they're doing bounty runs, they're farming where ever. That's what the majority of people do in PvE, they're the average players. I think the average players are playing and enjoying themselves and are not socially inept and they are able to ask for help when they find something too strong to tackle alone in a MMORPG.

 

While you are welcome to your opinion, I don't think it is realistic. Based on open world experience, the average player is being regularly downed, using ranger longbow or Mesmer GS at 600 range, and other indicators of relative lack of skill. I highly doubt these players are doing t2/3 fractals. I see the same thing in bounty runs that I see in other open world group content. People who play regularly with others who like the same things they do tend to think that they are a majority. Perhaps my perception of average is skewed because I don't do T2 fractals, but perhaps yours is skewed because players who think they're decent tend to hang with others they think are decent.

 

Frankly, I find PoF more enjoyable for that reason. There are times I don't care to hang with a group. Maybe I don't feel like talking or typing. Maybe I don't want to risk the headache that the effects overload can trigger at times. There are precious few goals in the over-world I find worth pursuing that can be done far from the madding crowd.

 

It's a pity that PoF lacks content you find challenging outside of bounties. If it had more to offer, maybe you would be less interested in defending once-per-character content like HoT HC's. Regardless, ANet is not going to put in the time and effort needed to convert HoT HC bosses to vets. Their concession to that player demand was to make the PoF HC's vets.

[bobsort.4097]

> @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > Some math:

> > * 204 points in Central Tyria

> > * 400 points in HoT

> > * 290 in PoF

> > * 14 'other' (specific WvW locations & the home instance Krait Obelisk)

> > * Infinite available in WvW via "Heroics" (_Proofs_ or _Testimonies_ thereof)

> >

> > So folks wishing to avoid WvW and the harder HoT challenges can complete all of PoF's plus Core's and do any of the commune-type in HoT. That's enough to max both the PoF and HoT elites. If I recall correctly, there are 11 HoT commune-type challenges, so folks can skip half of Core Tyria and do those instead.

> >

> > tl;dr so far, people aren't technically handicapped by the difficulty of HoT challenges (unless that's the only expansion they own and, if that's true, they've likely been around for a while and had time to get help).

>

> There are more than 11 HoT commune-type - the 7 in Dragon Stand are all commune. I think there are at least 4 others that are communes in TD alone.

 

They are Commune-type, however they are mostly locked behind events that these day you hardly find people doing them. specially dragon stand which I just saw it done once in last weekend.

[bobsort.4097]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> I spent several hours recording video in the HoT maps yesterday. The HoT maps are teeming with players. From the perspective of a player attempting to record solo champion videos, it was downright annoying! I must have helped kill the Zintl Inquisitor 10 times before I got a clear shot at it! And it only takes me 2 minutes to kill that guy!

>

> HoT haters have been predicting the death of that expansion pretty much since the day it came out. Well, now PoF is here. We no longer have to speculate! Are the HoT maps dead? Not even close. Can we just bury this bogus argument already? Go ahead and dig it up the day we have reason to believe that it's become a legitimate issue. Right now HoT looks more active than PoF!

>

> In any event, I like the HoT HP challenges the way they are.

 

May I have address to your hours of recorded videos in maybe youtube? what was the armor you were wearing? the class you were playing? how many times actually you did the HP points and on how many classes? I also like to see the reference to statistics that you are referring in "Right now HoT looks more active than PoF" unless you are implying that PoF is dead!

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"bobsort.4097" said:

> > @"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > Some math:

> > > * 204 points in Central Tyria

> > > * 400 points in HoT

> > > * 290 in PoF

> > > * 14 'other' (specific WvW locations & the home instance Krait Obelisk)

> > > * Infinite available in WvW via "Heroics" (_Proofs_ or _Testimonies_ thereof)

> > >

> > > So folks wishing to avoid WvW and the harder HoT challenges can complete all of PoF's plus Core's and do any of the commune-type in HoT. That's enough to max both the PoF and HoT elites. If I recall correctly, there are 11 HoT commune-type challenges, so folks can skip half of Core Tyria and do those instead.

> > >

> > > tl;dr so far, people aren't technically handicapped by the difficulty of HoT challenges (unless that's the only expansion they own and, if that's true, they've likely been around for a while and had time to get help).

> >

> > There are more than 11 HoT commune-type - the 7 in Dragon Stand are all commune. I think there are at least 4 others that are communes in TD alone.

>

> They are Commune-type, however they are mostly locked behind events that these day you hardly find people doing them. specially dragon stand which I just saw it done once in last weekend.

 

This thread was last active or remotely relevant in November, but that's alright, lets dig it up from page 90 of the forum for no apparent reason.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Vets is too hard make fight ones communion so all can have fun

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"bobsort.4097" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > I spent several hours recording video in the HoT maps yesterday. The HoT maps are teeming with players. From the perspective of a player attempting to record solo champion videos, it was downright annoying! I must have helped kill the Zintl Inquisitor 10 times before I got a clear shot at it! And it only takes me 2 minutes to kill that guy!

> >

> > HoT haters have been predicting the death of that expansion pretty much since the day it came out. Well, now PoF is here. We no longer have to speculate! Are the HoT maps dead? Not even close. Can we just bury this bogus argument already? Go ahead and dig it up the day we have reason to believe that it's become a legitimate issue. Right now HoT looks more active than PoF!

> >

> > In any event, I like the HoT HP challenges the way they are.

>

> May I have address to your hours of recorded videos in maybe youtube? what was the armor you were wearing? the class you were playing? how many times actually you did the HP points and on how many classes? I also like to see the reference to statistics that you are referring in "Right now HoT looks more active than PoF" unless you are implying that PoF is dead!

 

I'm not clear what your purpose is here. You seem to be picking out all of the least relevant details and questioning them outside of the context of the discussion. Why does it matter which class or armor I was using to make solo boss videos or how many classes I completed the challenge on? The point I made was that HoT is populated (So is PoF, for that matter!). This "maps are dead, can't complete HP challenges" argument is as old as HoT. I just don't see it. And no, I don't have statistics to support that claim. It's purely anecdotal - 2+ years of anecdotal evidence I call "Playing HoT".

 

But you asked, so here you go. I made this video the other day of the Zintl Inquisitor. I have several videos of him at different times on my channel. I use this one and the chak lobber in AB as open world benchmarks to compare before/after major patches. This video was recorded following the confusion nerf, but before the torment fix. If you compare it to my earlier videos (such as pre- and post- axe nerf) you can get an idea of how each patch impacts Mirage performance in open world.

 

You can see the rest of my videos on my channel from there if you like. It's all Tempest and Mirage so far, as I only started doing videos a few months ago and those are the classes I've played in that time. The Mirage in this video is running axe/torch, staff, with full viper stats and using a variant of the axe clone raid build (Chaos 1-3-3, Dueling 2-2-1, Mirage 1-3-1).

 

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Vets is too hard make fight ones communion so all can have fun

 

By that logic we should just eliminate all combat from GW2 and make it into a pure explorations and resource-gathering game.

On an un-related note, have you heard of Farmville?