Why everyone is so concerned about Meta and effectiveness in PvE?

[Shirlias.8104]

It is known that you can clear raids with a huge amount of time left, if your squad is good and your classes and builds are meta.

This means that content can be cleared mostly whatever the classes/builds.

 

If players chose to use meta builds instead different builds is to:

 

1. Lower the failure chances by playing a more efficient setup which always also consists in a easy mode ( better classes, or builds, which are easier to play and grants the possibility of more errors before wipe ).

2. Time requirement in terms of content ( overall if you need 3 hours to clear everything with no fail attempt, not so many players would like to invest 4 hours to do the same content, also because of point 1. Why should the risk to redo a specific encouter, losing their time, many times because of not optimal setup? )

3. PUG. If you don't play with a guild and maybe a vocal chat, point 1 and 2 will definitely add a huge amount of time.

4. Failing because reasons could be frustrating ( unless you are trying to do some video like "10 thieves clear XX" or "solo warrior Fractal 500 though it does not exists!" ), and somehow bringing The class, the build, the equipment, the consumables and the boss knowledge is meant to be respectful towards your team.

 

That said, everybody can ask about the team he's going to join.

Complaing about those who want to be perfectionists is senselss and selfish.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Halan.8951 said:

> tldr: Why such emphasis on being super-optimized in an ultimately very casual game? Why groups are so rigid in class selection? And why ruin the game for others with demands, and create endless frustration on forums?

 

Because ultimately it's not a very casual game. Not in its high-end content. To be precise, going very casual in said high-end content (t4 fractals, cms and raids) makes the game considerably harder than it is using a some sort of optimized party composition and builds. And not harder in the good sense, just the annoying kind of harder. People do random stuff, get downed all the time, fail mechanics, etc. It is quite frustrating to see all that happen after you've experienced the very same content with a competent group. You know the content is easy, you know all the struggle is not necessary. In a sense, the emphasis on meta is about minimizing the risk of this bad experience. Which is totally understandable and valid.

 

Of course, said risk can be minimized in a multitude of ways. I'm very certain there are off-meta compositions capable of smooth clears. However, this requires you to tailor your party and builds to the strengths and weaknesses of every character. Essentially, you'll be theorycrafting your party every time. It's just too much of an effort, and a pretty wasted one when there's an established meta which just works.

[Rennie.6750]

It boils down to two things: ignorance and being unable to think by themselves. They know little about the game and need a master to tell them what to do. That being said, people advocating for runs with "anything" are just the same kind of players with a different premise. While I find the emphasis on the metagame short sighted and stupid, someone advocating for something like tanking stats on a warrior can probably safely be labelled as a terrible player too.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> It boils down to two things: ignorance and being unable to think by themselves. They know little about the game and need a master to tell them what to do. That being said, people advocating for runs with "anything" are just the same kind of players with a different premise. While I find the emphasis on the metagame short sighted and stupid, someone advocating for something like tanking stats on a warrior can probably safely be labelled as a terrible player too.

 

No mate, I'm perfectly capable of thinking by myself, but it's my (limited) free time and I just want to relax and have fun. If I want a brain burner I play Go. It's not an oversight (or a shortsight) when I want a meta party, it's a deliberate choice I'm making because it's a better use of said free time.

[lokh.2695]

It's a numbers game and MMOs always are, at least until you factor in personal player capability, understanding of mechanics and positioning. There's always a highest DMG output, a most effective way to share boons and a fastest way to do things. Can't avoid that I guess. The good thing with GW2 however is, that 90% of the content doesn't need you to to go for the minmaxed numbers, you don't need to have perfect boon uptime and most of the time, standing an inch to the left or the right doesn't decide wether or not you're going to survive.

 

The Meta mostly concerns instanced content, where you are a set group of ppl depending on another to clear the content. In the open world, you can play whatever you like, sure some things are more effective as others and with some setups you will maybe die a lot or take forever to kill mobs, but in the end, it's how you play the game and if you don't mind dieing and rezing or taking your time with every single mob, go for it, don't let anyone tell you how to play the game.

Sure, the game let's you nullify almost every attack via:

- movement(only a few skills root you, so you're free to move out of that red circle of impending doom)

- dodges(all classses)

- evades(most classes with select weapon and utility skills)

- blocks(approx half of the classes, but some do share)

- invulnerabiliy(also approximately half of the classes)

- teleports(which convert into movement, see above, maybe one third of the classes)

 

So there's not an actual need for defensive stats like toughness, vitality, healing power or concentration if you can get around the damage using whatever of the above your class has to offer. Still there's no need to therfor run only offensive stats either in most parts of the game.

 

What I would consider high-end content in GW2 starts with Fractals above maybe Lvl80, goes on with the challenge modes for Lvl99 and Lvl100, continues to Raids and their respective challenge modes. That's it. One can even argue about non-challenge Fractals being still very casual friendly in not having a timer, therfor not having the pressure of doing X damage in Y seconds, just surviving long enough to eventually kill the mobs. Outside of these areas, I don't know about the WvW side of things though, minmaxing, rigidly following the metabuilds and rotations and avoiding every attack by positioning/blocks/evades is a nice thing to have/do but not required to make your way through the game.

But ppl are impatient, and once you had a really good run in a dungeon, fractal or raid, where everything went smooth and easy, everyone knew what needed to be done, the dmg was perfect and mechanics were handled without further problems, once you know how good a good run feels and how fast a boss can be killed, you get a different perspective on the more casual runs, where ppl die a lot because they don't walk out of AoEs, where bosses take forever because ppl opted for toughness/vitality/healing power/concentration gear while still playing a DPS build. I know those good runs and I appreciate them a lot, but it's nothing I demand of peers to provide for me. I hope I can carry my own weight, do my very best to survive and not fail at dmg/heal/support/whateveri'msupposedtodo. Other ppl do demand those runs from their peers and are hit with dissapointment when they find out that "this won't be one for the records". I witnessed these situations mostly with pugs, and mostly because ppl don't read what's in the lfg or don't write what they're looking for and just assume the other player shares the same values and believes when it comes to "the meta".

[zinkz.7045]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > > > >I'm absolutely not sure how GW2 raid and fractal difficulty compares to WoW diffuculty. Do you need same lvl of optimization for Forsaken Thicket like for Mythic Tomb of Sargeras? If no, then any class goes.

> > > >

> > > > GW2 raids are a joke, most of the bosses (supposedly designed for 10 man groups) have been completed by groups using 10 of one class (done with multiple classes), people 4-6 manning the raids and I think 2 bosses were even soloed by a condi thief, which makes all the meta nonsense even more funny, you can complete the raids in this game with nearly any composition. (and remember there is no out-gearing or out-leveling raids in this game, so this is literally the laughably termed "end game" raids)

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The solo's done by thief exploited bugs (or rather shortsighted design).

> > >

> > > Yes they've been cleared by low man groups, or all class groups. The thing to remember is those groups also already knew the fights going in and had pretty much mastered the mechanics required to do so. It's not quite a fair comparison to use these groups either as they all used Meta builds to do so.

> > >

> >

> > You missed the point, he asked about the difficulty of GW2 raids, in most games if players could complete the "hardest content in the game" (well in PvE at least) with half the players the raid was designed for, then people would think the devs had massively screwed up and hugely under-tuned the raid (or failed to spot an exploit), but in GW2 that is simply where the bar is set, very, very low.

> >

> > And yes they used meta classes when they 4-6 man it, but that is the point, the raids in GW2 have such a wide margin for success that you only actually need to run an optimal comp to under-man it, with 10 people you can run nearly any comp, hence the fuss some people make about "meta" is laughable and just shows the GW2 PvE playerbase for what it is.

>

> No, you kinda missed my point...

 

Not really, I responded to a comment asking about the difficulty of raids and gave examples of why the raids in GW2 are a joke, you then answered with that they used meta builds to underman those raids, that is irrelevant to the point I was replying to asking about the difficulty.

 

The point is, which you keep avoiding and going off on a tangent is that the raids are so undertuned that if people put a bit of effort in they can do "10 man" raids with 4-6 players, doesn't matter that they use meta builds, the fact is that shows what a joke GW2 raids are in terms of "difficulty", it isn't possible to do that in most games, because raids in most games have much tighter margins for success than in GW2.

 

 

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @Haishao.6851 said:

> > @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > I'm more and more convinced that the people from Qtfy who post meta builds do it to monopolize raiding for the select few so that they can charge everyone else a fee for raid runs while teaching no one actual raid mechanics.

>

> I wonder who taught that "select few" about raid mechanics?

>

 

It's sarcasm. :wink: Although the way everyone is blowing raids out of proportion it wouldn't surprise me. Raids aren't exactly welcoming unless you're meta, and people already confirmed in this thread that you don't have to be meta to finish raids and that raids are a joke, so i wonder who those 100g runs in raids are for and who is wrong here.

Threads like this pop up every now and then and people discuss this into oblivion and come to no conclusion because there is none to be made.

[TexZero.7910]

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > > > > >I'm absolutely not sure how GW2 raid and fractal difficulty compares to WoW diffuculty. Do you need same lvl of optimization for Forsaken Thicket like for Mythic Tomb of Sargeras? If no, then any class goes.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW2 raids are a joke, most of the bosses (supposedly designed for 10 man groups) have been completed by groups using 10 of one class (done with multiple classes), people 4-6 manning the raids and I think 2 bosses were even soloed by a condi thief, which makes all the meta nonsense even more funny, you can complete the raids in this game with nearly any composition. (and remember there is no out-gearing or out-leveling raids in this game, so this is literally the laughably termed "end game" raids)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The solo's done by thief exploited bugs (or rather shortsighted design).

> > > >

> > > > Yes they've been cleared by low man groups, or all class groups. The thing to remember is those groups also already knew the fights going in and had pretty much mastered the mechanics required to do so. It's not quite a fair comparison to use these groups either as they all used Meta builds to do so.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You missed the point, he asked about the difficulty of GW2 raids, in most games if players could complete the "hardest content in the game" (well in PvE at least) with half the players the raid was designed for, then people would think the devs had massively screwed up and hugely under-tuned the raid (or failed to spot an exploit), but in GW2 that is simply where the bar is set, very, very low.

> > >

> > > And yes they used meta classes when they 4-6 man it, but that is the point, the raids in GW2 have such a wide margin for success that you only actually need to run an optimal comp to under-man it, with 10 people you can run nearly any comp, hence the fuss some people make about "meta" is laughable and just shows the GW2 PvE playerbase for what it is.

> >

> > No, you kinda missed my point...

>

> Not really, I responded to a comment asking about the difficulty of raids and gave examples of why the raids in GW2 are a joke, you then answered with that they used meta builds to underman those raids, that is irrelevant to the point I was replying to asking about the difficulty.

>

> The point is, which you keep avoiding and going off on a tangent is that the raids are so undertuned that if people put a bit of effort in they can do "10 man" raids with 4-6 players, doesn't matter that they use meta builds, the fact is that shows what a joke GW2 raids are in terms of "difficulty", it isn't possible to do that in most games, because raids in most games have much tighter margins for success than in GW2.

>

>

>

 

I don't know what rock of an MMO you've been hiding under but there's a reason why this site has so many comics related to"game tropes" including the fabled it only happens in GW2. http://cad-comic.com/comic/developers-be-like/

 

It literally happens in every MMO, not just here and we certainly dont have a majority stake in it.

The raids themselves are far from being "so undertuned that meta's are a joke". They're appropriately tuned and player quite literally exceeded expectations by using builds that as so efficient in tandem that it makes things look worse than you give them credit for. This is the point you keep dismissing because in your mind it's clearly a developer issue and you give 0 credit to players for exceeding developer standards.

[zinkz.7045]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> It literally happens in every MMO, not just here and we certainly dont have a majority stake in it.

 

Strange I've played plenty of MMORPGs and I've never played one where the new end game raid can get completed by 40% of the players it was designed for, sure when it gets outleveled/outgeared, but when it is recently out for the gear levels it was designed for, never (other than an exploit), you are talking nonsense.

 

> The raids themselves are far from being "so undertuned that meta's are a joke". They're appropriately tuned...

 

They may be appropriately tuned to GW2's mega casual dress up and play Barbie low skilled playerbase, that doesn't alter that are ridiculously easy, go play Wildstar or something to see what raids with much higher tuning look like.

 

> This is the point you keep dismissing because in your mind it's clearly a developer issue and you give 0 credit to players for exceeding developer standards.

 

Why would I give credit to players for exceeding standards so low? If the raids were tuned to people who were actually competent, then it would be impossible to 4 or 5 man them, as you have apparently missed it GW2 is not Starcraft it does not have a soaring skill cap (especially PvE), the fact is GW2 raids are tuned in mind for probably one of the lowest skilled, most casual playerbases out there, that players who are competent can massively under-man them doesn't alter they are laughably easy as far as raids go. (even by the low standards of PvE...)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Types of "Meta":

 

The person who is experienced at the game and does not need defensive stats to survive certain content.

The person who would like to complete content as fast as possible

The person who finds joy in being effective or precise.

The person who would like to tell everyone else how to play

 

Note that only the last option here uses the meta to abuse others, while the others use the meta to enhance their experience of a game. The meta should not be enforced on people that do not want to play it. That being said, if you do not want to play the meta, do not insist that meta groups carry you, and build your own group.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > It literally happens in every MMO, not just here and we certainly dont have a majority stake in it.

>

> Strange I've played plenty of MMORPGs and I've never played one where the new end game raid can get completed by 40% of the players it was designed for, sure when it gets outleveled/outgeared, but when it is recently out for the gear levels it was designed for, never (other than an exploit), you are talking nonsense.

>

 

Let me guess, every single one of those other MMOs was trinity based and had a certain minimum amount of tanks and healers while filling up the other spots of the raid with damage dealers. Yeah, balancing around a trinity is a lot easier than around no trinity as is in GW2.

 

That said, many other MMOs introduce raids on a far higher difficulty and gradually reduce and re-tune the raids difficulty so a wider player base is able to complete it. Blizzard certainly does it in WoW via nerfs to the raid difficulty and via addition of higher itemlevel gear to easier outscale the content. On top of which, raids on other MMOs drop best in slot gear. Once you have this gear, the raids become way easier. GW2 raids do not drop better gear (and can't actually due to how the game is designed).

 

Are you noticing the differences in design and the problems GW2 faces compared to traditional MMOs?

 

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > The raids themselves are far from being "so undertuned that meta's are a joke". They're appropriately tuned...

>

> They may be appropriately tuned to GW2's mega casual dress up and play Barbie low skilled playerbase, that doesn't alter that are ridiculously easy, go play Wildstar or something to see what raids with much higher tuning look like.

 

Knowing your player base and creating content for them is not something bad. That said, Wildstar failed so heavily, I doubt taking a lot of ideas from them is the way to go.

[TexZero.7910]

Wait wait.....

 

You're seriously using Wildstar a game where you could quite easily out level and low man the content as a comparison to GW2 being too easy ?

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> Wait wait.....

>

> You're seriously using Wildstar a game where you could quite easily out level and low man the content as a comparison to GW2 being too easy ?

>

 

And I quote:

 

>Strange I've played plenty of MMORPGs and I've never played one where the new end game raid can get completed by 40% of the players it was designed for, sure when it gets outleveled/outgeared, but when it is recently out for the gear levels it was designed for, never (other than an exploit), you are talking nonsense.

 

Reading is hard for some people...

[Veprovina.4876]

Well if Anet wants to force full groups they can easily introduce a mechanic to each raid where you need 10 people to press a button at the same time, or at least on a timer. Like, boss is charging a party wipe attack, and everyone has 10 seconds to split up, get locked to a button for 10 seconds and all 10 buttons need to be active to stop the boss from a party wipe attack and make him vulnerable again.

 

It doesn't need to be a button, it can be something lore appropriate, and they already did this with Bloomhunger in the Swampland fractal so undermanning raids is entirely Anet's fault. Maybe if 10 people would be a requirement, there would be more people willing to take someone in their raid even if they weren't meta.

[TexZero.7910]

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > Wait wait.....

> >

> > You're seriously using Wildstar a game where you could quite easily out level and low man the content as a comparison to GW2 being too easy ?

> >

>

> And I quote:

>

> >Strange I've played plenty of MMORPGs and I've never played one where the new end game raid can get completed by 40% of the players it was designed for, sure when it gets outleveled/outgeared, but when it is recently out for the gear levels it was designed for, never (other than an exploit), you are talking nonsense.

>

> Reading is hard for some people...

 

What are you even arguing here ?

Are you saying that because the previously low end player base got good and overshot developer expectations that it's bad ?

 

Like really man, you're complaining that at best 2% of the raid community low mans content, meanwhile your everday joes who pug seldom see success without putting in some real effort. At this point im wholly convinced you either don't raid or like using extreme examples to further push a really bad analogy. So please post your low man raid to show the world how easy it is for you to 3 man it.

[zinkz.7045]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> Let me guess, every single one of those other MMOs was trinity based and had a certain minimum amount of tanks and healers while filling up the other spots of the raid with damage dealers. Yeah, balancing around a trinity is a lot easier than around no trinity as is in GW2.

 

Well not quite, I mean most MMORPGs are indeed based on some sort of trinity, though most I've played at least for raids have more than simply tank/heal/dps (buffer class for example), though I have played a few non-trinity MMOs also (contrary to GW2 fanbois, GW2 did not invent non-trinity gameplay), but then again not all had raids.

 

But anyway I agree that it is easier to balance trinity type instances than in games like GW2, however the level of GW2 raids is so far off (I mean an "end game" raid being done by 40-50% of the people it was designed for is just ridiculous) that really it is a non-issue, it is clear that they are tuning for GW2 playerbase, which even by the low standards of MMORPGs is not very competitive, not very skilled (PvE especially).

 

> That said, many other MMOs introduce raids on a far higher difficulty and gradually reduce and re-tune the raids difficulty so a wider player base is able to complete it.

 

I agree, but that doesn't alter that the margin for success in GW2 raids is greater than it is for most MMORPGs 'end game' raids that I have played (let alone the likes of Wildstar) and even after you get nerfs in most MMORPGs all it really means normally is the hardcore guilds can run say a 10 man raid with 1 or 2 players less, not with 4/5/6 players like in GW2, in most other MMOs that level of undermanning normally only happens when people are playing instances they have out-leveled.

 

> Knowing your player base and creating content for them is not something bad. That said, Wildstar failed so heavily, I doubt taking a lot of ideas from them is the way to go.

 

I never suggested they should take ideas from other games or make raids harder, someone asked about the difficulty of raids in GW2, I replied that they are basically pretty easy compared to a lot of MMORPGs and the other guy got his knickers in a twist, because I guess the truth hurts. GW2 is for the most part a very casual, very noncompetitive MMORPG (especially the PvE) so it makes sense not to have hugely difficult raids given the playerbase the game attracts.

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > Wait wait.....

> > >

> > > You're seriously using Wildstar a game where you could quite easily out level and low man the content as a comparison to GW2 being too easy ?

> > >

> >

> > And I quote:

> >

> > >Strange I've played plenty of MMORPGs and I've never played one where the new end game raid can get completed by 40% of the players it was designed for, sure when it gets outleveled/outgeared, but when it is recently out for the gear levels it was designed for, never (other than an exploit), you are talking nonsense.

> >

> > Reading is hard for some people...

>

> What are you even arguing here ?

 

You've had it explained more than once, if it's beyond you then that is your failing.

[Torolan.5816]

Raids are superboring for me. The few times I was dragged kicking and screaming into raids it was a borefest, a superlong champion bash with some nifty activities in between. I have no idea how Anet manages to attract people to this game mode or how you convince 10! people to do this instead of stuffing their socks when I factor in the time they give themselves between raid wings, I would have probably long thrown the towel in if I was a raider.

 

On the other hand, just like the little boy in the sixth sense I see a lot of dead people in popular events like TD potentates despite it being such a faceroll easy rollercoaster of joy it should be for meta users. I also used to see said dead people in Southside Shore where there were mobs designed to combat especially these people through delaying and damage absorption,especially in the even more braindead karka queen event. I know a few people by myself who should not be running berserker stuff, you will find them usually lying on the floor in front of whatever.

[Westenev.5289]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> Raids are superboring for me. The few times I was dragged kicking and screaming into raids it was a borefest, a superlong champion bash with some nifty activities in between. I have no idea how Anet manages to attract people to this game mode or how you convince 10! people to do this instead of stuffing their socks when I factor in the time they give themselves between raid wings, I would have probably long thrown the towel in if I was a raider.

>

> On the other hand, just like the little boy in the sixth sense I see a lot of dead people in popular events like TD potentates despite it being such a faceroll easy rollercoaster of joy it should be for meta users. I also used to see said dead people in Southside Shore where there were mobs designed to combat especially these people through delaying and damage absorption,especially in the even more braindead karka queen event. I know a few people by myself who should not be running berserker stuff, you will find them usually lying on the floor in front of whatever.

 

Dying at events is just a matter of luck IMO. Sometimes you soak no damage, sometimes you soak ALL of it. And sometimes people don't know how to res until you colapse into unconciousness. Regardless, I'd rather just use my fractal gear in a boss train than fork out for a set I'll never use outside of wvw zerging (because that's not the type of content I'm into).

[mbhalo.1547]

People find it trendy to roleplay as professional raid speedclearers.

[TexZero.7910]

> @zinkz.7045 said:

> You've had it explained more than once, if it's beyond you then that is your failing.

 

No im genuinely curious what your argument is because you keep shifting the goalpost. At first you claimed...

 

1) Oh look someone exploited (thieves)

2) Oh look at those all class runs (using meta builds)

 

Then it magically became

3) Meta doesnt matter because (Low Man)

 

So really what are you getting at here because in all cases where in the you're arguing other MMO's do it better, you're saying the meta doesnt matter when in fact it's been used in all situations to achieve what you consider an undesirable state.

 

So again what are you even arguing anymore ? Because clearly the meta is taken for it's efficiency which allows them to over-achieve. This is literally no different than any other game and to state such is fallacious at best and insincere at worst.

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @zinkz.7045 said:

> > You've had it explained more than once, if it's beyond you then that is your failing.

>

> No im genuinely curious what your argument is because you keep shifting the goalpost. At first you claimed...

>

> 1) Oh look someone exploited (thieves)

> 2) Oh look at those all class runs (using meta builds)

>

> Then it magically became

> 3) Meta doesnt matter because (Low Man)

>

> So really what are you getting at here because in all cases where in the you're arguing other MMO's do it better, you're saying the meta doesnt matter when in fact it's been used in all situations to achieve what you consider an undesirable state.

>

> So again what are you even arguing anymore ? Because clearly the meta is taken for it's efficiency which allows them to over-achieve. This is literally no different than any other game and to state such is fallacious at best and insincere at worst.

>

 

The only goalpost shifting and seeming insincerity here are in posts like the above, so I'll just assume that you are either in a try-hard PvE guild or find raids difficult in this game (or both), and for some unfathomable reason have an ego about the joke that is GW2, so can't cope with the notion that the raids in this game are pretty easy in relation to most games. (that you think raids in a super casual MMORPG for people playing Barbie are the same level as say Wildstar a game that aimed for hardcore players, is just hilarious)

 

I suggest you re-read the thread and come back when you have manged to comprehend it, because as you've been told before you have had the point explained to you more than once, if you still don't get it, then well there is no point in me trying to explain it yet again, is there.

[Vayne.8563]

> @AegisRunestone.8672 said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > Everyone isn't. Don't believe everything you read. I'm firmly convinced 80% of the game's population doesn't know what a meta build is.

>

> While... yes, I know what "meta builds" are. I feel like my power build is very meta because it works. (Note: I don't raid)

 

Meta isn't about what works though. It's not even about what's most efficient. Meta builds are designed so that pugs don't really have to communicate. When you look at top PvP teams they usually don't use the meta, nor do they have to, because they communicate. They can work stuff out. When people pug, they don't have time to communicate in hard content. They're not often on voice together. so everyone is expected to do their job and know their role. That's really the best reason for the meta to exist. You jump into a role into a group with the right components to get the job done. And when it works, it works well.

 

I make all my own builds and they all work for me and they even all work for me and my guildies, because we're on voice when we do stuff and we play together a lot. We have ways of working through content. But that doesn't mean my builds which work fine are meta. They're simply effective for my play style.

[Torolan.5816]

> @Westenev.5289 said:

> > @Torolan.5816 said:

> > Raids are superboring for me. The few times I was dragged kicking and screaming into raids it was a borefest, a superlong champion bash with some nifty activities in between. I have no idea how Anet manages to attract people to this game mode or how you convince 10! people to do this instead of stuffing their socks when I factor in the time they give themselves between raid wings, I would have probably long thrown the towel in if I was a raider.

> >

> > On the other hand, just like the little boy in the sixth sense I see a lot of dead people in popular events like TD potentates despite it being such a faceroll easy rollercoaster of joy it should be for meta users. I also used to see said dead people in Southside Shore where there were mobs designed to combat especially these people through delaying and damage absorption,especially in the even more braindead karka queen event. I know a few people by myself who should not be running berserker stuff, you will find them usually lying on the floor in front of whatever.

>

> Dying at events is just a matter of luck IMO. Sometimes you soak no damage, sometimes you soak ALL of it. And sometimes people don't know how to res until you colapse into unconciousness. Regardless, I'd rather just use my fractal gear in a boss train than fork out for a set I'll never use outside of wvw zerging (because that's not the type of content I'm into).

 

I agree that it is sometimes simply bad luck in these events. But both of the events I mentioned are designed to negate the tricks of speedclearers and damage spikers. The blue field of the potentate does not care if you can block this or that or if you found the combo of this and that, it kills you when you do not dodge out. Clearly a l2p issue regarding situational awareness many self professed heroes do not manage to show or chose not to show because it is just a stinking open world event, in which case I would really pity the poor person.

[otto.5684]

I never managed to understand the “meta” obsession in GW2. Especially considering the content is relatively easy and the difference between meta and none meta builds if trivial at best, if you know what you are doing. I played another MMO, and the idea of not being allowed for not playing a meta class is almost none exisistent.

 

Though I primarily blame Anet for this. I do not know of any other game that allows players to measure other players dps output in PvE. Ironically the majority of performance measures in PvP are not available... Anet supports elitest manitality in PvE, where it makes no sense, yet trys to avoid even basic performance measures in sPvP.