Nobody Cares Anymore.

[Trajan.4953]

I mean I guess some folks do, there are always the people that babysit a tower or a keep just to pull the (lul) tactivators. They are a breed of their own, leftovers from a bygone era when servers meant something. They are the last of the people who have any kittens to give, and God bless them!

 

Certainly for me, and I am only talking about me right now, things have gotten a little bit different lately.

 

The WvW community has shrunk a lot, and by "shrunk" I mean gotten into one petri dish. Most of the commanders know each other and if they don't they certainly know who they are facing.

 

With a few notable exceptions we, as a community, have long since abandoned our servers and become the most selfish of players. We do what we do to get fights, AJ, double-team, roll over noobs, occasionally get a good fight and chest thump when we win and blame 1000 excuses when we don't.

 

We are all fighting for ourselves and our guild because that is all we have left.

 

Back in The Day (and I can hear the *yawn* through cyberspace) we had Servers to fight FOR, a ladder that, though convoluted with Glicko, was something we could deal with. There were real rivalries back then, and I mean Server rivalries. Big Kitten going down all the time.

 

Now... well it's just watered down and kind of meh.

 

Servers like Blackgate, Jade Quarry and, to some extent, Maguuma still have a community left, but most of the rest don't anymore.

 

Yes I know there will be folks that disagree and defend their server to the death, I love you.

 

As a commander and a guild leader with an embarrassing amount of hours sunk into this game I stopped caring a while ago and everybody on my friends list feels the same. We do what we do for instant gratification these days.

 

Not a commentary or a judgement, just a rambling observation.

[Thani.8569]

Well, you are so right.

Spent the whole matchup seeing Vabbi and Drakkar Lake helping each other...

Letting their T3 flip to the other team...

Spawn camping people the whole night...

Matchups are a joke, people are griefing every way they can, guilds abuse FOTM meta.

 

Someone said me "The difference between T1/T2 and the rest is skill and that people play the points".

Never heard something more wrong than that...

Can't wait to be back in the sub-tier of matchups. People are way more fun there.

 

But my server is a joke too, new live season ? 0 people in WvW.

Server pride is gone since Fall 2014, WvW was great back there.

Today it's just an unbalanced circle jerk.

[Sovereign.1093]

wvw has no meaning but what we make up for ourselves since there are no tournaments, servers are mostly closed, other servers has very minimal population and could be fixed by serfer merging, or having a mega wvw server of three factions only.

 

In short, if wvw had an official meaning where it mattered for all to work together, like we did in the tournament days, it would be different.

 

=)

[X T D.6458]

To each his own.

 

My personal opinion is that those who don't give themselves goals and something to work on, and just float around are the ones that will stop caring and leave. There are a lot of things that I am unhappy with when playing, and sometimes I want to scream in frustration. But yet it's close to 5 years and I'm still here. I take breaks when needed, I give myself goals to work on. I don't server hop, I prefer being a part of a community.

 

[Ok I Did It.2854]

WvW is dying from the community, and it started several years ago, the server I used to be on, I thought was good, until I seen it had some of the most hostile players ive ever seen in a game, and not to mention commanders who ran the server into the ground with there petty arguments, before they jumped ship to ruin the next server,

 

Before the first season of WvW, community was saying numbers where down etc etc, season 1 came along, suddenly the maps have massive Q's granted a lot of said Q's where from PvE players trying to get the AP, again on the server I was on, instead of trying to encourage them players to actually get into the game mode, they where belittled, threatened, and just out right given some shocking abuse, which transpired that after the season the number dropped down again, some people didn't come back, others did not want to play with such hostile players, I know I didn't want to play with these players anymore, ( hence I got a new server )

 

Fast forward to any event that occurred in WvW the same WvW only players continue to this day to belittle and harass non dedicated WvW players, then at the same time complain when there is no one in WvW to play against.............

 

From the server I used to play on, is it any wonder they have no one to play with and or against, they pushed everyone out of WvW from the start, and now they only have themselves to blame,

 

Others have gotten bored of the no rewards game style, dedicated WvW players may not want to play PvE but they do still want rewarded for there time, be it to invest to weapons/armor etc etc, but its just not there, Anet got onto the right track with the new reward system, then just disappeared, its like they go, we'll do this, and that will shut them up for a year, there is absolutely no incentive to actually fight real players, this is why WvW is still sprint wars to the nearest keep/tower or WP out, I personally don't want to run around a map for 3 hours CHASING and enemy who will never engage us in a battle, unless they can do it from the wall that has 10 AC's built on it.

 

Anet seriously need to rewamp the system so that it incentives real fights and not who can run faster to safety, if they cannot do this, they would be far better closing down WvW and putting that resource/development time into something else, that they can make work.

 

The community needs to be more open in trying to get non WvW players into the game mode, instead of belittling them into leaving.

 

 

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

Did anyone read this to themselves in Gil Scott-Heron's voice?

[Burnfall.9573]

It's not only your observation, it's many of us as well: especially to those who finally walked away. It all comes down to this: we as customers have high expectations for the game and want our voice to be heard when they aren't met. We want to be understood when we raise important matters which hinders out happiness and our worth. We want our feeling to be cared for when we are frustrated when having to deal with the same problems over and over again. We want to be appreciated for putting our time and effort in addressing what matters to us. We don't want our time and effort to be wasted, taken for granted and misuse.

 

The reason why we stop caring is when we realized, we were not in your best interest.

 

-Burnfall-

[mulzi.8273]

I look at it this way: the player base is finally showing the same level of enthusiasm and support in WvW as Anet. Read into that any way you want to, but this is the underlying theme nowadays.

[RodOfDeath.5247]

Things must be bad, we have try hard upper tier guilds showing up in T4 trying to recruit because it appears they are losing members lol

[Junkpile.7439]

New game mode. 2 hour matches, statistics and good rewards.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @Junkpile.7439 said:

> New game mode. 2 hour matches, statistics and good rewards.

 

That takes out all the importance of WvW and alot of people will drop it.

 

(edit) well.. WvW isnt important anyways atm.. -_- just a reward track ktrain....

 

 

[Roadbull.3457]

My experience is that community erosion is an issue caused by a few specific things.

 

1. Linkings provide no incentive to care. Large servers have no issue here but any server with a link is divided always. Everyone wants their server, their community, their TS. The result is 3 teamspeaks with 5 people instead of 1 TS with 15. Pugs log in, see tags, don't know which TS or get pulled to 2-3 different ones and a new one every other month and then say Fark it. No TS = limited community. Linkings are nice, and server pride is nice, but right now only larger servers who already had a huge community self sustain, all the rest are slowly eroding as each guest/host looks out for #1 and doesn't bother to get too attached in the long run. That and soon as you find a good commander who is fun there's a good chance he'll be gone next link and you'll be back to square one. Now, you'll say "transfer to a better community," this leads to point 2.

 

2. No mobility. Too many servers are locked down or cost too much to move! Pay us $$$ or all your gold in transfer costs. All servers are marked as being huge even when they tumble weed all NA. This leads to a feeling of "this sucks, so I'll take a break.". A lot of those people who take that break never return or just become even more jaded when they return to find the situation unchanged or worse.

 

3. Combat currently nullifies choice and is not engaging. Condition meta and huge burst makes combat quick and uninteresting. Fights don't last and lack tension. Most are roll or get rolled. Melee is heavily punished and the smallest mistake means death. A newbie will constantly die with no idea why or how to compensate and thanks to point 1 can't find people to teach him outside of map chat trolls. This just makes the game dull as everyone migrates to what is "safe" which is mass range AOE spam. Even in my own guild I'm seeing less and less interest in melee combat due to how punishing it is.

 

4. Objective fighting is boring. ACs do too much damage, are too easy to spam, and defenders get buffs, tactivators, and can cheese disablers again and again. Huge groups just nuke defenders and ACs in minutes, but for everyone else you can just feel the collective groan when defenders spam siege all over a keep and make it an absolute CHORE to take with anything less than a map queue. We all want our crap t3, but what is the point of objectives if they never flip? Many forget, buff defense for the little guy and you also buff it for the big guy. The little guy can now defend,, but now he's on permanent defense because his group lacks the numbers to breach the big guy. This results in everybody picking on 3rd because it is often the only side that people make progress on. We are so tired of the chore that we try to make it as easy as possible. Objectives are meant to rise and fall and be fought over. Siege is meant to be a supplement not a replacement for an army, and stale objective play leads to wandering a map looking for "fights."

 

After 5 years we all are doing the same old things. We focus on our fun, ignore the fun of our opponents and take joy in their misery only to be confused why they don't show up to play after.

 

WvW can be good again, but this isn't only on ANet.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > @Junkpile.7439 said:

> > New game mode. 2 hour matches, statistics and good rewards.

>

> That takes out all the importance of WvW and alot of people will drop it.

>

> (edit) well.. WvW isnt important anyways atm.. -_- just a reward track ktrain....

>

>

 

Don't tell me you took Junkpile seriously. D:

 

Besides, people drop it due to bad gameplay first (balance being the biggest variable there, followed by lag or queues).

[Junkpile.7439]

Yes a am trolling. It's just stupid idea that winning would mean something in PvP game mode. Always hated those PvP games where you actually saw who was best player. :D

[RodOfDeath.5247]

> @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

> > @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > > @Junkpile.7439 said:

> > > New game mode. 2 hour matches, statistics and good rewards.

> >

> > That takes out all the importance of WvW and alot of people will drop it.

> >

> > (edit) well.. WvW isnt important anyways atm.. -_- just a reward track ktrain....

> >

> >

>

> Don't tell me you took Junkpile seriously. D:

>

> Besides, people drop it due to bad gameplay first (balance being the biggest variable there, followed by lag or queues).

 

This, class balance is pretty awful with a lackadaisical anet. Coupled with lag it's driving players off as there is much better game experiences out there than gw2. See anets quarterly report, statistics never lie.

 

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @Junkpile.7439 said:

> Yes a am trolling. It's just stupid idea that winning would mean something in PvP game mode. Always hated those PvP games where you actually saw who was best player. :D

 

This isn't much of a competitive game mode due to basic issues of persistence and 3 way fights. There will never be a "best player" in large scale games regardless. I too wish it was based off the average player play time and not 24/7, and I hope ANET never bans Junkpile from the forums...because at least he/she is the "best forum player."

[zinkz.7045]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > @Junkpile.7439 said:

> > New game mode. 2 hour matches, statistics and good rewards.

>

> That takes out all the importance of WvW and alot of people will drop it.

>

> (edit) well.. WvW isnt important anyways atm.. -_- just a reward track ktrain....

>

>

 

WvW never had importance, because it has always been competitively a total joke (hence why we had the "nightcapping" megathread right back at the start of the game), that some people were too slow to realize that until tournaments rather hammered reality home for them (no doubt why many left after tournies) or a few deliberately choose to play in some sort of state of suspension of disbelief, doesn't alter the reality.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

> @"Ok I Did It.2854" said:

>Before the first season of WvW, community was saying numbers where down etc etc, season 1 came along, suddenly the maps have massive Q's granted a lot of said Q's where from PvE players trying to get the AP, again on the server I was on, instead of trying to encourage them players to actually get into the game mode, they where belittled, threatened, and just out right given some shocking abuse, which transpired that after the season the number dropped down again, some people didn't come back, others did not want to play with such hostile players

 

 

Replace Seasons with linkings, PVE players with seasoned wvw players and you just described the lack of care for a large portion of the player base.

 

That's how it goes when the majority says there aren't enough people, use their overwhelming voting blocks to force compression of 24 servers into 12, continue to assume the compressed servers don't know what they're doing simply because they're smaller, blame those people for everything that goes wrong and don't want to share credit when stuff goes right, resist any suggestions to changes to linkings because it might be bad for them and complain they're full while assuring everyone they are in fact empty because they can't or purposefully choose not to maintain a foothold in a certain tier.

 

Meanwhile this silent large portion is still stuck bouncing around every 2 months experiencing perhaps "fights" but no server to fight for. Care? Most probably dont anymore, and if they're anything like me, they blame that lack of care not on those that pushed the first button putting it into action, but on those that have continued to justify the system because changes might ruin the way they play...

[ArchonWing.9480]

It's just a sign of the times, an old game that could have been great, but resigned itself to mediocrity for some extra gem sales.

 

The turning point came with HoT; there was just no turning back after that. For the rest of the game, it was able to recover a bit, but WvW was already too marginal. And again, props to the WvW team for trying to do something with the limited resources they had, but the overall direction of the game led to too many things against it.

 

The disease was the one size fits all balancing, and maybe it wasn't right for the balance team for pve to be forced to take into consideration other game modes too. I said it'd screw over the game eventually, and now it's practically terminal.

 

 

There were a lot of people that were really dedicated to this game mode in spite of the lack of content. But yet you choose the loudest PvE'rs that whine about no content every month, that literally say they don't care if every game mode besides theirs dies besides theirs as long as you keep feeding them, and don't even care about even your well being as evidenced by the pathetic and large thread of complaints where people were complaining about content being late when your very place of work was being battered by a storm and power was cut out. And yet all they cared about is why their content was delayed.

 

Now both are going to leave anyways. One was preventable.

 

I don't know. Maybe that wasn't the best choice. But in the end, just gotta do what you gotta do. Goodwill doesn't put food on the table I know. But still.

[Sylvyn.4750]

> @mulzi.8273 said:

> I look at it this way: the player base is finally showing the same level of enthusiasm and support in WvW as Anet. Read into that any way you want to, but this is the underlying theme nowadays.

 

Question is, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[RodOfDeath.5247]

> @ArchonWing.9480 said:

> It's just a sign of the times, an old game that could have been great, but resigned itself to mediocrity for some extra gem sales.

>

> The turning point came with HoT; there was just no turning back after that. For the rest of the game, it was able to recover a bit, but WvW was already too marginal. And again, props to the WvW team for trying to do something with the limited resources they had, but the overall direction of the game led to too many things against it.

>

> The disease was the one size fits all balancing, and maybe it wasn't right for the balance team for pve to be forced to take into consideration other game modes too. I said it'd screw over the game eventually, and now it's practically terminal.

>

>

> There were a lot of people that were really dedicated to this game mode in spite of the lack of content. But yet you choose the loudest PvE'rs that whine about no content every month, that literally say they don't care if every game mode besides theirs dies besides theirs as long as you keep feeding them, and don't even care about even your well being as evidenced by the pathetic and large thread of complaints where people were complaining about content being late when your very place of work was being battered by a storm and power was cut out. And yet all they cared about is why their content was delayed.

>

> Now both are going to leave anyways. One was preventable.

>

> I don't know. Maybe that wasn't the best choice. But in the end, just gotta do what you gotta do. Goodwill doesn't put food on the table I know. But still.

 

And that's the point blank truth. PVERS always want more more more more more. WvWers hung in there for years with our small updates, some are still showing up luckily. I wish anet would realize as soon as the next big thing comes out, those same pvers will leave them high and dry and start grinding the next mmo. You can't ride this living story and gem fiasco for long. Go the lootbox route all you want, it's not sustainable.

 

It's like the devs are nonexistent now. I don't sense any community, even in the pve world. There's literally no connection between players and the company. It just feels weak IMO and fading away.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @Trajan.4953 said:

> I mean I guess some folks do, there are always the people that babysit a tower or a keep just to pull the (lul) tactivators. They are a breed of their own, leftovers from a bygone era when servers meant something. They are the last of the people who have any kittens to give, and God bless them!

>

> Certainly for me, and I am only talking about me right now, things have gotten a little bit different lately.

>

> The WvW community has shrunk a lot, and by "shrunk" I mean gotten into one petri dish. Most of the commanders know each other and if they don't they certainly know who they are facing.

>

> With a few notable exceptions we, as a community, have long since abandoned our servers and become the most selfish of players. We do what we do to get fights, AJ, double-team, roll over noobs, occasionally get a good fight and chest thump when we win and blame 1000 excuses when we don't.

>

> We are all fighting for ourselves and our guild because that is all we have left.

>

> Back in The Day (and I can hear the *yawn* through cyberspace) we had Servers to fight FOR, a ladder that, though convoluted with Glicko, was something we could deal with. There were real rivalries back then, and I mean Server rivalries. Big Kitten going down all the time.

>

> Now... well it's just watered down and kind of meh.

>

> Servers like Blackgate, Jade Quarry and, to some extent, Maguuma still have a community left, but most of the rest don't anymore.

>

> Yes I know there will be folks that disagree and defend their server to the death, I love you.

>

> As a commander and a guild leader with an embarrassing amount of hours sunk into this game I stopped caring a while ago and everybody on my friends list feels the same. We do what we do for instant gratification these days.

>

> Not a commentary or a judgement, just a rambling observation.

 

It's what happens when a gamemode doesn't age gracefully, or productively. ANet is just not one of those companies that can get kicked down. Then conquer adversity. They rather throw in the towel, when the going gets rough.

 

So meh w/e, nothing we can say or do. To make ANet start investing and caring about WvW. ANet has made up it's mind and that's that. You even love it for what it is. Or you just do like the many many ex players have done. That's pretty much it.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @RodOfDeath.5247 said:

>

>

>Go the lootbox route all you want, it's not sustainable.

I don't know ESO gots players dropping multiples of thousands of USDs each crown crate season. I mean just think about that for a moment. Each of these people dropped more money every 4 months. Then most of us have put towards our PCs. I don't know, but the RNG in my eyes seems like a pretty sustainable source of income for gaming companies. (They only need to hook 5 to 10 players with more money than they can dream of spending. Because each on of these types of players are worth sacrificing 100 of us each.)

>

> It's like the devs are nonexistent now. I don't sense any community, even in the pve world. There's literally no connection between players and the company. It just feels weak IMO and fading away.

 

Yeah it feels the same way to me. I really does feel like the developers and producer team. Are just milking this game, and it's playerbase for everything they have. I guess business is business. And you don't have to fall asleep naturally at night. More so when you can spend your millions on sleep and mood enhancers.

 

I do feel sorry for the devs. Because now their names are going to be in the mud. For seeing this game go from hero to zero under their watch.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @Roadbull.3457 said:

> 4. Objective fighting is boring. ACs do too much damage, are too easy to spam, and defenders get buffs, tactivators, and can cheese disablers again and again. Huge groups just nuke defenders and ACs in minutes, but for everyone else you can just feel the collective groan when defenders spam siege all over a keep and make it an absolute CHORE to take with anything less than a map queue. We all want our crap t3, but what is the point of objectives if they never flip? Many forget, buff defense for the little guy and you also buff it for the big guy. The little guy can now defend,, but now he's on permanent defense because his group lacks the numbers to breach the big guy. This results in everybody picking on 3rd because it is often the only side that people make progress on. We are so tired of the chore that we try to make it as easy as possible. Objectives are meant to rise and fall and be fought over. Siege is meant to be a supplement not a replacement for an army, and stale objective play leads to wandering a map looking for "fights."

 

Oh its even worse than that. Not only is there heavy objective creep, Anet in their glorious wisdom decided to add tier based objective ppt and *completely kitten over their new skirmish system* by exponential PPT gains for the bigger/stronger servers and punching the smaller/weaker servers in the stomach for having the **audacity** to not be able to flip objectives.

 

It was great for a few sweet months when the skirmish system had just been added and before they broke it.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Well, they did everything they could to disengage WvW from the rest of the game.

They removed the World bonuses you'd get from WvW, so a lot of people that helped WvW for those, left.

They removed WvW from exploration, so people that would get introduced to WvW for that, gone.

They allowed bandwagoning to be a thing, never addressed it in a meaningful way.

There's issues that plague the game mode since 2012, that never were addressed (night capping, Outnumbered, obstructed view from walls, bandwagoning, the zerg/blob culture).

 

People don't defend towers and keeps because it's nearly impossible. You either have the Siege there to defend it, and well positioned in a way that you nearly have to glitch your screen to aim the damn thing, or the attackers can more easily hit you than you can hit them.

While common sense would tell you that those attacking a fortress need to have the overwhelming numbers, in WvW the defenders need the numbers as well. And arguably invest more on siege equipment than the attacker...

I mean a couple of catapults and shield generators can easily down a keep unless inside it there's like 6+ arrow carts.