More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> you're strategy here is flawed ... You're looking for a reason that justifies the current situation for how Legendary gear is obtained and when you can't find one or when you think you have a bunch of inconsistencies, you think that's an error that must be fixed.

 

 

It's not flawed, but a request.

The fact that they will consider giving all pve players the possibility to have their armor or not is up to us.

 

However it's not looking for a reason, but stating a fact.

Currencly not all game modes allow players to get legendary armors.

[Obtena.7952]

That's just a twist on what defines game mode and you know it. Defining OW as a separate game mode not related to raids to justify a leg armor path is a thinly veiled ruse ... but GL with that.

 

Again, it's a CONSIDERED decision on Anet's part .. let's pretend you're right and OW is separate from PVE ... I guess you think how game mode is defined is a major contribution to their considered decision to NOT have a OW path? Interesting

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> That's just a twist on what defines game mode and you know it. Defining OW as a game mode a separate from PVE to justify a leg armor path is a thinly veiled ruse ... but GL with that.

 

You should face the reality and compare what is needed to raid and what to do wvw and pvp.

And how many pve players raid ( or simply can allow themselves, because of time and playing hours, to get currencies from raid ).

 

If you have 30 min or even 1h per day, you won't be ever able to get your Armor by playing pve.

You are simply ignoring the differences between game modes, and the fact that the larger part of the community is composed by casual players.

[Obtena.7952]

Again, those comparisons aren't relevant; they will always be unequivalent in someone's eyes. The simple fact that they are all fundamentally different makes those comparisons nonsensical. Anet can ignore differences in game modes because there isn't any sensible way to equate them. They aren't ignoring casual players ... I'm casual ... I could get legendary armor if I wanted to.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Again, those comparisons aren't relevant; they will always be unequivalent in someone's eyes. The simple fact that they are all fundamentally different makes those comparisons nonsensical. Anet can ignore differences in game modes because there isn't any sensible way to equate them. They aren't ignoring casual players ... I'm casual ... I could get legendary armor if I wanted to.

 

Let's consider a casual player which can play 1h per day during the week and doesn't like nor WvW and SPvP, ok?

How could you, casual player, achieve through pve tasks your legendary armor?

 

You are saying that as casual you could, but what I would like to underline is that you can't by playing PvE ( unless you raid ).

We do agree that casuals can achieve their armor if they dedicate part of their time to WvW or SPvP ( SPvP is way better imho, if you compare the time spent ).

[Obtena.7952]

I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

 

and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

>

> and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

 

It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

[Obtena.7952]

The system does not restrict you from doing raids ... ever; that's YOUR choice. it also doesn't prevent someone that wants leg. armor to do any of the three paths available to get it to which EVERY player has access to. Don't confuse an actual game barrier to a choice you have made preventing you from getting something.

 

 

[Cerioth.7062]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> >

> > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

>

> It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

 

I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > Your ideas are terrible for the game as far as I am concerned. You don't get people attached to the game with everything being accessible.

> >

> > Gonna disagree with this, as everything being able to be obtained gets people to set getting those things as long term goals, if there is a part of the path they feel is simply beyond their reach, they will abandon the long term goals, and MMO's unlike single player games, need those long term goals, otherwise there is no reason to keep playing.. get exotic.. and then do.. what exactly?.

> >

> > You are left with the fate of Farming for the sake of it, that's a great way to have people just burn out and move on.

> >

> > So players need some kind of long term goal.. something to shoot for, and Legendary items provided just that kind of goal.

> >

> > Take that away..and **that will kill the game**..

>

> The game already has long term rewards besides raid lengendary armor. They are called armor collection and other weapons collection and it won’t kill the game.

>

> You make it sound like casuals have already finished every other easibly achievable collection and suddenly all other collection hav become worthless because of raid tier armor. It feels like such a nonsensical argument to make imo.

 

You really think collections like "Oh collect every Dungeon Armor piece and get this box of pointless stuff" is a long term goal? That's laughable. The fact that you think such is the case, shows how off the mark you really are.

 

Those are minor distractions at best, something to do on the side.

 

The only long term goals in this game are, **Personal Story, Living Story, Legendary Items**.

 

Everything else is just Something players do to take a break from the few long term goals this game provides.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> > >

> > > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

> >

> > It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> > If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

>

> I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

> Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

 

Less than playing OW pve or Fractals.

Is it enough?

And what about the other currencies?

Obviously once you have the tokens or ascended armor you are done ;)

 

Or probably you just wanted to underline how fast it is to unlock legendary armors through PvE if you have a group to play with ( and you are not a casual ) even for 3/4h per week?

[Obtena.7952]

The amount of time it takes is irrelevant. What most of these discussions boil down to is the unreasonable idea that you should be able to get loot doing what you want vs. choosing the ways available to you. That idea is not made more real or reasonable by how you define game mode, yourself as a player or your concept of balance or fairness. You're going to have a REALLY hard life in MMO's if you stick with that philosophy.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> > >

> > > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

> >

> > It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> > If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

>

> I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

> Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

 

This here is a great point and question.

 

But see, your question stems from the view of a meta junkie that is only thinking of time and efficiency to the end goal.

 

See, a Casual player just needs a plausible path that they can do, the time is not as important as it being within reach. In this venture WvW Legendary Armor is totally doable to the Casual WvW player and while it will take them many times longer then a seriously invested WvW player, but it is still well within their reach to get it simply by playing WvW at their casual pace in a manner they enjoy.

 

The same is not to be said for the PvE Legendary Armor.

 

The Irony that the PvP Legendary Armor is more casual friendly then the PvE version is not lost on me.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> The amount of time it takes is irrelevant. What most of these discussions boil down to is the unreasonable idea that you should be able to get loot doing what you want vs. choosing the ways available to you. That idea is not made more real or reasonable by how you define game mode, yourself as a player or your concept of balance or fairness. You're going to have a REALLY hard life in MMO's if you stick with that philosophy.

 

GW2 is different from the others mmo, that's why many of us are here.

You can drop and resume whenever you want.

 

Talking about having an opportunity per game mode, it is still not clear how could this harm other players ( or even only you ).

Players will be simply have alternatives, which are always good, depends the way they want to play.

 

And let's remember that you will always need around 330g in order to craft every single piece.

https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-80281

 

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> > > >

> > > > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

> > >

> > > It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> > > If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

> >

> > I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

> > Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

>

> This here is a great point and question.

>

> But see, your question stems from the view of a meta junkie that is only thinking of time and efficiency to the end goal.

>

> See, a Casual player just needs a plausible path that they can do, the time is not as important as it being within reach. In this venture WvW Legendary Armor is totally doable to the Casual WvW player and while it will take them many times longer then a seriously invested WvW player, but it is still well within their reach to get it simply by playing WvW at their casual pace in a manner they enjoy.

>

> The same is not to be said for the PvE Legendary Armor.

>

> The Irony that the PvP Legendary Armor is more casual friendly then the PvE version is not lost on me.

 

This

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> > > > >

> > > > > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

> > > >

> > > > It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> > > > If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

> > >

> > > I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

> > > Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

> >

> > This here is a great point and question.

> >

> > But see, your question stems from the view of a meta junkie that is only thinking of time and efficiency to the end goal.

> >

> > See, a Casual player just needs a plausible path that they can do, the time is not as important as it being within reach. In this venture WvW Legendary Armor is totally doable to the Casual WvW player and while it will take them many times longer then a seriously invested WvW player, but it is still well within their reach to get it simply by playing WvW at their casual pace in a manner they enjoy.

> >

> > The same is not to be said for the PvE Legendary Armor.

> >

> > The Irony that the PvP Legendary Armor is more casual friendly then the PvE version is not lost on me.

>

> This

 

I will 'bite' on This ...

 

That's where I disagree ... the casual player doesn't need a path that caters to them because they are casual. If the time isn't important, than the thing that makes a casual player different from a hardcore one evaporates. I mean, why does everyone assume that casual players are just RPing in LA all the time? Casual players DO have access to and DO participate in content that hardcore player do as well. Perpetuating some myth that the casual player can't do things because of time is 1) untrue and 2) not a reason to make more paths for legendary gear. If anything, a path in OW for casual players would be tremendously laborious, likely much moreso than the three we already have ... probably to the point where a casual player wouldn't get the armor anyways.

 

You see, the reason the 'casual' distinction doesn't work is that Anet doesn't make that distinction. If Anet makes a path in OW for casuals, that path is open to everyone ... and if that's the easiest path, that's the path MOST people are going to take; soo why would they make a 'easy path for casual players? I mean, it's pretty unreasonable to think that if Anet would make a new path, it would accommodate the amount of time a casual player can spend in the game in the first place, especially considering this distinction to them isn't real. I can't think of ANY content in this game that does that now, what would compel Anet to do it for Leg. armor?

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You see, the reason the 'casual' distinction doesn't work is that Anet doesn't make that distinction. If Anet makes a path in OW for casuals, that path is open to everyone ... and if that's the easiest path, that's the path MOST people are going to take; soo why would they make a 'easy path for casual players? I mean, it's pretty unreasonable to think that if Anet would make a new path, it would accommodate the amount of time a casual player can spend in the game in the first place, especially considering this distinction to them isn't real. I can't think of ANY content in this game that does that now, what would compel Anet to do it for Leg. armor?

 

What I don't understand is how adding a OW ( and fractal ) way in order to get legendary armor would do more damage than afkers in WvW and SPvP, which just spam games or tag without any effort.

 

It won't change anything, because you will always need golds, and remember also that many players won't have the possibility to get the amount needed even for a piece of armor.

[Obtena.7952]

So because you think there is an abusive/leeching way to get legendary armor in WVW/PVP with no effort, you think there should be and OW path? persumably because you want to get legendary armor with no effort in your preferred game mode as well? Um ... I can't being to describe what I think about that. It's not worth the warning. I will just leave you to ponder why that's a terrible way to think about why you deserve a OW path.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> So because you think there is an abusive/leeching way to get legendary armor in WVW/PVP with no effort, you think there should be and OW path? persumably because you want to get legendary armor with no effort in your preferred game mode as well? Um ... I can't being to describe what I think about that. It's not worth the warning. I will just leave you to ponder why that's a terrible way to think about why you deserve a OW path.

 

You didn't asnwer to my question.

I stated a fact, and now you are being upset because you don't accept that many players do this because it's easier.

 

Empty words.

[Obtena.7952]

You didn't ask a question ... so ? Stating the fact that you don't get why you can't get what you want because you know people can leech gear in WVW/PVP is the words that are empty, not mine. I mean ... maybe you think it's reasonable to reduce the game to it's lowest common denominator, simply because you know some people leech, but I'm pretty sure that's about the worst reason anyone can present as a compelling reason to get what they want. /shrug

 

Honestly, if you are presenting that argument, then you clearly don't have what's in the best interests of this game at heart. Being able to leech your way into anything is abhorrent behaviour and anyone that advocates game changes to perpetuate that behaviour doesn't deserve to be taken very seriously in the first place.

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Shirlias.8104" Would you be ok if PvE OW leggy armor shared the Orr temple (or any other core skin)? I mean, if its skin wasnt unique, but an already existing skin?

 

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You didn't ask a question ... so ?

 

Actually i did.

 

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> What I don't understand is how adding a OW ( and fractal ) way in order to get legendary armor would do more damage than afkers in WvW and SPvP, which just spam games or tag without any effort.

 

I don't understand, could you please explain your point about?

It was indirect but still was a question for you.

 

I also don't get why should we ignore that both competitive game modes are full of afkers which only farm for currencies.

 

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> @"Shirlias.8104" Would you be ok if PvE OW leggy armor shared the Orr temple (or any other core skin)? I mean, if its skin wasnt unique, but an already existing skin?

>

 

Obviously.

I ask for them only as QoL items.

 

Skins should be locked behind different and specific challenges ( raids, fractals, openworld, achievements, dungeons, Spvp, wvw, etc ).

[Linken.6345]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > I don't see a problem with that at all. That's a limitation imposed by the player ...

> > > >

> > > > and yes ... if a casual player wants armor, they can choose the BEST path for them to get it of the three available. I mean, this is a nonsensical discussion ... you are saying people don't have choice for a path to get gear they want because they restrict themselves to doing content where they could never get that gear ... NO WAY!!!!. Read that a few times and let it sink in.

> > >

> > > It's not imposed by the player, but by the system ( I am sorry, i shouldn't dare to play the game mode i like! )

> > > If the player like to play WvW and another like to play PvE, 1h per day, why should one be allowed to get his armor by playing the game mode he wants?

> >

> > I encourage you to go do math and then tell me how long it would take from a casual WvW newbie to obtain his legendary armor through WvW by plaing 1h a week... or even 1h a day. Go on. Having that little playtime wont get you anywhere close to maximum skirmish ticket cap per week, which is extremely slow and grindy route to a legendary armor, even more so than raiding.

> > Lets say Anet would make legendary armor to be obtainable through open world. How are these 1h/day people or 1h/week people even going to make it to the required meta events and such to complete their gear? Hmm?

>

> This here is a great point and question.

>

> But see, your question stems from the view of a meta junkie that is only thinking of time and efficiency to the end goal.

>

> See, a Casual player just needs a plausible path that they can do, the time is not as important as it being within reach. In this venture WvW Legendary Armor is totally doable to the Casual WvW player and while it will take them many times longer then a seriously invested WvW player, but it is still well within their reach to get it simply by playing WvW at their casual pace in a manner they enjoy.

>

> The same is not to be said for the PvE Legendary Armor.

>

> The Irony that the PvP Legendary Armor is more casual friendly then the PvE version is not lost on me.

 

Well the pve player can just do the wvw one then capturing camps, monuments, killing dollyaks or sentries is totaly doable for a pve player.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

>

> I don't understand, could you please explain your point about?

> It was indirect but still was a question for you.

>

> I also don't get why should we ignore that both competitive game modes are full of afkers which only farm for currencies.

>

 

No we shouldn't ignore it ... that's not what we are talking about here though are we ... you're simply using AFK leeching as a 'good' reason to get OW legendary path ... so in your mind abusing the game is a good reason for you to get gear how you are willing to get it? You just showed your hand and it's a bluff ... Someone leeching their way into a nice piece of kit isn't a good reason for giving more options to get that gear for others. If you care so little for the game and think abusing the game is a reason for you to get gear, you should simply join those people and AFK leech your way to the gear you want ... there is YOUR path.

 

People that cheat are not to be held up as examples to why other people unwilling to do content for gear they want should be obliged in their requests. The object here isn't to appeal to the lowest common denominator for making it easier for everyone to get the best loot in the game. :confounded:

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > you're strategy here is flawed ... You're looking for a reason that justifies the current situation for how Legendary gear is obtained and when you can't find one or when you think you have a bunch of inconsistencies, you think that's an error that must be fixed.

>

>

> It's not flawed, but a request.

> The fact that they will consider giving all pve players the possibility to have their armor or not is up to us.

 

Consider? Do you actually believe they have not *considered* it?