Is there a reason for the increasing escalation of mechanics and difficulty of fractals?

[Feanor.2358]

> @Sooloo.1364 said:

> Being in a guild of more mature folks im finding it increasingly difficult to entice anyone to even do them anymore.

> I remember it started with Swampland and even then people found it way too hard, some pugs still do. Then Chaos, which is great but some find way too hard.

> But these latest additions are impossible for a lot of people, T4 Observatory and this new Oasis Fractal. Too fast, too much AOE, too much everything.

> Fractals used to be a fun distraction when people were bored, I could always rally a group. Nobody wants to do these though, it's just too much work.

> And pls dont even suggest doing them at lower tiers, if you can't handle T4 then you shouldn't even be in there... and pugs, I dont even wanna try that again.

> Im curious though, if my guild isnt doing them regularly anymore because of this, how many others feel the same?

 

You're vastly overestimating the difficulty. Yeah, every new instance gives you some new challenge and you fail a few times. Then you figure out how to beat it and it becomes more or less routine.

 

Just yesterday I played Oasis with guildies in a completely random group composition. We failed a few times on the last fight, but all it took to beat it was switching just one character from damage dealer to support. I'm certain after a some time passes and people play it some number of times more, it will become pretty easy, probably even easier than Swampland.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @Raguel.9402 said:

> If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

>

> It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

That's the theory. At least practice (i.e. threads like this one) constantly reminds us why the concept of easymodes actually does not work.

[Vella the knight.6072]

its the player base accepting their abusive overlords basically. Fractals has and always been a mess since day one.

it was decently stable before the recent patch.

 

but now people are finding less and less reason to do it again. I mean taking away fotm 40 farm was stupid more so when you put in Heavy relic requirement system in place. Ben during the ama basically said core fractals are find just do dailies.

YA I do dailies ON Four accounts after i finish them I go off to farm Fotm 40 cause I NEED more relics all the time Now i have overabundance of Pages and no relics.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Vella the knight.6072" said:

> its the player base accepting their abusive overlords basically. Fractals has and always been a mess since day one.

> it was decently stable before the recent patch.

>

> but now people are finding less and less reason to do it again. I mean taking away fotm 40 farm was stupid more so when you put in Heavy relic requirement system in place. Ben during the ama basically said core fractals are find just do dailies.

> YA I do dailies ON Four accounts after i finish them I go off to farm Fotm 40 cause I NEED more relics all the time Now i have overabundance of Pages and no relics.

 

Wth did I just read? It is in no way needed to play on 4 accounts, lol. That was your choice, nothing else. It sounds that your choice isn't healthy at all. ^^

And the sink is a longterm one not a cheap achievement. Actually, it kinda holds veteran fractal players in the game because it is some type of prestige to acquire those augmentations.

[zealex.9410]

> @Faaris.8013 said:

> The new fractal is not overly hard, it's just long. We did it without much trouble on our first attempt, at T4. But after today, as it was daily again, I decided to skip it from now on. Even if you kill the stuff fast, you still have to reach places, wait for spawns and scenes, jump on roofs etc. The last boss fight also takes its time-toll because you have to work through all priests one by one. A normal T4 run takes 30 minutes on average, I really don't see how a normal group can do this new fractal in less than 20 minutes. It's just too much hassle in my book.

>

> I have to add that I love the theme and the setting. Praise King Joko!

 

U can take a class that has access to stealth and skill some parts.

[Verthurnax.2784]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> I mean fractals has 4 tiers, with tier 4 bring the hardest of the content. You can always go down in tier if it's too challenging, and there's nothing wrong with that =)

 

nothing wrong in not finding pugs to play the content when most will decide is not worth the time anymore ? you are right :)

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Fractals is the gateway to raiding in my opinion. The later are punishing but no where as near to most raid bosses. So if lv 100 cm is easy for you it's time for you to take the next step, RAIDS.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> Fractals is the gateway to raiding in my opinion. The later are punishing but no where as near to most raid bosses. So if lv 100 cm is easy for you it's time for you to take the next step, RAIDS.

 

100 cm is harder than more than half the Raid bosses

[ReaverKane.7598]

First of all... Hi!

I've been playing fractals since they were released with a few big hiatuses in between.

 

When they were released, fractals varied from strictly too easy to hell in a handbasket at top tiers, not aided by the lack of ways to get ascended items (only trinkets and backs at the start).

The Fractal revamp that came with HoT and the re-revamp shortly after improved the scales incredibly.

Tier 1 is just faceroll easy. T2 isn't much better in that.

T3 is the proper training level, and T4+ CM is where people should be to have a proper challenge.

 

There's no shame in doing T3 only. For a while i did that daily, because i was playing at odd hours, and didn't like my chances with Pugs, so i did the easy ones.

Now i do T4 daily, and while sometimes you'll land with people who have no idea of what they're doing. Most of the times you play with competent players.

My first attempt of the Twilight Oasis was at T4, and while we took like 1 hour to nail the mechanics, it wasn't that bad.

In fact, the new Mai Trin, took me as long to finish, to the point i was forced to leave that party and do it again with a different one (which succeeded first try).

Still haven't done the Molten Boss at T4, did it at a lower tier because it was recommended (haven't done fractals these last couple days because reasons) and it was fun as hell, relieving the old days of the Flame and Frost.

 

All this to say that, T4 is supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be challenging, that's why it has the best rewards (in theory, if not in practice - fractal rewards are kinda crappy - sure the money from selling junk from encryptions is nice, but the rest?). If you can't do T4, practice in T3 and then do the transition, that's why there are levels of difficulty.

 

I see this issue like i see some kid's career choices, like just because you have good grades you shouldn't feel pressured to going medicine or law, just because you have 150 AR, you shouldn't feel pressured to play T4.

 

Also, like someone said, it helps to have a proper party... Get a druid, and a support chrono, the boons from those two classes will make runs smooth and fast. Better yet, play with one of those yourself. That's what i did, i transitioned from play DH DPS to now playing Chrono, while my brother transitioned from Warrior to Druid. Since we did that, with the exception of rare cases when too many of the party have no idea what they're doing, we do T4 dailies in ~30m in average (unless there's Shattered observatory, that fractal is just too long with too many pauses and breaks).

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

> > >

> > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

> >

> > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :)

>

> Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise?

 

He can't. Because he's lying.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

> > > >

> > > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

> > >

> > > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :)

> >

> > Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise?

>

> He can't. Because he's lying.

 

Cm were made for people which T4 aren't hard enough for. In general fractal were designed for more causal players by making them shorter then dungeons.

The Tier levels were made to emulate the story/normal/ hard mode from GW 1 and also giving players a progression system in the fractals.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > > > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

> > > >

> > > > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :)

> > >

> > > Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise?

> >

> > He can't. Because he's lying.

>

> Cm were made for people which T4 aren't hard enough for. In general fractal were designed for more causal players by making them shorter then dungeons.

> The Tier levels were made to emulate the story/normal/ hard mode from GW 1 and also giving players a progression system in the fractals.

 

There is no statement saying however that fractals were supposed to be the same difficulty or style, as dungeons. They were simple stated as a replacement for short 5 man content.

 

And every single AMA where this question was posed the devs always said this.

 

And the teir levels were not made to emulate the story/explorable mode portion. They were made to be stepping stones to higher teirs by way of layering mechanics or making them less punishing to learn.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > > @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > > > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > > > > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

> > > > >

> > > > > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :)

> > > >

> > > > Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise?

> > >

> > > He can't. Because he's lying.

> >

> > Cm were made for people which T4 aren't hard enough for. In general fractal were designed for more causal players by making them shorter then dungeons.

> > The Tier levels were made to emulate the story/normal/ hard mode from GW 1 and also giving players a progression system in the fractals.

>

> There is no statement saying however that fractals were supposed to be the same difficulty or style, as dungeons. They were simple stated as a replacement for short 5 man content.

>

> And every single AMA where this question was posed the devs always said this.

>

> And the teir levels were not made to emulate the story/explorable mode portion. They were made to be stepping stones to higher teirs by way of layering mechanics or making them less punishing to learn.

 

and?

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > > > @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > > > > @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > > > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > > > > > > If you can’t handle T4, run T3, if you can’t handle T3, run T2 and so on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It’s like complaining about a hard mode being too uhm „hard”?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > T4s are not hardmode, CMs are. Fractals were promised to be our substitue of dungeon level difficulty :)

> > > > >

> > > > > Could you point me to where they said this or made this promise?

> > > >

> > > > He can't. Because he's lying.

> > >

> > > Cm were made for people which T4 aren't hard enough for. In general fractal were designed for more causal players by making them shorter then dungeons.

> > > The Tier levels were made to emulate the story/normal/ hard mode from GW 1 and also giving players a progression system in the fractals.

> >

> > There is no statement saying however that fractals were supposed to be the same difficulty or style, as dungeons. They were simple stated as a replacement for short 5 man content.

> >

> > And every single AMA where this question was posed the devs always said this.

> >

> > And the teir levels were not made to emulate the story/explorable mode portion. They were made to be stepping stones to higher teirs by way of layering mechanics or making them less punishing to learn.

>

> and?

 

Meaning that his statement is dishonest and unfounded.

[Cerioth.7062]

The fractaks are better than ever. I hope they will revamp the rest of the old fractals. Never had this much fun with them! Snce Nightmare came out fractals have been on a good spot. The telegraphs and mechanics are very clear, and the new special action keys let you skip lot of attacks with ease. Its not the end of the world if you get hit by one AOE from Viirastra as long as you know which things to NOT get hit by. Same goes for Arkk - you see the eye, turn around and you'll be fine. Know which attacks are the most dangerous. Take a healer with you if you struggle (healer is also great for OLD FRACTALS like Mai Trin).

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. They were complaining for 3 years, ot raids, good enough. Now they are trying to take over fractals because raids are not enough - as was to be expected. Fractals are not supposed to be 5-man raids and I hope fractal team stops competing with raid team and focuses on providing fun yet not annoying fractals and never repeats the mistake of shattered observatory :)

 

Anet, you will never satisfy raiders. This week they are praising new fractal and new raid. In a month they will go back to daily complaints of "not hard enough" content, develop cheezy tactics and continue with selling progression through your content. Please don't break fractals anymore, people who you try to please will never be grateful :)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders.

 

Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders. They were complaining for 3 years, ot raids, good enough. Now they are trying to take over fractals because raids are not enough - as was to be expected. Fractals are not supposed to be 5-man raids and I hope fractal team stops competing with raid team and focuses on providing fun yet not annoying fractals and never repeats the mistake of shattered observatory :)

>

> Anet, you will never satisfy raiders. This week they are praising new fractal and new raid. In a month they will go back to daily complaints of "not hard enough" content, develop cheezy tactics and continue with selling progression through your content. Please don't break fractals anymore, people who you try to please will never be grateful :)

 

You can repeat that "new fractals are 5-man raids" mantra all you like, it's not going to become any more valid. I'm playing actively both, and let me assure you - fractals most certainly are NOT 5-man raids. Not even CMs.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders.

>

> Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone.

 

Raids and CMs. T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess :)

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders.

> >

> > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone.

>

> Raids and CMs. T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess :)

 

Citation needed.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders.

> > >

> > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone.

> >

> > Raids and CMs. T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess :)

>

> Citation needed.

 

First I need to see T4s (non-CM) being intended to be 5-man raid content :)

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > I hope Anet stops listening to loud minority and start thinking about playerbase as a whole. We are the core of the game, not raiders.

> > > >

> > > > Raids & fractals (especially t4) are intended to be challenging group content. The intended audience is a minority of the playerbase. The core of the game is designed to appeal to the majority of players (how well ANet succeeded in this can be debated, of course); fractals & raids don't need to be designed for everyone.

> > >

> > > Raids and CMs. T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess :)

> >

> > Citation needed.

>

> First I need to see T4s (non-CM) being intended to be 5-man raid content :)

 

No need, as they are nothing like 5-man raid content.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> I need to see T4s (non-CM) being intended to be 5-man raid content :)

 

What? No one is saying anything of the sort.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> Raids and CMs. T4s are supposed to be a bit higher yet still casual dungeon-like experience for people not interested in raiding mess :)

 

Should check this link:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/instanced-combat/

 

Dungeons:

>Each dungeon is divided into story mode, which features a gripping plot and fearsome opponents, and explorable mode, where players can access even more challenging content with new goals and obstacles.

 

Notice how explorable mode needs to be "challenging", I'm sure their current implementation is NOT.

 

Fractals:

> The Fractals of the Mists is a string of increasingly challenging dungeons that takes teams of five players through fragments of the mystical protoreality known as the Mists.

> As you complete fractals, your personal fractal level will rise, and you’ll be able to explore at a higher difficulty for greater challenges and rewards.

 

Increasingly challenging dungeons. The old Fractals have 2 difficulties, T1,2,3 and T4, there is little to no reason to run the T2 or T3 versions because they are still very easy. T4 is the only version that provides an actual challenge. With the new fractals, and the revamps the increase in challenge is more visible and now more tiers have a reason to exist.

 

> They are excellent for seasoned explorers who love to adventure alongside other players in quick, challenging encounters.

 

Once again, the word challenging here. I only see the word challenge everywhere and not "casual dungeon-like experience". Do you have something more official than the official website that says otherwise?

 

Raids:

> Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ introduces the ultimate challenge in the form of raids.

 

Raids are the "ultimate challenge", self-explanatory.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

Even more from the Heart of Thorns website:

 

> The endgame Fractals of the Mists dungeons will be updated to allow you to run a single Fractal at a time, making it easier to quickly form parties with your fellow players and be rapidly rewarded for success. The maximum Fractal dungeon level will be increased from 50 to 100, and new Mistlock Instabilities will be added to make reaching the highest levels even more challenging.

 

Notice the endgame and the highest levels being even more challenging. I hope it's self explanatory.