Think that the nercos are overpowered, wait untill you meet a p/p deadeye...

[Curunen.8729]

Nothing more satisfying than watching p/p thieves kill themselves on reflects. xD

[Lumberjack.8546]

> @Jasonbdj.4021 said:

>

> I never said I had problems, am running Mesmer however this thief wiped half the team.

>

> I am just pointing out that why a simple one skill doing stupidly high damage less then within few second (instant too due to quickness) with no effort needed?

>

> Didn't ask for judgment or such a useless post.....

>

> I just believe it is indeed overpowered simple.

 

Since he's running p/p deadeye, he has very little damage mitigation save for the two innate dodges he has, so he has to rely on utilities or SA traited steal to stealth. Anything with a reveal will make him a sitting duck after he twitch dodges. You were mesmer, if you were playing a mantra burst build, you can daze him and burst him down, if you are a condi build, you'll applying so much pressure on him that he cannot return due to your shatters/invuln/sword 2 evade.

 

**What if he disengages via stealth?** : Contribute to the teamfight for a few seconds before you start looking for him again. That time spent running away LoSing is him being useless. Jump on him if he dares to come back.

 

**What if he downs a teammate?** : P/P has pathetically low amounts of cleave. If you're next to your downed teamate you can pick him up after you apply some counterpressure.

 

A p/p excels in:

 

1. People going in one by one, your teammates probably won't paying attention to their respawn timers and immediately rushed back to point, staggering their respawns so they make good target practice for a thief. Any team that remotely support each other would make his pew pew a lot less effective.

2. People without proper damage mitigation like Necros, though if you're a scourge you can probably make his life miserable by a well timed fear.

[Dawdler.8521]

 

> @Jasonbdj.4021 said:

> > @FOX.3582 said:

> > You are just a really bad player if you lose against a deadeye.

>

> I never said I had problems, am running Mesmer however this thief wiped half the team.

>

> I am just pointing out that why a simple one skill doing stupidly high damage less then within few second (instant too due to quickness) with no effort needed?

>

> Didn't ask for judgment or such a useless post.....

>

> I just believe it is indeed overpowered simple.

Ah yes, the mesmer class... which could have just said dont worry guys I handle the thief, dodge once and go lol thief why you kill yourself in 2 seconds? It _is_ stupid how something simple can do so much damage when you got the right tools in the build.

[Griever.8150]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > p/p deadeye is only good if there isn't a thief on the enemy team and also you are against x2 scourge.

> > And yes the damage is insane but that's all, it's just really good against scourge and average against everything else.

>

> I think you mean necros in general not just scourge. Nothing like having your entire shroud bar deleted by 1 unload, and necros only have 2 dodge charges.

>

> tbh p/p should have been redone ages ago. A weaponset that exclusively focuses on spamming 1 button repeatedly is just dumb.

 

I don't think it was how it was intended to be played since Pistol 2 does nothing but stack Vulnerability. The original design was probably that you needed to stack that before using unload but its useless now thanks to the power-creep.

 

I like playing P/P (mostly because i like ranged/mobile characters) and would like to see it reworked to be less of a one-trick.

 

At the same time the community just doesn't seem to want Thieves to run anything but D/P so what would be the point of spending resources on that?

[sephiroth.4217]

All I see in the picture is 3 people attacking you, by the looks of it, you were hit by a Rapid Fire and Unload.

 

Last time I checked, Thief didn't have access to Rapid Fire or Orb Of Wrath.

 

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"ChivalrousKnight.7201" said:

> p/p thief pretty much exclusively beats necromancers (assuming you were one). Although their +1 is pretty good though as a full unload to an unsuspecting target really hurts. Other that that, p/p deadeye and by extension p/p thief is not broken at all. IMO i'd say it's too weak but at the same time i'd rather not see it buffed because I don't like it's play style.

 

You could remove every skill except unload and p/p thief gameplay would be completely unaffected

[Jasonbdj.4021]

Why do people have to post useless insulting post without any understanding, to make themselves feel/look superior?

 

Anyways let me make it more clear what I’m saying as people just love to attack people.

 

I am talking about the Unload skill stupidly doing high damage within few seconds.

 

I just witness half of the team wiped from the build that the thief is running (you can see the damage on the ss for each single shot from unload).

 

I think it stupid that the thief can brainlessly use Unload skill and do extremely more damage compare to someone who uses their skill bar.

 

I guess that the build has its weakness as explained by few people (never played the build myself) but depending on what build you are running and the team.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> Why do people have to post useless insulting post without any understanding, to make themselves feel/look superior?

>

> Anyways let me make it more clear what I’m saying as people just love to attack people.

>

> I am talking about the Unload skill stupidly doing high damage within few seconds.

>

> I just witness half of the team wiped from the build that the thief is running (you can see the damage on the ss for each single shot from unload).

>

> I think it stupid that the thief can brainlessly use Unload skill and do extremely more damage compare to someone who uses their skill bar.

>

> I guess that the build has its weakness as explained by few people (never played the build myself) but depending on what build you are running and the team.

 

It's completly inferior to Holosmith when it comes to efficiency, also it's bad at what Thief should be doing.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > > @Vitali.5039 said:

> > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > You are just a really bad player if you lose against a deadeye.

> > >

> > > P/P Thief counter DHs

> >

> > what?

>

> Never heard of "I'm swapping to P/P" thieves when versus DHs?

 

There's almost no other build any form of DH hardcounters harder than P/P

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> > Why do people have to post useless insulting post without any understanding, to make themselves feel/look superior?

> >

> > Anyways let me make it more clear what I’m saying as people just love to attack people.

> >

> > I am talking about the Unload skill stupidly doing high damage within few seconds.

> >

> > I just witness half of the team wiped from the build that the thief is running (you can see the damage on the ss for each single shot from unload).

> >

> > I think it stupid that the thief can brainlessly use Unload skill and do extremely more damage compare to someone who uses their skill bar.

> >

> > I guess that the build has its weakness as explained by few people (never played the build myself) but depending on what build you are running and the team.

>

> It's completly inferior to Holosmith when it comes to efficiency, also it's bad at what Thief should be doing.

 

^^this. Nothing else needs to be said.

 

I have seen p/p wiping teams but it was because entire team chose to ignore p/p and p/p would have second zerker to help them (e.g. zerker medi dh). This is not p/p issue however but MM failure to create balanced match where players are somewhere within similar skill range.

[Murdock.6547]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @Murdock.6547 said:

> > Last few games I encountered a p/p deadeye / daredevil I killed them with my dagger+greatsword shout reaper.

> > That's how kitten a build it is. If it's not a +1, they're going to lose to anyone with half a brain and a projectile destruction/reflect.

> > If it is a plus 1, it's quite alright.. but so is any thief build. A blink backstab from stealth is far more efficient than pewpews.

> >

> > But it's a fun build to play, so why not let them have it I suppose?

>

> A semi-competently played dash dd should eat that reaper build for lunch. Too much mobility for a nearly full melee reaper to land any hits against.

 

you're right.

and even against an incompetent p/p thief its still work to get them down... but I enjoy it.

I enjoy that extra work it takes to bring down a spellbreaker, or a daredevil, or a mesmer. It gives me a sick satisfaction to put down the top builds with one of the bottom tiers.

 

.. but p/p is trash. If I go on my actual ranked build I look at them and they either leave or they die instantly. They rely far too much in their full channel to get reliable damage, so interrupts of any sort (even self interrupts) screw them over. Plus their pewpew spam also means they don't get to SB away in typical "I'm losing the fight" daredevil fashion.

It's a +1 build. As with any thief build. And it decimates people who don't (or can't for whatever reason) strike down the thief.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

A P/P thief is so utterly useless vs a meta comp that a single FB which does 0 actual damage can kill it just with reflects and retaliation damage.

[otto.5684]

> @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > @FOX.3582 said:

> > You are just a really bad player if you lose against a deadeye.

>

> P/P Thief counter DHs

 

If you are a bad DH, it does.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

I can't even wrap my head around how a DH loses to a P/P outside of being caught with literally 0 cooldowns.

 

just the professional mechanic literally hardcounters P/P, F3 to lol at their pew pew, F1 them into ToF and they're dead.

[Vitali.5039]

> @"Darknicrofia.2604" said:

> > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > > > @Vitali.5039 said:

> > > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > > You are just a really bad player if you lose against a deadeye.

> > > >

> > > > P/P Thief counter DHs

> > >

> > > what?

> >

> > Never heard of "I'm swapping to P/P" thieves when versus DHs?

>

> There's almost no other build any form of DH hardcounters harder than P/P

 

What P/P Thief avoid when fighting DHs:

ToF damage - You'll not be Knocked out of it by Shield's Knockback and you'll have endurance to escape it as long as you don't dodge to brawl the DH

(as if you should going to melee it)

 

Hunter's Determination - It will not prevent the opening damage from Steal/Backstab, your damage isn't loaded into a big hitting skill but into more hits

(better vs Aegis)

 

You don't have to waste Steal to open with your burst and you can use it with Basilisk Venom to deny Shield of Courage block + stability.

(stability is a pain)

 

The DH should play more aggressively to hit it and thieves can make a fool every builds avoiding their damage.

(gz, you have countered your DH)

 

 

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > You are just a really bad player if you lose against a deadeye.

> >

> > P/P Thief counter DHs

>

> If you are a bad DH, it does.

 

So many good DH died to Unload spam~

You could be the next.

 

[babazhook.6805]

The effectiveness of P/P is maximized by a thief that sees it as a supplementary weapon. IE used in conjunction with s/d both s/d and p/p become more effective damage dealers. In PvP this does not work as well due to the reliance on the SB for mobility. Most thieves will use SB to move quickly around the map or escape danger. Since the prime damage dealer in the p/p set can eat up INI the two of them do not complement each other too well. INI burned on unload means no INI needed for SB 5 lacking and INI used on SB 5 to get to a given area means no INI left for p/p unload when you get there.

 

The AA of other off hand weapon sets (s/x and d/x) is always superior to the AA of P/P meaning you are always a threat to be dishing out damage.

 

P/P builds can do well in WvW simply because there less a need to get to a given area on the map quickly and there more opportunity to plus 1 fights from range where an enemy focused elsewhere.

 

A thief using stealth and ports can generally initiate a fight and get that all important first attack in. On P/P this means an unload will have a higher likelihood of hitting for its entirety on its first channel. After that a lot relies on the skill level of the enemy and you can get a feel for that depending on how the respond. Bad players can be susceptiple to more unloads while with others you have to make a quick decision as to whether you want to switch off to that other set. (might stacked steal with MUG and an AA chain right after an unload can be far more effective then another unload)

[Vague Memory.2817]

Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

 

Any thief that uses only one button (ie unload) can only be successful against poor players. Poor players can be downed easily by a whole pile of skills coming from any number of professions.

 

Comparing Vault to Unload as example. Vault has a built in evade and unload does not. Unload channel time is 1.5 seconds where vault is 3/4 with part of that an evade. Unload is a projectile and can be deflected or have LOS used to prevent wherein vault is a direct attack. Unload hits one target and vault is AOE hitting 5 and does not need a target.

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

>

> Any thief that uses only one button (ie unload) can only be successful against poor players. Poor players can be downed easily by a whole pile of skills coming from any number of professions.

>

> Comparing Vault to Unload as example. Vault has a built in evade and unload does not. Unload channel time is 1.5 seconds where vault is 3/4 with part of that an evade. Unload is a projectile and can be deflected or have LOS used to prevent wherein vault is a direct attack. Unload hits one target and vault is AOE hitting 5 and does not need a target.

 

Well many thieves are using unload and I rarely see Vaults any more. From that observation then Unload is better than the Vault Build. I don't see how a player is considered poor if they are already engaged in a fight and a thief unloaded repeated at them from a distance behind you off the screen (that's at the max zoom out this game allows). The change obviously happened when the devs decided to give unload an initiative return upon a successfully hitting the target with all shots. Like a lot of people on the forum defending something you are assuming all PvP fights begin a 1v1 and end as a 1v1, when this actually quite rare.

[Majirah.5089]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

 

Who uses the vault build? I remember using it when I first started playing, but I was playing against other noobs. Anyone with reflexes faster than a sloth can avoid vault making that whole build useless.

 

It’s only use is to vault on a downed player while someone is trying to rez them. Still a useless build.

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"Majirah.5089" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

>

> Who uses the vault build? I remember using it when I first started playing, but I was playing against other noobs. Anyone with reflexes faster than a sloth can avoid vault making that whole build useless.

>

> It’s only use is to vault on a downed player while someone is trying to rez them. Still a useless build.

 

It isn't hardly used anymore. I was drawing a comparison to unload. Actually the build was quite effective in mid fights because of the massive damage, it's fairly large radius, the built in evade and its spamability. The evade frame was way too good for that skill, it was almost impossible to hit the thief. However it was a popular build even in platinum.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > Unload is way too good at the moment, akin to the Vault build. Any build that can use only 1 weapon and 1 skill on that weapon and be successful is obviously broken. I'm looking at you too rapid fire rangers.

> >

> > Any thief that uses only one button (ie unload) can only be successful against poor players. Poor players can be downed easily by a whole pile of skills coming from any number of professions.

> >

> > Comparing Vault to Unload as example. Vault has a built in evade and unload does not. Unload channel time is 1.5 seconds where vault is 3/4 with part of that an evade. Unload is a projectile and can be deflected or have LOS used to prevent wherein vault is a direct attack. Unload hits one target and vault is AOE hitting 5 and does not need a target.

>

> Well many thieves are using unload and I rarely see Vaults any more. From that observation then Unload is better than the Vault Build. I don't see how a player is considered poor if they are already engaged in a fight and a thief unloaded repeated at them from a distance behind you off the screen (that's at the max zoom out this game allows). The change obviously happened when the devs decided to give unload an initiative return upon a successfully hitting the target with all shots. Like a lot of people on the forum defending something you are assuming all PvP fights begin a 1v1 and end as a 1v1, when this actually quite rare.

 

Many theives are using P/P simply because players learned to adapt to Vault. You can do the same with P/P just as you can with any spam type player. if they do the same thing over and over again you can more easily avoid attacks.

 

Vault is still used, but it by players who did not resort to spamming as it is more effective when it not spammed.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

People stopped using vault not because its bad, but because Scourge has invalidated melee without Firebrand support, especially for low base HP classes, and in the same vein, unload spam is being used more not because it got better, but because Scourge doesn't deal with ranged damage well without Firebrand support.

 

Basically, EVERYTHING in the PoF meta currently revolves around Scourge, and the Firebrands that either support Scourges or helps other things deal with Scourges.

[Loboling.5293]

I once died to a p/p thief, my game automatically uninstalled.... Anyone else? ;P

 

But seriously, as trolly as this build is, I don't think it's competitive. Only time I die to it, is when trying out new builds, or it's the beginning of the match before I realize their build. My Soulbeast build makes these theives look like children playing with toy pistols. (Especially the dead-eye variant)

[Blood.5607]

> @"Jasonbdj.4021" said:

> Seriously, down within few sec. Theft just spawns one simple skill and can take the whole team down with it.[https://ibb.co/cBNRNw](https://ibb.co/cBNRNw "https://ibb.co/cBNRNw")

 

Necro (Scourges) are in the meta. P/p deadeyes are not because theyre not good... If u do happen to see one focusing you... Just LoS it.