Legendary weapons should be a step above ascended

[CrusaderMichael.9245]

I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty.

 

Legendary weapons should all hit in legendary ways, and possibly have a unique small power as well.

 

EDIT: maybe have us able to upgrade the legendary weapons, after going on some long and hard quest or something. 1 quest series, per legendary you want upgraded.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said:

> I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty.

Try to imagine how many would quit if the optional grind became important in any way|shape|form other than cosmetic.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > I have got to ask.. just for my own sanity.

> >

> > If legendary weapons weer buffed .. say 5% better.. how many people would in fact be affected by this to the point that they would need to grind one out for this very reason.

> >

> > I mean..in all seriousness, Open World & Dungeons. would not be affected at all, I would imagine up to Mid Level fractals would also not be affected by this either. and even then. Raids and T4 Fractals are commonly static/guild, so they would not be affected that much either.

> >

> > So who would this really hurt? (outside the WvW players.. sorry guys.. but lets get real.. Anet hates us anyway)

> That's pretty much the difference between exotics and ascended - and (although many people back in 2013 were saying the very same things you're saying now), that difference ended up not so insignificant after all. I see no reason to think that legendaries would be any different.

>

>

 

Eh how so?

 

The game was not broken by Ascended, in fact.. let this simmer.. Infusions have not become that big a thing till just this past year, that means.. it took like over 4 years.. for Ascended to really become the "expected" gear.. Outside Fractals with their hard gear requirement of AR, I don't see Dungeon runs saying "Ascended or GTFO" , I don't see WvW commanders doing gear checks, in fact.. honestly.. the few raid runs I did... the discussions were more about Build/Traits/Elite Spec, then Gear demands. Which is how the game should be.

 

And. to be honest, it makes sense that to raid you should bring your A game, best gear.. in fact.. between you and me.. I was kinda annoyed that raids didn't have a hard gear gate like fractals did, But.. that was not how Anet rolled.. they made it easy.. Exotics are good enough.. and bam done.

 

Let that simmer.. nothing really bad happened to the game with Ascended's introduction, we are all not grinding till our eyes bleed to outfit all our characters in it, it's not even the 'Go to' for "their hardest content" Raids, as many will tell you.. exotics are good enough.

 

So.. no.. I don't see this massive "world ending" problem. Explain it to me how ascended destroyed the game?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said:

> > I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty.

> Try to imagine how many would quit if the optional grind became important in any way|shape|form other than cosmetic.

>

 

At this point.. I don't think many would. I mean, the few that would be actually be affected by it (Raids, T4's) are not a large demographic (Anet put them at around 20% max) , and to be fair, they are the ones that wanted more hardcore type features to start with and feel their efforts should be rewarded, so they should embrace this wholly, as it would be staggeringly hypocritical of them to change that tone of rewarding efforts when it comes legendary items.

 

Everyone else, I think would welcome the minor power boots for their efforts.

 

I don't think any significant amount of players would really quit over this.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said:

> > > I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty.

> > Try to imagine how many would quit if the optional grind became important in any way|shape|form other than cosmetic.

> >

>

> At this point.. I don't think many would. I mean, the few that would be actually be affected by it (Raids, T4's) are not a large demographic (Anet put them at around 20% max) , and to be fair, they are the ones that wanted more hardcore type features to start with and feel their efforts should be rewarded, so they should embrace this wholly, as it would be staggeringly hypocritical of them to change that tone of rewarding efforts when it comes legendary items.

>

> Everyone else, I think would welcome the minor power boots for their efforts.

>

> I don't think any significant amount of players would really quit over this.

 

People quit over the price of mountfits. You really think no one would react or overreact over breaking one of the few promises ANet ever made about the game?

 

But you missed my point: worrying about people quitting because the stats are equal (and have been for 5 years) isn't a good enough reason to change them. It's extremely unlikely that more people are quitting the game this month because of a lack of change than would quit because ANet suddenly reversed course on gear grind.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said:

> > > > I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty.

> > > Try to imagine how many would quit if the optional grind became important in any way|shape|form other than cosmetic.

> > >

> >

> > At this point.. I don't think many would. I mean, the few that would be actually be affected by it (Raids, T4's) are not a large demographic (Anet put them at around 20% max) , and to be fair, they are the ones that wanted more hardcore type features to start with and feel their efforts should be rewarded, so they should embrace this wholly, as it would be staggeringly hypocritical of them to change that tone of rewarding efforts when it comes legendary items.

> >

> > Everyone else, I think would welcome the minor power boots for their efforts.

> >

> > I don't think any significant amount of players would really quit over this.

>

> People quit over the price of mountfits. You really think no one would react or overreact over breaking one of the few promises ANet ever made about the game?

>

> But you missed my point: worrying about people quitting because the stats are equal (and have been for 5 years) isn't a good enough reason to change them. It's extremely unlikely that more people are quitting the game this month because of a lack of change than would quit because ANet suddenly reversed course on gear grind.

 

I said.

 

> I don't think any **significant amount** of players would really quit over this.

 

Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

 

There really is no PvE based reason to be against this, from a players view, and.. well.. we have to face reality.. Colin does not work there anymore, so.. we can't hold the new director to what the old director said.

[Avigrus.2871]

If there were stat increases, Legendary Weapons would need to be acquirable in PvP & WvW as well.

[Sithis.3564]

Let this topic die.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Avigrus.2871" said:

> If there were stat increases, Legendary Weapons would need to be acquirable in PvP & WvW as well.

 

Legendary Armor and back Items are already in PvP which boggles my mind.. because PvP uses amulets, so has no use for legendary gear (or any gear for that matter) at all on any level.

 

WvW also has Legendary gear (Armor/Back) and weapons require the Gift of Battle (WvW reward track excursive item)

 

So..your request has been granted.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> I said.

>

> > I don't think any **significant amount** of players would really quit over this.

Yes, you did say that. And it still doesn't affect my point: there are even fewer than **any significant amount** quitting over the status quo. It's been this way for years; people can't be reasonably surprised that legendaries have the same stats as ascended.

 

>

> Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

You do realize that tons and tons have people started playing since then. And there's a huge difference between adding ascended rings that have nominal costs and (later) weapons that cost less than 3% that of legendaries. Ascended is a small bump from exotic, but bumping legendary on top of that would make a significant better-than-exotic bump for an exorbitant cost.

 

 

>

> There really is no PvE based reason to be against this, from a players view, and..

On the contrary, there's a whole list of PvE reasons to be against this, as you can read above.

 

> well.. we have to face reality..

I don't think that argument flies. The pro-stat-boost argument depends entirely on not accepting the status quo.

 

> Colin does not work there anymore, so.. we can't hold the new director to what the old director said.

I don't hold any studio to anything short of an actual promise, which ANet has almost never made. Things change and it's bad business to be unwilling to adapt to new circumstances just because someone in the past made a prediction about how things would go.

 

But in this case, what's the business objective of offering extra stats for legendaries? Will the game gain more customers than it loses? Will it be worth the loss to ANet's sometimes-shaky credibility? Will it make the game more fun for more people than leaving things alone? Is it worth the cost to update rewards and drop rates to fit the new circumstances? Is it worth the opportunities lost, because resources would be spent on this rather than other things that affect more players?

 

So in broad terms, there's no reason to be for this, other than some people are used to it from other games. GW2 works with legendaries = special ascended; it doesn't **need* to change this particular mechanic.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> But in this case, what's the business objective of offering extra stats for legendaries? Will the game gain more customers than it loses?

 

Anything anyone does is a gamble. Not doing anything is as much a gamble as doing something totally crazy.

 

But let me put this out, To some people simply having a glowing item is enough for them.. but.. then those people are not really hardcore players, they are not the people that are going to come here for Raids and the more top level content that Anet is working on making for GW2 going forward. The people that would be attracted to GW2 current end game are the very people that want a gear grind to some extent, because that is what they know, that is what moves them, rewards and upward progression of power.

 

Think about it, Honestly, this game has very little in the way of long reaching rewarding goals, and outside of cosmetics.. has around zilch. Which brings us to the question, why even go after a legendary item to start with if there is no real beneficial reason to get a legendary anything outside of playing "Barbie™ Dress Up", on top of that, think about the game dynamics, with Legendary being equal to Ascended, some filthy casual could be outfitted just as well as a hardcore player, all the while taking one tenth the time to get the same quality gear (abet not as flashy looking).. what motive does a hardcore player have to stay around and play this game?

 

They are in every sense of the world on a hamster wheel.. doing grind purely for the sake of grind with no upward progression...

 

Ummm... I lost my thought on where I was going with this...

[DiabolicalHamSandwich.8756]

Imo I don't really agree. I play GW2 to not have to deal with gear bumps in power. I have been able to stick with exotic on a few characters for the simple fact that I know both ascended AND legendary are a equal slight bump in power. I have made the jump to ascended because I want the best while looking at legendary as something later for the skin. With ascended I am not missing out by not moving to legendary outside of a bit of QoL and the skin. Exotic being good enough is fine because it's already overly easy to get even for multiple characters. I don't mind exotic being weaker because it is honestly throw away for a larger chunk of the player base. With collections, ascended is a bit more easily accessible but nowhere near to the level of exotic. Legendary for the most part is just out of reach for a while.

 

I personally like how a legendary is double optional. Getting ascended is optional for the most part but it is at least within reasonable reach. Legendary is a black hole for materials and gold. I don't want to feel like I gotta go down that hole to get the best stats I can. If I wanted that I would've stuck to BnS. Some people might say "just don't get it then" but as simple as it is to say. Is not the same to do. As a player I want to work towards the best and I can get that with ascended. Legendary feels less of work and more of slaving. I have enough for my 1st legendary but I am now stuck between that or gearing up everything else in full ascended. This decision is solely based on me wanting the legendary skin. Throwing stats in that equation would be worse.

 

If you want Legendary to feel more appealing/rewarding then push for more QoL. It has stat swapping but don't think you can sigil swap so have that added. Or make legendary sigils that only work on legendary weapons. Make legendary weapons dyeable allowing more customization. Now this might raise issues with twilight, sunrise and eternity owners since the reason to swap was the colors i'm guessing. So the whole dye thing would have to be worked on but it's an idea. Give legendary's the ability to skin change with no costs (unless that already exists?). Make legendary effects encompass everything you wield from kits to whatever. Give legendaries the ability to add their own theme songs......for JUST the wielder. From full music change to simply walking and making sounds/music per step. Give out titles for making legendaries. Give a reduced cost to making more. Now this also might go bad with people flipping for profit or the cost going down depending on how it's handled. But once again just ideas.

 

Make legendaries more special. Just not more powerful.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Ummm... I lost my thought on where I was going with this...

 

Have another cup of spiced apple cider?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

>

> Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

 

I was among those who did not want Ascended to be put into the game. I decided I could live with it at a 5% difference. Back before HOT Anet announced they were going to bump the Exotic to Ascended gap up to 10%. There was sufficient backlash to get them to change their minds inside a week. This was long after Ascended had been introduced, so anyone who would have left over 5% were long gone. I've no idea how many of those who reacted to that announcement are still around, or how many would drop the game over an added 5%. Neither do you.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> >

> > Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

>

> I was among those who did not want Ascended to be put into the game. I decided I could live with it at a 5% difference. Back before HOT Anet announced they were going to bump the Exotic to Ascended gap up to 10%. There was sufficient backlash to get them to change their minds inside a week. This was long after Ascended had been introduced, so anyone who would have left over 5% were long gone. I've no idea how many of those who reacted to that announcement are still around, or how many would drop the game over an added 5%. Neither do you.

 

I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit?

[Hellride.6571]

They are already better than ascended.

Stat swap and look amazing depending on your preference, what else could you ask for....

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > >

> > > Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

> >

> > I was among those who did not want Ascended to be put into the game. I decided I could live with it at a 5% difference. Back before HOT Anet announced they were going to bump the Exotic to Ascended gap up to 10%. There was sufficient backlash to get them to change their minds inside a week. This was long after Ascended had been introduced, so anyone who would have left over 5% were long gone. I've no idea how many of those who reacted to that announcement are still around, or how many would drop the game over an added 5%. Neither do you.

>

> I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit?

 

In my case, yes, I would. I've bent as far as I'm going to on BiS. I don't give a kitten about raids or fractals, and HoT was fine.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > >

> > > > Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

> > >

> > > I was among those who did not want Ascended to be put into the game. I decided I could live with it at a 5% difference. Back before HOT Anet announced they were going to bump the Exotic to Ascended gap up to 10%. There was sufficient backlash to get them to change their minds inside a week. This was long after Ascended had been introduced, so anyone who would have left over 5% were long gone. I've no idea how many of those who reacted to that announcement are still around, or how many would drop the game over an added 5%. Neither do you.

> >

> > I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit?

>

> In my case, yes, I would. I've bent as far as I'm going to on BiS. I don't give a kitten about raids or fractals, and HoT was fine.

 

I would as well.

[sokeenoppa.5384]

I personally hate Gear mill, but If it is going to happend, they should introuduse New Gear tier, lets call it Epic tier.

5% More dmg than ascended

Can change stats

Almost as easy to get than ascended

 

Legendary Gear has same stats as Epic

Sigil/rune swap

[lokh.2695]

Let this topic die.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > >

> > > Not being rude, but they tossed that whole "No gear grind" out the window when they put in Ascended and Fractals. Anyone that did not quit over that.. won't quit over this. Anyone that came in after. (like myself). would view it more as the next logical step.. not some reverse pace.

> >

> > I was among those who did not want Ascended to be put into the game. I decided I could live with it at a 5% difference. Back before HOT Anet announced they were going to bump the Exotic to Ascended gap up to 10%. There was sufficient backlash to get them to change their minds inside a week. This was long after Ascended had been introduced, so anyone who would have left over 5% were long gone. I've no idea how many of those who reacted to that announcement are still around, or how many would drop the game over an added 5%. Neither do you.

>

> I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit?

Yes. I was already on the edge when they introduced ascended, and was seriously considering it when the idea of upping the exotic-ascended difference got leaked. And i like the game far less now than i did then.

And (as you probably know) i'm not a Raids fan at all.

 

It's about no gear grind, but also about _BiS gear set being affordable_. Ascended are already a bit on the costly side. Legendary set is definitely not something that can be rightly called "affordable" (even if there are players that could probably afford it) - and that's when considering a single set for a single char.

 

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit?

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> In my case, yes, I would. I've bent as far as I'm going to on BiS. I don't give a kitten about raids or fractals, and HoT was fine.

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> I would as well.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Yes. I was already on the edge when they introduced ascended, and was seriously considering it when the idea of upping the exotic-ascended difference got leaked. And i like the game far less now than i did then.

> And (as you probably know) i'm not a Raids fan at all.

>

> It's about no gear grind, but also about _BiS gear set being affordable_. Ascended are already a bit on the costly side. Legendary set is definitely not something that can be rightly called "affordable" (even if there are players that could probably afford it) - and that's when considering a single set for a single char.

>

 

Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this.

 

Let me use an example, I have exactly 2 characters with Ascended gear, only one that has the weapons as well (Mainly due to needing AR for fractals, an while I have never done above a T3, I have 150 AR just in case my better skilled guild mates need some comedy relief.

 

But, see, I didn't go out and grind that gear because I needed "BiS" or even cared about such a thing.. I got the gear because I needed the AR infusions to do fractals. So,in that vein, unless it matters to the content you plan to do, I don't see what the motive is to need this gear to start with. I'm more then content to have my other characters be nowhere near as decked out, since none of them will be doing fractals.

 

Now.. I said I had 2 toons.. so what about the second one..which is a good question, why do I have 2 in Ascended if I claim only one needed it?.. well.. as it turns out.. I learned that it was almost as huge a pain in the ass to craft Cele as it was to craft WupWup, soo.. I just went to WupWup. Really that was the only reason, it was along the lines. if I have to trudge to hell to make this.. I might as well make the best and be done with it.

 

Now, Arguably, I still don't have Bis gear, even if I have 150 AR, and Full Ascended, unless I also go though the effort to get a complete set of +5 stat infusions (or other Stat increasing Infusions, like Queen Bee or what have you) , because unless I do, I will be roughly.. I think.. something like 70 some odd stat, behind what would be the best gear I can get. Will I do this.. there is a better then good chance.. no I will not.

 

Now, To put that in prospective, a full set of Knights Ascended Armor is only 52 stat points above Knights Exotic (guess which armor I made to know this! .. yes I looked it up in game).

 

Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well.

 

So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day?

 

I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**.

[Mal.1670]

Legendary gear already has the benefit of being able to switch stats "for free." Any increase in stats over ascended gear won't be received well, although being able to switch sigils/runes freely as well would be a nice touch.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Mal.1670" said:

> Legendary gear already has the benefit of being able to switch stats "for free." Any increase in stats over ascended gear won't be received well, although being able to switch sigils/runes freely as well would be a nice touch.

 

Armor can already swap Runes and Infusions if you own the ones you are swapping out.

 

Weapons lack that funciton

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this.

 

Actually, you don't have to get it. You have to provide a reason why it's worth ANet's time to upend the status quo. It's up to those wishing for a change to show that it's better for the community overall.

 

If the justification is "but people are quitting the game now over the stats being equal" then it's also important to establish whether — and why — anyone might quit if things were changed. However, since it hasn't been established that any significant number of folks are leaving the game because legendary stats are the same as ascended, I think it the "please change" argument would be strengthened by dropping the point altogether.

 

tl;dr it's up to proponents to justify the proposed change