What would you give revenants so that they can be a strong class in competitive settings again?

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

 

Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

 

Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

 

Give Equilibrium back.

[Bast.7253]

I have literally never seen a single renegade in a pvp match. That should tell them something about the class, right?

 

Herald could use more cleanse or at least staff 4 with more cleanse and a stronger heal, or even a heal that increases based on conditions cleansed, but Khala is a lost cause. The energy requirement is still too much and the spirits being killable Wells is just a joke. Short bow as a primary weapon for any class is kind of a joke though. At least condi ranger has a little more defensive capability with theirs though.

 

I think rev just has the problem of being designed too complex initially and a lack of vision for the specs outside of group utility. The next elite spec really needs to be like shiro and just focus on the revenant being their own selfish profession without trying to be some pseudo-effective damage or defensive support class that usually winds up requiring more skill than any of the other support classes to be efficient. Probably the biggest disappointment out of all of the new elite specs was khala. It’s really fun for bounty trains and decent for solo play but even trying to run the hammer build on metabattle for wvw is just nothing in comparison to herald.

 

Don’t queue for ranked within the next 2 hours if you’re in mid tier gold because I think I’m going to test out a renegade build just to mark it off my bucket list. And probably get well-deserved hate from everyone on my team. Lul

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> Nothing, rev is a rather balanced, slightly above average class. Just nerf the currently overperforming specs and that's it.

 

This. A couple edges could be smoothed out, like sword 5 is in desperate need of an animation speed up, and staff 4 has a needlessly long cast time. but mostly we need the overtuned stuff brought into balance. Constantly buffing things is how you get power creep, nerfing is a lot healthier for the longterm gain. like a lot of people here are saying "buff hot specs up to match pof specs", but if you do that than now core builds are even more useless then they already are.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

>

> Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

>

> Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

>

> Give Equilibrium back.

 

These are pretty solid though, except bringing equilibrium back. 0 cast time or animation burst is cancer. I just wish they extended this philosophy to other classes...

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

> >

> > Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

> >

> > Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

> >

> > Give Equilibrium back.

>

> These are pretty solid though, except bringing equilibrium back. 0 cast time or animation burst is cancer. I just wish they extended this philosophy to other classes...

 

Equilibrium had a heavy cost. At least that kept it balanced. As long as Smite Condition is considered fine there is nothing wrong with Equilibrium.

[Toron.4856]

make staff 4 instant cast and not 2 mins cast time LOL or at least speed it up to 0.25-0.5 secs

[Les.4872]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

> > >

> > > Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

> > >

> > > Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

> > >

> > > Give Equilibrium back.

> >

> > These are pretty solid though, except bringing equilibrium back. 0 cast time or animation burst is cancer. I just wish they extended this philosophy to other classes...

>

> Equilibrium had a heavy cost. At least that kept it balanced. As long as Smite Condition is considered fine there is nothing wrong with Equilibrium.

 

Equilibrium lost most of it's mojo with the removal of hydromancy and air sigils anyways and I doubt it'll do much aside from allowing small burst opportunities with careful energy management. Maybe if they did something like smite conditions where you only deal damage on legend swap but you deal more for each condition removed. Max 2 condis removed.

[Toron.4856]

equilibrium still hit 5k in pvp before they removed it.

youre right tho. 5k additional aoe dmg to the burst without casting time is not much of a big deal. i mean.. it only hit twice as much as 2 fully hitting surge of the mists lul

 

[Loop.8106]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

>

> Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

>

> Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

>

> Give Equilibrium back.

 

Currently on my phone, so forgive any formatting issues.

 

As a guardian I'll admit my view may be somewhat biased, however... Unblockable skills are not the solution. Start by reducing blocks rather than invalidating then completely, it's the one form of damage mitigation core guard and DH still has.

As for returning sword 3 and staff 5 to their previous implementations are beyond retarded considering how loaded they already were. Bug fixes on sword three should be the main priority.

As people previously stated, rev damage is top-tier and the focus should be on sustain. Namely vs conditions.

Having 3 condi clears on staff would be a step in the right direction.

 

However buffing dmg or give rev more access to unblockable does not solve the underlying issue. It just makes them even stronger vs builds they already beat. Namely guardians and even spellbreaker to some extent.

[otto.5684]

There are several things to fix:

 

Power rev

Bruiser builds (lack of them)

Condi

Renegade

 

Power rev is okay, but damage is heavily diluted in group fights, it is way too susceptible to condi damage and even more susceptible to boon corruption. Surely scourge needs a major boon corruption nerf, if not out right removal, but fighting condis will remain a problem. Also shield needs a bit of a buff. It is currenty so outdated.

 

Bruiser builds could be possible if Jalis and retribution line offer steady damage reduction, condi removal and offer stability in a consistent fashion. Currently they offer none of the that and both are not used at all in sPvP. Jalis is held back by ridiculous energy costs.

 

Ventari needs work, but I am not well verused in it.

 

Condi rev damage needs some of its damage nerfed over the last two patches unnerfed. The damage overall stayed similar in PvE, but condi dps already suffer from difficult of landing damage. A high ramp up means one cleanse sets you back ages. Sustainability of condi build is on the low side, and ironically highly susceptible to condi damage if resistance is removed (that never happens. Right?!). Also some of mallyx utilities need energy cost reduction.

 

Finally renegade, burn with fire I guess ?. It sucks in all shapes and forms in PvP. Also fails completely in having any diffirentiation from pre PoF condi build, except it does slight more damage and has less sustainability. Short bow is garbage. Super slow skills that are ultra finicky. Great formula for success in PvP.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Yeah Rev needs some love. For example, Pain Absorption makes no sense...

I mean it's just like plague signet on Necros, but unlike necros who have plague signet, consume conditions, etc. To get rid of the condis they take from allies, Revenants are stuck with just a delayed effect. I have a friend that started playing recently and he plays condi Renegade, with Malix. And whe've been doing Silverwastes for the luminescent stuff. And whenever he got out from Copper Husk he'd have like 2 minutes of cripple on him from having used Pain Absorption during encounters.

Sure he could use Dwarf heal to cleanse... But Malix should have a better way of clearing condis if he's using them like that.

 

Also, like someone else mentioned, the way Rev works is a bit wonky, having to deal with energy and cooldowns, makes it a bit subpar compared to other classes (the ones that have energy but no cooldowns - like thief, or the ones that have cooldowns but no energy - everyone else).

I understand that they want to revive the old system a bit, but for that they should have not only NOT limited energy outside of combat to 50%, but also added ways for the class to improve energy regeneration through foods or stats.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Loop.8106" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

> >

> > Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

> >

> > Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

> >

> > Give Equilibrium back.

>

> Currently on my phone, so forgive any formatting issues.

>

> As a guardian I'll admit my view may be somewhat biased, however... Unblockable skills are not the solution. Start by reducing blocks rather than invalidating then completely, it's the one form of damage mitigation core guard and DH still has.

> As for returning sword 3 and staff 5 to their previous implementations are beyond kitten considering how loaded they already were. Bug fixes on sword three should be the main priority.

> As people previously stated, rev damage is top-tier and the focus should be on sustain. Namely vs conditions.

> Having 3 condi clears on staff would be a step in the right direction.

>

> However buffing dmg or give rev more access to unblockable does not solve the underlying issue. It just makes them even stronger vs builds they already beat. Namely guardians and even spellbreaker to some extent.

 

Enchanted Daggers needs to be unblockable because it's the only fucking heal skill in this game that can get reflected. I was trying to buff Shiro sustain with that. It should not make attacks unblockable; only the daggers themselves.

 

Maybe each dagger transfers a condition instead?

 

Sword 3 was never even that strong...

 

Staff 5 should have only it's last nerf reverted, this skill has had like 4 damage reductions, but the last one was -50%, putting it in tickle territory.

 

Damage is hardly top tier. In fact there is hardly any damage in team fights unless the revenant is chasing someone around with Impossible Odds autos. Which skill does "top tier damage", the 2k surge? The 4k precision strike (assuming it all hits and crits)? The scattered, buggy, easily countered unrelenting assault?

 

Nope it's all in the quickness autos that cost 10 energy per second, leave the revenant wide open, can be corrupted to slow which the revenant can't cleanse...

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Loop.8106" said:

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

> > >

> > > Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

> > >

> > > Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

> > >

> > > Give Equilibrium back.

> >

> > Currently on my phone, so forgive any formatting issues.

> >

> > As a guardian I'll admit my view may be somewhat biased, however... Unblockable skills are not the solution. Start by reducing blocks rather than invalidating then completely, it's the one form of damage mitigation core guard and DH still has.

> > As for returning sword 3 and staff 5 to their previous implementations are beyond kitten considering how loaded they already were. Bug fixes on sword three should be the main priority.

> > As people previously stated, rev damage is top-tier and the focus should be on sustain. Namely vs conditions.

> > Having 3 condi clears on staff would be a step in the right direction.

> >

> > However buffing dmg or give rev more access to unblockable does not solve the underlying issue. It just makes them even stronger vs builds they already beat. Namely guardians and even spellbreaker to some extent.

>

> Enchanted Daggers needs to be unblockable because it's the only kitten heal skill in this game that can get reflected.

 

To emphasize, it heals the enemy and damages the user if they have a reflect up. One can play around it but it is a huge draw back for what is at best a small heal on a 30 sec cool down.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Les.4872" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > Unnerf weapon skills at least partially. Staff 3 and 5, sword 1 2 and 3. Speed up casts of sword 3 and staff 4. Staff 4 cleanse is now 3 conditions. Fix ALL of sword 3 bugs.

> > > >

> > > > Infuse Light removes all conditions if the revenant is healed to full health. Facet of light back to 1 upkeep point in PvP.

> > > >

> > > > Enchanted Daggers unblockable. Attacks made unblockable by Phase Traversal remove 1 boon each OR lower cost back to 20 energy.

> > > >

> > > > Give Equilibrium back.

> > >

> > > These are pretty solid though, except bringing equilibrium back. 0 cast time or animation burst is cancer. I just wish they extended this philosophy to other classes...

> >

> > Equilibrium had a heavy cost. At least that kept it balanced. As long as Smite Condition is considered fine there is nothing wrong with Equilibrium.

>

> Equilibrium lost most of it's mojo with the removal of hydromancy and air sigils anyways and I doubt it'll do much aside from allowing small burst opportunities with careful energy management. Maybe if they did something like smite conditions where you only deal damage on legend swap but you deal more for each condition removed. Max 2 condis removed.

 

Equilibrium lost its mojo when they nerfed it by 50%.

[narcx.3570]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

>

> I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

>

> https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

 

28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

> >

> > I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

> >

> > https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

>

> 28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

 

That was after using all those procs, there were 34 stack before the screenshot was taken. That’s using both Condi clear Sigils, Leadership and Cleansing Channel the amount of Application that’s mirages are capable of mean nothing to Revenants.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

> >

> > I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

> >

> > https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

>

> 28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

 

Leadership rune proc CD is far longer than Mirage burst LMAO

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Revenant is almost fine barring a minor condi cleanse. some classes just apply too many condi stacks in too short a time. Those need to be addressed, then rev will be fine.

[narcx.3570]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

> > >

> > > I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

> > >

> > > https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

> >

> > 28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

>

> Leadership rune proc CD is far longer than Mirage burst LMAO

 

Well, durp... But maybe don't face tank every single one he does?

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > > > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

> > > >

> > > > I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

> > > >

> > > > https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

> > >

> > > 28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

> >

> > Leadership rune proc CD is far longer than Mirage burst LMAO

>

> Well, durp... But maybe don't face tank every single one he does?

 

Are you actually trying to defend literally the worst match up in this game right now?

[aelska.4609]

Dont give them anything. Nerf everything else. The bidding needs to stop somewhere :)

[Buran.3796]

> @"Toron.4856" said:

> equilibrium still hit 5k in pvp before they removed it.

> youre right tho. 5k additional aoe dmg to the burst without casting time is not much of a big deal. i mean.. it only hit twice as much as 2 fully hitting surge of the mists lul

>

 

Everything hits x2 Surge of the Mist. Rev's staff does almost no damage; the weapon is wielded due their great defensive tools & cc, lost any shadow of relevant damage long time ago. But even whitout damage, the staff is the only weapon that prevents ground Renegade to be played as underwater: without a second set of weapons to swap. The interaction between main hand sword, mace and hammer are just awful, they can't work together... so people uses staff to patch the holes in our utility bar.

[Velimere.7685]

> @"Les.4872" said:

> Would you give it more stability, more condi cleanses, more resistance or some sort of condi to boon skill like a reverse boon corrupt like that meditation on the guardian? Damage-wise revenant is pretty up there but their survivability is sorely lacking.

 

First I'd give [Renewing Wave](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewing_Wave "Renewing Wave") a 1/2-second cast so the Revenant can actually get it off in combat. Second, I'd have [Enchanted Daggers](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enchanted_Daggers "Enchanted Daggers") remove 1 condition per hit for 6 total possible giving the Revenant some actual burst condition removal possible only every 30 seconds. Alternatively, [Crystal Hibernation](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Hibernation "Crystal Hibernatio") could remove a condition every pulse, but that would also be giving more power to Herald over core Revenant and wouldn't be burst condition removal.

 

I'm of the strong opinion that every class should have at least 1 burst condition removal skill while still maintaining viability in PvP given how OP conditions builds are. Getting condi-bombed sucks, and the Revenant just melts to such since its burst condition removal is tied to [Legendary Dwarf Stance](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Dwarf_Stance "Legendary Dwarf Stance") via [soothing Stone](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Stone "Soothing Stone").

 

The reasoning for the Revenant being condi's village bicycle was just how OP it was during its reign as the top power class in _Heart of Thorns_, but that reasoning falls ever so short given just how much the class has been nerfed into the ground. At the very least, it should then have much better condition removal now.

[narcx.3570]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > > > > Why dont u make glint heal cleanse condis after it runs out? A bit like entering Celestial avatar on druid. Sounds op? Honestly... idk lol ever fought a mirage on rev?

> > > > >

> > > > > I don’t get it what do you mean? Lulz

> > > > >

> > > > > https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

> > > >

> > > > 28 stacks of confusion... 2 cover condis... Facet of Chaos off Cooldown... It looks like you're a Leadership Rune proc and a Legend Swap away from being fine, without even having to go staff. If you're using Surging Runes in that matchup or something, I don't really know what to tell you.

> > >

> > > Leadership rune proc CD is far longer than Mirage burst LMAO

> >

> > Well, durp... But maybe don't face tank every single one he does?

>

> Are you actually trying to defend literally the worst match up in this game right now?

 

Wut? It's the easiest and most honest matchup in the game because you shouldn't even try to fight them. :astonished:

 

But in all seriousness, Leadership's cd compared to their burst's cd doesn't really matter because if you don't down him or put him on the 100% defensive within the first 5 seconds of your confrontation you're better off just gtfout of there, and if he chases, all in him while his mobility's on cd and hope for the best. Of course it's the most broken matchup in the history of the game, but Mirage is super op vs everyone. At least it's so broken vs. Rev that you know that you shouldn't even waste your time trying to fight them, which is almost an advantage vs the other classes who still fight the impossible battle hoping that the Mirage is terrible or something.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"Toron.4856" said:

> equilibrium still hit 5k in pvp before they removed it.

> youre right tho. 5k additional aoe dmg to the burst without casting time is not much of a big deal. i mean.. it only hit twice as much as 2 fully hitting surge of the mists lul

>

 

I guess you never hit a full surge of the mists then. On a serious note, SotM still has more raw damage on full hit than the late Equi had, so theoretically with same modifiers if you land all nine impacts and they crit it's more damage.