VaaCrow.3076 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Vault Girl.6792" said: > Here is a screenshot from lfg for T4 fractals, that's something I see everyday. Almost everyone wants a party that consists of 3 BS, one mesmer and one druid. Well, some parties are just looking for dps, but even they aren't really happy when a thief or a necro joins them. Often parties wait for more than 30 minutes just because they don't want to start without a mesmer/druid, though it can be done even without these classes. > In WvW rangers, engineers and thieves sometimes get kicked from squads when there is not enough space for guards and scourges. > 2 years ago it was a problem only for raids (something I don't even want to mention here), and now almost everything is affected. > >  > > What's the point in adding new specializations, when most of them are not needed anyway? > It doesn't look like balance changes can fix this, it's only getting worse. Do you see any solutions to this problem? > > (I apologize for any mistakes, English isn't my first language.) All i see there is people playing how THEY want. Which is what alot of people on this forum use as their rally cry "NO I PLAY HOW I WANT!". That's simply like minded people finding groups to play through content together. If you don't like it form your own groups... i really don't see an issue, every game has some classes that are better at certain parts of the game, GW2 is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chay.7852 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I pug fractals a lot - sometimes have 1-2 friends and/or guildies in the party but event then we have 2-3 random player. When i open a group its mostly "t4-dailys" - whithout any other conditions. Because i know almost all fractals ca be played with all classes. Most of the time said groups (t-4-dailys) gets full in a min. The biggest issue is - imho - that ppl stick with their max dmg rotations and skills and so on.. Not talking about gear but simply changing some utility skills can be very crucial. Im sorry to say.. but since we have guides for everything (which are very cool btw) ppl forgott (or never had to learn what) their classes actually can. Ppl usually dont adapt. Imo the best player is not the one asking for meta and running meta builds pushing the highest dps and what not, but the one who can adapt to his group and certain situations. For example im seeing a lot of guards (dh) in factals - almost noone takes tha WoR (which is a very helpfull skill in almost all old fractals) thieves have something similar and they can blind trash (almost noone brings those skills) - and so on. Even if ppl run only builds they found on qT's or SC's site.. i remember qT - ppl letting ultity slots open to be used for certain skill for certain situations (like said WoR - they even mention it - for guards). I too think its the community whos acting wrong here and not necessary anet. But yeah... maybe its a mix? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheal.8263 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 The problem with tis situation is, the very limited build diversity in this game that comes with the class design roles.... Not all classes are well designed for each job in this same.. some classes are burstign full of group support, while others just suck ballzs at it and provide no real useful group support at all, regardless how you build them, because they simply own no skills, no traits or no specialization effects and gemaplay mechanics, which can balance this lack out for them. A huge problem with classes like the Thief, which is imo the reason, why we shouldn#t have gotten such garbage like the Deadeye that was always only wanted from a minority of players which just cryed for it that they have no stereotypical snipers in this game, when in fact whe have them already with rapidfire spamming rangers, just minus the stealth that people want in combination with this cause they are used to it from other older games. People will always demand for their groups only these builds, with that they will be most effective together, because of the classes providing the needede group support so that the group can be together with the synergizes from those effects most effective. Its by design then natural that selfish designed classes that provide not the neccessary group support tio be most effective together will get permanently the boot. Theres only one way how this will get ignored by selfish designed classes, namely when the sefish designed class is so overpowered in its own DPS, that the massive dps from that class alone outweights the loss of the overall group support significantly, thats the only situation in which such people are willing to ignore having not so much group support, when the dps class in the group is elready enough for the group to be more effective this way together, than to have too much support and lackign in DPS. The problem with this is again.. if you balance the games classes that have no support roles with too much DPS, then the game quickly becomes in all competitive modes again unbalanced... its a devils circle - one, which can be only stopped, if anet seriously would give all game modes own differently balanced skills, so that changes on skilsl and traits don#t affect anymore each other, so that if a class gets its dps for PvE significantly balanced, so that the class will be taken into consideration for the party, that this change won't in return negatively harm PvP and WvW balance then at the same time, just so that people will take you with them for Fractals, Dungeons and Raids in PvE, because your DPS now outshines your lack of group support for you after the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velran.1052 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > There will always be a meta. > We already had that during the dungeon times. There were lots of complaints on the forum from rangers that they got kicked as soon as they joined a group. > > Four of the six lfgs are CMs. When you run with strangers you want to minimize the risk to fail and therefore you want to have the best possible group compisition. > One lfg asks for dps and that could be any profession. > The other lfg already has two dps (guard and necro), so of course it makes sense to ask for support. When you only have dps in your group, everyone has to be really good, or you'll be in downstate most of the time. This. If you have any problem with people playing the way they want you can make your own kitten group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokh.2695 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 we've had this in the game since launch. anyone remember the 10k AP requests for dungeons? It's anoying, but you'll never get rid of it. It's a matter of attitude and I don't think you can change much about that. Sure, if just started with whoever joined and went from there, you might be faster than waiting for "that one perfect player that carries everything". What gets to me the most are parties off dps classes looking for healers, chronos or bannerslaves, also, because you probebly will get blamed for everything that goes wrong in these groups. They don't know how to play the roles that they're asking for but feel free to complain about everything they don't understand. My sugegstions is to put up your own lfg's. ppl will come when you ask for "anything goes" or "all welcome", no one forces you to join a "necros only" group and fight for your right to play guardian or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamelion.9536 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Klipso.8653" said: > > @"Death.9268" said: > > Just create your own group. I'm happy with any class as long as people know what they are doing. The meta is more for speed runs. > > The picture is literally a screenshot of that not being a solution. The screen shot shows groups looking for specific players, and perhaps waiting for 30+ mins till they get what they want. The screen shot does** not** show all the other 5 person groups that have gone into the fractals already, who picked up whomever happened to join their groups. I get what the OP is saying, and it's a very specific reason why I never got into Raids. It can be frustrating to be attached to a certain play type.. for myself I'm a necro thru n thru, and to be excluded/not wanted for certain play types/groups. However, in my case, when I finally do progress to a much higher fractal level than I am now; I expect I may have to also wait 30+ mins to find a group that accepts my play style, rather than get upset that all the groups currently looking dont want what I have to offer. But I also agree that it would be a lot more satisfying if all classes were balanced in such a way as to be needed/wanted to take on every area of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrippa Oculus.3726 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > The guy above said it best. > > > > There will always be a meta. > > /topic > > Agreed. > > If in doubt look at what happens with other games. There are people who will meta-game single player RPGs where what you do affects no one but you - and they have the same attitude - insisting that one build is better than therefore everyone should use it. > > There are games (typically RTS games) where the developers have gone out of their way to make sure every side, or even every unit, is utterly identical and have told players that. So players find the tiniest differences to choose between - one has brighter colours so it's easier to see your units, one has duller colours so it's harder for the enemy to see your units. One has shorter animations so they will move 0.2s sooner and therefore everything you do is faster. One has shorter file paths for their sound effects so it takes less time for the computer to load them...etc. > > Some people always want there to be a 'best' way or a right way to do things. They want to be able to do it faster and better than average. It's similar logic to the superstitious around RNG - that if you do things in a particular way you'll get better results, even if it makes no sense (and in some cases it's actually anything to do with the game - I know someone who always closes her eyes when opening a Black Lion Chest because she says the results are better if she does). And just like RNG superstitions because they want there to be one they will find it, whether it's there or not. > > You can argue till the cows come home that they're wrong and shouldn't do it that way. You can ask for everything to be made absolutely equal and identical so there can't be a best way. And you'll get no where. Or you can leave them to it and play the way you want to play with like-minded people. It's funny that these stories always come from people that don't main one of the underrated classes, you're probably correct in most of your writing, don't get me wrong, but it's easy to write it from your high horse position. But I see you miss (at least) one other option in your last sentence, and that's instead of leaving it how it is and to go with the same tedious meta flow that has been going on for ages now, to spice things up a little bit and introduce a more frequent scheme of balancing updates that change the meta **far** more often. Pretty much like an FotM (Flavour of the Month) kind of idea. Don't worry if your main is not meta this month (maybe even a good incentive to play one of your other alts more frequently), it might be the next ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > What is a BS and what is a KP? Bs is banner warrior i wont say the full name for its not allowed Kp=killproof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timo.1065 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > There will always be a meta. > We already had that during the dungeon times. There were lots of complaints on the forum from rangers that they got kicked as soon as they joined a group. > > Four of the six lfgs are CMs. When you run with strangers you want to minimize the risk to fail and therefore you want to have the best possible group compisition. > One lfg asks for dps and that could be any profession. > The other lfg already has two dps (guard and necro), so of course it makes sense to ask for support. When you only have dps in your group, everyone has to be really good, or you'll be in downstate most of the time. Of course it will be a meta, but why Anet just don't admint that they prepare content fot TRIO. Lets make meta like: 1 heal, 1 tank/buffer, 3 dps Now we have: 1 druid, 1 chrono, 1 BS, 2 dps Give us few healing class, few buff/tank class with lover DPS, and all will be happy. I have work, family and at the evening want to have little entertaiment by playing this game. I have soulbeats, and wheaver for fractals with equired Infiusons. I will play with a pleasure as heal or buffer. But for that I need 2 extra weapon and armor sets with Infusion and proper stats. I really don't have time for this. This is problem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vault Girl.6792 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"VaaCrow.3076" said: > All i see there is people playing how THEY want. Which is what alot of people on this forum use as their rally cry "NO I PLAY HOW I WANT!". That's simply like minded people finding groups to play through content together. If you don't like it form your own groups... i really don't see an issue, every game has some classes that are better at certain parts of the game, GW2 is no different. So you think that 3 builds (not even classes) being significantly better than all other builds isn't an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"Danikat.8537" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > The guy above said it best. > > > > > > There will always be a meta. > > > /topic > > > > Agreed. > > > > If in doubt look at what happens with other games. There are people who will meta-game single player RPGs where what you do affects no one but you - and they have the same attitude - insisting that one build is better than therefore everyone should use it. > > > > There are games (typically RTS games) where the developers have gone out of their way to make sure every side, or even every unit, is utterly identical and have told players that. So players find the tiniest differences to choose between - one has brighter colours so it's easier to see your units, one has duller colours so it's harder for the enemy to see your units. One has shorter animations so they will move 0.2s sooner and therefore everything you do is faster. One has shorter file paths for their sound effects so it takes less time for the computer to load them...etc. > > > > Some people always want there to be a 'best' way or a right way to do things. They want to be able to do it faster and better than average. It's similar logic to the superstitious around RNG - that if you do things in a particular way you'll get better results, even if it makes no sense (and in some cases it's actually anything to do with the game - I know someone who always closes her eyes when opening a Black Lion Chest because she says the results are better if she does). And just like RNG superstitions because they want there to be one they will find it, whether it's there or not. > > > > You can argue till the cows come home that they're wrong and shouldn't do it that way. You can ask for everything to be made absolutely equal and identical so there can't be a best way. And you'll get no where. Or you can leave them to it and play the way you want to play with like-minded people. > > It's funny that these stories always come from people that don't main one of the underrated classes, you're probably correct in most of your writing, don't get me wrong, but it's easy to write it from your high horse position. > > But I see you miss (at least) one other option in your last sentence, and that's instead of leaving it how it is and to go with the same tedious meta flow that has been going on for ages now, to spice things up a little bit and introduce a more frequent scheme of balancing updates that change the meta **far** more often. Pretty much like an FotM (Flavour of the Month) kind of idea. Don't worry if your main is not meta this month (maybe even a good incentive to play one of your other alts more frequently), it might be the next ... Believe it or not I have no idea if my main character is currently one of the underrated classes or not. Maybe you can tell me? She's a condition ranger/druid - rabid/sinister equipment, shortbow + sword/torch with the condition glyph (can't remember the name), spike trap and frost spirit. So more ranger than druid, I just use it for the glyph and the extra heal skills (I call F5 my panic button). But the reason I don't know is because I don't care. I don't follow the meta, and never attempt to join groups asking for specific builds or professions. As I said earlier I always join groups that say everyone is welcome or make my own if I don't see one. Or play with my guild who let anyone join in with anything. So no, this isn't me saying I'm fine with the current meta because it works for what I want to play and everyone else should conform to my standards. It's me saying I've learned from experience over the years that you'll never change those peoples minds and get them to accept more professions any more than you'll get people who don't like that to follow the meta and play what they're told to play. So IMO the only sensible option is for the two groups to play separately, so everyone can do what they want. I don't understand how changing the meta more frequently achieves anything except making it harder to follow. I suppose if you did it enough there would be more builds accepted because people wouldn't be able to keep up so some would be asking for older favourites while some were looking for the new ones. But there would still be people whose characters aren't deemed acceptable and telling them to wait until next month because maybe then they'll be allowed in doesn't seem like a great solution to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vault Girl.6792 Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 Just a clarification: I do not have problems finding a group, and I know where to find the button for making my own. I don't have problems with people playing how they want either. And it's okay when some classes are A BIT better than others. The problem is, these 3 builds are able to provide way more support than other builds/classes can, that's exactly why so many people want them. So either you play BS/chrono/druid, or your group isn't really efficient. Ideally, all classes should be equally useful, and the current situation is far from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwilightSoul.9048 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 The issue is that more and more people are getting infected by the Raid Meta Virus that forces them to not just clear content but to clear it as fast as possible. The Raid Meta isn't meant to be able to clear a raid, it is supposed to clear a Raid as fast as possible. And slowly but surely the Virus has infected Fractals as well, it's not good enough anymore to clear a fractal without much effort, now you have to clear it as fast as possible. That Virus aside, it's not all a community issue, the current available build diversity does not quite provide us with many options to replace Druid and Chronomancer without sacrificing an enormous amount of Group Efficiency. Some High Tier Fractals are disproportionally hard to beat without a dedicated healer and not having a Chronomancer can sometimes slow down a group by many many minutes. And we can't really replace Druid and Chrono very well. Ventari Revenant is a decent option over Druid but doesn't provide nearly as much might and for Chrono there is absolutely no reasonable replacement, no other class can provide that amount of Boons especially Quickness (And Alacrity which isn't a boon but a Buff). So for ArenaNet the goal should be to allow more classes to pick up support roles like Boonshare and Healer and maybe even nerf the current Chronomancer as he is pretty much irreplacable right now, which is a good sign that he might be too good at what he does. And for us as a Community the goal should be to not just copy whatever we see others doing - just because some raidgroups are trying to speedrun everything, doesn't mean you have to do that too. You can easily clear every Fractal with three Power Reapers + Chrono + Druid within a reasonable time and there are many other DPS Builds that are "good enough". Unfortunatly, of course, none can match the top DPS Builds - which is another balancing issue. It's okay for a arguably *hard-to-play* class like Elementalist to have top dps but it shouldn't be so far ahead of other builds that it basically invalidates all other DPS Builds and at the same time all other DPS Builds should be somewhat in-line with their DPS or provide something else of value to make up for slightly lower DPS. Values like "can tank a lot" are hard to measure so it's hard to say what kind of DPS Power Reaper should reach in order to be in-line with other DPS Builds, I think Power Reaper is pretty good at what he does considering he's probably the tankiest spec in the game but other DPS Builds lag behind even Power Reaper. Balancing is hard, I know that, but I hope ArenaNet realizes the importance of Build Diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trise.2865 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Are you sure that's the problem highlighted here? Look again. You see all those lfg posts saying "meta only" or using gibberish acronyms? they're STILL WAITING. They're sitting around doing nothing, hoping to find a perfect team instead of playing the game. Look at who is NOT waiting around to play. Do you see any "lfg-any" groups waiting around to fill? Nope, not a one. Are there none being made? or are they filling up INSTANTLY and are ALREADY PLAYING? Let them wait. Enjoy your game. F the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Mist.2973 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I believe this is a community problem, but it does stem from the game mechanics. As some other people have said, when it comes to Fractals and Raids, Anet have ham-fisted a pseudo-trinity combat system into a game that was never designed to cater for it in the first place. This forces players to take a healer and tank into their groups when they previously didn't need to, thus limiting the amount of spaces available to everyone else. This means that instead of having 5 spaces in a group, you now have 3 because the perception is that you always need to have a healer (druid) and a tank (chrono). The other main issue is the way the content is the lack of content and the way it is set-up. Most PvE players who have been around for awhile have done each fractal countless times to the point where it's no longer fun for them. So why do they do it? For the rewards. T4 daily fractals are very efficient gold farming activities, and are a good way of acquiring acended gear for your alts inbetween raids. So even though players are very bored with them, they do them every day for the rewards. We used to do the exact same thing in WoW with heroics. On days where you weren't raiding, you would log in, do your dailies and then log off again. Obviously if you are in this scenario you want to get through the daily content as fast as possible, which in this case means running with the best possible team comp. How do we solve this problem? The devs can't introduce new content fast enough to keep up with the players, so there would need to be another way of stopping people farming t4 fractals out of boredom purely for the rewards. You could take away the raid lock and reset mechanic so that teams could complete the same raid encounters multiple times each week. Of course, then you would still have to limit the amount of rewards players got from raids, meaning you would be expecting players to kill raid bosses with no rewards. Some might be ok with this if they were still learning the mechanics, but it would also drive a lot of veterans away from raiding. Either way it doesn't fix the problem of the trinity system in a game that was never designed for it, but I have a feeling that trying to change it now would be too big of a task to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Miss zerker meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Chronos aren't taken to 5-mans for tanking, they are taken for their overpowered support kit. With regard to the trinity, introducing dedicated healers was one of the best things that could happen to GW2, since encounter design was restricted to a primitive level while everyone needed to be capable of looking after himself. If done right, healers wouldn't be a restriction, because we already have four classes that can easily turn into healers. It's just a problem when one class (again) has a severely overpowered array of additional tools (druid) and others are very clumsy to play (e.g. rev). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said: > I believe this is a community problem, but it does stem from the game mechanics. As some other people have said, when it comes to Fractals and Raids, Anet have ham-fisted a pseudo-trinity combat system into a game that was never designed to cater for it in the first place. This forces players to take a healer and tank into their groups when they previously didn't need to, thus limiting the amount of spaces available to everyone else. This means that instead of having 5 spaces in a group, you now have 3 because the perception is that you always need to have a healer (druid) and a tank (chrono). > > The other main issue is the way the content is the lack of content and the way it is set-up. Most PvE players who have been around for awhile have done each fractal countless times to the point where it's no longer fun for them. So why do they do it? For the rewards. T4 daily fractals are very efficient gold farming activities, and are a good way of acquiring acended gear for your alts inbetween raids. So even though players are very bored with them, they do them every day for the rewards. We used to do the exact same thing in WoW with heroics. On days where you weren't raiding, you would log in, do your dailies and then log off again. Obviously if you are in this scenario you want to get through the daily content as fast as possible, which in this case means running with the best possible team comp. > > How do we solve this problem? The devs can't introduce new content fast enough to keep up with the players, so there would need to be another way of stopping people farming t4 fractals out of boredom purely for the rewards. You could take away the raid lock and reset mechanic so that teams could complete the same raid encounters multiple times each week. Of course, then you would still have to limit the amount of rewards players got from raids, meaning you would be expecting players to kill raid bosses with no rewards. Some might be ok with this if they were still learning the mechanics, but it would also drive a lot of veterans away from raiding. Either way it doesn't fix the problem of the trinity system in a game that was never designed for it, but I have a feeling that trying to change it now would be too big of a task to manage. This guy/gal gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > Chronos aren't taken to 5-mans for tanking, they are taken for their overpowered support kit. With regard to the trinity, introducing dedicated healers was one of the best things that could happen to GW2, since encounter design was restricted to a primitive level while everyone needed to be capable of looking after himself. If done right, healers wouldn't be a restriction, because we already have four classes that can easily turn into healers. It's just a problem when one class (again) has a severely overpowered array of additional tools (druid) and others are very clumsy to play (e.g. rev). Just nope. Adding Holy-Trinity-Elements to any AMMORPG is always a bad idea. In action-based games, people are supposed to carry their own weight and learn their respective class- and boss/game-mechanics. People are supposed to be able of looking after themselves and they are also supposed to mitigate and avoid damage by dodging and using so called "invincibility frames". That's how such games are supposed to work. Adding dedicated Healers to such a scenario always results in a loss of class- and/or build-diversity since the "Holy Trinity" will always be enforced and people will almost always pick that concept up, turning any game into your typical Spank-'n-Tank-playstyle. I also made that experience in other AMMORPGs, most notably TERA and Blade & Soul. Not only does this lead to the content (in a sense) being dumbed down, but also to unfair game-design since the developers have to take such party-setups into consideration when designing content, focussing on them in terms of creating difficulty, thus new content becomes particularly harder to beat for parties without dedicated Healers. Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer the game without overpowered druids. If I fail, I should fail and learn from fails instead of having a pocket-druid healing me up, disregarding certain game-mechanics. Maybe ANet feels the same way, not adding similar bollocks with PoF (though PoF certainly has other problems in regard of PvP). I actually like the concept of barrier as a kind of invincibility frame instead of having overpowered healing-capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Death.9268" said: > Just create your own group. I'm happy with any class as long as people know what they are doing. The meta is more for speed runs. Yeah I was just about to suggest that. I get bored with fractals pretty quickly, but it had been awhile since I'd done any so I've been getting back into them lately. If the groups in LFG are all either asking for a specific class, doing CMs, or asking for experienced players I just pass on those groups and list my own. Since I'm not asking for anything specific, my group usually fills up quickly while the rest wait for the stars to align. I guess I'd just rather play the game in a sub-optimal group. I don't consider myself an experienced fractal player as I haven't done CMs or even completed every fractal on T4. And I've never been interested in the meta unless it also happens to be the class/spec I like (Yes, I will fractal as mirage and not chrono! ). As I see it, I'm neither experienced nor willing to fill the specific role they're asking for. It would be inconsiderate of me to join those groups. So that works for me and I expect it works for many others, but the question the OP asks is: Does this indicate a balance issue? I would tend to agree that it does. How else to interpret the fact that high-end fractal groups routinely utilize compositions that feature the same classes and will in fact wait in LFG for a significant amount of time to avoid taking less desirable options? The next question is: Is this purely a result of class design? It seems to me that the new fractals are more difficult. However, they're also, well, new! Players are still familiarizing themselves with the mechanics (I certainly haven't done the two newest fractals more than a couple of times so far!) at this point and I have expectation that the success rate will improve over time as a result. It's also entirely possible that the encounters themselves are over-tuned and, if past is prologue, may be adjusted. There's also another angle to consider. While this game shouldn't feature "the trinity", I think there's room to have some encounters where it's a viable strategy to use a healer (why else even have a druid spec?) or even a "tank" of sorts (although tanking only works in this game when they intentionally design transparent threat mechanics such as "go after the guy with the most toughness"). The catch is that "viable" should not translate into "mandatory". Well, that's about as nuanced as I'm going to get for now! Let's condense that down, shall we? TL;DR: I agree that there's a balance issue here, but I'm taking a wait and see approach. They could resolve this issue by adjusting encounter design or it may resolve itself as players become more familiar with the mechanics. Ultimately, I'm not convinced that these classes are strictly necessary and will remain so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blambidy.3216 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I agree. I wish this game gave purpose for each class to be NEEDED for raids and fractals. But it’s always a few classes that get crossed out cause supposedly some other class dps is better. I do wish the game had balancing so all classes dps were the same in effect. And wish all classes had same condi bench marks as everyone else. But since this game isn’t like the traditional triangle, I guess it’s hard to make all classes balanced. I also agree what would be the purpose to add elites if not all elites can be used for fractals and raids. However since all classes work for fractals and raids it’s good. But the fact that community goes by stats and this stat says, this dps can do better, that’s what should change. Also if I’m wrong correct me. If you can have more then just 10 people in raids it would also probably diminish the process of wanting certain classes over the other. Instead of 10 say 15 or 20. And if it was that many, numb up the raid bosses. Noticing other raids in mmos there’s flooded players in the game. But in gw2 there’s few. If we could have more players in raids it would probably stop that we need this class. But to compensate so we don’t speed through raids. Bump up the life of the bosses and their attack dps. However I will say make your own team. And yours will probably be flooded since no requirements. What these guys are doing is probably speeding through fractals then just playing it. So most likely they just want the gold they just play with the enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mea.5491 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 And this is exactly why I think the best thing in this game is open world PvE. No one can kick me out of the map for being a Celestial Engineer. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blambidy.3216 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Mea.5491" said: > And this is exactly why I think the best thing in this game is open world PvE. No one can kick me out of the map for being a Celestial Engineer. :P Pve is good but not every time is a good meta. So that’s why we head other places lol. If pve had fractals in it. And if pve has pvp in the maps then I’ll consider converting to just pve. Agreed though pve is best that no one can kick you out the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malisivo.5264 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 > @"Vault Girl.6792" said: > Just a clarification: I do not have problems finding a group, and I know where to find the button for making my own. > I don't have problems with people playing how they want either. And it's okay when some classes are A BIT better than others. > > The problem is, these 3 builds are able to provide way more support than other builds/classes can, that's exactly why so many people want them. So either you play BS/chrono/druid, or your group isn't really efficient. Ideally, all classes should be equally useful, and the current situation is far from that. But, you see, that is why people are saying to form your own group. "Efficiency" isn't the problem unless you consider it a problem. Unless you believe that a good experience is determined by the perfect combination of classes. Unless you find it cumbersome to play with people who truly want to play with you. If you are allowing these advertisements to alter the way you play, then what's the point of being able to theorycraft your own build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenta.2953 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 considering my main characters are a Knight Soulbeast (power, prec, toughness) a Soldier/Knight Reaper (Power, Prec, Tough, Vit) and a Marauder Deadeye(power,prec,ferocity,vit) it really does suck that so few builds are viable..... GW2 used to be fun, bring what build u want. and if we die, keep trying cause its fun to play (anyone remember Ascalon Catacombs Underwear runs? where we keep running to the boss until we grind him down. usually ending up with all our armor broken) but now...if you don't meet the requriement of this level dps or this specific class/armor set up. you'll be lucky to participate..... durable builds.....suffer =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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