Are changes to a baseline function of BLChests fair without communication?

[Ayakaru.6583]

Last weekend (January 5th-8th) there was a sale; 10 black keys with 2 scraps (can be bought twice) which essentially meant: you pay the same for the keys, but you get +2 guaranteed scraps.

The following tuesday is a big patch that changed the contents of the black lion chests with more than a minute transcencion.

We essentially went from the wintersday gift, to the guaranteed statuette, guaranteed raptor, and 2 items. Thats almost a doubling in value.

If anet had properly communicated this change was a-comming, I doubt anyone would've opened the 10-20 chests of that weekend. they would've waited 2 days until after the patch.

 

So after this, I mailed with Anet (of course I had little to no expectation of an actual retribution, but I wanted to try, if only for the sake of making it heard, nonetheless).

Anet said that they agreed it was a precarious situation, but they didn't want to rectify it for anyone because such a large chunk of the playerbase was affected.

But they did recommend making a topic on the matter because if more people voice their concerns, the devs can act upon our wishes. So hence, I am making this topic.

 

It is my opinion that when you buy a lottery ticket, the value should be communicated properly. As it stands now, 2 people bought a lottery ticket for 125 gems. one person scratches the ticket during the weekend, when the jackpot is a christmas gift, and the second person scratches it two days later, when suddenly the entire lottery system has changed. To me, it's cause for paranoia. I bought the keys wanting to support anet with my money, but then they repay me with doubling the base-line value two days after the sale event, without any form of warning whatsoever.

 

tldr;

Anet has a BL-Key sale, which many people used. Immediately afterwards, anet doubles the value of the BL-chests. This whole course of events occured without any form of communication.

 

so, what's your opinion, was it fair what anet did, or was it a bad move?

disclaimer; I tried my best to formulate the poll nuanced, but of course I am biased on the poll. (your votes are anonymous)

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

There are sales on Black Lion Keys, occasionally. The contents of Black Lion Chests changes periodically; sometimes it is personally perceived as better, sometimes as worse.

 

Whenever I purchase Keys, I usually save 1 or 2 (or more) for the next iteration, just in case. I'm sure I am not alone. /shrug

 

Whether the inclusion of Black Lion Statuettes came before or after a sale, I think, on the whole, it was a feature oft-requested, and overall a good move on ArenaNet's part.

 

Of course, YMMV.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

I think unfair isn't the right word... but its poor form

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> I think unfair isn't the right word... but its poor form

 

that's perhaps a better wording, agreed, sadly I can't change it anymore

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about.

 

I always find this to be an odd stance to take. Yes they need to make money, and yes this is how business works. HOWEVER, anyone who has done any kind of PR or business with the public knows that the 1 thing that is sure to drive customers away is shady practices and lack of communication. Customers aren't stupid, and greedy practices will be discovered and punished, particularly when it comes to video games. More than once in recent times a gaming company has tried to pull the wool over customer's eyes only to have it thrown back in their face. Just look at what happened to Star Wars Battlefront 2. The devs said that they didn't put in cosmetics like different coloured character skins into their loot boxes and that they weren't planning to put them into the game at all, for "canon" reasons. And guess what? Some players got into the game files and found a load of fully designed and working cosmetic options that were coded into the game, yet locked away from the playerbase.

 

EA aren't the only ones getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar either. last November Activision-Blizzard got caught out in Destiny 2 when players discovered that there was hidden exp scaling in the game (bearing in mind that in Destiny 2 you get a loot box every time you fill the exp bar) which would give you less actual exp than it told you it was giving, and the longer you played in a given session, the less exp you would get, to the point where if you played for long enough you would get just 4% of the amount of exp you should have gotten. The devs didn't tell the players this and only admitted to it and changed it after the community had discovered it for themselves.

 

I would like to think that Anet don't try and pull the same kind of stunt in GW2 and that they respect their players enough to be honest with them, but I know that's a pretty forlorn hope.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I voted No. Gambling is gambling, and like said by another poster in an earlier reply above, content of chest maybe be good for one and bad for another one. It is therefore impossible to say that one is better than the other. It entirely depends on what we need.

 

Personally, I liked the Wintersday ones better, thanks to the junks that had prices between 1 gold up to 5 gold upon selling. I was able to make lot of money with those, what is no more the case with the new contents.

 

Now a side note to a previous reply:

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about.

 

Of course that's all they care about, that's their only money income. Don't forget that the game is cost free to play. Money has to come in, in one way or another, otherwise they can't keep it alive.

I find this concept very good because players who can afford to invest money at BLT do so, bringing money to Anet, what is needed. On the other hand, those who cannot afford spending money in hobbies, have a cost free game to play, and that's nice for them.

[Ashen.2907]

You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

[Oglaf.1074]

Loot Box Gambling is like the movie _WarGames_:

 

The only way to win is not to play.

 

There is no point in trying to argue that Anet should be more "fair" towards players when a system like it is inherently extremely exploitative and predatory to begin with. The only way Anet could be "fair" on this subject would be to axe BLCs entirely and shift focus towards direct, non-gambling options for purchasing premium content.

 

But we know they are not as long as people keep buying keys in the hopes that Anet will be more "fair". They won't. Stop buying keys.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> I voted No. Gambling is gambling, and like said by another poster in an earlier reply above, content of chest maybe be good for one and bad for another one. It is therefore impossible to say that one is better than the other. It entirely depends on what we need.

>

> Personally, I liked the Wintersday ones better, thanks to the junks that had prices between 1 gold up to 5 gold upon selling. I was able to make lot of money with those, what is no more the case with the new contents.

>

> Now a side note to a previous reply:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about.

>

> Of course that's all they care about, that's their only money income. Don't forget that the game is cost free to play. Money has to come in, in one way or another, otherwise they can't keep it alive.

> I find this concept very good because players who can afford to invest money at BLT do so, bringing money to Anet, what is needed. On the other hand, those who cannot afford spending money in hobbies, have a cost free game to play, and that's nice for them.

 

Nobody is denying that some form of monetisation (in this case loot boxes) are necessary for the upkeep of the game in order for the rest of the game to be free. What we are debating is whether Anet should have given us more notice before changing the contents of the loot boxes. I haven't looked into the legal side of it but I'm willing to bet there is a clause in the Terms and Conditions that states Anet can change the contents of the loot boxes without warning, but I still think it is poor business practice to do this and could cause players to start distrusting the company if it happens too often.

[Malediktus.9250]

Never open chests before a release patch unless you want something that might be removed next.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

 

No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

>

> No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

 

So what.

 

We were told what was in the boxes, purchase decisions were made based on that. Anet delivered what was promised.

 

Anyone who didnt know that the content of the chests would eventually be changed has not been paying attention.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

> >

> > No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

>

> So what.

>

> We were told what was in the boxes, purchase decisions were made based on that. Anet delivered what was promised.

>

> Anyone who didnt know that the content of the chests would eventually be changed has not been paying attention.

 

Looooooooololol. You're acting like people are dumb, and think nothing drops from chest.

 

Please, send us a link pre-tuesday that hints we were getting a change for the guaranteed drops. Since you have some-kind-of insider knowledge that it was going to drastically change.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

> > >

> > > No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

> >

> > So what.

> >

> > We were told what was in the boxes, purchase decisions were made based on that. Anet delivered what was promised.

> >

> > Anyone who didnt know that the content of the chests would eventually be changed has not been paying attention.

>

> Looooooooololol. You're acting like people are dumb, and think nothing drops from chest.

>

> Please, send us a link pre-tuesday that hints we were getting a change for the guaranteed drops. Since you have some-kind-of insider knowledge that it was going to drastically change.

 

Doesnt matter if the chest contents were going to change, when they would change, or how they would change.

 

The buyer wanted what was advertised as being in the chest at the time he used his keys. He got what he wanted.

 

No links needed that the chest contents would change, they do so regularly. The chests today do not contain what they did before tuesday. The buyer wanted what they contained prior to tuesday or he would not have used his keys to acquire the contents listed before tuesday.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

> > > >

> > > > No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

> > >

> > > So what.

> > >

> > > We were told what was in the boxes, purchase decisions were made based on that. Anet delivered what was promised.

> > >

> > > Anyone who didnt know that the content of the chests would eventually be changed has not been paying attention.

> >

> > Looooooooololol. You're acting like people are dumb, and think nothing drops from chest.

> >

> > Please, send us a link pre-tuesday that hints we were getting a change for the guaranteed drops. Since you have some-kind-of insider knowledge that it was going to drastically change.

>

> Doesnt matter if the chest contents were going to change, when they would change, or how they would change.

>

> The buyer wanted what was advertised as being in the chest at the time he used his keys. He got what he wanted.

>

> No links needed that the chest contents would change, they do so regularly. The chests today do not contain what they did before tuesday. The buyer wanted what they contained prior to tuesday or he would not have used his keys to acquire the contents listed before tuesday.

 

You're basically seeing the technicality of it, which means you didn't buy the keys and you really don't care.

Anet advertised a key sale with the knowledge that the chest will change.

They add the change a week later, AFTER the sale.

That is the problem. Instead of doing at the same time as the change, they chose the more greedy path. Its a mild case of mount gate.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

>

> No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

 

If they had, chances are that many fewer would have purchased pre-patch which would have defeated the purpose of the sale. I understand your frustration, but I strongly disagree that this was unfair on Anet's part. You got what was (generally) expected at the time that you made your purchase.

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

Why is that any different than you opening 10 chests when PoF launch only to get way better rewards in Halloween/Wintersday?

Opening a chest is always a risk/reward thing where the time when you open the chests matters.

That's also why i don't buy keys.

[Ayakaru.6583]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

> >

> > No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

>

> If they had, chances are that many fewer would have purchased pre-patch which would have defeated the purpose of the sale. I understand your frustration, but I strongly disagree that this was unfair on Anet's part. You got what was (generally) expected at the time that you made your purchase.

>

 

equally chances many more would have bought them with the knowledge that the chests were gonna change. I am of the opinion the value of the chests increased drastically, so if you knew it ahead of time, buying 20 keys and then opening them 2 days later would have been a VERY profitable deal.

(ps, we already agreed unfair wasn't the right word, more.. 'poorly timed')

[Lilyanna.9361]

Y'all should now that items change out of the BLC every 1-3 month interval.

 

It is legit not that hard of a pattern to keep up on. Some people are more wary and aware of it than others, so at the end of the day it ain't Anet's fault, it's y'all fault for not paying attention to their patterns.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about.

 

Wow .. yes, all companies that aim to make money are based on greed. That's ... something.

[Seera.5916]

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > You bought keys with full knowledge of their potential contents. You received the known content. You now complain about getting what you were told you would be getting. There is some unfairness going on bere but it isnt Anet.

> > >

> > > No one told us about the statuettes, or a change. But continue

> >

> > So what.

> >

> > We were told what was in the boxes, purchase decisions were made based on that. Anet delivered what was promised.

> >

> > Anyone who didnt know that the content of the chests would eventually be changed has not been paying attention.

>

> Looooooooololol. You're acting like people are dumb, and think nothing drops from chest.

>

> Please, send us a link pre-tuesday that hints we were getting a change for the guaranteed drops. Since you have some-kind-of insider knowledge that it was going to drastically change.

 

Ashen wasn't saying that the chests were going to change when they changed. Just that if you hadn't caught on that chest contents do change at times, you had not been paying attention to the last few times they changed. As they have changed what's in them at least 4 other times since they moved to having a Seasonal slot. That's what Ashen was referring to.

 

Granted I think everyone knows that, but are angry at the timing of the change and what the change was.

[Swoll.1483]

It is extremely deceptive of them, and I'm requesting a refund through my CC (little good it will do). If/when that fails, I've resolved to never spend another dime in their store. I've always been of the mind if you like the game you should support it but after being taken advantage of in this regard I have no interest in supporting the company further.

 

I would also like to point out that I love this game, I feel it is the best on the market, and I am a fanboy in every sense of the word. But this store 'move' was extremely disheartening to me over all and I'm just sad about it.

[Glacial.9516]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Statuette change were a snap one and not planned or part of some conspiracy to make players feel cheated. I do agree with the reply suggesting that its bad form to have a sale just before a sudden and impactful change is made to Black lion chests. However I also think if Anet had the statuettes and the scrap bundle planned and ready to go then they would have coordinated them together and seen many additional keys purchased. A lot of 'ifs' I know, but I'm not willing to throw rocks when it sounds like even Anet realizes it wasn't the best of decisions.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

So ANet's alternatives are:

* Don't make the change, so it's "more fair"

* Announce the change first, cutting into their usual sales. (And it would still be "unfair" to the people who bought before the announcement.)

* Do what they usually do: sometimes offer discounts, sometimes change the contents, sometimes change the contents to be worth more to some people.

 

I don't see a problem with any of the three. I prefer the third choice because it's more fun for me, but your mileage probably varies.

 

PS not everyone thinks that this month's chests are more valuable than the ones we had during Halloween. Some people preferred that dyes dropped less frequently, tickets dropped more frequently, and, while the drop rates are ridiculous, they liked that the stuff that did (barely) drop was worth something (to them) if/when it did. So it's not a "fact" that the value of BL chests doubled; all we can safely say is that the contents are notably different.