Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > > What class were you running? > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said: > I only play Mesmer in Fractals as I don't have any other class with enough AR. > > Also, to address another post, there were no requirement on weapons/gear/skills/etc. Nothing was said at all until I switched for 1 fight that we had continuously wiped on. It was clearly not a fight where melee was working out, so I put on something that gave me range. After yet another wipe. I was asked and then kicked. Ah. This is sort of a non-classic, "LF more were from Mars; LFGs were from Venus" situation. They had certain reasonable expectations & you had certain (also reasonable) expectations, but they weren't the same. Your solution to wiping is to get clear of some of the heat to live longer; their solution was to use more support to stay alive longer. GS fit your solution; it didn't fit theirs. And rather than discuss things (before|during|after), they /kicked. I'm sorry this happened but I still don't see how it's relevant to the issue of 3rd party gear checkers. The issue in this example was (lack of) communication and unspoken assumptions about what people would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > That said, if people petitioned ANet to change the policy, and ANet agreed, then it wouldnt be an issue. But as long as dishonest people choose to go onto someone else's property and flaunt the owners' set rules there will be a drain on resources. > > You keep saying that but cannot give one example of how a gear check tool causes harm to other players. It simply doesn't. Anet has a problem with 3rd party tools in general, not because a gear check tool would cause any harm. They are tolerating dps meters now, because those do no harm either. It won't take long and gear check tools will be tolerated too. I keep saying it because it is factually correct. A payroll dollar spent on remedial action cannot be spent on something else. The game belongs to ANet. They set the rules, no differently in essence than your grandmother getting to decide what the rules for acceptable behavior are in her home. We agree to abide by those rules. The company ends up having to spend money enforcing those rules because some players are dishonest. If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. The harm that the player base as a whole suffers is lessened development of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamwolf.7423 Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 > > I'm sorry this happened but I still don't see how it's relevant to the issue of 3rd party gear checkers. The issue in this example was (lack of) communication and unspoken assumptions about what people would do. > It isn't, it's has nothing to do with my point about gear checkers or DPS meters. It was merely pointing out that I'm used to dealing with toxic players. And since questions were asked to clarify the circumstances, I elaborated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > I keep saying it because it is factually correct. A payroll dollar spent on remedial action cannot be spent on something else. > > The game belongs to ANet. They set the rules, no differently in essence than your grandmother getting to decide what the rules for acceptable behavior are in her home. We agree to abide by those rules. The company ends up having to spend money enforcing those rules because some players are dishonest. If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. The harm that the player base as a whole suffers is lessened development of the game. Why do I get the impression that people these days think that repeating the same thing over and over makes it eventually true? According to many people here on the forums and Cynz.9437 in this thread, Anet does not ban people who got reported for using a gear check tool. The time they might spend investigating is lost because of the people who send in reports about something that cannot be proven. The rule "no gear check" cannot be enforced, and Anet knows, and obviously this process doesn't get in the way of developing the game. Let's say one rule in your grandmother's house is for guests to sit on the toilet when they have to visit the bathroom. However, for some reason you feel that it's "unmanly" to sit down and you much prefer to do your business standing. You clean up the inevitable mess afterwards, and think nobody will ever know. Unfortunately, you forget to put down the lid, and the next person who enters the bathroom, your brother, notices immediately and concludes that you, the person who was in the bathroom right before him, must be the perp. And, since this is what siblings do, he reports you to your grandmother. Your grandmother shames you in front of your family and this becomes a slightly uncomfortable scene. Did you cause any harm by breaking the rule? Or was it your brother who stirred things up by reporting you? I suggest people spend more time minding their own business instead of reporting players who do no harm. You are not calling the police when you see someone jaywalking without causing any hinderence or harm, do you? And police don't spend time and resources to enforce the "no jaywalking" rule either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockheart.4312 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Welcome to the other edge of the sword of "massive stat and weapon diversity options". There are optimal builds, acceptable builds, and builds that will do so poor performance that regardless of how "great of a person" the player is, the group will be carrying them through difficult content. Toxic works both ways in this case. While being kicked without reason is a shitty thing to have happen, its not without its merits either. You are running T4 content, it is expected that you know what to do and what parties expect. Trying to show up in a snowflake build will sometimes get punished. Luckily this is a social game and you can infact, form your own groups. Be the change you want to see rather than demand others change for you. Unless of course the crux of the situation is that you expect to be carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > The rule "no gear check" cannot be enforced Tell that to Bhagawan. > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > That said, if people petitioned ANet to change the policy, and ANet agreed, then it wouldnt be an issue. But as long as dishonest people choose to go onto someone else's property and flaunt the owners' set rules there will be a drain on resources. > > You keep saying that but cannot give one example of how a gear check tool causes harm to other players. It's one of the factors in player toxicity. Gear checkers do not actually cause the toxicity, that's true, but they are tools that empower those with already toxic tendencies. And that, in turn, harms the community as a whole. There's a reason why dps meters are allowed and gear checkers are not, even though at the beginning the most popular meter programs had both functionalities included. There's also a reason why author of one of those programs got permabanned while author of the other one wasn't. So, apparently, Anet disagrees with you on it being no issue and causing no harm. > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said: > I only play Mesmer in Fractals as I don't have any other class with enough AR. > > Also, to address another post, there were no requirement on weapons/gear/skills/etc. Nothing was said at all until I switched for 1 fight that we had continuously wiped on. It was clearly not a fight where melee was working out, so I put on something that gave me range. After yet another wipe. I was asked and then kicked. I thought it might have been a mesmer. You see, the problem is that currently there are only a few good dps options for mesmer, and, as far as i know, none of them utilizes gs at all. Additionally, usually people do not even expect mesmer to dps - what they expect is support. And here GS is also useless. So, from their point of view it was as if they asked for a druid, expected a healer, and got a bearbow. Yes, they should have probably communicated better. And as for "no requirements in lfg" - that's what i was saying in some other threads. Originally, the "everything goes" groups were the default and elitist/high requirement ones were clearly labeled. Nowadays, it's the meta groups that are the LFG default and the casual ones that need to be labeled. We can blame it on the rise of elitist behaviour caused by introducing raids to the game, and increasing difficulty in fractals, but also on the fact that fractals nowadays _are_ more difficult (especially the new ones), and thus _do_ require more from the players. Might be also a result of more and more of casual players simply dropping off that content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > So, who got harmed? > > > > ANet and the player base. > > Can you maybe give an example when and how exactly someone got harmed by another player using a gear check tool? (you can invent a theoretical scenario if you like, for the sake of it) > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > You have a broad definition of what a hacker and cheater is. You probably think that people who used dps meters before Anet eventually started tolerating them were cheaters and hackers. I don't share that definition and don't see any harm done by gear checks. It certainly didn't harm you, otherwise you would have stopped playing with these guys. So who got harmed? > > > > By that logic, the rules and laws are not necessary. In Germany, for example, you are not allowed to posses fire arms without permission. By your logic, it is ok, if everyone goes and buys guns. No harm done alone from possessing them, right? Why would we need such law on first place? Why do we need rules on first place. Why are there ToS etc.? > > Now, don't you think that is quite a far-fetched comparison? Since you are German, you are not even bound the ToS. Comparing it with actual law is not useful here. Actually it is.. The laws like this are there to prevent even possibility of abuse of certain tools (e.g. guns). So is with gear checker (and stats checked for that matter) - in certain cases it can be abused. Just because you don't doesn't mean other don't. Would you be ok, if i was able to check all your whatsapp history and account info, for example? No harm is done because of checking alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > Actually it is.. The laws like this are there to prevent even possibility of abuse of certain tools (e.g. guns). So is with gear checker (and stats checked for that matter) - in certain cases it can be abused. Just because you don't doesn't mean other don't. Would you be ok, if i was able to check all your whatsapp history and account info, for example? No harm is done because of checking alone. Ok, the Terms of Service/Use are no law. They haven't been created to protect your privacy or players, they protect the company's interests, which is fine. The ToS don't need paragraphs for data protection because that is already covered by law. If people could get your email address or IP address by using a tool in this game, Anet would be in big trouble. They have to protect these personal data by law. They do not have to protect data of your damage or gear, because by law, this is not personal data. They decided to tolerate access of dps data. They could not do that if this was personal data because --> law. What kind of gear you are wearing is no personal data in the same way. If Anet decided to tolerate gear check tools, no law would keep them from doing it. They could decide to publish all that stuff on a webpage, like other publishers do and there's nothing you could do about it. Account information, payment data or WhatsApp messages, in contrary, are personal data protected by law. It's such a sensible data that not even every employee has access to. Admins cannot simply check how much gems you bought and what your credit card number is. Would I be ok if you were able to check my whatsApp history or account info? Certainly not, this is personal data that needs to be protected. Would I be ok if Anet published my characters' gear? Sure, why not, it's not personal data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > Actually it is.. The laws like this are there to prevent even possibility of abuse of certain tools (e.g. guns). So is with gear checker (and stats checked for that matter) - in certain cases it can be abused. Just because you don't doesn't mean other don't. Would you be ok, if i was able to check all your whatsapp history and account info, for example? No harm is done because of checking alone. > > Ok, the Terms of Service/Use are no law. They haven't been created to protect your privacy or players, they protect the company's interests, which is fine. The ToS don't need paragraphs for data protection because that is already covered by law. If people could get your email address or IP address by using a tool in this game, Anet would be in big trouble. They have to protect these personal data by law. They do not have to protect data of your damage or gear, because by law, this is not personal data. They decided to tolerate access of dps data. They could not do that if this was personal data because --> law. What kind of gear you are wearing is no personal data in the same way. If Anet decided to tolerate gear check tools, no law would keep them from doing it. They could decide to publish all that stuff on a webpage, like other publishers do and there's nothing you could do about it. > > Account information, payment data or WhatsApp messages, in contrary, are personal data protected by law. It's such a sensible data that not even every employee has access to. Admins cannot simply check how much gems you bought and what your credit card number is. > > Would I be ok if you were able to check my whatsApp history or account info? Certainly not, this is personal data that needs to be protected. Would I be ok if Anet published my characters' gear? Sure, why not, it's not personal data. Point is, Anet stated that gear checkers are not ok. If i understood you right, you promote breaking of the rules because "no harm is done". My point is, rules are there for a reason and you should follow them if you want to play this game. Also, how can you prove that gear checker can't be abused to gain more than just info about the gear? Going back to whatsapp, what seems to be a simple thing (status tracking) allows you with certain scripts to get user profile, their online times etc., more than user possibly wants to give out. Another simple example: i have been on IT conference last year. One speaker there gave us an example how with smart data gathering from public websites and analysis you can figure out personal life of the employees of certain new paper. All based on time and author name of the published articles - seemingly little, harmless information. You could tell when those people have vacation, when they are sick, whether they date each other, when they have birthday and if they quit their jobs/got fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 you know what's sad, ppl accept a n00b with meta gear but kick a veteran player not in meta gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I really wish anet allowed gearchecks finally. They already harmed the community giving greenlight to these tools and group harassment so why not going all in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenndevis.8327 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I personally like dps meters. Not to flame others but to see how good or bad im doing myself compared to others. It helps me improve and yeah sure there are those toxic people who are gnna complain about anything but those people will be toxic no matter what. It's not the dps meters fault. If you find someone like that in the party I think they should be reported instead and be warned or temporarily banned instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > I keep saying it because it is factually correct. A payroll dollar spent on remedial action cannot be spent on something else. > > > > The game belongs to ANet. They set the rules, no differently in essence than your grandmother getting to decide what the rules for acceptable behavior are in her home. We agree to abide by those rules. The company ends up having to spend money enforcing those rules because some players are dishonest. If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. The harm that the player base as a whole suffers is lessened development of the game. > > Why do I get the impression that people these days think that repeating the same thing over and over makes it eventually true? According to many people here on the forums and Cynz.9437 in this thread, Anet does not ban people who got reported for using a gear check tool. The time they might spend investigating is lost because of the people who send in reports about something that cannot be proven. The rule "no gear check" cannot be enforced, and Anet knows, and obviously this process doesn't get in the way of developing the game. > > Let's say one rule in your grandmother's house is for guests to sit on the toilet when they have to visit the bathroom. However, for some reason you feel that it's "unmanly" to sit down and you much prefer to do your business standing. You clean up the inevitable mess afterwards, and think nobody will ever know. Unfortunately, you forget to put down the lid, and the next person who enters the bathroom, your brother, notices immediately and concludes that you, the person who was in the bathroom right before him, must be the perp. And, since this is what siblings do, he reports you to your grandmother. Your grandmother shames you in front of your family and this becomes a slightly uncomfortable scene. > > Did you cause any harm by breaking the rule? Or was it your brother who stirred things up by reporting you? > > I suggest people spend more time minding their own business instead of reporting players who do no harm. You are not calling the police when you see someone jaywalking without causing any hinderence or harm, do you? And police don't spend time and resources to enforce the "no jaywalking" rule either. Ok, a few people, without the ability to support the claim, say that Aanet doesnt enforce their rules. Which means, absolutely nothing. On the other hand the property owner has set rules, and ends up spending resources enforcing them because dishonest people with no respect for the rights of property owners, cannot keep their word. It doesnt matter if someone thinks that they are doing no harm. Unless they are willing to fork out the millions of dollars it would take to buy the company they dont get to decide. I am positive that the very people choosing to ignore the house rules here would not be happy if a healthy, not in any way diseased or contagious, stranger decided to enter their home and urinate on the kitchen tile. The urine wouldnt damage the home, it wouldnt spread infection, and would only require a small amount of time to clean up. Reporting players for breaking rules that we all agree to abide by is appropriate. Not at all mandatory, but appropriate. Choosing to break the house rules on someone else's property, purposefully denying another the rights of a property owner to determination of the use of their property. Lying to a property owner in order to conceal that effort at denial of property rights is not appropriate. And, in your grandmother's house example, the individual wholely and solely at fault is the one who decided to ignore grandma's rules. Her house, not his. The one who commits the violation, of house rules set by a property owner, or even a crime, is the one responsible for the consequences of the violation, not the individual who reported the violation, nor the authorities to whom the violation was reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Regardless of whether gear checking causes harm or not, this is a social problem, not a technological one. People checked gear long before fractals and raids, people insisted on meta builds, and so on. Gear-checking tools might just make it easier for jerks to find more excuses for their behavior, but they don't actually justify it. And more importantly, such tools don't cause people to become rude. All any of us can do is communicate as clearly as we can whether we have expectations/requirements for our groups (whether as invitee or inviter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 > @"Gandrogh.1530" said: > Players don't need dps meter to be toxic. > Meter allow to see and compare each other actions. Why is that wrong ? A support guard with no dps is fine. A pew pew useless ranger with no dps is not fine. Unfortunately the second type of player didn't have dps meter so they do not know that they are bad. > I think it's alway the same problem : respect the title of your party in the lfg. Meta group : probably players who also use dps meter; chill run ? No one care. > > And dps meter is a great tool This. Much this. I hope the double staff power minionmancer necros understand this one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The argument that DPS meters allow someone with an off-meta build to demonstrate that their build is competitive convinced me that DPS meters have a place in the instanced content game. That makes it a tool (potentially) useful to everyone. There is another convincing argument (the meter provides data to determine the effectiveness of builds, and rotations.) I'm sold on the usefulness of meters. Any "toxicity" they enable is going to manifest in another way were the meter not available. All it takes to know this is to remember these forums pre-meter. It certainly helps that the approved meter only reads squad members. Gear check is another matter. Were it something players could opt into or choose to disable, I'd be OK with it. Lack of player choice as to whether they can block someone from looking is a non-starter for me. I no more want people looking at my gear in game than I want them looking in my underwear draw in life. It may only be underwear (or pixel stats) but it is not anyone's business but mine. And no, I'm not going to join groups that don't want what I bring, so don't go there. As it is, gear check is a convenience tool that allows players to select for their preferences. Well, gear check with an opt-out can work as well. No opt-in? Adios. Meanwhile, players who form "relaxed" groups have no convenience tool with which to detect players who will add in, then co-opt the group or do other objectionable things. If we were to be forced to endure gear check for the convenience of one side in the controversy, the other side should have a kitten detector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > As it is, gear check is a convenience tool that allows players to select for their preferences. Well, they can already do that in the LFG description. They can ask for meta builds for example. Thing is, some people try to sneak into these groups without meeting the requirements. Ashen wrote earlier (in response to reporting gear check users, but the general principle applies, bolded the principle): > **If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements**, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. If players who join groups that ask for specifics respected those rules set by the group starter, and had the integrity to abide by these agremeents, nobody would use gear check tools. You could just trust people to actually use a build that is listed on one of the raid meta webpages. Those people who use such a tool are probably just tired of wasting time. If you get a raid squad together you don't want to spend additional time on watching peoples' dps or boon duration and maybe kick someone who tried to sneak in. Pug raiding is a time waster already, where you just stand there for 80% of the time. I do not promote gear check tools, especially since I don't think there's a tool that only has gear check + dps meter as features. The tool allows real cheating for those who install it. I just see where people who use it are coming from. They want a quick run with a meta setup, and not carry people who sneaked in. Would be intertesting to get a reporting option for that. If you ask in LFG for experience and meta build, and a trailblazer scourge joins and keeps failing mechanics, you could report him for cheating on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > As it is, gear check is a convenience tool that allows players to select for their preferences. > > Well, they can already do that in the LFG description. They can ask for meta builds for example. Thing is, some people try to sneak into these groups without meeting the requirements. > > Ashen wrote earlier (in response to reporting gear check users, but the general principle applies, bolded the principle): > > > **If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements**, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. > > If players who join groups that ask for specifics respected those rules set by the group starter, and had the integrity to abide by these agremeents, nobody would use gear check tools. You could just trust people to actually use a build that is listed on one of the raid meta webpages. Those people who use such a tool are probably just tired of wasting time. If you get a raid squad together you don't want to spend additional time on watching peoples' dps or boon duration and maybe kick someone who tried to sneak in. Pug raiding is a time waster already, where you just stand there for 80% of the time. > > I do not promote gear check tools, especially since I don't think there's a tool that only has gear check + dps meter as features. The tool allows real cheating for those who install it. I just see where people who use it are coming from. They want a quick run with a meta setup, and not carry people who sneaked in. Would be intertesting to get a reporting option for that. If you ask in LFG for experience and meta build, and a trailblazer scourge joins and keeps failing mechanics, you could report him for cheating on you. The said scourge would fail mechanics even if he uses meta build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > As it is, gear check is a convenience tool that allows players to select for their preferences. > > Well, they can already do that in the LFG description. They can ask for meta builds for example. Thing is, some people try to sneak into these groups without meeting the requirements. > > Ashen wrote earlier (in response to reporting gear check users, but the general principle applies, bolded the principle): > > > **If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements**, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. > > If players who join groups that ask for specifics respected those rules set by the group starter, and had the integrity to abide by these agremeents, nobody would use gear check tools. You could just trust people to actually use a build that is listed on one of the raid meta webpages. Those people who use such a tool are probably just tired of wasting time. If you get a raid squad together you don't want to spend additional time on watching peoples' dps or boon duration and maybe kick someone who tried to sneak in. Pug raiding is a time waster already, where you just stand there for 80% of the time. > > I do not promote gear check tools, especially since I don't think there's a tool that only has gear check + dps meter as features. The tool allows real cheating for those who install it. I just see where people who use it are coming from. They want a quick run with a meta setup, and not carry people who sneaked in. Would be intertesting to get a reporting option for that. If you ask in LFG for experience and meta build, and a trailblazer scourge joins and keeps failing mechanics, you could report him for cheating on you. I'm fully in agreement that people (in general) ought to respect the expressed preferences of group formers (no matter the preference expressed). My point, though, was that offering a convenience tool which makes checking for so-called "leeching" while not also providing a convenience tool for those who form laid-back groups to check for kitten-hats seems off. People who think the LFG exists solely for their own convenience are not restricted to people who want to slide into meta groups under the radar -- although I'm sure it feels that way to people who only form or join meta groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaarik.6804 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 > @"Dreamwolf.7423" said: > I know that Anet's current standing on third party programs that allow people to check other's gear and DPS is that it's ok as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over other players. However, there are some that thinks this makes it ok for them to join a group and immediately start flaming party members for not running meta classes, meta builds, etc. Never mind that the group hadn't even actually started doing anything yet. > > For example: while pugging a T4 fractal group, a person joined and called out half the party. Saying their class was useless, their choice of stats were useless. How they would have to be carried through because they didn't uphold the holy trinity. > > I find this repulsive. What happened to the days of being able to play how we want? I expected some one to rage during a pug T4 if the party continuously wiped, but this flaming from the second they joined was just crazy. **"Anet says its okay."** That is actually what they used to justify what their behavior. I have pugged T4s for years and this is the second time in a few months that I've had to deal with something like this. I actually got kicked from one group because I changed out a weapon for a fight. No warning, just booted. Because I changed out a weapon to fit the fight we were wiping in. But this party had no such problems, everyone seemed to be able to hold their own, carry their own weight, etc. We never wiped. We didn't spend too much time on any one boss. Yet, this one person continued on and on until I finally blocked them. Makes it difficult to communicate with your party when you have to block a member of it. > > **BUT ANET SAYS ITS OK.** > > That right there is the problem.** It's not ok, ANET.** This is a game. People should enjoy playing a game. When people enjoy playing a game, they spend money on that game. Right now, I don't enjoy playing GW2. And I know I'm not the only one. > > **BUT ANET SAYS ITS OK.** > But anet do not allow gear check add-ons. The reason is because you can use them for your advantage in pvp. The person was probably using a hack that was recently "advertised" in one of the youtube vids. So considering that video, that person was either trolling you or just an ass. Like most people would say: block,kick,report for hacking (does not have to be in that order). There is no reason to drama queen about it ^.^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakubyogami.7586 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > Metres show the truth. And I see no reason to hide from it. And they also show the healing and support classes healing you, buffing you, protecting you, etc as well correct? No? Well, does it at least take into account hybrid classes/builds, or classes like Engineer who may hit a kit to solve an immediate problem? No? Oh, well then... yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freaky Pie.6845 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 > @"Yakubyogami.7586" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Metres show the truth. And I see no reason to hide from it. > > And they also show the healing and support classes healing you, buffing you, protecting you, etc as well correct? > No? In fact, it does To people crying about being kick in T4 ask yourself this question Can i complete T4 if i have 4 people like me? depending of the answer, you can know if the kick is justify or not Most of the time you aren't kick because you play off meta build, but because you bring nothing to the group, understand the game before blaming other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 > @"Yakubyogami.7586" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Metres show the truth. And I see no reason to hide from it. > > And they also show the healing and support classes healing you, buffing you, protecting you, etc as well correct? > No? > Well, does it at least take into account hybrid classes/builds, or classes like Engineer who may hit a kit to solve an immediate problem? > No? > Oh, well then... yeah. Engineer does high dps with a proper dps build and still has the tools from different kits. There ARE NO GOOD HYBRID BUILDS outside of greiving firebrand. If you are using a hybrid build you already shot yourself in the foot. As for healing, i can plainly see when I'm being healed, and the boon uptime. As for 'being protected', any good player can do this fir themself. What do you think you stacking toughness is gonna make me get hit less in fractals? It's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > As it is, gear check is a convenience tool that allows players to select for their preferences. > > > > Well, they can already do that in the LFG description. They can ask for meta builds for example. Thing is, some people try to sneak into these groups without meeting the requirements. > > > > Ashen wrote earlier (in response to reporting gear check users, but the general principle applies, bolded the principle): > > > > > **If players had a basic respect for the rights of property owners to set rules on their property, and had the integrity to abide by their agreements**, then the money being spent on remedial action could instead be directed to more productive endeavors that would, potentially, benefit all players. > > > > If players who join groups that ask for specifics respected those rules set by the group starter, and had the integrity to abide by these agremeents, nobody would use gear check tools. You could just trust people to actually use a build that is listed on one of the raid meta webpages. Those people who use such a tool are probably just tired of wasting time. If you get a raid squad together you don't want to spend additional time on watching peoples' dps or boon duration and maybe kick someone who tried to sneak in. Pug raiding is a time waster already, where you just stand there for 80% of the time. > > > > I do not promote gear check tools, especially since I don't think there's a tool that only has gear check + dps meter as features. The tool allows real cheating for those who install it. I just see where people who use it are coming from. They want a quick run with a meta setup, and not carry people who sneaked in. Would be intertesting to get a reporting option for that. If you ask in LFG for experience and meta build, and a trailblazer scourge joins and keeps failing mechanics, you could report him for cheating on you. > > I'm fully in agreement that people (in general) ought to respect the expressed preferences of group formers (no matter the preference expressed). My point, though, was that offering a convenience tool which makes checking for so-called "leeching" while not also providing a convenience tool for those who form laid-back groups to check for kitten-hats seems off. People who think the LFG exists solely for their own convenience are not restricted to people who want to slide into meta groups under the radar -- although I'm sure it feels that way to people who only form or join meta groups. Simple answer really. Those people don't care about requirements. Ofc course there is no tool for them, because they have nothing to check. This has got to be the worst equity argument I've heard all week. "Well if they have it why don't we have it". Well you don't need tools to accept every random joe that comes along now do you? Any tool would impose a requirement, which is what people are here whining about. As for player behavior. Well. Did you happen to think 1984 by George Orwell should be using as a game manual? Because you were pretty close there. While you're at it lets have a tool to mark people who refuse to use proper builds in the game, then maybe dps meters, and gear checkers wouldn't be so prevalent? I honestly dread the downtime of arcdps on patches because I constantly have to leave groups or kick bads without being able to see whats going wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProverbsofHell.2307 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 > @"Yakubyogami.7586" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > Metres show the truth. And I see no reason to hide from it. > > And they also show the healing and support classes healing you, buffing you, protecting you, etc as well correct? > No? > Well, does it at least take into account hybrid classes/builds, or classes like Engineer who may hit a kit to solve an immediate problem? > No? > Oh, well then... yeah. Another guy already told you but yeah... it DOES show those things. I can see exactly who is healing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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