Third Party DPS/Gear Checkers Green Light Toxicity

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > someone in wvw used a dps meter in the reset raid lastnight and was callinmg people out. i was not on ts at the time but he said at 1 point that the wvw commander (full mistral firebrand) was 3rd dps in a 50 person squad though he did not take into account of refelcts and burn ticks. not to mention its pirate ship atm. is this how try hard people wanna be now?

> >

> > DPS meters do take into account condi ticks and retaliation, not sure about reflects, but pretty sure it does as well.

> > If a full minstrel (i'm supposing that's what you meant), was 3rd DPS, the guy does have a point, since Minstrel's is probably the least offensive stat set in the game, with zero damage modifiers.

> > Not saying that he'd earned the right to be an kitten about it, **but** he has a point.

>

> not when the meta is pirate ship... reflects can easily stack up a lot of dps back, also even the burn ticks from firebrand. minstrel still has power and most of the time 25 might stacks.

 

Minstrel's is Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power, and Concentration... It has **no** extra condi damage or extra power.

Everyone else should have better stats, and similar boons running in a group. So, if he was third, everyone else was slacking, there's simply no excuse for a minstrel's being 3rd in DPS.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> PvE people never cease to surprise me in how they can bring each other down to the lowest level through dps checks.

 

Funny how right above your post, someone told about abuse of dps meters in WvW. It's not about PvE or WvW, it's always about people. WvW is no better than PvE when it comes to that.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > someone in wvw used a dps meter in the reset raid lastnight and was callinmg people out. i was not on ts at the time but he said at 1 point that the wvw commander (full mistral firebrand) was 3rd dps in a 50 person squad though he did not take into account of refelcts and burn ticks. not to mention its pirate ship atm. is this how try hard people wanna be now?

> > >

> > > DPS meters do take into account condi ticks and retaliation, not sure about reflects, but pretty sure it does as well.

> > > If a full minstrel (i'm supposing that's what you meant), was 3rd DPS, the guy does have a point, since Minstrel's is probably the least offensive stat set in the game, with zero damage modifiers.

> > > Not saying that he'd earned the right to be an kitten about it, **but** he has a point.

> >

> > not when the meta is pirate ship... reflects can easily stack up a lot of dps back, also even the burn ticks from firebrand. minstrel still has power and most of the time 25 might stacks.

>

> Minstrel's is Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power, and Concentration... It has **no** extra condi damage or extra power.

> Everyone else should have better stats, and similar boons running in a group. So, if he was third, everyone else was slacking, there's simply no excuse for a minstrel's being 3rd in DPS.

 

oops yeah. looked at wrong stats.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

 

I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

 

When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > PvE people never cease to surprise me in how they can bring each other down to the lowest level through dps checks.

>

> Funny how right above your post, someone told about abuse of dps meters in WvW. It's not about PvE or WvW, it's always about people. WvW is no better than PvE when it comes to that.

 

I agree, people are definitely the problem. Maybe I'm just a lucky guy who has a good guild that cares about all of its members and how we do in WvW, but in most cases the toxicity in terms of damage and how much dps people do in WvW, is mostly never there from my experience. However, I speak on a unique perspective because the guilds I've raided with aren't toxic, nor are they 50 man blobs since my server doesn't have those kind of numbers in one guild. When you have guildies that care about each other at a bond closer than just another comrade, and instead a friend you know and can count on, doesn't give you the vibe to even want to berate them over things such as dps and damage; while instead cultivating the idea of fun, teamwork, and helping one another when things are not going so well in terms of damage output or sustain.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Dreamwolf.7423" said:

> I know that Anet's current standing on third party programs that allow people to check other's gear and DPS is that it's ok as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage over other players. However, there are some that thinks this makes it ok for them to join a group and immediately start flaming party members for not running meta classes, meta builds, etc. Never mind that the group hadn't even actually started doing anything yet.

>

> For example: while pugging a T4 fractal group, a person joined and called out half the party. Saying their class was useless, their choice of stats were useless. How they would have to be carried through because they didn't uphold the holy trinity.

>

> I find this repulsive. What happened to the days of being able to play how we want? I expected some one to rage during a pug T4 if the party continuously wiped, but this flaming from the second they joined was just crazy. **"Anet says its okay."** That is actually what they used to justify what their behavior. I have pugged T4s for years and this is the second time in a few months that I've had to deal with something like this. I actually got kicked from one group because I changed out a weapon for a fight. No warning, just booted. Because I changed out a weapon to fit the fight we were wiping in. But this party had no such problems, everyone seemed to be able to hold their own, carry their own weight, etc. We never wiped. We didn't spend too much time on any one boss. Yet, this one person continued on and on until I finally blocked them. Makes it difficult to communicate with your party when you have to block a member of it.

>

> **BUT ANET SAYS ITS OK.**

>

> That right there is the problem.** It's not ok, ANET.** This is a game. People should enjoy playing a game. When people enjoy playing a game, they spend money on that game. Right now, I don't enjoy playing GW2. And I know I'm not the only one.

>

> **BUT ANET SAYS ITS OK.**

>

 

A few things To correct in your statement, Gear Check has never been allowed and is still not allowed, Anet Bans people for using Gear Check and Build Check software. Actual Combat Meters like Arc provide completely unbiased information that is relevant to the Group fights and if the Group leader chooses to make decisions based on the unbiased information then it is up to them, this is better than not having the unbiased information and kicking people for arbitrary and perceived reasons as was done before Combat Meters were ever implemented, the toxicity was just as a bad if not a lot worse before Combat Meters were ever a thing.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

>

> I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

>

> When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

 

Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> >

> > I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

> >

> > When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

>

> Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

 

I think there are more things to consider than if data is encrypted or unencrypted. I think we can all agree that gear checks in PvP/WvW would be bad. People would check you out and adjust accordingly, then you would check them out and change your build. But then the other guy would see that and adjust again, and so on.

 

I might be wrong, but I think if gear checks would only work outside of PvP/WvW, Anet might not be that strict about them.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> PvE people never cease to surprise me in how they can bring each other down to the lowest level through dps checks. I'd like to say first and foremost my wvw guild uses dps checks but they don't use them as standards to yell at people with; instead my guild uses it to realize who is under performing in the radar and we help them do better in the long run so they can land their damage more effectively, but never and I mean never will we become savages that berate our guildies for doing poorly or even consider kicking them as an option.

>

> I think that no matter what game mode you are on, you have to look at things from two perspectives when it comes to dealing damage, overall damage done and damage per second. You have to make sure that the person really is under performing in both categories to base an assumption. Also, if four people are doing great and one isn't just finish the fractal, don't just kick them out, it is only a game after all, not a competition; there is legit a problem with you if you ARE competing with someone on killing monsters. If you want to keep all the competition out then you are playing the wrong kind of game, go play a single player game and I promise you that you will be the strongest person there is.

 

Yea pve players dont do that to their guildies either, pick up groups do tho since they are random people mashed together.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> AFAIK there is only one **DPS** meter that meets Anets standard, ArcDPS.

>

> I don't think any 3rd party program that allows gear check is approved.

 

Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> > >

> > > I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

> > >

> > > When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

> >

> > Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

>

> I think there are more things to consider than if data is encrypted or unencrypted. I think we can all agree that gear checks in PvP/WvW would be bad. People would check you out and adjust accordingly, then you would check them out and change your build. But then the other guy would see that and adjust again, and so on.

>

> I might be wrong, but I think if gear checks would only work outside of PvP/WvW, Anet might not be that strict about them.

 

There are 2 things to consider here:

 

1) current gearcheckers can already do this, whether anet allows it or not, so what's a big deal? People who know where to look can already see your gear.

 

2) if anet allowed gearchecking, they can make restrictions for them not to work in pvp/wvw, that's how they dealt with arcdps build template macros I believe

 

So, back to my original claim - not allowing gear checking at this point is arbitral and hypocritical.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"Dreamwolf.7423" said:

> > @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > AFAIK there is only one **DPS** meter that meets Anets standard, ArcDPS.

> >

> > I don't think any 3rd party program that allows gear check is approved.

>

> I read Gaile's post about 3rd party add ons very carefully before I made this post. According to her. "The best way for a player to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player or a PvP opponent is to ask:

> "Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn't use it?"

> "Does this program allow someone to 'play' when he/she is not at the computer?"

> "Does this program allow the user to gain undeserved rewards?"

> If the answer to any of these questions is "yes"—or even "maybe"—then we strongly recommend that you do not use the program because to do so may place your Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 account in jeopardy."

>

> Everything else is OK. Including gear checkers.

 

Well there in lies the problem. From where I sit, if i can check your gear or build I immediately have an advantage over you in a PvP scenario as I can then tweak my play style and gear to specifically counter you. In the case of fractals or raids, its used to troll or shame other players.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> 1) current gearcheckers can already do this, whether anet allows it or not, so what's a big deal? People who know where to look can already see your gear.

>

> 2) if anet allowed gearchecking, they can make restrictions for them not to work in pvp/wvw, that's how they dealt with arcdps build template macros I believe

>

> So, back to my original claim - not allowing gear checking at this point is arbitral and hypocritical.

 

But if Anet implemented a gear check with restrictions, people would still use the cheat tool in PvP and nothing would have changed. So why should they do it?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > 1) current gearcheckers can already do this, whether anet allows it or not, so what's a big deal? People who know where to look can already see your gear.

> >

> > 2) if anet allowed gearchecking, they can make restrictions for them not to work in pvp/wvw, that's how they dealt with arcdps build template macros I believe

> >

> > So, back to my original claim - not allowing gear checking at this point is arbitral and hypocritical.

>

> But if Anet implemented a gear check with restrictions, people would still use the cheat tool in PvP and nothing would have changed. So why should they do it?

 

Well, they allowed dps meters even though people were and still are able to use forbidden tools, so why they did it? Because it's easier to control. It's like I said same case as allowing marijuana in some countries - instead of chasing everyone doing it, create a restricted market/environment. That's why they allowed dps meters, that's why they have no argument to not allow gearchecking. Because every argument against gearchecking can be used against dps meters, making different decisions for these tool hypocritical.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> >

> > I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

> >

> > When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

>

> Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

 

Thing is, you can tell other player's damage, even if not accurately, you can tell ho much healing he's handing out. You can't tell his gear without him telling you. That's the difference... Scroll back to the top where i quoted Chris Cleary's definition of what's allowed on these add-ons.

 

> @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > AFAIK there is only one **DPS** meter that meets Anets standard, ArcDPS.

> >

> > I don't think any 3rd party program that allows gear check is approved.

>

> Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

 

As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"Klipso.8653" said:

> Play WvW, it's the only game mode left where you won't be harassed for using whatever stat combinations or builds you want to use.

 

Not entirely true.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

 

> >

> > Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

>

> As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

 

Are you trying to tell me that I didn't notice while fighting the thief that no CC was working on him and his speed wasn't slowing down when he entered combat? Or that he managed to always get clear across a map to defend a point he wasn't even near before it could be de-capped? Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> > > >

> > > > I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

> > > >

> > > > When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

> > >

> > > Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

> >

> > Thing is, you can tell other player's damage, even if not accurately, you can tell ho much healing he's handing out. You can't tell his gear without him telling you. That's the difference... Scroll back to the top where i quoted Chris Cleary's definition of what's allowed on these add-ons.

>

> You can guess other players dps, you can't read it directly without using 3rd party hack in form of dps meter. As much as you can guess your fellow player's gear considering how low dps he's doing or that he's breaking boss' aggro.

 

Actually, i can tell you another player's DPS with pretty much the same degree of accuracy as a DPS meter. It just takes a ton more work. But i can do that, and i can explain you how:

Spawn a golem in fractal's training area.

Do Damage to it until you get it to ~50% (don't need to be 50% but take note of how much HP it has left). Check your combat log, see how much damage you dealt.

That damage is = 100-x% of the golem's HP (x being how much it had left). Do it a few times more to get a more accurate picture.

(You don't kill the golem to estimate it's HP because you don't want to overestimate due to overkill)

Now you know that golem's HP, numerically.

 

Ask a guy to kill it, time it.

Divide the HP you obtained by the time it took him to kill in seconds = That person's Total DPS.

See, not too hard to do, but convoluted as hell...

 

Gear check, short of him actually linking it, is something you can't **ever** estimate in-game.

And that's pretty much Chris Cleary's standpoint, he allows only stuff that can be gathered with combat data in-game.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Actually, i can tell you another player's DPS with pretty much the same degree of accuracy as a DPS meter. It just takes a ton more work. But i can do that, and i can explain you how:

> Spawn a golem in fractal's training area.

> Do Damage to it until you get it to ~50% (don't need to be 50% but take note of how much HP it has left). Check your combat log, see how much damage you dealt.

> That damage is = 100-x% of the golem's HP (x being how much it had left). Do it a few times more to get a more accurate picture.

> (You don't kill the golem to estimate it's HP because you don't want to overestimate due to overkill)

> Now you know that golem's HP, numerically.

>

> Ask a guy to kill it, time it.

> Divide the HP you obtained by the time it took him to kill in seconds = That person's Total DPS.

> See, not too hard to do, but convoluted as hell...

>

> Gear check, short of him actually linking it, is something you can't **ever** estimate in-game.

> And that's pretty much Chris Cleary's standpoint, he allows only stuff that can be gathered with combat data in-game.

 

That is quite an elaborated way of telling someone's dps ^^

 

I usually guess how much dps someone does in fractals while watching him kill a trash mob. I know pretty well how fast a bar goes down when I attack, and when you see someone slashing at a dredge vet while the bar is hardly moving, it's pretty low dps. In open world without party (without me actually seeing the dps), it's also quite obvious. Some people take ages to slash down random mobs.

 

I remember when I was new and levelling, and I was the one that needed ages to kill something, and a veteran came by and killed everything with a few swings. I was quite shocked then about the difference. So yeah, you just have to watch people to make a goood guess about their dps. No need to pull them in front of a golem.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Actually, i can tell you another player's DPS with pretty much the same degree of accuracy as a DPS meter. It just takes a ton more work. But i can do that, and i can explain you how:

> > Spawn a golem in fractal's training area.

> > Do Damage to it until you get it to ~50% (don't need to be 50% but take note of how much HP it has left). Check your combat log, see how much damage you dealt.

> > That damage is = 100-x% of the golem's HP (x being how much it had left). Do it a few times more to get a more accurate picture.

> > (You don't kill the golem to estimate it's HP because you don't want to overestimate due to overkill)

> > Now you know that golem's HP, numerically.

> >

> > Ask a guy to kill it, time it.

> > Divide the HP you obtained by the time it took him to kill in seconds = That person's Total DPS.

> > See, not too hard to do, but convoluted as hell...

> >

> > Gear check, short of him actually linking it, is something you can't **ever** estimate in-game.

> > And that's pretty much Chris Cleary's standpoint, he allows only stuff that can be gathered with combat data in-game.

>

> That is quite an elaborated way of telling someone's dps ^^

>

> I usually guess how much dps someone does in fractals while watching him kill a trash mob. I know pretty well how fast a bar goes down when I attack, and when you see someone slashing at a dredge vet while the bar is hardly moving, it's pretty low dps. In open world without party (without me actually seeing the dps), it's also quite obvious. Some people take ages to slash down random mobs.

>

> I remember when I was new and levelling, and I was the one that needed ages to kill something, and a veteran came by and killed everything with a few swings. I was quite shocked then about the difference. So yeah, you just have to watch people to make a goood guess about their dps. No need to pull them in front of a golem.

 

Yeah, that's how most people do it, but you can tell pretty much the exact dps, as a DPS meter will. Which was the point i was trying to make.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

>

> > >

> > > Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

> >

> > As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

>

> Are you trying to tell me that I didn't notice while fighting the thief that no CC was working on him and his speed wasn't slowing down when he entered combat? Or that he managed to always get clear across a map to defend a point he wasn't even near before it could be de-capped? Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

>

I'm not denying the existence of Hacks. I'm denying your knowledge of Arena Net's Action or Inaction towards it.

 

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> >

> > > >

> > > > Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

> > >

> > > As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

> >

> > Are you trying to tell me that I didn't notice while fighting the thief that no CC was working on him and his speed wasn't slowing down when he entered combat? Or that he managed to always get clear across a map to defend a point he wasn't even near before it could be de-capped? Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

> >

> I'm not denying the existence of Hacks. I'm denying your knowledge of Arena Net's Action or Inaction towards it.

>

 

Aaaaah, yeah. Because the proof that one guy recorded over a period of months of trying to get people to report him to Anet and never getting banned until he personally served up a video to Anet of him using the software, and the fact that to date the largest punitive action taken by Anet against people in game was when 3000 people used an in game exploit which hurt Anet's bottom line but still lets over 50K people use some form of hacking software in their game is just "anecdotal". The fact that since this game has launched people have reported hackers and even captured video of their BS and it took a massive outcry from hundreds of players about just one hacker in WvW to raise such a stink that they finally dealt with the hacker after months of doing nothing even though he was getting reported left right and center.

 

Anet has already shown they don't act on info regarding hackers unless that person is doing something that "takes food out of their mouth". In that case they shut them down within 24 hours.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

> > > >

> > > > As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

> > >

> > > Are you trying to tell me that I didn't notice while fighting the thief that no CC was working on him and his speed wasn't slowing down when he entered combat? Or that he managed to always get clear across a map to defend a point he wasn't even near before it could be de-capped? Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

> > >

> > I'm not denying the existence of Hacks. I'm denying your knowledge of Arena Net's Action or Inaction towards it.

> >

>

> Aaaaah, yeah. Because the proof that one guy recorded over a period of months of trying to get people to report him to Anet and never getting banned until he personally served up a video to Anet of him using the software, and the fact that to date the largest punitive action taken by Anet against people in game was when 3000 people used an in game exploit which hurt Anet's bottom line but still lets over 50K people use some form of hacking software in their game is just "anecdotal". The fact that since this game has launched people have reported hackers and even captured video of their BS and it took a massive outcry from hundreds of players about just one hacker in WvW to raise such a stink that they finally dealt with the hacker after months of doing nothing even though he was getting reported left right and center.

>

> Anet has already shown they don't act on info regarding hackers unless that person is doing something that "takes food out of their mouth". In that case they shut them down within 24 hours.

 

Sure buddy... Because banning hackers in a F2P game will help a lot, they won't just come back with more malice. It's not better to wait till they can just fix the code that is exploited for the hack, and then ban people.

That's your interpretation of the facts, not the whole story.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > > So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't even think he can make that argument in the first place. He thinks the game is being hacked, but in reality, the unencrypted data that is in transit through the computer's memory is picked up. No game file is touched or analyzed in the process. The computer's memory is outside the client's realm, that's why Anet cannot know if that data has been read or not. It's like handing over an unsealed letter to your friend with the task to deliver it to someone else, but without reading it. If your friend reads the letter, he doesn't need to hack anything, and you'll never know. Sure, you need some skill/knowledge to read the memory of a computer, but the same goes for the friend who reads the letter. He needs to know the language for example.

> > > > >

> > > > > When Anet decided to move data through the memory like that, they knew it can be read. There's no hacking involved at all.

> > > >

> > > > Gearchecking is aswell an unencrypted data. Not allowing such tool is hypocritical while the other one is allowed.

> > >

> > > Thing is, you can tell other player's damage, even if not accurately, you can tell ho much healing he's handing out. You can't tell his gear without him telling you. That's the difference... Scroll back to the top where i quoted Chris Cleary's definition of what's allowed on these add-ons.

> >

> > You can guess other players dps, you can't read it directly without using 3rd party hack in form of dps meter. As much as you can guess your fellow player's gear considering how low dps he's doing or that he's breaking boss' aggro.

>

> Actually, i can tell you another player's DPS with pretty much the same degree of accuracy as a DPS meter. It just takes a ton more work. But i can do that, and i can explain you how:

> Spawn a golem in fractal's training area.

> Do Damage to it until you get it to ~50% (don't need to be 50% but take note of how much HP it has left). Check your combat log, see how much damage you dealt.

> That damage is = 100-x% of the golem's HP (x being how much it had left). Do it a few times more to get a more accurate picture.

> (You don't kill the golem to estimate it's HP because you don't want to overestimate due to overkill)

> Now you know that golem's HP, numerically.

>

> Ask a guy to kill it, time it.

> Divide the HP you obtained by the time it took him to kill in seconds = That person's Total DPS.

> See, not too hard to do, but convoluted as hell...

>

> Gear check, short of him actually linking it, is something you can't **ever** estimate in-game.

> And that's pretty much Chris Cleary's standpoint, he allows only stuff that can be gathered with combat data in-game.

 

It's still estimation or guess, you as a human are incapable of playing, monitoring someone's dps in group and counting all the boons. So dps meter is already doing the job you can't achieve without using it. Literally.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"PookieDaWombat.6209" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nope, Anet just seems to not care that there are tons of people using a hack to do just that and even more. Had to deal with 2 people in PvP the other day using this very hack and by the time I realized it, the match was pretty much over.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as you know, right!? Which, let's be honest is not very far.

> > > >

> > > > Are you trying to tell me that I didn't notice while fighting the thief that no CC was working on him and his speed wasn't slowing down when he entered combat? Or that he managed to always get clear across a map to defend a point he wasn't even near before it could be de-capped? Not really sure what point you're trying to make.

> > > >

> > > I'm not denying the existence of Hacks. I'm denying your knowledge of Arena Net's Action or Inaction towards it.

> > >

> >

> > Aaaaah, yeah. Because the proof that one guy recorded over a period of months of trying to get people to report him to Anet and never getting banned until he personally served up a video to Anet of him using the software, and the fact that to date the largest punitive action taken by Anet against people in game was when 3000 people used an in game exploit which hurt Anet's bottom line but still lets over 50K people use some form of hacking software in their game is just "anecdotal". The fact that since this game has launched people have reported hackers and even captured video of their BS and it took a massive outcry from hundreds of players about just one hacker in WvW to raise such a stink that they finally dealt with the hacker after months of doing nothing even though he was getting reported left right and center.

> >

> > Anet has already shown they don't act on info regarding hackers unless that person is doing something that "takes food out of their mouth". In that case they shut them down within 24 hours.

>

> Sure buddy... Because banning hackers in a F2P game will help a lot, they won't just come back with more malice. It's not better to wait till they can just fix the code that is exploited for the hack, and then ban people.

> That's your interpretation of the facts, not the whole story.

 

Guild Wars 2 is B2P game with F2P "demo". It never changed its bussiness model.