World Restructuring

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Sviel.7493" said:

> We should keep this thread on the front page until we get an update.

 

Just going to get the thread locked, not that it would matter, since the thread serves no purpose in any case.

[WastedYears.8934]

Reality check, doubt this will work:

 

1. Current world transfer cost gems

2. World restructure is free. World transfer will still be available but seem kinda pointless since people will be shuffled around either by system default. Also kidan pointless. See point 3

3. World restructuring was intended to provide decent coverage across all time zones. Seems kinda contradictory if people can stack in guilds or alliance and be able to play the same world/timezone

4. Highly doubt they have the software developed to track all the stats they mentioned and how often will they frequently use or refresh these statistic?

5. Stats tracking like participation, skill, coverage, language, play hours in WvW, commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels seems over ambitions? I mean how do they intend to segregate the data collected to make it "balance"? Think about it? For the player data or distribution to be accurate, it also means players themselves will need to consistently play in a certain way/or a fixed schedule no?

6. Stats are a good measure of quantitative measurement but what about **qualitative measurements**? Do all these quantitative data measure people relation/player skills/server identity/play style preference?

 

Personal believe that the bond among players, guilds, commanders is what generally keep people active on wvw.

 

Player identity is also relatively important. Players need to identify themselves with servers/event/people in which they finds a sense of belonging. People want to be remember for thing they did in WvW or tell battles they won or the inter guild/server drama. Even server history. All these help them to find a sense of identity/belonging. Shuffling them around doesn't help. They will find guilds to over stack on now.

 

Instead of over stacked worlds, you will now have over stacked guilds since guild member can stack together, and guilds have rules, regulations in which not ever player will abide by. Decision making will also be hierarchical now and dictatorial since guild want to protect their reputation. You're gonna have alot of homeless randoms.

 

People will be people and trying to dictate how they play base on stats ...kinda meh...just let them be...

 

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"WastedYears.8934" said:

> 3. World restructuring was intended to provide decent coverage across all time zones. Seems kinda contradictory if people can stack in guilds or alliance and be able to play the same world/timezone

 

Not really. They won't have time zone tracking to begin with, if at all. The purpose is to spread active accounts over all worlds, so you don't end up with a blackgate having 20k active accounts while all the other servers have 10k active accounts type of situation (not the current situation as bg has destacked, and numbers pulled out of a hat, but that was the situation for many years of one server being over stacked and basically blocking any type of reward or competitive system because it wouldn't be fair).

 

> 4. Highly doubt they have the software developed to track all the stats they mentioned and how often will they frequently use or refresh these statistic?

 

Well they say they can keep track of hours played in wvw, it's how they separate the pure pve from wvw players for population status. And if you don't believe that, well within like the first week of it's deployment a couple servers got off full status when it was known they weren't exactly full and not top tier (think Yaks bend was one of them). I doubt they would name off stuff like tracking commander hours if they couldn't do it.

 

> 5. Stats tracking like participation, skill, coverage, language, play hours in WvW, commander time and squad size, time of day, and participation levels seems over ambitions? I mean how do they intend to segregate the data collected to make it "balance"? Think about it? For the player data or distribution to be accurate, it also means players themselves will need to consistently play in a certain way/or a fixed schedule no?

 

At first they will be going with activity as they currently do. Time zone and commander time can be used to help spread off hours and pug commanders. Most of these stats will affect pugs, basically players who are not attached in the large alliances/guilds as those will already be sorted first to whatever worlds. There's no need for a fixed schedule, play however you want, in two months it will reshuffle accordingly.

 

> Personal believe that the bond among players, guilds, commanders is what generally keep people active on wvw.

 

And those bonds will be kept alive with alliances, the good and bad of them. The only bond missing is server, which frankly is a dead concept. There's a lot of elitist toxic players/commanders/guilds around these days, they don't care about anyone but themselves. I still see scouts get blasted for just providing information in chat, players making false calls to try and get into queued maps. Most people only care about themselves, their guild, their reward, it's a sad fact.

 

> Player identity is also relatively important. Players need to identify themselves with servers/event/people in which they finds a sense of belonging. People want to be remember for thing they did in WvW or tell battles they won or the inter guild/server drama. Even server history. All these help them to find a sense of identity/belonging. Shuffling them around doesn't help. They will find guilds to over stack on now.

>

> Instead of over stacked worlds, you will now have over stacked guilds since guild member can stack together, and guilds have rules, regulations in which not ever player will abide by. Decision making will also be hierarchical now and dictatorial since guild want to protect their reputation. You're gonna have alot of homeless randoms.

>

> People will be people and trying to dictate how they play base on stats ...kinda meh...just let them be...

 

There's a lot of homeless randoms right now. Up to the player to find themselves a home, shuffling around could also give them that opportunity to do so, without having to pay to move to a server to find a community to bond with. Guilds have been shuffling themselves around since 2012 I don't see much of a difference other than it's going to be free.

 

[Sviel.7493]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > @"Sviel.7493" said:

> > We should keep this thread on the front page until we get an update.

>

> Just going to get the thread locked, not that it would matter, since the thread serves no purpose in any case.

 

Probably, but that's still more of a response than we've gotten otherwise.

[Zok.4956]

We now got the new map "Drizzlewood Coast" where you can use wvw siege weapons and where you can escort dolyaks. I came to the sad realization, that this is Anets actual idea of "world restructuring" and we will not get everything else. :#

 

And a lot of players, who think that using siege weapons means "WvW", will populate the WvW maps soon. No need for alliances anymore.

 

 

[WastedYears.8934]

> @"XenesisII.1540"

 

 

Well I don't disagree with certain points thou my overall conclusion is that people/guilds/ will forever be self serving and band wagon server/players or over stacked timezone is more related to the cognitive/mindset of the players themselves. Trying to hard sell alliance or new worlds as a fix or new content isn't exactly solving the dwindling wvw population which actually makes the "over stacking" in server more apparent then in the past years.

 

For Anet's part, data mining players activity level and trying to match them together is a great mathematical concept but these statistical data don't really indicate the exact causation of why players are playing the way they are. The micro, meso and macro level between players is neglected base on these statistics.

 

E.g you can have multiple players who play 10 hours but can the playtime of 10 hours pinpoint the exact causation for activity level?

 

At best you can correlate it to activity level, but the exact causation for 10 hours of play?

 

Say for example player 1 spends 10 hours in wvw in an over stacked server cause the player enjoys big fights , but player 2 could spent 10 hours in wvw in an empty server ktraining cause the player see ranking up as an achievement, and player 3 spent 10 scouting so on and so forth. All have spent the same amount of time but for different reasons.

 

What happens then if you put these players in the same world base on activity level? I would assume that we are going to have very disgruntled people being paired together as such forced pairing is a restriction to their play style. Anet would be satisfying one groups while killing off another.

 

Whether it was Anet acknowledgement or players acknowledgement, EOTM was an indication of separation of play style between hardcore WvWers vs Ktrainer and lumping them together with world restructuring seems contradictory. (Am aware that EOTM is dead due to lack of rewards forcing Ktrainers to move back to wvw)

 

This is also why I think the world restructuring is unnecessary, as guilds can still stack up. It does not remove the concept of over stacking, only now they are over stacked in guilds.

 

The current system actually allows players freedom to choose servers base on how they prefer to play.

 

It just seems like a superficial way to on Anet part to satisfy the remaining hardcore wvw players by lumping everyone together rather then find a genuine fix as to why the wvw population is dwindling or add any genuine added content to wvw to bring the population back.

 

 

[XenesisII.1540]

Lets be real here, there's never going to be a balanced system of populations in an open concept 7 day match. The only way to get balance is to use smaller strict numbers, instances, time limits, essentially battlegrounds from other games, but then it wouldn't be wvw. You want them to sort by quality? You know those three examples have already been existing on same servers for 8 years now, there's a lot of different play times and play styles in wvw. Those players still have a choice to move if they're not happy, or wait two months for a reshuffle as usual (but with the bonus free option to guild/ally with those like minded).

 

So it's either people get off on the idea of population balance and coverage, and just let the population go wherever whenever and deal with those consequences, while having a lack of greater rewards and competition (we already have this and yet people are unhappy). Or let them use systems that can bring us closer to balance with reshuffles and spreading players out. Yes guilds stack, and maybe with alliances they can stack in their own alliances for free and have much less reason to move in the middle of a season or certainly an hour after relink.

 

Alliances is not going to bring new players in, it might bring some old players back. But revamping wvw to something more meaningful might bring in new players, like getting rid of point systems and making every structure useful like guild claimed structures actually provides a way point on a 10min cooldown for your guild only as an example. You don't actually win a match but look to build bonuses/advantages for your side during a match, and every week the worlds are randomly shuffled into matches, since they can track stuff maybe actually use that for leader boards and rewards instead. The reason wvw fails in population and coverage is because it uses a points system rather than a conquer system.

 

Maybe make playing for a side actually worthwhile so players don't feel the need to transfer, playing for the "green blue red" sides is pretty kitten, and a server name is barely an identity, players have had to build that community identity on their own from the beginning but that has been fading for years now as players shift to guilds instead. Where's the banners and tabards and cloaks with server icons on them? where's the horde vs alliance identity mentality? Naw you're just the green blue red community these days.

 

Plus actually getting to the outlier class balance problems might get people into wvw, heck the amount of newbie players that got scared off wvw in 8 years due to one shots could probably fill a new server. Wvw has a harsh entry point due to multiple areas including it's own toxic population, population balance is a small portion of those problems.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Relief to know that I can return to WvW once a year and.... nothing will change

[Svarty.8019]

I'm sure Cal and Luke (remember them? RIP) will be more than happy to answer your World Restructuring queries on the next WvW Live Stream!

 

Oh wait... I'm not.

[Notsoperky.4291]

I heard a rumour that the much awaited new wvw system would be launched in September. It was dated April 1st.

[Melian.5368]

> @"Zok.4956" said:

> We now got the new map "Drizzlewood Coast" where you can use wvw siege weapons and where you can escort dolyaks. I came to the sad realization, that this is Anets actual idea of "world restructuring" and we will not get everything else. :#

>

 

It was the United Legions Alliance they were speaking of, all along xD

[snarfrificus.4230]

Any updates :D ?

[Toxic Robbie.5807]

Nice meme.

[lare.5129]

> @"Brutal Augus.5917" said:

> Alliances

hope they will not impelent Alliances as more peopel understand. Now we have good link, some rng, some wind of chanages, and possibility chose, bot not make some wvw hype. It is good balance of evils. Make something more - add risk. I like current wvw, without any unknow Alliances.

 

 

[lare.5129]

> @"Melian.5368" said:

> > We now got the new map "Drizzlewood Coast" where you can use wvw siege weapons

> It was the United Legions Alliance they were speaking of, all along xD

hope so.

 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

" a new WvW map would be too much work" /// "changing EOTM to a full scale WvW map would be too much work"

 

---> makes a WvW-style map for PvE monkaHmmm

_________________

btw, Alliances when?

[Senqu.8054]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> " a new WvW map would be too much work" /// "changing EOTM to a full scale WvW map would be too much work"

>

> ---> makes a WvW-style map for PvE monkaHmmm

> _________________

> btw, Alliances when?

 

Damn they introduced by now over 20 PvE maps. And a lot of them are not even played anymore, only to gain the achievements and that’s it.

[Fergus.3790]

It's been 2 YEARS! Where is the update????

[Vash.2386]

Hello???? Is this thing on?????

 

Any update to alliances or anything for wvw???

[primatos.5413]

It IS about the money ... they have to feed the parts of the game where they can earn the most... and wvw is NOT part of it..nuff sa(i)d :)

[Melian.5368]

This topic must be a pain for ANet by now. I dare them to just delete everything related to Alliances so that we can go complain on r/MMORPG

[Khovenost.7143]

Hello, just here to ask if there has been any recent development on this situation.

[Lepanto.1827]

> @"Khovenost.7143" said:

> Hello, just here to ask if there has been any recent development on this situation.

 

like 2 years ago...

"SOON"

[Valelutra.9128]

wasn't alliances supposed to come shortly after swiss?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

tbh, any news would be nice at this point. we have no exact clue what they plan with the format, IF the plan anything with the format.

 

the "balancing" of the classes has never exactly been the thing people asked for. and outside of that, they have been done not tailored towards the Wvw meta, assuming the devs are even aware of such a thing existing.

most Wvw players are probably also not trying hard with coordinated guilds.... new map(s) and optical updates would be something they might enjoy.

 

but Anet still should update the maps for increasing their playbility for groupfights. since afaik their own wording is that group battles of larger scale was the intention for this format; also hard cutting down the amount of random NPCs small monsters would be really sweet.

 

sofar the only updates about that ever happened was to switch around like two wall parts on EBG, something that is of incredibly small impact.

other people suggested yet thing like more events for Wvw... alone random buffweeks would be sweet. if you play much, you sooner or later come to a situation where it just gets a bit boring.

 

since i discovered organized groupplay, i really only log in for the guildraids, or nearly, since playing outside of that is so very boring and often annoying.

 

the mechanics overall are just brutally outdated. the NPCs are just weird statists that nobody really cares about, outside of the 10 roleplayers per server. soloplay got way more tedious than ever since at every other corner you can expect at least 2-3 thieves waiting for a gank. siege offense and defense has been the same for years now. tactics too, the turrets have never been fixed (nobody puts them ever bc they are considerd that bad)