Oglaf.1074 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Core Warrior arguably does better than Spellbreaker in roaming and small scale PvP. Spellbreaker very much is a sidegrade rather than upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen.5837 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The F2P model was never intended to be a full game experience. You need to realize that it's a trials version, with a lot of features locked before you buy the game, including elite specs. Complaining about the game being P2W is pointless, as the whole purpose of making the core gameplay free is to encourage new customers to buy expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > Facts: Paying for an expansion gives you an advantage in PvP over those who have not paid for these specs. > Pay-To-Win: Paying for an advantage. > That is literally the definition. Fact: Using existing terms literally is not how the English language or any language works. Words and phrases have definitions and taking them literally often makes them meaningless. If you saw three phone boths in a row and the middle said out of order would you look to see which order they belong in? The point is, P2W has a definition has always had a definition and taking the words literally indicates that the original meaning is being ignored. Pay to Win has ALWAYS been about microtransactions, because if you start applying expansions to the mix, every single MMO is the history of MMOs is pay to win and the term loses it's entire definition. If you've ever played games where you have to by potions in the cash shop and the people with potions wins most battles, you'd have a better idea of what pay to win means. Most MMOs raise the level cap and you can't compete until you buy the expansion. It's part of owning the game. It was never considered pay to win. It shouldn't be considered pay to win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 in WoW you pay for a new Level cap. You wont be viable 5 levels under the cap. In gw2, builds are made by players. There's plenty of people that made Plat+ in PvP on core specs alone. Maybe you're not quite there yet. You don't 'win' in PvE /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haishao.6851 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Try to pvp against well fed people when you're dying of starvation. Paying for food is P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > Facts: Paying for an expansion gives you an advantage in PvP over those who have not paid for these specs. > Pay-To-Win: Paying for an advantage. > That is literally the definition. What Buy-to-Pay game allows you to play expansion content without, you know, buying the expansion? TESO offers a subscription in lieu of B2P, but that amounts to spending even more. The point is you're stretching the definition of "buy to win" to include "buy to play." If you think it's unfair, then don't pay US$30 for either expansion or US$50 for both. You can still play in WvW and, well, PvP means you'd have to be better than average to be competitive without the elite specializations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serow.6524 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > after coming back from a few years of not playing, I noticed their business model changed radically. Now they are selling specializations?! In GW1, players needed to buy Factions to create an Assassin/Ritualistic, and needed to buy Nightfall to create a Dervish/Paragon. So regarding selling professions/specialisation, nothing has changed since 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Pay to Win does not include core content. Everyone who buys parts of the game has access to the same content. Your PoF is no different from your neighbors. Pay 2 Win would be a mount skin that also gives an additional 25% speedboost on top of the base. There have been discussions where the gathering tools are considered P2W, but that was dismissed because the magic you earn with them are accessible without the tools as well, making it Pay2Convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'm usually playing a classic ranger, necromancer or thief in PvP. I do have both expansions, because I like the content. I have tried the new specializations and they are more different than powerful. Perhaps some of them break the meta a bit, which could be seen as powerful, but I do not feel like I have to play them to win. Not by a long shot. I don't know if the top 1% of the PvP players can feel a power imbalance, but then - won't they always have such a clear vision of balance that they can find stuff to complain about? ;) The armor set like marauder for instance wasn't there at release if I remember correct. I feel it's a very good stat spread for how I play and certainly feel it works better for me. But I don't see it as overpowered. It just works very well with some playstyles. If you compare GW2 to other MMOs like ESO or BDO, the balance problems seem so insignificant. If you've played ESO you'll know just how insane the power difference is between different builds is. Completely out of this world unbalanced. If you are a free to play player in GW2 and feel the people who bought the game expansions have an unfair advantage there are two issues. Number one is you blowing things out of proportions and seconly you just being cheap. If you enjoy the game and want to participate in PvP on a level more serious than absolute casual play - get the damn expansions and support the game. If you just want casual play, there is no balance issue with anything. GW2 has been balanced several times and there is no other MMO with better balance. It's not just the balance of classes. It's also the balance between healing/damage, stat distribution and caps, game speed, dodge/attack balance and in general the very core game mechanics. GW2 just does it better than every other MMO currently on the market. As for WvW - it's not easy to balance against player actions. If players stack up, focus fire etc. It's tough. That's true for any MMO. Perhaps with a true action style aiming where tab targeting wasn't a thing, it would be easier to have things balance out. Condition stack caps are a great idea and DD caps could be balanced in some way too. I hope they balance WvW more, but it really is hard simply because of what the game mode is and allows for in terms of player tactics. GW2 is miles ahead in terms of balance and gameplay for PvP compared to other MMOs, and while it can be tweaked, the conplaints are just too silly at times. I had a mate over this weekend. He bought the expansions, created a necromancer and used the level 80 buff. We first godt him the raptor and then we went to Maguma to get him the glider. After that I asked if he wanted to try PvP. He agreed although he does not really like PvP in MMOs. We had a blast and played that the rest of the day. He had a hard time the first couple of matches but after five matches or so he was getting the hang of it. I don't know any other MMO, where he could have had a good PvP experience like that. GW is so unique and he was blown away by how well it played and how he felt that his tactics and actions mattered. How we could talk about what he did wrong, like not running away, engaging superiour numbers and down to Earth stuff like that. I didn't have to tell him how to exploit animations, special op rotations or something else to help him. It made sense on a very common sense level to him, how he could improve his gameplay. I did help him with a simple PvP build, and he loved how it was just fair. GW is unique that way. It allows new players to try out PvP on a very casual level and slowly improve, where most other MMOs are just a horrible first time experience. We met one team, that played on a higler level and well - it didn't go so great for our team. But it was not because of specializations. It was because they worked very well as a team. Even that impressed him more than turned him off from the game. Show me another MMO where such an experience is possible - and while you're at it; give me a map of the fairytale land where whatever you dream about is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. > > Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to If you play on a casual level, the new specs are not an issue. If you want to play on a not so casual level, then get the damn expansions and support the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > > > > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. > > > > Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to > > If you play on a casual level, the new specs are not an issue. If you want to play on a not so casual level, then get the kitten expansions and support the game. I own both expansions actelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > > > > > > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. > > > > > > Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to > > > > If you play on a casual level, the new specs are not an issue. If you want to play on a not so casual level, then get the kitten expansions and support the game. > > I own both expansions actelly Didn't mean you specifically :) I have both too. I use daredevil once in a while, but both my ranger and necromancer are vanilla :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > > > > > > > > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. > > > > > > > > Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to > > > > > > If you play on a casual level, the new specs are not an issue. If you want to play on a not so casual level, then get the kitten expansions and support the game. > > > > I own both expansions actelly > > Didn't mean you specifically :) I have both too. I use daredevil once in a while, but both my ranger and necromancer are vanilla :) What bothers me in comparision so does most e spec make core obsolete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Full game means having all expansion. You are expected to buy them. If you don't, you are not playing full game which means you can't expect being equal in power to someone playing full game. > > Not answering my question, is paying for the expansion paying for an advantage or not? lol. Evidently, it is. Pay-to-win=Paying for an advantage over other players. not. some core builds are better than elite specs (for pvp/wvw) like core beserker warrior. core s/d thief pretty sure even core d/d ele is still better roamer than sword weaver... there is probably more builds too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > > @"Gallows.4318" said: > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > > > > @"Brewergamer.8357" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > Game is B2P. You are expected to buy expansions. GW2 is not P2W. Yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you denying the fact that someone who purchases no expansions at all, has a disadvantage against those who have access to all the elite specs? That is literally paying for an advantage lol. If PAYING FOR AN ADVANTAGE is not pay to win, then NOTHING is. > > > > > > > > > > Expansions e spec is partly p2w for you pay for expansion with improved abillities than core ones wich makes it easier too win but also gw2 isnt free too make content for they gotta make money to > > > > > > > > If you play on a casual level, the new specs are not an issue. If you want to play on a not so casual level, then get the kitten expansions and support the game. > > > > > > I own both expansions actelly > > > > Didn't mean you specifically :) I have both too. I use daredevil once in a while, but both my ranger and necromancer are vanilla :) > > What bothers me in comparision so does most e spec make core obsolete It only replaces a single specialization and you can't combine them. It may be more sensible to have them open to all, but the fact remains that calling it a severe disadvantage is just not being serious. They are not better across the board. I feel daredevil is really nice, but deadeye is a bit meh. Druid and soulbeast aren't that hot either for my build. Lastly I like core necromancer better and I do not get obliterated in PVP because of that choice. Some of the others may need balancing tweaks, we can maybe agree - haven't played the others enough to know. But they need this balancing tweak regardless of them being open to all or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 OP would probably have no problem if access to PvP was only possible if you buy the game, because then, in his mind, you don't have to buy an expansion to compete, but to get access to the competitive part of the game. I like it the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > OP would probably have no problem if access to PvP was only possible if you buy the game, because then, in his mind, you don't have to buy an expansion to compete, but to get access to the competitive part of the game. I like it the way it is. Yes that would be another solution and one I think most F2P players would agree is worse :) They could also just make a "Gimp Arena" for people who do not have the expansions :D People are blowing the issue up to a level where it's just silly. I want the specializations to be balanced and the elites should not be elite in terms of power. But I don't want to do this for the sake of F2P people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"polvere.2805" said: > The people that make this posts are those we got cause game went f2p. Guild Wars was not a F2p game and it should have stayed B2P. It is the best format to keep away trolls like OP. Anet releases a lot of content in an expansion, name some other MMOs that do the same and are totally F2P and with no microtransaction that give in game boosts. > > "Oh no i can't get the skin i like for free, this game must be P2W" Oh wait you can actually buy gems with gold ???!?!?!!?!? > "Oh no i can't faceroll in pvp like the people with expansion, this game must be P2W" There are actually core specs that are viable, also be grateful that you are able to play with those who paid for the game without spending a penny. If it was for me i would not actually allow it. They work for making this game possible, and i am pretty sure that every single person on earth would be disappointed to work for free when they have to pay their bills. > > You quit ? You won't be missed trust me > > tl;dr > Op is a cheap troll Free players cannot post on this forum. And since the OP said they came back after a few years of not playing and are complaining about having to buy the expansions I think it's far more likely they bought the game before HoT and therefore before F2P was an option. I realise free players make easy scape goats as everyone else gets to feel superior for having bought the game, but in a lot of situations, especially this one, it makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows.4318 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > > @"polvere.2805" said: > > The people that make this posts are those we got cause game went f2p. Guild Wars was not a F2p game and it should have stayed B2P. It is the best format to keep away trolls like OP. Anet releases a lot of content in an expansion, name some other MMOs that do the same and are totally F2P and with no microtransaction that give in game boosts. > > > > "Oh no i can't get the skin i like for free, this game must be P2W" Oh wait you can actually buy gems with gold ???!?!?!!?!? > > "Oh no i can't faceroll in pvp like the people with expansion, this game must be P2W" There are actually core specs that are viable, also be grateful that you are able to play with those who paid for the game without spending a penny. If it was for me i would not actually allow it. They work for making this game possible, and i am pretty sure that every single person on earth would be disappointed to work for free when they have to pay their bills. > > > > You quit ? You won't be missed trust me > > > > tl;dr > > Op is a cheap troll > > Free players cannot post on this forum. And since the OP said they came back after a few years of not playing and are complaining about having to buy the expansions I think it's far more likely they bought the game before HoT and therefore before F2P was an option. > > I realise free players make easy scape goats as everyone else gets to feel superior for having bought the game, but in a lot of situations, especially this one, it makes absolutely no sense. You do have a point. We should appreciate the F2P people, because if you like GW2, you want to play it for years to come. That said I just find the P2W sticker some people try to slam on GW2 to be silly. We can agree that elite specs should be balanced - but I do not think this for the sake of people who do not own them. They must be balanced regardless and the P2W issue is irrelevant. The elite specs simply aren't better than core across the board. Some of them allow you to do stuff you can't otherwise, yes. But claiming P2W is just not a serious argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 So you basically calling an expansion that adds new classes P2W? So WoW, ESO, FF and basically any non F2P game as P2W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossaber.8934 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I have seen at least core warrior, mesmer, thief, guardian that won outnumbered fight skillfully in wvw post PoF. I know it is easier to blame the class especially elite spec rather than to admit that I am not as skillful as I think most of the time. But admit it, there are skillful players out there. Elite spec got some edge over core that's truth, none is denying that, but that edge will not make a NOOB into a PRO level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury ranique.2170 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This is not a chance in the business model. In GW1 there was the exact same thing. That game had 1 expansion and 3 campaigns. Each brining unique abilities skills and classes to the game. To be succesfull you needed all those campaigns and expansions. However. This is far from pay to win. You can play vanilla GW2 without those elite specialisations perfectly without any issue. Only when it comes to expansion content you might be in somewhat of trouble, but I do believe it is perfectly beatable. So just regular buy to play as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offair.2563 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > Core Warrior arguably does better than Spellbreaker in roaming and small scale PvP. > > Spellbreaker very much is a sidegrade rather than upgrade. Same goes for druid vs soulbeast, i did pay for it but didnt win anything in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Ore deadeye wich is not as good as a 3rd core spec ore daredevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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