CC Learning.

[CptAwsome.5768]

I think it would be a good idea to incorporate CC learning in the early stages of leveling your character in the game. Just like how you learn how to Dodge. I face countless people in Fractals, Dungeons etc who I must explain what CC is, sometimes in middle of combat. I think it would be better if they came prepared knowing what to do and what they are to do. I learned what CC was when I got into Raiding and even then it took me some time to get the hang of it.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I am sure it would be ignored anyway sadly

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

Great suggestion. I too think the game needs more of an introduction to CC and break bars.

[Roelski.2697]

Maybe somewhere early in the personal story. Where you have to destroy a breakbar with CC to progress the story.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

On the one hand, I'd say great idea (same as I've always said when something like this is suggested).

 

On the other, we have several examples from LS3 and PoF where the game explains a mechanic via dialogue, provides minor puzzles requiring its use, and then people still complain that they didn't know about it when they get to the subsequent boss fight.

 

So yes, ANet should provide ways for players to learn key mechanics, including breaking defiance, balling up foes, condi removal, finishers, etc. But all the same, veterans shouldn't expect that this will mean much in the long run. As the proverb says,

> You can give a mesmer a stun-break, but you can't make them blink.

[battledrone.8315]

making everyone and their grandmothers do it will only annoy even more players

it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

This was suggested ages ago as well, almost right along side of the suggestion to teach new players about dodging. The same request was put forth regarding combo fields too. I think the problem lies in execution of those lessons and how much time and effort Anet wants to devote to those skills.

 

One school of thought is let it be and hope that necessity is what drives someone to learn about those things. In this case through the community screaming "CC THE CHAMP ALREADY JEEZ!" during a map event (*coughJokoinvasioncough*) and hope that new players figure out what to do. The reason for this is because some want some aspects of the game to not have "training wheels" as it were.

 

Another schools is that of the classic MMO where you spend more time in a kind of sandbox that walks you through each of the things (CC, fields, dodging, etc) with mini fights that won't let you progress until you done "X" 5 times or whatever, and then one final fight where you have to do all the things to be successful. And while it might be effective early on, such an approach runs head on into tedium.

 

Both if the above methods also run the risk of alienating new players, and irking vet players for different reasons.

 

To this end, it would seem Anet has scaled such things by adding it in very small ways through core PvE maps, a bit more in dungeons, and even a bit more in fractals, probably assuming that would be the natural player trajectory before possibly trying out PvP and WvW where it becomes almost necessary when running in groups. After that all expansion maps assume you've been through those fires and if you don't know those mechanics by then, well...have fun getting downed. A lot.

 

Is it perfect? No, not by a long shot. Unfortunately there is no easy answer to tweaking the learning curve in the game as it stands. Ultimately it may be up to us vets to be in game mentors and maybe give those new players a bit of understanding when they are not sure what a CC is or how to blast a field. It helps them and it ultimately helps the community.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> making everyone and their grandmothers do it will only annoy even more players

> it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

> its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

 

Well, everyone already has to do it...whether they actually do or not is a different story, and doing it correctly is entirely the point of introducing the mechanic early in the learning part of the game. I'm really not sure why something like this should only be a mechanic for Raids and other hardcore content, just exactly what do you think the Expansions are supposed to be anyways...though not as hardcore as Raids and Fractals they're meant to be end-game content for people that have completed the core game. Hence CC and break bars should be included in the general content for those areas, as it is.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

Why? that sounds like a setup for much more boring open world and story content.

 

> its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game.

[Razor.6392]

Just make them do the tangled depths meta where you are not supposed to CC but everyone does it anyway.

[Mewcifer.5198]

I think something like the dodge circle in the starting zones. Have a training dummy, make it look all really fancy to attract attention and immune to damage unless it is CC'ed. Place a fancy looking NPC next to it, if you talk to the NPC they tell you a bit about CC skills and that if you can break the dummy they will give you a reward.

[Game of Bones.8975]

Make it a Heart where it is repeatable and against differing foes to show timing and effects.

[Abakk.9176]

One would think that after all these years of programming static target dummies, developers would be able to come up with a nice immersive voluntary training camp.

 

In one game i play(ed) there even was a tournament once where one could learn to joust. A skill that was later on used inside the instances of that particular expansion.

[Henry.5713]

This game has always done a terrible job of teaching new players how dodges, breakbars or formerly defiance bars, combo fields and their respective finishers work.

Not to mention how little knowledge many players seem to have on what most boons and conditions actually do or how blocks or invulnerabilities work. It always made me wonder if things are just left this way on purpose to make the game feel more casual and less confusing to that type of player.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I noticed a wierd trend also alot of ppl dont even bother to check what their skills do

[Plautze.6290]

That's why I always bring a mace and a shield with my warrior :# then, after blowing out all my gazillion cc skills and the champ still having 70% of his break bar, because of the other 35 players scaling the thing up a lot, I retreat with said shield up... makes me cheer any time I see another player actually contributing to breaking that bar B)

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> Make it a Heart where it is repeatable and against differing foes to show timing and effects.

 

Ember Bay has one like that. The clams that you can open for heart progress need CC to open. Players can choose not to, but I think turning in their pearls gives more advancement. And the pre-event to one of the bosses, where you free the skritt with CC skills.

 

It's nice to see Defiance integrated into teachable moments, but such a core mechanic really needs a more prominent and in-game lesson.

 

> @"Plautze.6290" said:

> That's why I always bring a mace and a shield with my warrior :# then, after blowing out all my gazillion cc skills and the champ still having 70% of his break bar, because of the other 35 players scaling the thing up a lot, I retreat with said shield up... makes me cheer any time I see another player actually contributing to breaking that bar B)

 

Warrior bar-bashers represent~

Still so, so glad Hammer has a purpose now.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

CC has always meant Candy Canes to me. To any boss battle, I usually bring stacks of them, because my fellow players have great demand for them. ;)

 

In other words, yes, explanation is needed. Just screaming CC is not going to bring any difference to players who do not know the abbreviation nor the concept.

[Plautze.6290]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > That's why I always bring a mace and a shield with my warrior :# then, after blowing out all my gazillion cc skills and the champ still having 70% of his break bar, because of the other 35 players scaling the thing up a lot, I retreat with said shield up... makes me cheer any time I see another player actually contributing to breaking that bar B)

>

> Warrior bar-bashers represent~

> Still so, so glad Hammer has a purpose now.

 

You mean, aside from looking bad-ass menacing? B)

 

 

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > making everyone and their grandmothers do it will only annoy even more players

> > it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

> > its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

>

> Well, everyone already has to do it...whether they actually do or not is a different story, and doing it correctly is entirely the point of introducing the mechanic early in the learning part of the game. I'm really not sure why something like this should only be a mechanic for Raids and other hardcore content, just exactly what do you think the Expansions are supposed to be anyways...though not as hardcore as Raids and Fractals they're meant to be end-game content for people that have completed the core game. Hence CC and break bars should be included in the general content for those areas, as it is.

 

if the majority liked that stuff, they would prolly still play the game

as it is, theyre purposefully making expansions for a smaller and smaller playerbase

most of us dont get better..we just go somewhere else,

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

> Why? that sounds like a setup for much more boring open world and story content.

>

> > its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

> I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game.

 

and im sorry to see a great game go down this way

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> if the majority liked that stuff, they would prolly still play the game

Numbers of players always decline for any game. New joiners are always less common than leavers. A clever game studio takes that into account and tries to do things that attract fresh blood and keep things interesting for those who remain.

 

> as it is, theyre purposefully making expansions for a smaller and smaller playerbase

Most of PoF is setup in ways that makes things easier for the majority. Only a tiny amount of content, worked on by a fraction of the dev team, focuses on a "smaller" playerbase... and that has attracted new players as well as retained interest for veterans.

 

> most of us dont get better..we just go somewhere else,

What's your evidence that "most of us" do anything in particular?

It's true that lots of people aren't interested in changing how they do things, but it's also true that lots of people want to keep being challenged. How do you know which group is larger?

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> On the one hand, I'd say great idea (same as I've always said when something like this is suggested).

>

> On the other, we have several examples from LS3 and PoF where the game explains a mechanic via dialogue, provides minor puzzles requiring its use, and then people still complain that they didn't know about it when they get to the subsequent boss fight.

>

> So yes, ANet should provide ways for players to learn key mechanics, including breaking defiance, balling up foes, condi removal, finishers, etc. But all the same, veterans shouldn't expect that this will mean much in the long run. As the proverb says,

> > You can give a mesmer a stun-break, but you can't make them blink.

 

How about a button to remotely smack a ranger everytime they press the 4 key or click anywhere near a particular section of their screen? >_>

 

There is knowing what CC is and then there is knowing when to use it. When to use depends on the encounter.

 

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > it should be a mechanism only for raids and other hardcore content

> Why? that sounds like a setup for much more boring open world and story content.

>

> > its one of the major reasons, why i dont play this game anymore

> I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game.

 

Meh. Reusing the same old CC gimmick on everything doesn't make for anything interesting either. The same anything everywhere is going to be boring. Requiring CC everywhere and not requiring CC anywhere is about the same in terms for interesting/boring. What is necessary is variety if you want to keep things interesting.

 

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> Just make them do the tangled depths meta where you are not supposed to CC but everyone does it anyway.

 

That is one of those things where reality is more nuanced. The problem with gerent is the encounter's design has internal conflicts. Breaking is theoretically good(it provides a significant damage boost) but due to the rest of the mob's design it is functionally bad(significantly increase the chance of wiping the group and lowered damage as a result of moving out of AoEs). Then you have SCAR where it doesn't matter. Then there is the fact that some classes will have a lot of soft CCs that get thrown around so the bar is going to break regardless.

[Ardid.7203]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> if the majority liked that stuff, they would prolly still play the game

> as it is, theyre purposefully making expansions for a smaller and smaller playerbase

> most of us dont get better..we just go somewhere else,

 

I don't know your majority, but my majority still plays the game and even CC things on a daily basis. Elaine's majority was having problems with raiding, lat time we talk about it, but she said It was just a phase. It would be interesting to know how is Joe's majority doing these days... Well I'm going to feed my pet majority now, I have to hurry if I want to visit my grandma's majority before it's too late for dinner. Bye!

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> CC has always meant Candy Canes to me. To any boss battle, I usually bring stacks of them, because my fellow players have great demand for them. ;)

>

> In other words, yes, explanation is needed. Just screaming CC is not going to bring any difference to players who do not know the abbreviation nor the concept.

 

That is basically willful ignorance. If someone asks there is generally an explanation of what CC is. That means if someone doesn't know and doesn't ask then they have chosen to remain ignorant about the topic. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.