Why does Anet want everyone to have 25 Might in PvP?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"Sunshine.5014" said:

> > The old Ele could stack 25 mights only by abusing sigil of battle and sigil of energy for extra Dodge blast. Both of them have been nerfed.

> >

> > I challenge people to show me an Ele duel with any other class where you can stack 25 mights at the moment.

>

> Yea, modern ele builds don't, I don't think anyone denies that. Ele was just one of the first builds that could stack to 25 on its own, but it made sacrifices in its actions to deliberately do that. Then HoT came out and builds got EZ 25 might without really having to modify their actions at all.

 

That's because they have to modify their traits.

 

Not every classes has fire fields and blast finishers on every weapon set.

 

 

 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

...

 

Steal/Corrupt/Null it?

 

Apply weakness?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > Damage is already way too high, why do they insist on making everyone be able to reach 25 might on their own?

> > * Necro (spite)

> You can't get 25 stack of might with just spite even if you spam shroud auto 24/7. Getting 25 stacks of might on a necro requires investing in might generating sigils, utilites, and runes, and even then it will be inconsistent.

 

You are thinking of the adept minor trait and forgetting about Awaken the Pain and Siphoned Power. Either way it doesn't matter.

 

Spite and Reaper have intentional synergy to allow Reapers to hulk out in shroud and then beat the crap out of the leftovers with gravedigger. Not only was that how the spec was advertised at release, it was also reiterated in the Nov 2017 update.

 

The people in this thread don't read the patch notes for classes they don't play.

 

 

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

 

Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

>

> Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

 

The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

> >

> > Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

>

> The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

 

I re-read the patch notes and yes, you are correct. I was misinformed. Heavily nerfed was way overstating things and most likely makes very little difference in the context of this thread.

[reikken.4961]

> @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > Damage is already way too high, why do they insist on making everyone be able to reach 25 might on their own?

> >

> > Currently these can do it:

> > * Ranger (druid)

> > * Engi (core and holo)

> > * Revenant

> > * Mesmer (illusions or bunker)

> > * Warrior (core)

> > * Necro (spite)

> > * Thief (deadeye

> >

> > The only classes that can't do it YET are guard and ele.

> >

> > Some years ago cele ele had to be gutted because they were able to stack 25 might in like 20 seconds. Now most classes can just do the same passively in seconds without effort. Why?

>

> actually ele was the first to be able to do it ... (remember celestial core D/D?) but it got nerfed several times (like dozens of times)

 

celestial ele is mentioned in the quote you are replying to

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

> > >

> > > Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

> >

> > The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

>

> I re-read the patch notes and yes, you are correct. I was misinformed. Heavily nerfed was way overstating things and most likely makes very little difference in the context of this thread.

 

Actually, you were misinformed that you were misinformed. Nefarious favor's cd was increased by 2. They added another cover boon to the game. And the effects for corrupting might, regeneration, vigor, and protection were reduced.

 

All of which are relevant to stacking might and then keeping said stacks without being hard countered.

 

 

[Swagg.9236]

Gems and esports, my dude.

[brannigan.9831]

There are actually very few builds that can get 25 might consistently without at least some of it coming from allies. And I can get 25 might on my guard and the build is plenty viable for solo rated.

[jalmari.3906]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > Damage is already way too high, why do they insist on making everyone be able to reach 25 might on their own?

> > > * Necro (spite)

> > You can't get 25 stack of might with just spite even if you spam shroud auto 24/7. Getting 25 stacks of might on a necro requires investing in might generating sigils, utilites, and runes, and even then it will be inconsistent.

>

> You are thinking of the adept minor trait and forgetting about Awaken the Pain and Siphoned Power. Either way it doesn't matter.

>

> Spite and Reaper have intentional synergy to allow Reapers to hulk out in shroud and then beat the crap out of the leftovers with gravedigger. Not only was that how the spec was advertised at release, it was also reiterated in the Nov 2017 update.

>

> The people in this thread don't read the patch notes for classes they don't play.

>

>

 

Might generation on reaper was sort of nerfed many times and you can't really self generate 25 stack all time reliably unless you go for strenght runes or something then you have to give up some other goodies for just might.

 

Personally I'd just go for more bursty 20+ something is enough than try to keep 25 all time (that also requires that you hit something so..)

 

Anyways spite might generation was obviously intended like said.. but my point is that it's not really something you want to obsess with. Looks good on paper, doesn't work in practice.

 

 

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"jalmari.3906" said:

> Looks good on paper, doesn't work in practice.

 

It's the opposite. It works in practice but is bad on paper. That's why this thread exists, people see classes quickly get 25 stacks and they don't understand the drawbacks of the build.

 

It's easy to get 25 stacks if you play a specific build with a specific rotation. It's easy to keep them if you destroy your survivability with concentration amulets. And it's easy to care about other classes enough to recognize when a mechanically easy action isn't trivial.

 

What isn't easy is for OP to know the word celestial yet still think it's smart to compare other classes to one with more fire fields than everyone else combined. I still don't understand how they did it.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > > > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

> > > >

> > > > Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

> > >

> > > The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

> >

> > I re-read the patch notes and yes, you are correct. I was misinformed. Heavily nerfed was way overstating things and most likely makes very little difference in the context of this thread.

>

> Actually, you were misinformed that you were misinformed. Nefarious favor's cd was increased by 2. They added another cover boon to the game. And the effects for corrupting might, regeneration, vigor, and protection were reduced.

>

> All of which are relevant to stacking might and then keeping said stacks without being hard countered.

 

The changes to nefarious favor cd only affect Path of Corruption. Scepter auto corrupt and Unending Corruption where not touched. Neither where the boon rip capabilities of Punishment skills.

 

Scourge can still maintain 100% weakness uptime on a target if it wishes to, the only classes being able to avoid this are the 1-2 builds that constantly maintain so many different types of boons that targeting specific boons is impossible for the Scourge. However it's worth noting that those classes could do that before the patch so there is no difference.

 

 

[Aza.2105]

Once upon a time Guardian was suppose to be the only boon-centric class. Now every class is.

 

Thanks Anet

[Kahyos.1437]

This needs more attention

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> Once upon a time Guardian was suppose to be the only boon-centric class. Now every class is.

 

Next time you want to lie make it less obvious.

 

You can't have a boon-centric class because most classes predate boons. The correct word is buff. And Guardian only exists because being the only buff-centric class doesn't. It's the combination of three buff related classes.

 

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > > > > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

> > > > >

> > > > > Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

> > > >

> > > > The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

> > >

> > > I re-read the patch notes and yes, you are correct. I was misinformed. Heavily nerfed was way overstating things and most likely makes very little difference in the context of this thread.

> >

> > Actually, you were misinformed that you were misinformed. Nefarious favor's cd was increased by 2. They added another cover boon to the game. And the effects for corrupting might, regeneration, vigor, and protection were reduced.

> >

> > All of which are relevant to stacking might and then keeping said stacks without being hard countered.

>

>...Scepter auto corrupt and Unending Corruption where not touched...

 

The table was nerfed.

* The effects of 4 conversion were reduced. And they were each boons typically found on classes that perma high might stacks.

* Classes that can spam condition conversion now have access to alacrity from chill. Cd reduction is much more than useful than resistance to someone already talented at condition removal.

* Classes that can spam resistance could already give themselves alacrity, now they have more coverage for resistance if they choose.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > Once upon a time Guardian was suppose to be the only boon-centric class. Now every class is.

>

> Next time you want to lie make it less obvious.

>

> You can't have a boon-centric class because most classes predate boons. The correct word is buff. And Guardian only exists because being the only buff-centric class doesn't. It's the combination of three buff related classes.

 

Really now? Quoted from old gw2 patch notes:

 

"Guardian

The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage."

 

You can also watch this old video of anet devs talking about the state of the game where they refer to guardian as the boon-centric class:

 

 

"Guardian is "boon-centric". They are intended to be intentionally slow, with one or two abilities that bring them into the battle, but nothing to escape it. There aren't any immediate changes for them planned in the future, Arenanet feels the class is in a decent place with a variety of builds ranging from a group-boon bunkering build to a shadow-stepping aggressive damage dealing build. None of the players had any real issues with the class either."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > Once upon a time Guardian was suppose to be the only boon-centric class. Now every class is.

> >

> > Next time you want to lie make it less obvious.

> >

> > You can't have a boon-centric class because most classes predate boons. The correct word is buff. And Guardian only exists because being the only buff-centric class doesn't. It's the combination of three buff related classes.

>

> Really now? Quoted from old gw2 patch notes:

>

> "Guardian

> The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health

 

Thats weird because Elementalists have the same low innate health but with much lower armor. But they can't rely on boons because that's only Guardians.

 

> You can also watch this old video of anet devs talking about the state of the game where they refer to guardian as the boon-centric class:

>

>

> "Guardian is "boon-centric". They are intended to be intentionally slow, with one or two abilities that bring them into the battle, but nothing to escape it. There aren't any immediate changes for them planned in the future, Arenanet feels the class is in a decent place with a variety of builds ranging from a group-boon bunkering build to a shadow-stepping aggressive damage dealing build. None of the players had any real issues with the class either."

 

Fascinating so if people click on this link it won't be from a video published more than 2 years after Guardian was announced. Your transcription is definitely accurate because you used quotation marks. It won't be a guy stuttering and looking at the ceiling to come up with the words boon-centric. And at least someone was involved in designing Guardian?

 

Nope? More lies? Okay.

 

You should just read this and stop spinning your option as fact.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2011/01/31/behind-the-scenes-with-the-guild-wars-2-guardian-massivelys-in/

[Aza.2105]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

 

> You should just read this and stop spinning your option as fact.

 

It would be my opinion if I stated it. But it comes from Anet directly. But it seems you can't read since you are fixated on trying to create a debate out of nothing.

 

 

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lalainnia.3598" said:

> > > > > > > Did this thread suddenly pop up because scourge doesn't have nonstop corruption anymore? This might stacking has been a thing since HoT its nothing new

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Exactly this. Funny how Scourge corruption gets heavily nerfed and now might generation is suddenly a big problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only corruption what was changed on Scourge was Path of Corruption. All other boon rip in Scourge's kit is unchanged. Idk how you call that "heavily nerfed"

> > > >

> > > > I re-read the patch notes and yes, you are correct. I was misinformed. Heavily nerfed was way overstating things and most likely makes very little difference in the context of this thread.

> > >

> > > Actually, you were misinformed that you were misinformed. Nefarious favor's cd was increased by 2. They added another cover boon to the game. And the effects for corrupting might, regeneration, vigor, and protection were reduced.

> > >

> > > All of which are relevant to stacking might and then keeping said stacks without being hard countered.

> >

> >...Scepter auto corrupt and Unending Corruption where not touched...

>

> The table was nerfed.

> * The effects of 4 conversion were reduced. And they were each boons typically found on classes that perma high might stacks.

 

Which is meaningless because Scourge can still easily maintain 100% weakness uptime even with the nerfed durations.

> * Classes that can spam condition conversion now have access to alacrity from chill. Cd reduction is much more than useful than resistance to someone already talented at condition removal.

Please even if the chill is converted to alacrity within 1 second of being applied, that 1 second of 166% cooldown speed from the chill is going to increase their cooldowns far more than 2 seconds of 75% cooldown speed is going to reduce them.

> * Classes that can spam resistance could already give themselves alacrity, now they have more coverage for resistance if they choose.

Classes that can spam resistance:

1.) Warrior -> has no alacrity

2.) Mallyx rev -> You seriously going to bring renegade into this?

3.) There is no 3 because nobody else can "spam resistance"

 

[Swagg.9236]

Easiest way to powercreep specs into p2w territory was to max out on the generic, shallow boon system that everyone used. After that happened, powercreep went directly into damage coefficients and invulnerability spam.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I don't like this either. might stax should requite combo fields + finishers.

[apharma.3741]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"Zintrothen.1056" said:

> > Ele can do it.

> >

> > But seriously, I know what you mean, OP. The ability to stack 25 might should only be doable if you stack concentration. Skills and traits alone should not be capable of doing it, at least not for more than a few seconds.

>

> Ele can't really do it in a viable way. Sure, you can say "you are restricted to sitting in a fire field and blasting multiple times over the course of 20s to keep them rolling! However, most specs just get 25 might handed to them passively, or through ability usage. There isn't anything like having to deliberately modify your actions. You just have a holo and do your thing and bam! 20-25 might appears for free! Anet handed out might to those who ontime didn't have it like candy, and made it so that those that had to build it deliberately are now left in the dust.

>

> Its pointless to combo a fire field to stack might nowadays, because everyone does rediculous damage without them, or already passively stacked 25. Back in the day (before the initial trait rework), might was something that most builds could stack to maybe 10-12, so nobody was reaching 25 without help. Prot was also something that you had...maybe 30-40% uptime on (which was high). Now there are so many builds that just have perma-everything its disgusting. Power creep really turned something that was intersting (boons, combo fields) into something that many builds are just expected to have for free.

 

Well said.