cMirage is Super Fun!

[tnhalbertsma.7682]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > @Vahn.9351 said:

> > > It's pretty obvious from the first message that fun doesn't come with build for OP, and it's the same for me.

> > > I don't need my class to be Meta or to have the best rotation for it to be fun.

> > >

> > > Coming on someone's topic who says "I have fun with this spec ! I love shattering things !" And telling him that he should not be shattering because it's bad is indeed off topic whether you people realize it or not.

> > >

> > > I can understand why you would want someone to play it in a different way that is more optimal, but really not all players are looking for this. Some just want to have fun, as would Cyndi Lauper say. Really, thank you for trying to help but in the end it's not what this thread is looking for.

> > >

> > > Build optimization talk has no place here on this topic so please do the OP, and everyone else who just wants to have fun and spread the joy without being optimal, a favor and stop talking about whether he should be using this build or that one.

> > > Fun comes in many shapes (I have a Level 80 Thief and still enjoy Mirage's mobility more, it's just my cup of tea where I'm bored with Thief) and we clearly don't have the same one, it happens, no big deals, none is mad or hurt, just move along to another thread and let us be fools who have fun.

> > >

> > > No need to reply to each other in a way that keeps the build talk/optimization going. Please. Not in this thread.

> > >

> > > Thank you for your understanding.

> >

> > We get it, you like to have fun at other's expense since they have to carry your "fun specs". You're the guy that makes Axemaster take 10 minutes instead of 2-3 in Dragon Stand.

>

> sad thing is we are not even talking about raid build we are talking about how mechanics conflict with each other in this case its shatter vs IH or

> rng teleport axe 3 which requires you in melee range to get its dmg .

> its more like we are trying to get bugged event fixed while they are saying : we enjoy failing event coz we barely experience failure in open world , we have fun , you guys go away .

 

Kidding? It's more like "Hey I find Mirage fun for this and this reason!"

 

Then some people reply with "I know right! I just do this and that differently, it might work wonders for you too, give it a shot!"

 

And then there's some people like you, going "What the hell, how can you play this crap, this is actually horrible and Anet should do something about it"

 

And the one guy, the most hilarious one of all, saying "You're having fun with something that's bad, how fucking dare you making us tryhards suffer for something you filthy casuals find 'enjoyable', disgusting."

 

Just lol.

 

[Refia Montes.3205]

Ignorance is bliss, ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Some people can't just look beyond the 'Mirage'

[Levetty.1279]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> Maaaan powe mirage is fun as well. I didnt erxpect it but axe and utils have some good scaling.

 

Axe has some of the weakest power scaling in the game.

[tnhalbertsma.7682]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> Ignorance is bliss, ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ Some people can't just look beyond the 'Mirage'

 

Way simpler. Just a matter of perspective.

[Nyel.1843]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

> > > @Aorin.9168 said:

> > > In my build, shatter and crits grant vigor, so I can use mirage cloak and ambush skills pretty frequently.

> >

> > Running practically the same build. I'm running a Power spec though, so I don't see the use in Illusion? I feel like it's more oriented towards Condition specs, and Mirage probably benefits most from Domination/Dueling/Mirage, don't you think? New to Mesmer though, so I may very well be wrong here

> >

> > Edit: nvm, seems you're going hybrid-ish?

> >

> >

> > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > shatter often then you lose your dmg , i dont know if you are trolling or what ? the ambush skill is not good enough to shatter illusion for vigor alone .if you mean , you use shatter as main dmg source while ambush are bonus then sure . but that way you could just run chrono which works far better with shatter .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How? Just don't Shatter right as you stack up to 3 illusions, but Shatter when your other cooldowns have lowered and your illusions have already dealt some damage/applied conditions. Then some abilities and you'll be back to having three illusions, ready for the next cycle.

>

> dude , everyone is telling you its not worth to shatter , its a fact with hard numbers in pve . and in pvp , 3 illusion lol , you joke right ? that't not practical to build up illusions and wait to shatter . chrono kinda fixed this issue , now with mirage you dont have chrono line , building up illusion and wait them to do dmg then shatter is not gonna work in most cases .also then again . whats the point of ambush for your build .

>

 

What about trying and experimenting instead of claiming "it's not working"?

[musu.9205]

> @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

> > @musu.9205 said:

> > > @Vahn.9351 said:

> > > It's pretty obvious from the first message that fun doesn't come with build for OP, and it's the same for me.

> > > I don't need my class to be Meta or to have the best rotation for it to be fun.

> > >

> > > Coming on someone's topic who says "I have fun with this spec ! I love shattering things !" And telling him that he should not be shattering because it's bad is indeed off topic whether you people realize it or not.

> > >

> > > Build optimization talk has no place here on this topic so please do the OP, and everyone else who just wants to have fun and spread the joy without being optimal, a favor and stop talking about whether he should be using this build or that one.

> > > Fun comes in many shapes and we clearly don't have the same one, it happens, no big deals, none is mad or hurt, just move along to another thread and let us be fools who have fun.

> > >

> > > No need to reply to each other in a way that keeps the build talk/optimization going. Please. Not in this thread.

> > >

> > > Thank you for your understanding.

> >

> > I did not just talk about being useful . you can check my post . i talked about how few things he found fun don't work well . or something simply has flaw in its function .

> >

> > talk about build =/= optimization or aim for meta .

> > i did not say he should not shatter , i said shatter will waste all his dmg resource , and explained why mirage has limited ambush while also ambush is not worth which is a flaw in his build .you can change my words all you want . but telling people something isn't working well for certain reasons is far from telling them what they should do . for the worst i said he could play DD for better result .did i even use word "should "?

>

> How do you never have illusions? I get three with just the Sword abilities. That's not counting ALL the other sources that'll give me illusions.

>

> You make it sound like it's a gigantic hassle to get illusions, doesn't seem to have been the case for me?

 

not good enough for the trade off or meaningful enough to create new playstyle is what im saying , for old school shatter , it did not have enough illusion generation build in its skill or trait line . anything else you use come with a cost . your resource is not endless .

look at how chrono works ,you shatter , then your phant will stay and you can have shorter cd for all skills .you don't need to trait DE for illusion generation .thats what i meant .

we are talking about a meaningful build not some troll one which use up slot and traits for one single purpose - illusion generation .even for a troll build chrono does it better .> @Nyel.1843 said:

> > @musu.9205 said:

> > > @tnhalbertsma.7682 said:

> > > > @Aorin.9168 said:

> > > > In my build, shatter and crits grant vigor, so I can use mirage cloak and ambush skills pretty frequently.

> > >

> > > Running practically the same build. I'm running a Power spec though, so I don't see the use in Illusion? I feel like it's more oriented towards Condition specs, and Mirage probably benefits most from Domination/Dueling/Mirage, don't you think? New to Mesmer though, so I may very well be wrong here

> > >

> > > Edit: nvm, seems you're going hybrid-ish?

> > >

> > >

> > > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > shatter often then you lose your dmg , i dont know if you are trolling or what ? the ambush skill is not good enough to shatter illusion for vigor alone .if you mean , you use shatter as main dmg source while ambush are bonus then sure . but that way you could just run chrono which works far better with shatter .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How? Just don't Shatter right as you stack up to 3 illusions, but Shatter when your other cooldowns have lowered and your illusions have already dealt some damage/applied conditions. Then some abilities and you'll be back to having three illusions, ready for the next cycle.

> >

> > dude , everyone is telling you its not worth to shatter , its a fact with hard numbers in pve . and in pvp , 3 illusion lol , you joke right ? that't not practical to build up illusions and wait to shatter . chrono kinda fixed this issue , now with mirage you dont have chrono line , building up illusion and wait them to do dmg then shatter is not gonna work in most cases .also then again . whats the point of ambush for your build .

> >

>

> What about trying and experimenting instead of claiming "it's not working"?

 

we tried . we also listed reasons here why it doesn't work well .

i tested more builds than what op did . both for power level and function .

so far sword interrupt power build is the most smooth build for mirage even it has issue .

HI doesnt have enough number for pve , and clone becomes a problem in pvp well it still is not reliable

about teleport . we all tested them out for many builds . axe still teleport you randomly or facing opposite of your target that way you lose the dmg from it . it is what "its not working "means unless you think that rng fails you half of the time is fun . IA is also rng .

sustain /bunker build etc ,you still need inspiration line to get enough sustain but either way mirage doesnt have defensive weapon like shield to last long or any trait to avoid instantly burst from thief , tho stunbreak on dodge helps a lot for that .

 

gw2 is not anything that complicated , as long as we know the traits , we know the fate of mirage .and tbh , the actual test is even worse than what we thought on paper . but welp you can still stare at "mirage".i can have my real fun build on holosmith

 

[zealex.9410]

> @Levetty.1279 said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > Maaaan powe mirage is fun as well. I didnt erxpect it but axe and utils have some good scaling.

>

> Axe has some of the weakest power scaling in the game.

 

It has way lower cds than sword to somewhat balance that. Also im sayiang it feels nice in open world pve u wouldnt take this in instance content.

[redcomyn.4651]

I am also having a lot of fun with the Mirage, using Axe/Torch. And it does kill fast and it is very survivable. I and one other guy, an elementalist, fought the champ giant in the Straits of Devastation. We killed it in about 10 to 15 minutes. I never once came even close to dying, and I was in melee range the entire fight. If I had tried to use chrono with a sword, I would have died quite a few times.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> I haven't touched it outside the demo, which was more than enough, and won't until it's completely redesigned. As it is, our past, present, and future is written in stone: Chrono two years ago, Chrono now, Chrono apparently forever.

 

It's not all that uncommon in MMORPGs. At some point you start realizing that the only way to get class balance done in your raids properly is to give some classes some vital raid buffs or debuffs. Ideally spread so that everyone brings something and no one is absolutely required (hence the whole Firebrand thing!).

 

On the flipside however, this usually means those classes start acquiring a "raid spec". That's how you spec for raids, period. But of course, most games don't add a spec line to each class per expansion, so for them this is a once-and-done problem.

 

For Guild Wars 2, this is an ongoing struggle. As soon as someone gets their "PvE spec", they're effectively done being designed because that's their core non-damage function in raids, right there.

[Zenith.7301]

> @Carighan.6758 said:

> > @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> > I haven't touched it outside the demo, which was more than enough, and won't until it's completely redesigned. As it is, our past, present, and future is written in stone: Chrono two years ago, Chrono now, Chrono apparently forever.

>

> It's not all that uncommon in MMORPGs. At some point you start realizing that the only way to get class balance done in your raids properly is to give some classes some vital raid buffs or debuffs. Ideally spread so that everyone brings something and no one is absolutely required (hence the whole Firebrand thing!).

>

> On the flipside however, this usually means those classes start acquiring a "raid spec". That's how you spec for raids, period. But of course, most games don't add a spec line to each class per expansion, so for them this is a once-and-done problem.

>

> For Guild Wars 2, this is an ongoing struggle. As soon as someone gets their "PvE spec", they're effectively done being designed because that's their core non-damage function in raids, right there.

 

WoW DPS class performance delta stay around 10%. In FFXIV it goes no larger than 5%. Not all classes have utility buffs.

 

The difference is developers over there actually make an effort to balance class performance in PvE, where in this game that is an afterthought as these developers design for PvP first, WVW second, and instanced high end PvE last.

[zealex.9410]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> > @Carighan.6758 said:

> > > @"Arshay Duskbrow.1306" said:

> > > I haven't touched it outside the demo, which was more than enough, and won't until it's completely redesigned. As it is, our past, present, and future is written in stone: Chrono two years ago, Chrono now, Chrono apparently forever.

> >

> > It's not all that uncommon in MMORPGs. At some point you start realizing that the only way to get class balance done in your raids properly is to give some classes some vital raid buffs or debuffs. Ideally spread so that everyone brings something and no one is absolutely required (hence the whole Firebrand thing!).

> >

> > On the flipside however, this usually means those classes start acquiring a "raid spec". That's how you spec for raids, period. But of course, most games don't add a spec line to each class per expansion, so for them this is a once-and-done problem.

> >

> > For Guild Wars 2, this is an ongoing struggle. As soon as someone gets their "PvE spec", they're effectively done being designed because that's their core non-damage function in raids, right there.

>

> WoW DPS class performance delta stay around 10%. In FFXIV it goes no larger than 5%. Not all classes have utility buffs.

>

> The difference is developers over there actually make an effort to balance class performance in PvE, where in this game that is an afterthought as these developers design for PvP first, WVW second, and instanced high end PvE last.

 

There are so many thing that are wrong with this forum post the biggest being wvw and balance in the same post.

[msalakka.4653]

> @Aorin.9168 said:

> I care not for raid viability, high level fractals, whether its "meta" or not, whether it "is better" than other specs. It's fun to play. This is a game right? I ENJOY this spec. It's effective enough that it doesnt kitten; it can kill things rather quickly, has good survivability and can solo Champs and HP's in Maguuma.

>

> You can tell me its trash all you want but I'm having fun playing it and that's all that matters to me as far as a video GAME is concerned.

>

> Man this community is toxic. I came here to leave feedback for devs and I get railed on :(

 

Even core Ranger works in open world pve. Take your Mirage to WvW and see how much fun you have then.

[Makai.3429]

> @Aorin.9168 said:

> I care not for raid viability, high level fractals, whether its "meta" or not, whether it "is better" than other specs. It's fun to play. This is a game right? I ENJOY this spec. It's effective enough that it doesnt kitten; it can kill things rather quickly, has good survivability and can solo Champs and HP's in Maguuma.

>

> You can tell me its trash all you want but I'm having fun playing it and that's all that matters to me as far as a video GAME is concerned.

>

> Man this community is toxic. I came here to leave feedback for devs and I get railed on :(

 

Well, I appreciate you sharing your builds. I've found Mirage to be a blast in open world. (Also, some of us forum untouchables are starting our own club - you should join us and have fun without fear of being judged.)

 

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

> @Aorin.9168 said:

> I care not for raid viability, high level fractals, whether its "meta" or not, whether it "is better" than other specs.

 

Well then Mirage is perfect for you :)

Problem is that it is not that great for people who want to play any other content then open world pve... (and tbh open world pve is perfectly playeble by any base class without traits).

[Refia Montes.3205]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> Also, some of us forum untouchables are starting our own club - you should join us and have fun without fear of being judged.

The only reason we like to shit on Mirage is to make it better. We're also Mesmer mains that wants to love the spec and wants it to shine as a selfish dps/deceptive spec that is. Fun is subjective. And not everyone wants to have fun being underpowered.

 

 

 

[Makai.3429]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > Also, some of us forum untouchables are starting our own club - you should join us and have fun without fear of being judged.

> The only reason we like to kitten on Mirage is to make it better. We're also Mesmer mains that wants to love the spec and wants it to shine as a selfish dps/deceptive spec that is. Fun is subjective. And not everyone wants to have fun being underpowered.

>

>

>

 

Oh, I don't disagree with Mirage being underwhelming in some areas (power is clunky; some effects need to be baseline). I just wanted to pass on some advice to someone who's in my same situation and get some positivity going.

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

And not everyone wants to have fun being underpowered.

>

 

Don't worry little Mirage just remember what mommy said - these other kids are not laughing at you! They are laughing with you! :dissapointed_relieved:

[Carighan.6758]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> WoW DPS class performance delta stay around 10%. In FFXIV it goes no larger than 5%. Not all classes have utility buffs.

>

> The difference is developers over there actually make an effort to balance class performance in PvE, where in this game that is an afterthought as these developers design for PvP first, WVW second, and instanced high end PvE last.

 

This wasn't about the DPS. DPS is a dime a dozen, it doesn't matter. It's about **wanting** a specific class in a raid. Or at least some of a group of classes. By giving them unique raid-benefiting buffs or debuffs.

[FaboBabo.3581]

"look at how chrono works ,you shatter , then your phant will stay and you can have shorter cd for all skills .you don't need to trait DE for illusion generation .thats what i meant ."

 

Therefore u have to trait chronophantasms.... Mirrages traits self deceptions and has more illusions then he could shatter....like really , after playing it , i've cut DE for Ineptitude.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> > @Aorin.9168 said:

> > I care not for raid viability, high level fractals, whether its "meta" or not, whether it "is better" than other specs. It's fun to play. This is a game right? I ENJOY this spec. It's effective enough that it doesnt kitten; it can kill things rather quickly, has good survivability and can solo Champs and HP's in Maguuma.

> >

> > You can tell me its trash all you want but I'm having fun playing it and that's all that matters to me as far as a video GAME is concerned.

> >

> > Man this community is toxic. I came here to leave feedback for devs and I get railed on :(

>

> Well, I appreciate you sharing your builds. I've found Mirage to be a blast in open world. (Also, some of us forum untouchables are starting our own club - you should join us and have fun without fear of being judged.)

>

 

Cele trinket Mirrage is ready to join!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAnf8anELD1LjFpBmpBMMjlXDDNAkTeOlVgeTwxv/VATgA-jVSHQBC4JAwIVCCq6OhY/h6oEEAnAgmo8beHEgbqfIAACwMLzysMDm5Mn5Mn5M76ycmzcmzcmzcmzcmlCoKlVA-w

Open World / WvW - build

Originally i took Cele trinkets, cause i was 100% sure Mirage mantle would be reworked into barrier or a Heal...misscalculating here, but still i got the feeling as if the stats aren't lost. Vita/ toughness, power/preci/fero + condi dmg is always nice to have, while the healing power is just the flat bonus. (if u didnt know until now ; cle gear has rougly 20% higher total stats then 3 stat or 4 stat gear. for example asc cele amulett has a total of 504 stats , while Berserk for example only has 388 and viper has 408)

[Ithilwen.1529]

@OP I don't agree. I desperately want to like Mirage.. but it feels confused to me. Perhaps with a few days' experience, I don't know.

[zealex.9410]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> @OP I don't agree. I desperately want to like Mirage.. but it feels confused to me. Perhaps with a few days' experience, I don't know.

 

Its mad fun in pvp.

[redcomyn.4651]

Those of you who say that mirage is bad in pvp, raids, and wvw, I will believe you that you are right. However, the OP was stating how he felt about mirage from his point of view, i.e. in open world. Then you all immediately jump in and start ragging on him for it. And you just said, yourself, that it works just fine in open world. The OP wasn't making any comment about pvp, etc. So why don't you just start your own thread to rage about mirage in your chosen game mode?

[atlashugged.7642]

> @redcomyn.4651 said:

> Those of you who say that mirage is bad in pvp, raids, and wvw, I will believe you that you are right.

 

They're definitely wrong about mirage being bad in pvp or wvw. It may be bad in pve (damage tests that I've seen indicate that it's better than condie dps base). What you're seeing on this forum is overwhelming and unreasonable negativity.

 

 

[Zenith.7301]

> @Carighan.6758 said:

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > WoW DPS class performance delta stay around 10%. In FFXIV it goes no larger than 5%. Not all classes have utility buffs.

> >

> > The difference is developers over there actually make an effort to balance class performance in PvE, where in this game that is an afterthought as these developers design for PvP first, WVW second, and instanced high end PvE last.

>

> This wasn't about the DPS. DPS is a dime a dozen, it doesn't matter. It's about **wanting** a specific class in a raid. Or at least some of a group of classes. By giving them unique raid-benefiting buffs or debuffs.

 

The point is, there's no need to want a specific class for a raid when the DPS is well balanced among builds to where "take the player, not the class" is actually true.

 

People don't want a druid just because his buffs are unique. People want a druid because the group output increase druid provides is unmatched. If some other healer healed like a druid and did 15k more DPS on top, people would bring that class as an alternative to druid.

 

In the end, this game is always about maximizing DPS. Active defenses have made survival trivial, so the only thing that matters is how fast you can get past boss phases.