Israel.7056 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts. > > > > > > > > > > Which, again, is asking for something to be essentially free. Why would ANet even think to do this if it doesn't make them any money? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then make it cost a lot of gems I don't care. > > > > > > Which you can still pay no real cash for because of the profits in gold you make in selling legendaries > > > > So what? > > So ANet won't make any money on your suggestion which is probably why they won't do it. Just because they probably won't make any money off me doesn't mean they couldn't make money off of other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > I have a question. > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it.. > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards. This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable." Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts. Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > I have a question. > > > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it.. > > > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards. > > This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable." > > Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts. > > Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy. > Let me just say then that I find this particular quest of yours to have the game changed so that an optional questing system gets an I Win Button with all rewards handed out is misguided at the very minimum, especially a questing system that has a major endgame reward tied to it. 1) the game already allows you a way to collaborate with other players who have done the quests and are willing to partner up. 2) MMOs are all about the grind. If you don’t like that grind go do something else that you do like. Don’t ask for a way to press a button and win with all rewards so you can make a profit faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I do agree Core maps have waaaay too many hearts, people often ends up fed up with the game trying to complete them all, thinking that's what they are supposed to do, often ignoring events and the like. But I completely disagree with adding an item to skip them. What I think would be a way better solution is not requiring those hearts, and using a method similar to the new maps with less, more spread repeatable hearts. So, I'd change the color of the existing hearts in core maps to a bluish silver, and add repeatable golden hearts that are completed by doing hearts and events withing the whole heart. All reusing existing NPCs with interesting dialogs as the new 'hosts' of the repeatable hearts. Take, for instance, Queensdale. It has a whooping 17 hearts. WAY too many. So I'd group them like this, with the following NPCs as the Renown Heart NPC: * Shaemoor Village and Farms - Mayor North * Help Diah tend her farm (2) * Help Fisher Travis maintain the river (2) * Help Foreman Flannum improve dam safety (3) * Assist Farmer Eda with her orchard (4) * Help Cassie around the moa ranch (5) * Shaemoor Outskirts - Lieutenant Ryder * Assist the Seraph at Shaemoor Garrison (6) * Assist Laborer Cardy and Ojon's lumbermill (8) * Assist Hunter Block and the hunting lodge (9) * Claypool - Lord Mayor Johlin * Help Lexi Price protect the trade route (7) * Train with the militia (8) * Help the Seraph protect Claypool from centaurs (9) * Beetletun - Lord Jonas * Assist Fisherman Will and the fishermen of Beetletun (10) * Protect Beetletun farmers from Tamini centaurs (12) * Help the citizens of Beetletun maintain their town (13) * Southeast Wilderness - Abbot Mathias * Keep the monastery operational (11) * Unite the ettins (14) * Help Historian Garrod investigate Godslost Swamp (15) Then only the new Repeatable renown hearts would count for map completion and world completion, but the demoted silver hearts stay unchanged. So you'd only need 5 hearts instead 17 to complete the map, and you would be able to complete each by doing any events, hearts and random good deeds like reviving NPCs within the entire repeatable heart. This way the problem is solved by adding things on top of what's already there, without having to do massive reworks or removing hearts from maps. Still a lot of work, but way less than redesigning the map completely or removing hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhern.6097 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just an idea from someone getting a little exhausted from doing map completion. I'd appreciate an item that completes core Tyria hearts. Maybe even something that gives you a boost while doing them to complete them faster. Maybe make it something you unlock when you've done your first map completion. After that you can choose to use it for all other toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 We already had a thread about this. Virtually everyone in thread came out against it. Why make a second thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > I have a question. > > > > > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it.. > > > > > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards. > > > > This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable." > > > > Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts. > > > > Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy. > > > > Let me just say then that I find this particular quest of yours to have the game changed so that an optional questing system gets an I Win Button with all rewards handed out is misguided at the very minimum, especially a questing system that has a major endgame reward tied to it. > > 1) the game already allows you a way to collaborate with other players who have done the quests and are willing to partner up. > 2) MMOs are all about the grind. If you don’t like that grind go do something else that you do like. Don’t ask for a way to press a button and win with all rewards so you can make a profit faster. Alright well thanks for your feedback I fundamentally disagree. 1. Nothing would be stopping people from continuing to do hearts if they chose to. Last I checked people still seem to do hero challenges even though they don't have to anymore. 2. I don't share your values so I don't see anything wrong with asking for a way to skip around content I find boring. I like the idea of doing content you actually like to pay to skip content you don't. I really would like to see more of that in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > I have a question. > > > > > > > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it.. > > > > > > > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards. > > > > > > This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable." > > > > > > Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts. > > > > > > Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy. > > > > > > > Let me just say then that I find this particular quest of yours to have the game changed so that an optional questing system gets an I Win Button with all rewards handed out is misguided at the very minimum, especially a questing system that has a major endgame reward tied to it. > > > > 1) the game already allows you a way to collaborate with other players who have done the quests and are willing to partner up. > > 2) MMOs are all about the grind. If you don’t like that grind go do something else that you do like. Don’t ask for a way to press a button and win with all rewards so you can make a profit faster. > > Alright well thanks for your feedback I fundamentally disagree. > > 1. Nothing would be stopping people from continuing to do hearts if they chose to. Last I checked people still seem to do hero challenges even though they don't have to anymore. > > 2. I don't share your values so I don't see anything wrong with asking for a way to skip around content I find boring. > > I like the idea of doing content you actually like to pay to skip content you don't. I really would like to see more of that in the game. You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. Shocking I know but dont it work like this everywere? I dont get paid from my work laying on the beach tanning, I find tanning fun and relaxing and work not so much fun or relaxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. Yes I do. In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1. These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me. EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. > > Yes I do. > > In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1. > > These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me. > > EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life. Maybe I should start a thread asking for a way to get wvw levels in pve for like airship parts or trade contracts or the like its such a boring thing to grind in wvw. Dont sound reasonable to me but going by this thread its anything goes. And while we are at it put in first place in a tournament without having to do the spvp tournies too since why should I have to do boring spvp content for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trise.2865 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 If you only ever play WvW and PvP, why do you care about map completion? Don't like that content, don't do it. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Trise.2865" said: > If you only ever play WvW and PvP, why do you care about map completion? Don't like that content, don't do it. Simple as that. Because the OP wants a faster/easier path to crafting and selling legendaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. > > > > Yes I do. > > > > In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1. > > > > These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me. > > > > EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life. > > Maybe I should start a thread asking for a way to get wvw levels in pve for like airship parts or trade contracts or the like its such a boring thing to grind in wvw. > Dont sound reasonable to me but going by this thread its anything goes. > And while we are at it put in first place in a tournament without having to do the spvp tournies too since why should I have to do boring spvp content for that. Those all seem reasonable requests to me but they're the subject for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > I have a question. > > > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it.. > > > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards. > > This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable." > > Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts. > > Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy. > Actually Just a flesh wound has a major point.. any reputable game shouldn't / wouldn't allow such a pay to win feature to become the way forward. Of course you could disprove his point by at least naming a few that you deem reputable and provide a core game feature P2W scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. > > > > > > Yes I do. > > > > > > In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1. > > > > > > These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me. > > > > > > EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life. > > > > Maybe I should start a thread asking for a way to get wvw levels in pve for like airship parts or trade contracts or the like its such a boring thing to grind in wvw. > > Dont sound reasonable to me but going by this thread its anything goes. > > And **while we are at it put in first place in a tournament without having to do the spvp tournies too** since why should I have to do boring spvp content for that. > > **Those all seem reasonable requests to me** but they're the subject for another thread. Handing out first place in sPvP tournaments to those who don’t play but do pay. I think that pretty well sums up the OPs unwillingness to see the harm in his suggestion. As long as he can get the gold faster nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Doing the hearts is a form of grind, and all MMOs have got to have lots of grind in them simply to keep players busy. The hearts also provide a mechanism for keeping low level zones full of players which makes the game look a lot better to new players. Nothing worse than a world that has no one in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlin Sanders.3587 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Wish granted, you can now pay a heart NPC 5 gold to completely fill their request, voiding the rewards behind completing said heart and locking the merchant options for 24 hours. nothing beats having to help out like hiring others to help out! (Do you have any idea how expensive it is to hire mercenaries to put down their swords and pick apples? first they want wages, and then they want to form a union...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaquento.5384 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it. > > Yes I do. > > In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1. > > These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me. > > EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life. well, buying Hero points in WvW is possible because they are needed to get the specializations, and waypoints are needed to fast travel across the map and get to the events you want to do without having to walk all the way there. they are not available just to skip parts of world completion, hearts are only needed for world completion, nothing that keeps you from playing the mode you want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard.8150 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Celsith.2753" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > @"Israel.7056" said: > > > To any ANET people reading this thread: I would buy gems for this item, that's how much it would be worth to me and I'm sure many others would buy gems for this as well. > > > > Translation: Dear ANet, I will gladly pay-to-win. > > > > Perhaps, it would benefit you and the community more if you asked for the Hearts to be more rewarding or worth your time instead? > > > > Having already done map completion at least 8x I support the option to buy heart completion even if its with gems. We can unlock the waypoints with gems so why not? My answer to that would be something akin to "since this allows you to unlock the general vicinity of the hearts, and thus cuts down on the transportation time on an unexplored map, you don't really need the item to unlock the hearts w/out doing them". When I look at how this system is set up, compared to other MMOs, I have to wonder "How lazy are people really these days?", since you can literally just stand by the NPC and get completions, if anyone is working on that heart when you show up. Kill one mob, turn in one item, and you're golden in some cases. Of course, as a new player, I'm not doing them for end game benefits, I'm doing them because I don't have millions of Karma built up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Palador.2170" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > Perhaps, it would benefit you and the community more if you asked for the Hearts to be more rewarding or worth your time instead? > > > > Yeah, I'm going to agree with this idea. > > The question is: How? I'd say by making them take less time. I'd love to see an account-bound tag per zone or for world completion that grants a bonus to all actions taken toward reputation. Some of those hearts take for-flipping-ever. While I wouldn't advocate a buy-to-win method of completing rep hearts, I would be very enthused to see a vendor item for karma or laurels that increases reputation gains by 100% for an hour. Or a cooking recipe. Or a guild hall option at the tavern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Lets really sum up this thread which is I want to get a gift of exploration but I dont want to have to do the work to get it. Aint going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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