sinject.4607 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 > @Solori.6025 said: > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > Full Counter is definitely the most over rewarding skill in the game right now. every other PoF Elite Spec isn’t a direct upgrade as Anet have been trying to do, yet it’s clear Spellbreaker and Scourge are head over heels better than their core/HoT counterparts. there’s a reason why this is easily the most viewed thread on the pvp forums as of late. > > > > > > > > > > do remember tho, berserker was nerfed so much it became worse than core warrior just before PoF. so comparing the two specialisations isn’t really fair. > > > > > > > > > > as far as full counter goes, is it worse than steal, continuum split etc? like it’s good, but it’s the only thing you get from spellbreaker- & you have to give up t2 & t3 bursts, which is a lot of cc/damage lost. so it should be a strong skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's such a steep investment then why does literally every person playing PoF Warrior go for it, and experience nothing but net gain? Anet actually did a really good job of making core specs viable, it was never something specific to warrior. Core thief can absolutely compete with HoT/PoF specs very easily, as can core ranger, guardian, etc. > > > > > > > > *To compare Steal with Full Counter is a complete joke and really exemplifies how desperate you are to keep a broken mechanic intact.* > > > > > > > > baseline Steal: > > > > * a 1200 range teleport > > > > * mediocre single use skill IF it lands > > > > * on a 30 second cooldown. > > > > > > > > baseline Full Counter: > > > > * gives you full damage immunity for the duration of the attack and an additional 1/2 second after proc > > > > * an AoE UNBLOCKABLE attack that can crit for 3-4k+ > > > > * 2 seconds of stability > > > > * 1/2sec daze > > > > * on an 8 second cooldown > > > > > > > > to complain about having to invest in one traitline to make an already really strong skill even stronger is just a laughable joke when thief has needed trickery since the beginning of the game to make Steal even passable as a our only mechanic. > > > > > > I actually didn't buy the expac and am still playing gunflame or DH (I can just proc full counter from range and ignore it lol) , but yeah dude keep projecting. keep thinking it's personal bias, and continue with the attacks. it doesn't make you look good, and it's wrong so whatever. > > > > > > all I said was it's the elite spec's mechanic so it should be good, and that comparing it to berserker is unfair due to recent nerfs. like, I don't expect photon forge to be terrible, or any of the other mechanics. they should ideally be good. > > > > > > elite specs are meant to be upgrades. it's evidenced in the design, not in anet's vapid PR speak. so I expect the mechanics they add to be actually good. considering the utilities are poor, and the weapon isn't that great it's no surprise full counter is good, there's little reason other than that to pick the spec for pvp. > > > > > > core warrior is only good vs Berserker due to nerfs. don't kid yourself. also core thief and core ranger viable? lol maybe in a solo queue clown fiesta but not in a tournament. you would have to be.... god I don't even have a word... but if I did it would be a rude one, and I would use it to describe the level of intelligence somone would need to slot core thief or core ranger in a team. lol. > > > > > > tbh. I feel like you don't know anything if you think core ranger is a good pick, and honestly don't know why anyone would value your opinions on balance at all considering that. > > > > > > anyhow. it might well need shaves. I can't say 100%. but warrior is a class that is historically overnerfed in PvP. it gets reduced to dog tier all the time, and usually because of forum QQ. I would hate to see it happen another time. it's nice for things to be viable. > > > > literally everything you said is wrong and you've made it painfully obvious you're a low-tier player that hasn't made it out of bronze yet. > > > > Anet has clearly shown in their recent adjustments they now actually are attempting to make elite specs just another playstyle as opposed to direct upgrades, which is why people have issue with Spellbreaker/Scourge when almost every other PoF elite is on par with (or worse than) their core/HoT counterparts. core warrior and beserker are both fine, you guys just can't faceroll a stupid build that passively keeps you alive on them anymore and you wanna complain about it like it was the end of times and getting an overpowered PoF spec is only fair for all your hardships suffered at the evil hand of Anet lmao. > > > > and yes, just because people in your MMR range or you yourself are incapable of playing core Thief or Ranger doesn't mean its bad. i've played largely core s/d Thief since they made the changes to Acro and S/D and can easily beat Daredevils/Deadeyes and pretty much every other spec in the game. same goes for Ranger, which people have been playing for a while for it's damage capability over Druid's emphasis on sustain. > > > > > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > @Solori.6025 said: > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > > Full Counter is definitely the most over rewarding skill in the game right now. every other PoF Elite Spec isn’t a direct upgrade as Anet have been trying to do, yet it’s clear Spellbreaker and Scourge are head over heels better than their core/HoT counterparts. there’s a reason why this is easily the most viewed thread on the pvp forums as of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > do remember tho, berserker was nerfed so much it became worse than core warrior just before PoF. so comparing the two specialisations isn’t really fair. > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as full counter goes, is it worse than steal, continuum split etc? like it’s good, but it’s the only thing you get from spellbreaker- & you have to give up t2 & t3 bursts, which is a lot of cc/damage lost. so it should be a strong skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's such a steep investment then why does literally every person playing PoF Warrior go for it, and experience nothing but net gain? Anet actually did a really good job of making core specs viable, it was never something specific to warrior. Core thief can absolutely compete with HoT/PoF specs very easily, as can core ranger, guardian, etc. > > > > > > > > > > *To compare Steal with Full Counter is a complete joke and really exemplifies how desperate you are to keep a broken mechanic intact.* > > > > > > > > > > baseline Steal: > > > > > * a 1200 range teleport > > > > > * mediocre single use skill IF it lands > > > > > * on a 30 second cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > baseline Full Counter: > > > > > * gives you full damage immunity for the duration of the attack and an additional 1/2 second after proc > > > > > * an AoE UNBLOCKABLE attack that can crit for 3-4k+ > > > > > * 2 seconds of stability > > > > > * 1/2sec daze > > > > > * on an 8 second cooldown > > > > > > > > > > to complain about having to invest in one traitline to make an already really strong skill even stronger is just a laughable joke when thief has needed trickery since the beginning of the game to make Steal even passable as a our only mechanic. > > > > > > > > Isn't deadeye oneshotting people from range? > > > > Why are you comparing two opposite spectrums? > > > > Did you not look at the nerfs to berseker that made it worse than core warrior? > > > > I feel like you started this post with no clue about what you are even complaining about. > > > > > > > > Go deadeye and pick people off like everyone else that got PoF > > > > > > > > > > I know right? class that hits for 25-30k with one skill complains about 3-4k damage. > > > > > > then tells us core ranger is viable. > > > > > > who is this person? > > > > Deadeye can at most hit for 8-12k with a skill that is insanely avoidable, on a weaponset everyone is saying is useless, on an elite that is widely considered to be the worst in PvP period (see the: Which PoF Elite Do You Want Least On Your Team thread). Anyone who complains about Deadeye might as well excuse themselves from this discussion. I dunno who you think you are, but your IQ is probably around the same as warrior's APM. > > 1. I find it funny you can avoid a ranged bullet through all the animation clutter but cant avoid a character running towards you with a big yellow bubble around them. > Then find the audacity to complain about it. > 2. Since you cant read (because no where in my post did I say " deadeye is stronk) I'll take the IQ comment as you projecting and being terrible at the game that you came on the forums day 2 of the expac to wine (and cheese :P) about a melee bubble that has an obvious animation, and a weakness just like you pointed out for the DE > > You produce comedic gold I'll give you that. > "I can dodge a long range attack, but I really don't know what to do when I see a GIANT YELLOW BUBBLE walking towards me. please nerf" > > Edit:If you drop SA and go DA you can snipe upwards of 14k, this makes you a little more defensless against condies but, 1-2 shotting classes is funny to me found the moron that cant dodge death's judgement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Absolutely no nerf is needed because one simple trick allows you to evade full counter completely. Simply use a skill that lets you attack+evade or use a skill with a low aftercast and then queue an evade - full counter will not hit you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silinsar.6298 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I really do like full counter's mechanic. One thing I'd change though is to only make it trigger on direct attacks (meaning anything that doesn't stay on the ground and keeps attacking by itself). Triggering it by walking into any kind of field is just brain dead easy. Vs fields it should just keep blocking, which would still provide protection vs "mindless" AoE while not punishing players that actually do the right thing and stop attacking when Spellbreakers put their counters up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 > @"R E F L H E X.8413" said: > I think the guardian pull is one of the most ridiculous skills added to the game once you get hit and have the chain + reveal theres no counterplay/getting away. a stealth reliant character is an easy enough kill when in close range and has revealed on and getting pulled into random cleave+traps = for sure death for that stealth character. On top of this you cannot dodge the actual pull they will pull you mid dodge frame and it has like 5000 range you cant even go from collisseums mid to the exit ramps without being pulled. It pretty much interrupts dodge. > > After it pulls me i also get revealed in the middle of mid which is almost always instant death on mes or thief then once there you stay revealed after the pull it seems. Reveal should not stay after they pull you. Pulled into random cleave and traps then target called while staying revealed for someone who relies on stealth that is more than overkill. > > I'd rather be one shot by a deadeye than pulled into random cleave with revealed. Pull has a limited range. Teleport on demand (thief or mes) out of range, behind obstacle. If you let yourself get caught, well... it happens. If you found yourself in a situation where you didn't have a port to escape or an obstacle to hide behind... well it happens, nothing wrong about it. I don't play DH tho, but it has already been nerfed a bunch of times, leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 > @sinject.4607 said: > > @Solori.6025 said: > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > > Full Counter is definitely the most over rewarding skill in the game right now. every other PoF Elite Spec isn’t a direct upgrade as Anet have been trying to do, yet it’s clear Spellbreaker and Scourge are head over heels better than their core/HoT counterparts. there’s a reason why this is easily the most viewed thread on the pvp forums as of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > do remember tho, berserker was nerfed so much it became worse than core warrior just before PoF. so comparing the two specialisations isn’t really fair. > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as full counter goes, is it worse than steal, continuum split etc? like it’s good, but it’s the only thing you get from spellbreaker- & you have to give up t2 & t3 bursts, which is a lot of cc/damage lost. so it should be a strong skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's such a steep investment then why does literally every person playing PoF Warrior go for it, and experience nothing but net gain? Anet actually did a really good job of making core specs viable, it was never something specific to warrior. Core thief can absolutely compete with HoT/PoF specs very easily, as can core ranger, guardian, etc. > > > > > > > > > > *To compare Steal with Full Counter is a complete joke and really exemplifies how desperate you are to keep a broken mechanic intact.* > > > > > > > > > > baseline Steal: > > > > > * a 1200 range teleport > > > > > * mediocre single use skill IF it lands > > > > > * on a 30 second cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > baseline Full Counter: > > > > > * gives you full damage immunity for the duration of the attack and an additional 1/2 second after proc > > > > > * an AoE UNBLOCKABLE attack that can crit for 3-4k+ > > > > > * 2 seconds of stability > > > > > * 1/2sec daze > > > > > * on an 8 second cooldown > > > > > > > > > > to complain about having to invest in one traitline to make an already really strong skill even stronger is just a laughable joke when thief has needed trickery since the beginning of the game to make Steal even passable as a our only mechanic. > > > > > > > > I actually didn't buy the expac and am still playing gunflame or DH (I can just proc full counter from range and ignore it lol) , but yeah dude keep projecting. keep thinking it's personal bias, and continue with the attacks. it doesn't make you look good, and it's wrong so whatever. > > > > > > > > all I said was it's the elite spec's mechanic so it should be good, and that comparing it to berserker is unfair due to recent nerfs. like, I don't expect photon forge to be terrible, or any of the other mechanics. they should ideally be good. > > > > > > > > elite specs are meant to be upgrades. it's evidenced in the design, not in anet's vapid PR speak. so I expect the mechanics they add to be actually good. considering the utilities are poor, and the weapon isn't that great it's no surprise full counter is good, there's little reason other than that to pick the spec for pvp. > > > > > > > > core warrior is only good vs Berserker due to nerfs. don't kid yourself. also core thief and core ranger viable? lol maybe in a solo queue clown fiesta but not in a tournament. you would have to be.... god I don't even have a word... but if I did it would be a rude one, and I would use it to describe the level of intelligence somone would need to slot core thief or core ranger in a team. lol. > > > > > > > > tbh. I feel like you don't know anything if you think core ranger is a good pick, and honestly don't know why anyone would value your opinions on balance at all considering that. > > > > > > > > anyhow. it might well need shaves. I can't say 100%. but warrior is a class that is historically overnerfed in PvP. it gets reduced to dog tier all the time, and usually because of forum QQ. I would hate to see it happen another time. it's nice for things to be viable. > > > > > > literally everything you said is wrong and you've made it painfully obvious you're a low-tier player that hasn't made it out of bronze yet. > > > > > > Anet has clearly shown in their recent adjustments they now actually are attempting to make elite specs just another playstyle as opposed to direct upgrades, which is why people have issue with Spellbreaker/Scourge when almost every other PoF elite is on par with (or worse than) their core/HoT counterparts. core warrior and beserker are both fine, you guys just can't faceroll a stupid build that passively keeps you alive on them anymore and you wanna complain about it like it was the end of times and getting an overpowered PoF spec is only fair for all your hardships suffered at the evil hand of Anet lmao. > > > > > > and yes, just because people in your MMR range or you yourself are incapable of playing core Thief or Ranger doesn't mean its bad. i've played largely core s/d Thief since they made the changes to Acro and S/D and can easily beat Daredevils/Deadeyes and pretty much every other spec in the game. same goes for Ranger, which people have been playing for a while for it's damage capability over Druid's emphasis on sustain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > @Solori.6025 said: > > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > > > > > @sinject.4607 said: > > > > > > > > Full Counter is definitely the most over rewarding skill in the game right now. every other PoF Elite Spec isn’t a direct upgrade as Anet have been trying to do, yet it’s clear Spellbreaker and Scourge are head over heels better than their core/HoT counterparts. there’s a reason why this is easily the most viewed thread on the pvp forums as of late. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do remember tho, berserker was nerfed so much it became worse than core warrior just before PoF. so comparing the two specialisations isn’t really fair. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as full counter goes, is it worse than steal, continuum split etc? like it’s good, but it’s the only thing you get from spellbreaker- & you have to give up t2 & t3 bursts, which is a lot of cc/damage lost. so it should be a strong skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it's such a steep investment then why does literally every person playing PoF Warrior go for it, and experience nothing but net gain? Anet actually did a really good job of making core specs viable, it was never something specific to warrior. Core thief can absolutely compete with HoT/PoF specs very easily, as can core ranger, guardian, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > *To compare Steal with Full Counter is a complete joke and really exemplifies how desperate you are to keep a broken mechanic intact.* > > > > > > > > > > > > baseline Steal: > > > > > > * a 1200 range teleport > > > > > > * mediocre single use skill IF it lands > > > > > > * on a 30 second cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > baseline Full Counter: > > > > > > * gives you full damage immunity for the duration of the attack and an additional 1/2 second after proc > > > > > > * an AoE UNBLOCKABLE attack that can crit for 3-4k+ > > > > > > * 2 seconds of stability > > > > > > * 1/2sec daze > > > > > > * on an 8 second cooldown > > > > > > > > > > > > to complain about having to invest in one traitline to make an already really strong skill even stronger is just a laughable joke when thief has needed trickery since the beginning of the game to make Steal even passable as a our only mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > Isn't deadeye oneshotting people from range? > > > > > Why are you comparing two opposite spectrums? > > > > > Did you not look at the nerfs to berseker that made it worse than core warrior? > > > > > I feel like you started this post with no clue about what you are even complaining about. > > > > > > > > > > Go deadeye and pick people off like everyone else that got PoF > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know right? class that hits for 25-30k with one skill complains about 3-4k damage. > > > > > > > > then tells us core ranger is viable. > > > > > > > > who is this person? > > > > > > Deadeye can at most hit for 8-12k with a skill that is insanely avoidable, on a weaponset everyone is saying is useless, on an elite that is widely considered to be the worst in PvP period (see the: Which PoF Elite Do You Want Least On Your Team thread). Anyone who complains about Deadeye might as well excuse themselves from this discussion. I dunno who you think you are, but your IQ is probably around the same as warrior's APM. > > > > 1. I find it funny you can avoid a ranged bullet through all the animation clutter but cant avoid a character running towards you with a big yellow bubble around them. > > Then find the audacity to complain about it. > > 2. Since you cant read (because no where in my post did I say " deadeye is stronk) I'll take the IQ comment as you projecting and being terrible at the game that you came on the forums day 2 of the expac to wine (and cheese :P) about a melee bubble that has an obvious animation, and a weakness just like you pointed out for the DE > > > > You produce comedic gold I'll give you that. > > "I can dodge a long range attack, but I really don't know what to do when I see a GIANT YELLOW BUBBLE walking towards me. please nerf" > > > > Edit:If you drop SA and go DA you can snipe upwards of 14k, this makes you a little more defensless against condies but, 1-2 shotting classes is funny to me > > found the moron that cant dodge death's judgement Yup, that's totally what I said, I hear they have a program called hooked on phonics works great for kids with a k-2nd grade reading level and comprehension. I would recommend you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrgan.7401 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > Stop spamming your skillbar like a rabid monkey. Stop being bad. Thank god the game finally has an ability that punishes people who 12345. May all the bads finally find out just out truly bad they are - AMEN. > > This cant be said enough. If people weren't spamming all their abilities, this skill would be totally useless, but people are spamming like they have nothing else to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrgan.7401 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Loop.8106 said: > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said: > > > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > > Spellbreaker seems rather healthy for the game. I know I'm biased but look at it this way, it's so focused on countering specific mechanics **no matter what powercreep that gets introduced Spellbreaker should be able to minimize its effectiveness.** Does a build that's super boon heavy become OP? Top line of traits. Condis out of control? Revenge Counter with Berserker's Stance and Featherfoot Grace (still vulnerable to boon stealing/corruption). Is the enemy super mobile? There's Magebane Tether and all the mobility hampering traits. > > > > It can't counter everything at once however, and it's possible to be in a situation where your build isn't that useful against your enemy. Seems like a well thought out Spec from Robert. > > You dont see a problem with this? Of course I'm biased too as everything they introduce nowadays is unblockable and the one defense guards rely on are blocks. IE; Full Counter, and Break Enchantments being the biggest offenders. It makes it so mindless. > Many of the warriors that posted on this thread pointed out that Full Counter is healthy for the game because it promotes a gamestyle that's not "12345 spamming", but that's contradictory considering Warriors dont have to pay attention to Aegis / F3 blocks. I would be all for halving ALL the blocks in the game, but removing unblockable. Even remove the passive aegis from guards f3 in order for thieves to be able to do their initial burst. > > That being said, I do sincerelly think that the spellbreaker is a fun concept of a class. Although the class is overtuned at its current implementations. This is the worst idea. This game doesnt need more passive blocking. It needs people to stop being rabid, and 123457890 spammers. Bring the skill back, get the bads to get better, or stay in bronze/silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Kahrgan.7401 said: > > @Loop.8106 said: > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said: > > > > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > > > Spellbreaker seems rather healthy for the game. I know I'm biased but look at it this way, it's so focused on countering specific mechanics **no matter what powercreep that gets introduced Spellbreaker should be able to minimize its effectiveness.** Does a build that's super boon heavy become OP? Top line of traits. Condis out of control? Revenge Counter with Berserker's Stance and Featherfoot Grace (still vulnerable to boon stealing/corruption). Is the enemy super mobile? There's Magebane Tether and all the mobility hampering traits. > > > > > > It can't counter everything at once however, and it's possible to be in a situation where your build isn't that useful against your enemy. Seems like a well thought out Spec from Robert. > > > > You dont see a problem with this? Of course I'm biased too as everything they introduce nowadays is unblockable and the one defense guards rely on are blocks. IE; Full Counter, and Break Enchantments being the biggest offenders. It makes it so mindless. > > Many of the warriors that posted on this thread pointed out that Full Counter is healthy for the game because it promotes a gamestyle that's not "12345 spamming", but that's contradictory considering Warriors dont have to pay attention to Aegis / F3 blocks. I would be all for halving ALL the blocks in the game, but removing unblockable. Even remove the passive aegis from guards f3 in order for thieves to be able to do their initial burst. > > > > That being said, I do sincerelly think that the spellbreaker is a fun concept of a class. Although the class is overtuned at its current implementations. > > This is the worst idea. This game doesnt need more passive blocking. It needs people to stop being rabid, and 123457890 spammers. > > Bring the skill back, get the bads to get better, or stay in bronze/silver. I'm not in Bronze/Silver. Im bouncing between legendary and high-plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiritodatrth.1548 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Guardians?? Lol why you even discuss with them? Low risk high reward class, spam 4 buttons in a row... now that they have to put the brain to work starts to get harder XD... Good job ANET full counter is the BEST strategic ability we have in the game now by far, we need much more of it! Punishes ppl that attacks without even thinking... That's REAL pvp ability XD XD And Im not a war, Im a scourge, that pretty much a class that is spamming abilities... I just love to bait war and not giving them resistance XD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmaogg.7325 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Loop.8106 said: > My suggestions to fixing it is to either make it blockable, or not getting 100% damage reduction. Make it so unblockable attacks actually damages the Spellbreaker during the channel. Then change the name so it's no longer call a counter. funny OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torben.1532 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Imo the problem with how the skill works is that you can just run into pulsing fields and fuck everyone who has such, for example symbol guard, necro etc, works against Mesmer too etc. Technically that is not an issue but unblockable, tons of dmg and all the stuff it does makes it way too cheesy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @choovanski.5462 said: > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > Full counter is basically HoT launch version of ToF with the daze trait. > > > > Remove the daze, increase CD by 2 seconds and nerf the damage by a bit, problem solved. > > the daze has to stay. it has high synergy with the spellbreaker line, it’s needed. > > cutting the damage scaling down (to 1.5 or something), & halving the range to 150 would be my go to. smaller range makes the skill super easy to strafe to avoid. i don’t think a cooldown increase is needed if you cut the radius down, because it becomes so much harder to land Aren't you the fella that was Hyper Vocal about Turret Engies being fine & not needing to be nerfed? I've seen you defend other builds like that as well. My rule of thumb is if choov is being very vocal to keep something from being nerfed it needs to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > Full counter is basically HoT launch version of ToF with the daze trait. > > > > > > Remove the daze, increase CD by 2 seconds and nerf the damage by a bit, problem solved. > > > > the daze has to stay. it has high synergy with the spellbreaker line, it’s needed. > > > > cutting the damage scaling down (to 1.5 or something), & halving the range to 150 would be my go to. smaller range makes the skill super easy to strafe to avoid. i don’t think a cooldown increase is needed if you cut the radius down, because it becomes so much harder to land > > Aren't you the fella that was Hyper Vocal about Turret Engies being fine & not needing to be nerfed? I've seen you defend other builds like that as well. > > My rule of thumb is if choov is being very vocal to keep something from being nerfed it needs to be nerfed. hey dude, i’m not advocating it doesn’t get nerfed- i’m just saying the daze needs to stay. cutting the range & damage would be two good nerfs, both of which i suggest in the post you quote (like you’ve quoted me suggesting nerfs to a spec, & then said i dont want it nerfed? what the heck dude?). i would ven go so far to make full counter a frontal cone. that would mean you could literally avoid the counter by walking through the spellbreaker’s character model & being behind them. seems like a pretty good nerf to me as far as turret engineer goes, i was flip flopping between condi engineer & cele bombs at the time. turret engineer was literally the easiest 1v1 of my life. i could either insta kill the engineer with a slick shoes > condi bomb, or just spam 1 on bomb kit & kill all the turrets just with autos. i had so much cc, sustain & boonhate on that cele build i could decap anything. definitely the most fun i’ve ever had in pvp. me & all my pals were able to dodge the rocket overcharge & were farming turrent engineers in our premades, it was good times. i just thought, & honestly still do think that anyone losing against turret engi was playing like a lobotomite if i were to counter your character attack, i would ask should we listen to you- a person who quotes people suggesting nerfs then says they don’t want the class to be nerfed. because i don’t think that makes you look very intelligent at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brujeria.7536 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 It is too strong and actually involves no play. With all the visual clutter and AOE fields you cant really controll "not hitting" the warrior. It should only damage 1 target and should only proc if your selected target hits you with a direct ability, no aoe fields already on the ground. That way it needs skill to land and the power level is justified, in the current state its broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @choovanski.5462 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @choovanski.5462 said: > > > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said: > > > > Full counter is basically HoT launch version of ToF with the daze trait. > > > > > > > > Remove the daze, increase CD by 2 seconds and nerf the damage by a bit, problem solved. > > > > > > the daze has to stay. it has high synergy with the spellbreaker line, it’s needed. > > > > > > cutting the damage scaling down (to 1.5 or something), & halving the range to 150 would be my go to. smaller range makes the skill super easy to strafe to avoid. i don’t think a cooldown increase is needed if you cut the radius down, because it becomes so much harder to land > > > > Aren't you the fella that was Hyper Vocal about Turret Engies being fine & not needing to be nerfed? I've seen you defend other builds like that as well. > > > > My rule of thumb is if choov is being very vocal to keep something from being nerfed it needs to be nerfed. > > hey dude, i’m not advocating it doesn’t get nerfed- i’m just saying the daze needs to stay. cutting the range & damage would be two good nerfs, both of which i suggest in the post you quote (like you’ve quoted me suggesting nerfs to a spec, & then said i dont want it nerfed? what the heck dude?). i would ven go so far to make full counter a frontal cone. that would mean you could literally avoid the counter by walking through the spellbreaker’s character model & being behind them. seems like a pretty good nerf to me > > as far as turret engineer goes, i was flip flopping between condi engineer & cele bombs at the time. turret engineer was literally the easiest 1v1 of my life. i could either insta kill the engineer with a slick shoes > condi bomb, or just spam 1 on bomb kit & kill all the turrets just with autos. i had so much cc, sustain & boonhate on that cele build i could decap anything. definitely the most fun i’ve ever had in pvp. me & all my pals were able to dodge the rocket overcharge & were farming turrent engineers in our premades, it was good times. i just thought, & honestly still do think that anyone losing against turret engi was playing like a lobotomite > > if i were to counter your character attack, i would ask should we listen to you- a person who quotes people suggesting nerfs then says they don’t want the class to be nerfed. because i don’t think that makes you look very intelligent at all Sure bud. We'll just move along as I suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > Sure bud. > > We'll just move along as I suggested. ;) nice ‘save’ there but on the real, we both want full counter nerfed so hopefully something happens. i just hope it’s reasonable & doesn’t kill spellbreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R E F L H E X.8413 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Rodzynald.5897 said: > > @"R E F L H E X.8413" said: > > I think the guardian pull is one of the most ridiculous skills added to the game once you get hit and have the chain + reveal theres no counterplay/getting away. a stealth reliant character is an easy enough kill when in close range and has revealed on and getting pulled into random cleave+traps = for sure death for that stealth character. On top of this you cannot dodge the actual pull they will pull you mid dodge frame and it has like 5000 range you cant even go from collisseums mid to the exit ramps without being pulled. It pretty much interrupts dodge. > > > > After it pulls me i also get revealed in the middle of mid which is almost always instant death on mes or thief then once there you stay revealed after the pull it seems. Reveal should not stay after they pull you. Pulled into random cleave and traps then target called while staying revealed for someone who relies on stealth that is more than overkill. > > > > I'd rather be one shot by a deadeye than pulled into random cleave with revealed. > > Pull has a limited range. Teleport on demand (thief or mes) out of range, behind obstacle. If you let yourself get caught, well... it happens. If you found yourself in a situation where you didn't have a port to escape or an obstacle to hide behind... well it happens, nothing wrong about it. I don't play DH tho, but it has already been nerfed a bunch of times, leave it alone. once the pull is done the revealed needs to be ended. That is the most minor nerf to the skill i can think of. Staying revealed during the chain is bad enough. As mes I'm currently camping stealth for survivability over blink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @choovanski.5462 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > Sure bud. > > > > We'll just move along as I suggested. > > ;) nice ‘save’ there > > but on the real, we both want full counter nerfed so hopefully something happens. i just hope it’s reasonable & doesn’t kill spellbreaker It's called ignoring your posts because you always want the easy way out. Ergo turret engi and other face roll builds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 remove the aoe from full counter and maintain the daze... only the player that goes for it gets punished... IF aoe stays need to be on melee range wich is less than 300?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambino.2109 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 All these nerfs suggestions to a class that literally has no pve capability... you shave it's pvp side and what do we have? an absolutely trash tier elite spec. For those suggesting nerfs.. better at least give back to it to make it viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Anything with AOE daze, the AOE daze must be removed. This does not only apply to SB, but they are the biggest offender now for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Gambino.2109 said: > All these nerfs suggestions to a class that literally has no pve capability... you shave it's pvp side and what do we have? an absolutely trash tier elite spec. > > For those suggesting nerfs.. better at least give back to it to make it viable This is what bothers me. Warrior was essentially reduced to core after the berserker nerfs. In a perfect world all elites are viable or at least one elite is viable for each class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Gambino.2109 said: > All these nerfs suggestions to a class that literally has no pve capability... you shave it's pvp side and what do we have? an absolutely trash tier elite spec. > > For those suggesting nerfs.. better at least give back to it to make it viable Tweaking the numbers doesn't render the class useless. Not making the FC proc off of ground aoes offers counterplay that's just not there right now. The daze needs to stay and so does the cooldown. So either reducing the damage, making it single target or making it blockable. None of these will render the class useless as it can still facetank most 1v2'd and pressure people 1v1. I'd also look into the revenge counter trait and nerf the copies condis to 2-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxsdgxX.8109 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Dralor.3701 said: > > @Gambino.2109 said: > > All these nerfs suggestions to a class that literally has no pve capability... you shave it's pvp side and what do we have? an absolutely trash tier elite spec. > > > > For those suggesting nerfs.. better at least give back to it to make it viable > > This is what bothers me. Warrior was essentially reduced to core after the berserker nerfs. In a perfect world all elites are viable or at least one elite is viable for each class. *Laughs in power Revenant* Such a terrible **excuse** for some of the worst balance ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentfir.7430 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 As a guard main and a semi-multi class player I think Spellbreaker is fine, especially when it trades off it's level 3 bursts for level 1 and Full Counter, and the playstyle is far more reaction based for survivability compared to old Warrior/Berserker playstyle. And I don't mind if they might give guards or other classes bit of a hard time. Also what's funny to me is that Full Counter is just basically a better version of Guardian's Protector Strike(Mace 3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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