Mechanics that break the rules.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

It's mostly apparent with Veterans, though, there are basic mobs that exploit loopholes in mechanics. I'm OK with Champions and Legendary Creatures having unique mechanic breaking abilities, it's when it's so spread out that it becomes overload.

 

A few examples today, the Smokescale/smogscale blinding field. Not only does it affect what's in the field but it also creates an non-attackable mob, short of an AOE there's nothing that can damage it in these fields and a Veteran's blink attack is capable of downing a full health character in one go which it normally does when the field dies down or it first engages the player. Then there's the pocket raptors, I wouldn't mind with the exception of their unlimited range. I have been beyond 1200y and they are still capable of doing full damage without need to be in close combat with me. Then there's the Veteran ice troll, it packs a freeze attack with no tell and instantly freezes for a long duration with no access to stun break skills. It's capable of completely destroying close combat toons with little or no way to retaliate given it also has a knockback explosion that works once started whether it's been cc'd, knocked back, or dead. This was merely a sampling. Fanged ebola's and Jacarandas are definitely frustrating with their constant barrage high damage attacks mixed with either condition spam or constant knockdowns.

 

I find these mechanics frustrating and punishing to play, if you're just going to hamsting skills with most basic mobs then why have them in the first place? It makes playing a few professions far more difficult than it should be. Hopefully this link to EC video will better explain the problem.

 

 

As a proposed solution, can we get access to a single mercenary that we can use as a support for certain classes when need support. Basically a npc for a timed duration that can be rez'd and reclassified as healer, tank, or damage on the fly and used across the account for that timed duration? I would think a gold for an hour of support would be a reasonable exchange.

[infrequentia.3465]

this a learn to play scenario.

 

those smokescales?

you can walk you of there field and then just kill them

the veteran does not insta kill you not even when you are full glass (its around 8k on full berserker gear sure)

 

pocket raptors?

they die when you sneeze at them.

 

that ice troll?

has a gigantic red circle and a hammer to glows when its about to do hulk smash freeze

[Pifil.5193]

I think that it's generally a case of getting out of the circles and staying mobile.

 

I had a couple of issues with the smokescales at the start of HoT but quickly learned that you just get out of the smoke and they're no different than any other mob. The vets pack a punch (or series of punches) but a dodge, even in the middle of that attack, will save you most of the time.

 

Pocket raptors tend to engage in groups, they tend to all freeze for a second and then all of them leap at the same time, a well timed dodge dodges all their attacks. Even if you're downed it's normally not a problem to kill one for the rally. After some initial frustration over them I enjoyed obliterating them.

 

You can interrupt the ice troll or just move away as it casts, blind also works, which is better really, as it wastes its time casting something useless.

 

Interrupts do wonders on Jacaranda too, especially when they're healing. I haven't had much of an issue with the Ibogas but that may be because I try to stay mobile and either kite mobs from range or circle strafe them in melee.

 

Anyway, I have no problems with the idea of bringing NPCs along but the game has to auto-hide miniatures when the player population rises so that might not be feasible.

[Faaris.8013]

Mobs like pocket raptors I treat like traps. I only kill them when there's a wood node next to them that's worth farming. Otherwise, there really is no need to engage them, they don't even drop loot. It's just a matter of awareness, like with other traps in games.

[mtpelion.4562]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> Interrupts do wonders on Jacaranda too, especially when they're healing. I haven't had much of an issue with the Ibogas but that may be because I try to stay mobile and either kite mobs from range or circle strafe them in melee.

 

The big problem with the Jacarandas is that they have an aggro range that is over 9000. You engage one of them and every other one on the map starts making its way to you. Then you start getting knocked down from a mile away (well outside your ability to target/interrupt them) by each of them, one after another. By the time they finish using their knockdowns, the first ones are back off of recharge and can do it all over again.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

The only one I have a little bit of an issue with are the frogs that use the belly-flop attack because it ignores evasion. It's the only attack I know of in the entire game that does this.

[Lexi.1398]

> "AliamRationem.5172" said:

> The only one I have a little bit of an issue with are the frogs that use the belly-flop attack because it ignores evasion. It's the only attack I know of in the entire game that does this.

 

not the only one- pretty much all interrupts wil interrupt an evade, and i believe that's an interrupt? i could be remembering the wrong attack though.

 

------

 

I don't see an issue with any of the mentioned enemies personally, i don't see where they break any rule? Unless your rule is "everything is faceroll-able" which gw2 has consistently not encouraged with all of the content that isn't core open world.

All of the mentioned enemies are counterable and survivable if you use your dodge key and don't stand in the pretty red circles. Pocket raptors, additionally, are as flimpsy as a wet paper towel and any aoe attack (including melee centred spin attacks) will cut them down easily. Smokescales, dodge during blink attacks + run away to drag them out of smokefield (even melee doesn't have to do much to drag them far enough for them to no longer be in that field).

Jacarandas even get "knocked around by attacks" under their name plate as a massive clue to how to deal with them, cc skills work wonders on them. Not sure what to say to ibogas, i've never had an issue with them. Condi cleanse helps but they are entirely face-rollable enemies.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Interrupts do wonders on Jacaranda too, especially when they're healing. I haven't had much of an issue with the Ibogas but that may be because I try to stay mobile and either kite mobs from range or circle strafe them in melee.

>

> The big problem with the Jacarandas is that they have an aggro range that is over 9000. You engage one of them and every other one on the map starts making its way to you. Then you start getting knocked down from a mile away (well outside your ability to target/interrupt them) by each of them, one after another. By the time they finish using their knockdowns, the first ones are back off of recharge and can do it all over again.

 

Oh god yeah, that kind of knockdown chain is insane!

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Lexi.1398" said:

> > "AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > The only one I have a little bit of an issue with are the frogs that use the belly-flop attack because it ignores evasion. It's the only attack I know of in the entire game that does this.

>

> not the only one- pretty much all interrupts wil interrupt an evade, and i believe that's an interrupt? i could be remembering the wrong attack though.

>

> ------

>

> I don't see an issue with any of the mentioned enemies personally, i don't see where they break any rule? Unless your rule is "everything is faceroll-able" which gw2 has consistently not encouraged with all of the content that isn't core open world.

> All of the mentioned enemies are counterable and survivable if you use your dodge key and don't stand in the pretty red circles. Pocket raptors, additionally, are as flimpsy as a wet paper towel and any aoe attack (including melee centred spin attacks) will cut them down easily. Smokescales, dodge during blink attacks + run away to drag them out of smokefield (even melee doesn't have to do much to drag them far enough for them to no longer be in that field).

> Jacarandas even get "knocked around by attacks" under their name plate as a massive clue to how to deal with them, cc skills work wonders on them. Not sure what to say to ibogas, i've never had an issue with them. Condi cleanse helps but they are entirely face-rollable enemies.

 

Interrupts can be evaded like any other attack. This particular attack (the frog belly flop) ignores evasion for some reason. It's a bit of an anomaly in a game where everyone has a dodge ability and is expected to use it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > Interrupts do wonders on Jacaranda too, especially when they're healing. I haven't had much of an issue with the Ibogas but that may be because I try to stay mobile and either kite mobs from range or circle strafe them in melee.

> >

> > The big problem with the Jacarandas is that they have an aggro range that is over 9000. You engage one of them and every other one on the map starts making its way to you. Then you start getting knocked down from a mile away (well outside your ability to target/interrupt them) by each of them, one after another. By the time they finish using their knockdowns, the first ones are back off of recharge and can do it all over again.

>

> Oh god yeah, that kind of knockdown chain is insane!

 

You guys wanna see some jacarandas? Check this out!

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> The only one I have a little bit of an issue with are the frogs that use the belly-flop attack because it ignores evasion. It's the only attack I know of in the entire game that does this.

 

Did you mean block? The belly flop can definitely be evaded.

 

As for unevadable it is definitely not the only one either. Skritt lobbers' thrown bottles are partially like that as well. You need two dodges to fully evade. After the first evade the bottle will change trejectory like it is a guided missile. There is also another mob with a projectile that is similar. I forgot which it is but I remember seeing their projectiles make hard turns mid-flight. There were right angle turns on the projectile trails.

[Cerioth.7062]

To people who say punishing games don't sell.... I have only one thing to show you.

 


 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> this a learn to play scenario.

>

> those smokescales?

> you can walk you of there field and then just kill them

> the veteran does not insta kill you not even when you are full glass (its around 8k on full berserker gear sure)

>

> pocket raptors?

> they die when you sneeze at them.

>

> that ice troll?

> has a gigantic red circle and a hammer to glows when its about to do hulk smash freeze

 

Actually the Smokescales will have perma evades when inside the smokefield, even if you're not inside it. Unless it was changed recently.

Yeah pocket raptors die easily, but for some classes with less aoe output (thief and mesmer for example) they can be annoying at least.

Ice trolls do have tells for their freeze. Idk what hammer you're talking about since trolls usually don't use weapons in GW2.

[Purgatori.3645]

I obliterate pocket rsptors with "bonfire" on torch and fire trap (Ranger did HOT and all season 3) ... there's got to be equal skills in other classes.

[Healix.5819]

Pocket raptors actually shoot invisible lasers. Leaping around is just a distraction.

 

> @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> the veteran does not insta kill you not even when you are full glass (its around 8k on full berserker gear sure)

 

It's more like 11k total on light armor. Regular smokescales hit for 7x ~1300 damage, up to ~2000 crits (sample: 9.8k to 10.5k). Veteran smokescales hit for 7x ~1450 damage, up to ~2200 crits (sample: 10.9k to 11.7k). From a quick sample of 5 assaults, at least 1 hit crit, usually 2, and that's all it really takes when you only have 11k health. That said, it immediately follows up with a 3200 damage bite, up to a 5000 crit, so if you're just going to stand there, it's guaranteed to take you down within 3 seconds.

[Khisanth.2948]

You missed the worst offender ... any scaled up Rolling Devil and pretty much any other mob with some sort of attack while moving skill. If it gets stuck on any debris on the ground near you it is basically an instant down. Even worse is the fact that they use a style of attacks that the devs themselves already deemed inappropriate when they nerfed things like Fiery Greatsword. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

To a lesser extent there is also the mordrem cavalier's charge. It has at least 1200 range of travel. It launches. If it was only that then it would not be an issue but its CD is no more than 5 seconds. It seems to get triggered by range from its target so once it is used once it can end up chaining from itself non-stop.

 

Some of these things are also fine as a base but they don't scale at all. A smokescale field and damage is balanced by its own squishiness but once scaled up it stop being squishy and any semblance of balance is thrown out the window. Add in a stupid ally that just stands in the field and it becomes more annoying.

[mtpelion.4562]

My least favorite things to fight are those Mordrem Chargers. Their knockback does not knock you back, but instead knocks you in whatever direction is necessary to make you land on their "death trail" at which point you are then knocked down for more than enough time to ensure you never get up.

[Tails.9372]

Veteran Awakened Abomination, like no joke this is the most cancerous enemy to fight against as P/P thief (no legendary creature comes even close to the level of BS of this abomination). It's pretty much unbeatable, Unkillable at Range + attacking it = insta downstate. Yeah, that's just some ingenious enemy design right here.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> My least favorite things to fight are those Mordrem Chargers. Their knockback does not knock you back, but instead knocks you in whatever direction is necessary to make you land on their "death trail" at which point you are then knocked down for more than enough time to ensure you never get up.

 

Actually, try and make a new character and fight some aatxe in Godslost Swamp at level 15. You might realize this is not new.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> Veteran Awakened Abomination, like no joke this is the most cancerous enemy to fight against as P/P thief (no legendary creature comes even close to the level of BS of this abomination). It's pretty much unbeatable, Unkillable at Range + attacking it = insta downstate. Yeah, that's just some ingenious enemy design right here.

 

Abominations have an attack that reflects for a few seconds. Stop killing yourself.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> You missed the worst offender ... any scaled up Rolling Devil and pretty much any other mob with some sort of attack while moving skill. If it gets stuck on any debris on the ground near you it is basically an instant down. Even worse is the fact that they use a style of attacks that the devs themselves already deemed inappropriate when they nerfed things like Fiery Greatsword. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

>

> To a lesser extent there is also the mordrem cavalier's charge. It has at least 1200 range of travel. It launches. If it was only that then it would not be an issue but its CD is no more than 5 seconds. It seems to get triggered by range from its target so once it is used once it can end up chaining from itself non-stop.

>

> Some of these things are also fine as a base but they don't scale at all. A smokescale field and damage is balanced by its own squishiness but once scaled up it stop being squishy and any semblance of balance is thrown out the window. Add in a stupid ally that just stands in the field and it becomes more annoying.

 

There is so much available counter play there, though. Easy solutions to the mordrem rider charge? Stay at melee as much as possible and interrupt the charge as it has an obvious and lengthy tell. You only have to damage them part way before the rider dies and the raptor itself can no longer charge.

 

Rolling devils. Again, use interrupts and keep your distance if you have nothing available off cooldown, dodge as needed if they get too close. Their breakbar isn't an automatic break on ANY CC the way the normal units are, but it's still quite fragile. Once they're stunned just throw everything you've got at them so they die before they can recover.

 

Everything has counterplay. Pocket raptors? Area burst. They have no health. Smokescales? Stun them out of their teleport assault (or dodge through it), drag them out of red circles, and lay the burst on them. They also have no health. Bristlebacks? Use reflects when they're firing off that stream of projectiles. Use CC to break their bar and stun them and burn them down. Shadowleapers? Stay on top of them (literally, at melee range) and be sure to evade out of poison circles and when they leap backward as they will fire a volley of arrows (using reflect at this point is a good idea, too!). These also have no health.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Interrupts do wonders on Jacaranda too, especially when they're healing. I haven't had much of an issue with the Ibogas but that may be because I try to stay mobile and either kite mobs from range or circle strafe them in melee.

>

> The big problem with the Jacarandas is that they have an aggro range that is over 9000. You engage one of them and every other one on the map starts making its way to you. Then you start getting knocked down from a mile away (well outside your ability to target/interrupt them) by each of them, one after another. By the time they finish using their knockdowns, the first ones are back off of recharge and can do it all over again.

>

>

 

That's an over exaggeration, they don't have anywhere near that large of an aggro range, and I can guarantee that all other Jacaranda's in the vicinity won't join in the attack...if you want, just hop up on top of Nimbose Butte in Desert Highlands, you can easily engage those Jacaranda one at a time or two(rarely 3)...granted I play ranger and have a pet to assist, but I also haven't had that much problem on a few other characters either.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > this a learn to play scenario.

> >

> > those smokescales?

> > you can walk you of there field and then just kill them

> > the veteran does not insta kill you not even when you are full glass (its around 8k on full berserker gear sure)

> >

> > pocket raptors?

> > they die when you sneeze at them.

> >

> > that ice troll?

> > has a gigantic red circle and a hammer to glows when its about to do hulk smash freeze

>

> Actually the Smokescales will have perma evades when inside the smokefield, even if you're not inside it. Unless it was changed recently.

> Yeah pocket raptors die easily, but for some classes with less aoe output (thief and mesmer for example) they can be annoying at least.

> Ice trolls do have tells for their freeze. Idk what hammer you're talking about since trolls usually don't use weapons in GW2.

 

I think they mean walk out so you pull the smokescale out too. If you move away from their smoke field they'll follow you like most enemies will, and then they'll be vulnerable again. Another option (if you've got a suitable build) is to focus on applying damaging conditions when you can hit them and AoEs on their smoke field when you can't.

 

But like other people said most difficult enemies (especially in expansion maps) come down to knowing the mechanics rather than expecting to do the same thing in all situations.

[Malafaia.8903]

Veteran Awakened Officers.

WTF with those dudes? They're like Scourges with Daredevil privileges.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

>

> There is so much available counter play there, though. Easy solutions to the mordrem rider charge? Stay at melee as much as possible and interrupt the charge as it has an obvious and lengthy tell. You only have to damage them part way before the rider dies and the raptor itself can no longer charge.

>

> Rolling devils. Again, use interrupts and keep your distance if you have nothing available off cooldown, dodge as needed if they get too close. Their breakbar isn't an automatic break on ANY CC the way the normal units are, but it's still quite fragile. Once they're stunned just throw everything you've got at them so they die before they can recover.

>

> Everything has counterplay. Pocket raptors? Area burst. They have no health. Smokescales? Stun them out of their teleport assault (or dodge through it), drag them out of red circles, and lay the burst on them. They also have no health. Bristlebacks? Use reflects when they're firing off that stream of projectiles. Use CC to break their bar and stun them and burn them down. Shadowleapers? Stay on top of them (literally, at melee range) and be sure to evade out of poison circles and when they leap backward as they will fire a volley of arrows (using reflect at this point is a good idea, too!). These also have no health.

 

As a firm believer in counter-play, I approve of this message. However, I will point out that all professions are not created equal with regard to specific counters. Reflection, for instance, is readily available to some professions, some others have to use otherwise undesirable trait lines or weapons to access it, and at least one has no access at all. While playing specific professions, players might have to get creative to find a different way to counter a mob's most damaging/annoying mechanic.