What About Exotic Gear For Fractals That Allows Agony Resistance?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Miellyn.6847" lol k.

 

@"Feanor.2358" Yup but it sure as hell helps when someone experienced brings them in for their first time and explains everything essential to them. No different than it is with raids, other than T4 fractals are a lot easier to remember and adapt to.

[Sublimatio.6981]

i dont want exotic armor to have AR. that would only make me at risk of playing with undergeared players and i'd rather avoid that. forcing people to build up their gear and AR in natural pace like we all did is the best imo.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

People complain that there's no enough barrier to entry for T4 fractals, because people get there, fully geared up, without the knowledge, experience, or skill to manage T4 plus instabilities. People complain that there's a barrier to entry because they have friends who are (in their estimation) ready to T4 now. There's no perfect balance between the two needs, although I'd wager that the number of people as skilled as the OP (at GW2 and at teaching friends) is tiny compared to the number who are unskilled or self-taught, so I can see why ANet would err on the side of keeping things a little tricky.

 

That said, current gold costs to outfit a first toon in full ascended:

* Roughly 90 gold to get r400 in one armor discipline and two weapon disciplines.

* Another 150g to reach r500 for those same crafts.

* 40g per ascended item, so maybe ~450g for a full armor set plus several weapons.

* 170-250g for infusions (depending on the sizes)

* Theoretically no cost for accessories, if the player has access to LS3 (time: yes, money: no)

 

That's under 1000g to buy a player access to fractal 100, without putting in the time to level up on their own.

 

I'm not sure why the OP thinks that's an unreasonable cost for people who want to bypass the usual process. Is it steep? Sure. But you're buying substantial convenience for that price, just as we pay extra to avoid dealing with buying salvage kits or gathering tools or finding a bank access. Could it be less? Sure. Should it be less? I don't see that it needs to be.

[Eramonster.2718]

This felt like a fractal loop :lol:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23605/is-agony-necessary/p1

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Well, you can get all aacended trinkets almost for free from ls3 maps. If you infuze and atune all of them you get 10 infusion slots. The highest i fusion you can buy from INFUZ golem with +1 infusions is +11.

Your tear potion is 15 agony so you only need 135. This way you can get to 125 agony resistance without having any ascended armor/weapons

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

If she only has a core game its tough. When i started wuth crafting my first ascended weapon i relised that you can sell refined mats for profit so thats what paid my whole ascended gear. There is multiple ways how to make money in gw2. And little by little you can get her enough gold to craft what she needs

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> @"infrequentia.3465" Except that new players do not have the fractal relics they need to upgrade asc backpiece "if they even have that". Probably not enough fractal relics to infuse and attune the rings, and definitely not enough relics to support always buying 5x stack potions during their runs. Upon that, she won't be saving fractal relics at all while doing that. And ironically enough, doing so would seriously stall the absolute hell out of her ability to save fractal relics for future adaptation to the game mode. It's all just one bit pit that needs more middle ground.

 

Oh well, i just read your name and relise we had already loooooooong discusion about fractals. I hope this "elitis" suggestion will help you.

 

If she already is doing T2 and T3 she will have some relics/infusions. She can get potions for free by doing recomended. Both daily and recomended take me less then an hour. And even if she doesnt get many relics she will aventualy get ascended drop and with that she can drop the tear potion and start geting profit

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Well, you can get all aacended trinkets almost for free from ls3 maps. If you infuze and atune all of them you get 10 infusion slots.

 

I don't think it's likely in the OP's scenario to expect fully attuned/infused trinkets:

* Infusing and attuning rings requires fractal masteries (attunement is directly gated, infusion is indirectly gated because of the dependency on shards of the mist, which aren't available to a player new to fractals). However, it's not unreasonable to presume that someone serious about fractals invests some time in its masteries.

* Infusing a backpack requires the Gift of Ascension (with few exceptions) and that costs relics, which aren't available in the OP's example.

 

So it's more realistic, in the OP's example, to count on 5 infusion slots from trinkets (two from rings, two from accessories, and one from back).

 

> Your tear potion is 15 agony so you only need 135. This way you can get to 125 agony resistance without having any ascended armor/weapons

Similarly, a newbie to fractals won't have access to this either.

 

> The highest i fusion you can buy from INFUZ golem with +1 infusions is +11.

Artificers at r100 can make AR+12 and higher and it costs only under 4g to reach that. Still, 5 infusions slots is too few to provide enough AR for T4, without spending far more than training up crafts to make one's first armor and first weapon sets.

 

****

So I agree with the OP that, realistically, it costs a lot more than 100-200g to get a friend T4-ready. I don't agree that it's important to the game for that to change: if the game includes AR to prevent people from jumping to T4, without practicing, then it doesn't make sense to reduce the costs to remove the barrier.

 

(As someone else said, that makes this more a question of "is agony resistance necessary to the health of the game?", which turns out to be a moot point.)

 

I suppose it's ironic that the OP can take their exotic-equipped friend(s) into Raids — the hardest (instanced-PvE) content in the game (as stated by the devs), but not into the theoretically easier instances (Fractals).

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Do you hv gold? 11 infusion slots just trinkets and asc weapon

 

If you are rich. Buy infusion straight from tp .. u can always extract it out and sell back after to get decent gold back. That's if you want it fast so you and ur gf can play together straight away

I hv a vid on how to attune rings to get 3 slots each let me know if u need :)

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> @"infrequentia.3465"

>

> 1. First 5 potions free = used up in the first 30 minutes that I am teaching someone how to run their build.

> 2. 500 relics for asc backpiece + 250 ectos GG

> 3. Infusing doesn't cost fractal relics? Let's take a look at that: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infused_equipment - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Condensed_Mists_Essence - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glob_of_Coagulated_Mists_Essence - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shard_of_Crystallized_Mists_Essence - Infusing both rings will be 600 relics for just the shards, which is something they cannot have access to without running T4s. If you're talking about buying the others instead of waiting for drops, you're looking at a total of 560 relics for double ring infusion + 500 for backpiece = 1060 relics. This all needs to be done before this easy example you've given me about achieving T4 AR levels can even be possible. That's a lot of low tier grinding and no saving for future adaptation.

> 4. You don't ALWAYS get free agony potions. It's all RNG. Don't act like it isn't.

> 5. In the beginning, you do not save more relics than you use, unless you are full time job grinding fractal 40 style.

>

> There was a lot of misinformation in your post.

>

 

Boie...

1. Each potion lasts 60m. Don't use them before entering fractals. And you get the first 5 ones you buy free. That's 5 hours of free potions.

Also Tear of Alba helps when low on AR.

 

2. Buy the ones from Living world. You just need to infuse (sure it's 250 ectos once, but surely if either of you can't bother getting 250 ectos, maybe none of you are really interested in playing the game).

 

3. Vials drop, and can be traded in between them. Sure they don't drop **all the time** but they do.

You're also not supposed to start playing T4 right of the bat. That's the point, you're supposed to climb the tiers. If you're still wasting 1 hour of Fractal Potions just to teach her how to play, then good thing she ain't doing T4 yet.

 

4. Yes you do. It's called Daily Recommended Fractals. They're also great for starting players, since they don't include T4 in their recomendations, only 1 Fractal T1-T3. And each one gives one of each Large Offensive potions.

 

5. In the beginning, you shouldn't be playing T4.

 

A lot of lack of knowledge in your post.

 

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

> > I understand your position, been through it with a lot of guild mates. What i'd do is exactly your second choice, i'd run T2/T3 with friends (sometimes even T4, if it's only old fractals with agony coming only from boss you can do T4's without enough AR).

> > What to do: If you've been doing Fractals, you probably have a surplus of Infusions, so share them with your girlfriend, if you don't, **shame on you**. This will allow a head-start. I'd often give away 2-3 +9's to my friends when they were starting (that would be a total of 4-6 because my brother would do the same).

> >

> > If she's not willing to get crafting to 500 (it's a matter of gold, not really a big deal, you can even lend her the gold), i don't think she should even be considering T4/CM. There's a considerable increase in difficulty from T3, especially CM. Idk if she'd enjoy that.

> > Either way, if you're so interested in getting her into fractals... Log her account yourself, and level the crafting.

> > Otherwise it'll take a lot of roundabout ways to get Ascended gear (since nonsensically enough, even buying ascended armor and weapons from vendors requires crafting).

> >

> > That aside there's a lot of Ascended gear to be had without crafting, but you'll be hard-pressed to get a full set:

> > * Tequatl and Triple Trouble will **rarely** drop Ascended gear, including exclusive models.

> > * PvP Rewards will drop Ascended gear, as will WvW. Again, it's rare.

> > * Fractals also drop Ascended gear (especially at T4), but you'll know that...

> > * Quick weapon acquisition can be done with Specialization Collections, and a couple other collections.

> > * You can get Ascended armour chests from the following collections:

> > - Ambrite Weapons

> > - Leystone Armour

> > - Luminescent Armour

> > - Funerary Armour

> > - And of course the Raid Legendary Armour collection (you can raid in exotics).

>

> Yeah, I do what I can for her. This last pvp season I logged into her account and grinded ranked just to get her one fractal character all ascended trinkets but it is extremely annoying to have to do and I am not looking forward to more distraction from my main account, to be able to grind up a full set of asc weapons/armor during S11 for her. The AR infusions aren't the problem, it's obtaining ascended gear. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that I used my gf as an example. She is a special case in which I can dedicate this type of time and attention. I cannot do this for every new player who joins our guild, who seeks to be involved in T4 fractals/raids. All I can tell them to do, is to get started if they are serious enough. <- And that is where the gap needs to be closed a bit. These people are excited to join a guild to participate. Then they realize they won't be participating and they are going to be playing alone anyway. That isn't exactly cohesive for good guild dynamic.

>

 

You can get trinkets more easily from Living World. Unless you didn't log in to unlock the episodes. New players can be helped, but they should also help themselves.

No one should expect to start the game and be at the same level as people that have been regularly playing for 5 years.

I do T1 and T2 all the time... Even for new players that aren't in my guild. And i also do T4 (well not lately since i've barely even played for the last few weeks - stuff to do).

 

Just realized you said she only has the Core game. That's a different thing all together. It will take her longer and struggle more to get things then. You can't expect to play for free (which, even if you bought core, it's pretty much the equivalence you get atm), you're expected to have to spend more time than someone that paid for the game for some of the same things.

[Obtena.7952]

I see little reason to lower the requirements for people that simply can't be bothered to play enough to earn then. If they can't play enough to earn the unlocks needed for content, then they clearly care little for doing that content in the first place.

 

If OP really wants to play more with GF, find something you can both do.

[Mourningcry.9428]

There's actually nothing stopping players from going into Fractals, T4 or whatever, without proper AR... Just make their own group and state that they'll need rubs after every Agony tick.

 

After a while, they'll tire of dirt naps and either get the necessary AR or stop doing fractals.

 

Either way, this is a personal issue for them to resolve as they see fit, not an issue with the existing game design.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Btw, you need expansion to unlock core masteries? I though it is part ot core game now. Without fractal mastery i dont think you van get to 150 AR unless using big infusions and full ascended

[zealex.9410]

Fractals are the only place in gw2 designed to work with vertical progression in mind. If you dont like that dont> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> @"Shirlias.8104" You get 10 infusion slots with trinkets alone and that's not to mention the price involved in socketing all of the trinkets. To reach 150 AR this way, you would need +15 agony resistance infusions. 15 x 10 = 150. Bro, have you ever looked on the TP to see the price of +15 agony infusions? <- Not gonna happen. Also, players running exotics would be fine in fractals. Raids however, probably wouldn't fly. But as long as they could start running T4s in those exotics, they could start realistic saving for ascended gear at a reasonable pace. T4 is where that really starts as we all know and that is exactly where the "gate & gap" is. The players who really really need that first ascended setup, can't get it. Then the players who don't need the ascended gear, are getting free asc box drops. That gap needs to be closed a bit.

>

> @"Miellyn.6847" Extremely unrealistic effort for even a guild to pool enough gold to pay for 500 armor smith, 500 weapon smith, 500 artificer and 500 huntsman, for her to be able to craft ascended. THEN we also pay for the materials to build each individual piece, runes, sigils and then infusions on top of that. That is like sending someone a legendary, for free. <- Not gonna happen.

>

 

She needs 2 of these at most.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Btw, you need expansion to unlock core masteries? I though it is part ot core game now. Without fractal mastery i dont think you van get to 150 AR unless using big infusions and full ascended

 

Yup, you have to own an expansion to even unlock Central Tyria fractal masteries. This is what I'm talking about -> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mastery So yes, she is looking at being required to buy ridiculously over priced high +AR infusions with no +5 stats, to be able to hang in T4s.

 

She PURCHASED the core game during the first year of gameplay, long before fractals added the agony system. Is this even fair though? The least they could do is enable Central Tyria masteries for Core Guild Wars 2 owners. That's kind of a cop-out to a large margin of their original player base.

[infrequentia.3465]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> Btw, you need expansion to unlock core masteries? I though it is part ot core game now. Without fractal mastery i dont think you van get to 150 AR unless using big infusions and full ascended

 

16x9 = 144

 

so the same ''regular'' infusion + potion puts it over the treshold

 

btw only 140/145 is needed for level 100 ( 12%-6% per tick)

 

so yes even withouth the master you can get to 150 or even enough to get to the level of doing level 100 withouth dieing

 

to the OP , it seems you still don't know how agony works exactly

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > Btw, you need expansion to unlock core masteries? I though it is part ot core game now. Without fractal mastery i dont think you van get to 150 AR unless using big infusions and full ascended

>

> 16x9 = 144

>

> so the same ''regular'' infusion + potion puts it over the treshold

>

> btw only 140/145 is needed for level 100 ( 12%-6% per tick)

>

> so yes even withouth the master you can get to 150 or even enough to get to the level of doing level 100 withouth dieing

>

> to the OP , it seems you still don't know how agony works exactly

 

You don't get agony without central tyria masteries

[infrequentia.3465]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > Btw, you need expansion to unlock core masteries? I though it is part ot core game now. Without fractal mastery i dont think you van get to 150 AR unless using big infusions and full ascended

> >

> > 16x9 = 144

> >

> > so the same ''regular'' infusion + potion puts it over the treshold

> >

> > btw only 140/145 is needed for level 100 ( 12%-6% per tick)

> >

> > so yes even withouth the master you can get to 150 or even enough to get to the level of doing level 100 withouth dieing

> >

> > to the OP , it seems you still don't know how agony works exactly

>

> You don't get agony without central tyria masteries

 

yes you do.

 

agony resist isn't tied to masteries.

the masteries increase rewards, give more dailies, and the potions gain bonus effect.

 

so yes apperently you don't know how agony works in depth

[crepuscular.9047]

i grind my way to full ascended gears by playing 2-3hrs a day, slowly building up my AR over the years, worked my way up to T3 (despite been playing since pre-launch), I'm not complaining

 

Fractal is a system designed to earn you rewards for your progression, T4 is a privilege, not a right

The AR requirement is designed in the way to teach you about fractal mechanics and slowly ramp up the difficulties, too many times i see new ppl jump in without knowing what to do.

 

What's fun in a MMO if you can keep on taking short-cuts without trade-off?

 

if you really want to taking short-cuts while keep the game alive? buy gems with your real money and convert to in-game gold to buy all the mats off TP

1. you get your armor and AR in the shortest time

2. anet can pay their employees to keep the game running

 

remember, anet cannot keep the game running and develop new contents if they cannot keep a healthy profit margin no matter how popular the game is.

 

it has happened in the past, City of Heroes, despite how popular the game was, and was making a slight profit, NCSoft, parent of anet and crytic, decides to shut it down

don't let history repeat itself...

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> > You don't get agony without central tyria masteries

> yes you do.

Correct, all ascended gear offers one infusion slot and anyone can buy infusions or use an r100 artificer to make arbitrary sizes of AR.

 

>

> agony resist isn't tied to masteries.

Not directly. The number of slots is severely limited by lack of masteries.

* Attunement is hard-gated by [Follows Advice](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Follows_Advice)

* Purchase of mist essences is also hard-gated by the same mastery, so you can't infuse any rings either, unless you get enough drops.

* Infusion of backpacks (with few exceptions) & rings is slowed down by missing masteries. The required Gift of Ascension costs 500 ordinary relics & buying mist essences cost 750 essences (plus several gold). Acquisition is lower without the other masteries. It's not a huge difference for veterans, but for newbies it means waiting a lot longer.

[infrequentia.3465]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > You don't get agony without central tyria masteries

> > yes you do.

> Correct, all ascended gear offers one infusion slot and anyone can buy infusions or use an r100 artificer to make arbitrary sizes of AR.

>

> >

> > agony resist isn't tied to masteries.

> Not directly. The number of slots is severely limited by lack of masteries.

> * Attunement is hard-gated by [Follows Advice](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Follows_Advice)

> * Purchase of mist essences is also hard-gated by the same mastery, so you can't infuse any rings either, unless you get enough drops.

> * Infusion of backpacks (with few exceptions) & rings is slowed down by missing masteries. The required Gift of Ascension costs 500 ordinary relics & buying mist essences cost 750 essences (plus several gold). Acquisition is lower without the other masteries. It's not a huge difference for veterans, but for newbies it means waiting a lot longer.

 

its 2 slots less

 

2 out of 18 is not severely limmiting its 11,11% less

 

16 slots still gives 144 AR with +9 infusions ( his concern because of the +9 statted infusions)

wich is enough to do every single fractal in the game right up to level and including level 100

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> its 2 slots less

Realistically, the OP's friend can field ~~13~~ 14 slots: 6 armor, 2 weapon, 2 rings, ~~1~~ 2 back, 2 accessories. That requires an average of ~~11.5~~ 10.7 AR per slot to reach 150. Or, with only AR+9, it's only ~~117~~ 126 AR. We can quibble about whether that's "severe" or not, if you like.

 

The reason the friend is limited is that they won't initially have access to either attunements or infusions. The attunement gate is, I hope obvious. The friend cannot infuse rings either, because, until they do enough fractals, they won't have **any** mist essences and cannot buy them (because it's gated by the same mastery). Similarly, it's unrealistic to assume they can infuse the backpack day 1 because that costs 500 relics and, in the OP's scenario, they won't have any yet.

 

Mind you, I don't support the OP's suggestion. I only agree that it's expensive and/or time-consuming.

 

_updated: I forgot about Bough of Melandru, which allows someone without any mist essences or fractal relics to get a second infusion slot for their back. Recipe costs 1g; mats costs 110g. Expensive? Sure, but the idea is to spend gold in lieu of having masteries._

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > You don't get agony without central tyria masteries

> > > yes you do.

> > Correct, all ascended gear offers one infusion slot and anyone can buy infusions or use an r100 artificer to make arbitrary sizes of AR.

> >

> > >

> > > agony resist isn't tied to masteries.

> > Not directly. The number of slots is severely limited by lack of masteries.

> > * Attunement is hard-gated by [Follows Advice](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Follows_Advice)

> > * Purchase of mist essences is also hard-gated by the same mastery, so you can't infuse any rings either, unless you get enough drops.

> > * Infusion of backpacks (with few exceptions) & rings is slowed down by missing masteries. The required Gift of Ascension costs 500 ordinary relics & buying mist essences cost 750 essences (plus several gold). Acquisition is lower without the other masteries. It's not a huge difference for veterans, but for newbies it means waiting a lot longer.

>

> its 2 slots less

>

> 2 out of 18 is not severely limmiting its 11,11% less

>

> 16 slots still gives 144 AR with +9 infusions ( his concern because of the +9 statted infusions)

> wich is enough to do every single fractal in the game right up to level and including level 100

 

It's 3 slots less. No 2 infusions on rings and no back piece infusion.

 

And no, you don't get agony resistance without Central Tyria Masteries.

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Potion

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Central_Tyria_mastery_tracks#Fractal_Attunement

 

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" That friend also has no asc armor or weapons. She only has 1 slot backpiece, 2x asc earrings, 2x asc rings with only 2 infusions on each. She has 7x AR slots, and we won't be able to get her anymore, any time soon. Might I also point out that she is ready to play in T4 fractals, she just can't.

[Eramonster.2718]

Helped a friend which just got the game with expansions *few months ago* to start on fractals. Took around 2 weeks, to gear his character enough AR for T4 entries (76 ish). Things got really slow mid T3 cause of the need for ascended armors.

 

If your gf only have the core game, your options will be; limited. Suggest to climb normally to get to know the mechanics, some achievement points, farm mist essences or other materials along the way for future use etc. You can provide her with a +9 AR daily by completing your T4s & recs. Any infused rings dropped should be used regardless of stat for the extra infusion slot.

 

[thrag.9740]

Do escort, trio, mo every week a few times to cap magnetite shards. Buy cheap ascended armor. No crafting, ez solution.