Why is spamming 3 a viable build?

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> P/P thief definitely not an all purpose, viable build, but it hard counters the hell out of low-active defense classes. I think you should be rewarded for running it if the enemy chooses to stack Scourge or Druid, or Reaper. Spicy pick. I like it

 

Interesting statement. I know this is a pvp thread, this is loosely related.

I just started pp thief, boy is it fun. But it is hard, dialing in the build and playstyle in wvw is seemingly impossible. For instance, in wvw pp thief is almost impossible to play solo roaming or in zergs, it is the keep and smc fights that keep pp thief from shining. it seems to do well in small group fights, but a warriors' lucky bulls charge with hundred blades and arc divider takes its head off completely. And forget about beating firebrands in wvw, because pp thief barely hits 100 on them. I know you guys are chatting pvp stats and strats, but wvw is the perfect place to really learn this build. Mostly due to the different techniques needed to survive there. For me, it is taking more than a week. But chef Boyardee's Granny once said "good game play takes time," or something like that, and I was chomping at the bit on a lot of toons for a long time. But it is really fun. Glassy, but can drive a low to spawn in as little as 2 blasts. Gosh I can't wait to become adept.

[skeptic.2409]

I 100% AGREE THE THIEF IS BROKEN

the only way its not that good is in a good team comp or

a 5v5 structured team

but when you play solo que

THE SHIT SUCKS IT'S SO ANNOYING I GET BURSTED DOWN SO FAST

 

THIEF AND MESMERS NEED A NERF THEY ARE TOO STRONG END OF STORY

[Majirah.5089]

> @"skeptic.2409" said:

> I 100% AGREE THE THIEF IS BROKEN

> the only way its not that good is in a good team comp or

> a 5v5 structured team

> but when you play solo que

> THE kitten SUCKS IT'S SO ANNOYING I GET BURSTED DOWN SO FAST

>

> THIEF AND MESMERS NEED A NERF THEY ARE TOO STRONG END OF STORY

 

I think using all caps really brings validity to your argument.

[skeptic.2409]

> @"Majirah.5089" said:

> > @"skeptic.2409" said:

> > I 100% AGREE THE THIEF IS BROKEN

> > the only way its not that good is in a good team comp or

> > a 5v5 structured team

> > but when you play solo que

> > THE kitten SUCKS IT'S SO ANNOYING I GET BURSTED DOWN SO FAST

> >

> > THIEF AND MESMERS NEED A NERF THEY ARE TOO STRONG END OF STORY

>

> I think using all caps really brings validity to your argument.

 

REALLY YOU THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +_+ LOL

hopefully mesmer and thief get nerfed

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > Enemy thief sees Shadowfall's playing Druid.

> >

> > Enemy thief swaps to P/P.

> >

> > Enemy thief camps Shadowfall.

> >

> > Shadowfall rages and comes to forums.

> >

> > The end

> >

> >

> > But seriously I saw an increase in Condi D/D daredevils and p/p deadeyes in platinum. Luckily I had my broken Chaos Mirage along ?

>

> Imperadordf makes assumptions.

 

Just joking :c

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> In reality, you absolutely can, but only if all classes are designed around that same paradigm, rather than giving that capability only to a single, arbitrary class amid others which operate entirely within the confines of comparatively astronomical cooldowns.

 

I am 100% for changing every profession to use the Initiative System.

I may actually play something other than Thief if that happens.

 

 

> @"skeptic.2409" said:

> I 100% AGREE THE THIEF IS BROKEN

 

Indeed, my Thief gets broken nearly every match I play.

Sometimes, its back gets broken. Other times, its neck gets broken.

But the real shame is when every bone in its body breaks due to the sheer amount of salt that it gets buried under :-(

 

[Wolfric.9380]

i main ele and use thief as alt for fun and i use P/P. While i enjoy fighting them with my ele (the have nearly no chance ...) i also enjoy using the deadeye +1 P/P. But if you want to use this well it´s like most other classes and you need to L2P. Thief is not faceroll it just hits very hard with mark and unload under quickness after a boonrip and stun XD ... It´s +1 and strikes targets down in their back very efficient.

[shippage.1983]

It's easy to counter, it's viable but there are still better thief builds. It also provides next to no utiltiy. The 2 is a completely useless skill so really you just get a burst that does decent damage.

[FyzE.3472]

"Roses are red

~~Violets are blue~~ I stick to thee

I am a thief

~~Two, two, two, two~~ Three three three three"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411425#Comment_411425

[Allarius.5670]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > It’s bad game design, but it works. I have always felt that Thief was designed poorly, being able to spam its single most powerful skill, whether that is Vault, Heartseeker, or Unload over-and-over-and-over again. But the Devs are happy with it and so are a good many players.

>

> I've gotta start by sayingthat I think the initiative system is a cool idea. But in practie I think it has failed. It has led to a system where it is impossible to balanec thief skills. You simply cannot balanec weapons skills against the abilitt to cast them back to back, multiple times.

 

Even looking at it from this angle I think it is possible to balance: you build modifiers into skills to promote combo-ing skills together rather than spamming a single ability. Each ability would remain spammable on its own to a lower effect. Full or improved effectiveness is locked behind sequencing different skills. If done right, you could even build multiples of these chains into a single weapon set for an even more dynamic playstyle. It almost feels like this is what they aimed for and along the way missed the mark.

[apharma.3741]

> @"FyzE.3472" said:

> "Roses are red

> ~~Violets are blue~~ I stick to thee

> I am a thief

> ~~Two, two, two, two~~ Three three three three"

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411425#Comment_411425

 

:open_mouth:

[jcbroe.4329]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> P/P thief definitely not an all purpose, viable build, but it hard counters the hell out of low-active defense classes. I think you should be rewarded for running it if the enemy chooses to stack Scourge or Druid, or Reaper. Spicy pick. I like it

 

Druid is considered low active defenses? :open_mouth:

[FyzE.3472]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > "Roses are red

> > ~~Violets are blue~~ I stick to thee

> > I am a thief

> > ~~Two, two, two, two~~ Three three three three"

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411425#Comment_411425

>

> :open_mouth:

 

All credit goes to you :)

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> P/P Thief

>

> OmegaLUL

 

I mean because they are squishy and die to 2 slaps form anything. IF they really are spamming throw a reflect up 1 self reflected unload screws them. Im honestly more concerned with 2 shot evasive s/d thief than p/p thief.

[Wolfric.9380]

and two shot kite/stealth P/P ? I play my build as +1 and don´t care if i do 15 or 20k. It´s more important to survive and move. A 10+k burst in someones back with an interrupt and boonrip decides a +1 annyways very fast. I don´t like one trick pony´s so i currently use maurauders + exuberance

 

 

 

[brannigan.9831]

To certain builds they are certainly a pain in the ass because it only takes a few seconds for them to kill anything and if you don't have some sort of active defense or way to get to them immediately you have to run away or if you can't you'll be killed. And lets be honest there are mostly bad players left at just about every rating level. Luckily I play a build with tons of active defense and mobility so they are mostly free kills if I dont do something stupid.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3,3,3,3,3, 5,5,5,5,5, 4,4,4,4,4, 1,1,1,1,1, and 2,2,2,2,2 are not accepted strategies for winning as thief.

As thief, you must die and never decap far.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > It’s bad game design, but it works. I have always felt that Thief was designed poorly, being able to spam its single most powerful skill, whether that is Vault, Heartseeker, or Unload over-and-over-and-over again. But the Devs are happy with it and so are a good many players.

> >

> > I've gotta start by sayingthat I think the initiative system is a cool idea. But in practie I think it has failed. It has led to a system where it is impossible to balanec thief skills. You simply cannot balanec weapons skills against the abilitt to cast them back to back, multiple times.

>

> In reality, you absolutely can, but only if all classes are designed around that same paradigm, rather than giving that capability only to a single, arbitrary class amid others which operate entirely within the confines of comparatively astronomical cooldowns.

 

Absolutley cannot. You will inevitably end up in 1 of 2 situations

 

1 - Individual skills will be extremely lackluster, specifically because Anet doesn't want them to be overbearing when used in succession. A consequence of this is that auto attacks get buffed to hell and back because the class needed to be viable in raids, but its other weapon skills were all made useless at the time

2 - A skill or two is so good, that its the only one you use on the weapon. Making it very strong if used back to back, but also making you not want to use any of the other weapon skills for that weapon, in order to save your initiative for that one skill that overperforms compared ot the rest of the kit. See shortbow. SB5 is so incredibly useful compared to the rest of hte kit, that the weapon is taken and used just for SB5. Now that doesn't mean that there is something wrong with SB5, it just shows one of the fundamental limitations of the initiative system as it currently exists.

 

It needs a very serious redesign. On the same level as what happened with mesmer phantasms.

[Toll Booth Willie.6723]

Full yolo in unranked netted me an 11-4 match first time out the gate. These are the times i really question my addiction to reaper.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

> @"Brandon.8294" said:

> P/P thief is easiest enough to deal with, a stern look and they usually drop dead. That doesnt make it any less frustrating for a p/p thief to just spam 3 to maximize their build.

 

& That's some pro positioning you did there.. :D

 

[Brandon.8294]

> @"Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046" said:

> > @"Brandon.8294" said:

> > P/P thief is easiest enough to deal with, a stern look and they usually drop dead. That doesnt make it any less frustrating for a p/p thief to just spam 3 to maximize their build.

>

> & That's some pro positioning you did there.. :D

>

 

gotta cover my bases

[Axelteas.7192]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> p/p deadeye and deadeye in general is strong against bad players which is about 95% of ranked so it isn't bad build.

>

> P/P deadeye is even more cheese because the burst is insane besides from being instant + stun most players can't react thus they die then you whole team get snowballed because they don't know how to focus or kite and then you lose the match.

>

> If you have at least 2 decent players then they won't die and actually focus the deadeye making him/her way less effective.

 

Basically 95% of casual-newbies players are unable to dodge deadeye-scourge-dragonhunter attacks. they die like rats.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Lol people are still dying to P/P Thief, oh too great. Maybe use LoS or any defensive skills, it’s not like there isn’t a plethora of those in game on every class.

[Icy.2186]

Condi aids thief or mesmer block aids or guardian block fire aids, i would argue that the game simply has too many offensive defensive abilities.

Condi thief would barely be a thing if every single one of its attacks wasnt an evade ( which is absolutely fucking retarded ) or mesmers doing 20kish damage before theyre done cycling the iframes with their main "offensive" ability is a sword cleave with evade attached to it if anything at least p/p is damageable while it spams 3 unliked the classes mentioned previously and they all do. A lot of classes currently have functioning ( relatively ) builds that do nothing of their wep skills but spam 3.

At least the latest pvp patch made the game more "active" rather than passive, Kappa.

[Chilli.2976]

I wonder how much sweat each PP Thief has on their "3" key.