A-Net please get rid of the DPS meters.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Pimpology.6234" said:

> > @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > all the dps meter showed was that 1 person wasn't pulling their weight.

> >

> > the elitism was always there.

> >

> > dps meters are a good way to see where you are doing bad so you can improve.

> > bad apples will always be bad apples with or withouth the meters

> >

> > and dps will always matter.

> >

> > some1 doing 1-5k dps is bad unless its a full supporting player

> Knowing your own dps is good, but that's what the golems are for. To practice and get your rotations down. DPS meters are currently being used for others to spy on you and the outcome is usually a negative experience for many and ruins the GW2 communties positive vibe. dps meters should not show what other people are doing. If they are, these types of meters should be banned.

>

> One way to solve this is a kind of raid achievement like the pvp thing. Much like the bronze /silver / gold / platinum ranking you can choose to display or not. (plus its ingame).

> Have it character bound and @ the golems if you reach certain DPS thresholds you achieve a certain rank. Then others will know your potential DPS if you choose to display it. If you don't display or haven't done it, people will know you're not serious about raids or are just starting out. Plus this display feature can only be used in raids and won't interfere with fractals. (Or something along these lines)

 

Those titles will make it even worse than it is right now. People will always expect the 30-35K titles and you won't have the chance to show them how are you doing with your class before getting kicked from the squad.

[Pimpology.6234]

> @"Soul.1378" said:

> Queensdale champ farm is becoming way too toxic! We must do something about it quick!!

> -nerf champs-

> Fractals and Raids are becoming too toxic because of DPS meters!

> -it's totally allowed-

 

been said before but, that was more because new players were seeing this toxic map chat environment. and anet didin't want them to know it existed that early in the game.

But toxic environment for vets eh, who cares. :D

[Pimpology.6234]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Pimpology.6234" said:

> > > @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > > all the dps meter showed was that 1 person wasn't pulling their weight.

> > >

> > > the elitism was always there.

> > >

> > > dps meters are a good way to see where you are doing bad so you can improve.

> > > bad apples will always be bad apples with or withouth the meters

> > >

> > > and dps will always matter.

> > >

> > > some1 doing 1-5k dps is bad unless its a full supporting player

> > Knowing your own dps is good, but that's what the golems are for. To practice and get your rotations down. DPS meters are currently being used for others to spy on you and the outcome is usually a negative experience for many and ruins the GW2 communties positive vibe. dps meters should not show what other people are doing. If they are, these types of meters should be banned.

> >

> > One way to solve this is a kind of raid achievement like the pvp thing. Much like the bronze /silver / gold / platinum ranking you can choose to display or not. (plus its ingame).

> > Have it character bound and @ the golems if you reach certain DPS thresholds you achieve a certain rank. Then others will know your potential DPS if you choose to display it. If you don't display or haven't done it, people will know you're not serious about raids or are just starting out. Plus this display feature can only be used in raids and won't interfere with fractals. (Or something along these lines)

>

> Those titles will make it even worse than it is right now. People will always expect the 30-35K titles and you won't have the chance to show them how are you doing with your class before getting kicked from the squad.

 

maybe but at least it be kept to raids and not fractals :D

Anet should make an ingame meter, best solution for all.

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"Pimpology.6234" said:

> > @"infrequentia.3465" said:

> > all the dps meter showed was that 1 person wasn't pulling their weight.

> >

> > the elitism was always there.

> >

> > dps meters are a good way to see where you are doing bad so you can improve.

> > bad apples will always be bad apples with or withouth the meters

> >

> > and dps will always matter.

> >

> > some1 doing 1-5k dps is bad unless its a full supporting player

> Knowing your own dps is good, but that's what the golems are for. To practice and get your rotations down. DPS meters are currently being used for others to spy on you and the outcome is usually a negative experience for many and ruins the GW2 communties positive vibe. dps meters should not show what other people are doing. If they are, these types of meters should be banned.

>

> One way to solve this is a kind of raid achievement like the pvp thing. Much like the bronze /silver / gold / platinum ranking you can choose to display or not. (plus its ingame).

> Have it character bound and @ the golems if you reach certain DPS thresholds you achieve a certain rank. Then others will know your potential DPS if you choose to display it. If you don't display or haven't done it, people will know you're not serious about raids or are just starting out. (to encourage people to do this bonus raid tokens/rewards could be given for reaching different tiers/ranks) Plus this display feature can only be used in raids and won't interfere with fractals. (Or something along these lines) or just build your own in game dps meter solely for raids if that's simpler and ban anyone using these 3rd party dps meter spyware. It's really hurting the community.

 

Golems are useless for knowing real world dps. They just show potential. To get the real story of what you are doing when it comes to actual fighting, DPS meters are necessary. It's also important to see other players DPS for comparison if you want to improve.

 

I use a DPS meter for this reason. For example, in WvW if I'm on my Herald, I compare my dps to other Heralds. If I'm consistently on the low end compared to the others, and things being fairly equal (none of us die frequently, we are providing similar buffs, etc.) then I know I need to improve, and I have numbers to show that. But, the numbers are not static, as in I don't shoot for 5k or 10k or whatever. It's a comparison. If after a couple fights, and I find myself hovering on the low end of the other Heralds, then what could I have done better? If no DPS meter, I would have happily trudged along thinking I was doing fantastic!

 

The above is just one example of how DPS meters are helpful without causing toxicity. If I didn't see my own, and others DPS, then I would have no quantifiable evidence of my need for improvement or the results of my improvement. At minimum I want to at least be in the middle of the pack, though I strive to be on the top end.

[Dual.8953]

I think this whole elitism dps meter thing boils down to some people just want to do their own thing, be themselves without being judged. It’s kind of an individualist mindset, which can run counter the collectivist mindset promoted by party play.

As long as there’s a significant challenge in party play this conflict will exist. If you want a game where you can be absolutely anything you want, Guild Wars isn’t that game. That probably goes for any video game.

You’re probably better off getting into D&D and finding a DM who’s willing to facilitate you.

[inaho.2046]

I think Anet should sell a meter Gizmo you can click to pop up and see YOUR DPS only with a bar graph with numbers while you play - they should make it 2k gems, DPS meters aren't going away. TBH I'm on a Mac and three isn't one for me to run. I don't care about other peoples DPS. JaxNX - a ToS complaint meter because it dosn't do memory hooks, could run if I could run in full screen windowed mode on a mac - if that mode was avaliable :( . I want to know how I'm doing in an actual raid or T4 fractal on the fly with keeping my rotation up while jumping and dodging. I'd like that feedback - and Anet could turn it into an income stream to cover development costs. I don't need other peoples DPS - but it's a needed feature because much of the high ned content has DPS checks built into it. If you cannot kill the boss before the timer expires, you loose. Raids is a perfect example.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Learn2play issue.

Properly gear your character and learn your rotation, then you will not be kicked for failing your role.

At least your being kicked for something you can fix, not an arbitrary reason, like ap or class.

[Corvinus.8634]

I wouldn't mind an ingame DPS meter or one based on logs/xml whatever like other games has, I even made one for AOC long ago and always use one in WoW to see where I am and how I perform, but no way am I installing a direct x dll hack to get one. If it becomes a requirement to do so, I'll flat out refuse for being asked something so dumb, and whoever is maintaining this game should do the same and provide logs or an ingame one if they want it to be a thing.

[BlueJin.4127]

I personally wish this game adds its own DPS meter. It’s just too useful for improving my builds. For me, the benefit of having a DPS meter far outweighs the negatives that come from some annoying players.

 

Maybe have a DPS meter that just shows my damage and not others. I just need something that tells me which of the builds I’m trying and enjoying equally are more useful.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Last Crysis.1934" said:

> Please make all dps meters a bankable offense.

Like how much bank are we talking?

[Diak Atoli.2085]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Last Crysis.1934" said:

> > Please make all dps meters a bankable offense.

> Like how much bank are we talking?

 

Enough to break the Bank? Maybe a Five Diamond Award or two?

[LadyHawk.5319]

Well this seems to be an older post brought back, as the issue is still at hand and growing. The "L2P or GTFO" argument is, one could say, indicative of the core problem. DPS meters, i.e., Arc, is an awesome tool for an individual. I love the load-out feature. With 6 builds on my guardian it is a time saver! I have this tool as my personal guide. I never use it in groups, etc unless I want to see how I am doing. I would prefer that the stats were not automatically shared with everyone else. My suggestion is to keep DPS meters but do not permit the information to be viewed by others. Period. This is a tool to improve your performance. So many people just look at the end number. Did they notice that the lowest dpser spent a lot of their time rezzing people, doing some other non-dps mechanic? Probably not. Most just look at the number and kick. Last I looked this was GW2, not WoW. Our community is much better than that. Come on guys, get it together! If you someone is not experienced yet you stated experienced only, then remove them for that reason ... not because of the dps meter.

[Dante.1763]

Honestly i just think anet should put their own DPS tool in game at this point, i want to be able to see my own DPS, but im not going to go install a third party tool to do so.

[archmagus.7249]

The thing is with DPS meters, they're not very accurate. Even high prestige guilds admit that.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> The thing is with DPS meters, they're not very accurate. Even high prestige guilds admit that.

 

Well we don't need DPs meter to be accurate to decimal point ..We know a person who claim to be dps does 2k DPS is not a DPS guy. You can't cheat ?

 

[mauried.5608]

One of the common phrases in threads like this is DPS meters are needed to identify players who are not pulling their own weight.

Can someone explain in objective terminology so that the explanation can be understood by anyone reading the thread exactly what this phrase means.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> One of the common phrases in threads like this is DPS meters are needed to identify players who are not pulling their own weight.

> Can someone explain in objective terminology so that the explanation can be understood by anyone reading the thread exactly what this phrase means.

 

As a rule of thumb: any dps class doing less than 10k dps, and any support class with less than ~70% boon uptime. Give or take.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

the dps meters are a tool used to exclude people from content. They also serve as a reminder that classes are no balanced. Thus, its debatable whether or not its a reflection of player skill.

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> the dps meters are a tool used to exclude people from content. They also serve as a reminder that classes are no balanced. Thus, its debatable whether or not its a reflection of player skill.

 

Arcdps needs to step up and meet those expectations :tongue:. Asking too much from a tool imo.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> One of the common phrases in threads like this is DPS meters are needed to identify players who are not pulling their own weight.

> Can someone explain in objective terminology so that the explanation can be understood by anyone reading the thread exactly what this phrase means.

 

Talking about boss fights with enrage timers, it is imperative that you do enough DPS to kill the boss before it resets. Let's make an example. The numbers are mostly fictional so just see it as an example to explain the point. So let's say that you are in a group of 10 as I believe the raid groups are in GW2. And in order to beat the boss on time the group needs to do 90K DPS or they will not be able to kill it on time. Well then you have a group composition of 7 DPS and 3 Support. Using the numbers I saw here that means if 7DPS push out 10K each and the 3 support do 7K each, your group does 91K DPS and therefore the boss will die not long before the enrage timer runs out and you fail the fight.

 

Now, if you consistently get the boss down to a few percent health and the enrage timer runs out, you want to fix that problem. So you need to see who's not hitting their numbers. People can call it elitist but the simple fact is that with enrage timers, you need to step up. If you do not want to fix your rotations and gear then the simple fact is that raids are not for you. It really is that simple.

 

When we just had the basic dungeons in vanilla there was no such things as enrage timers. I'm not even sure if fractals have enrage timers, but once you do, you have no choice but to look at what's going wrong if you cannot beat a boss on time. DPS meters or parsers give you the information. It can be a bit confrontational but the preposition is that people want to beat the fight and do their part to make it so. The problem is that if in the example above one person does 5k DPS then it fight will fail unless others can make up for the difference. The tighter the enrage timer is, the harder that is to do.

 

Now I do not know if Fractals have enrage timers for boss fights, but there comes the other side of GW2...it's a farm game. This means that you need to repeat things a lot to get where you want. I mean, look at crafting. You need hundreds of ingots or logs or leather pieces to make one small part of an armor piece. That is completely ridiculous of course, but the higher numbers means more gathering, more farming. That means that people want to do those repetitions quickly as it feels like a chore but they've got targets to hit (x amount of y per evening). So that's why people want to hang with other people that are of their own speed.

 

So between the high repetition farming and the enrage timers in raids, the game more or less pushes people to go for efficiency and to achieve that, you need DPS meters. Because it's hard to change something when you don't have any feedback.

 

It's also part of the reason I stay away from group content like raids and fractals in particular because I don't like the combat system enough to care about its specifics and I am sure I will therefore underperform. And that choice is mine and not other people's fault. So I'm not going to join their groups and drag them down.

 

I'm sorry but when it comes to boss fights with enrage timers, DPS meters are a must if your group is having a hard time killing bosses on time and unavoidable in group content in a farm game. That's why I'm glad open world group content (events basically) are done the way they are in GW2. I personally play solo and join meta events mostly and stay away from content that requires more engagement from me as a player. But if I did want to raid, you betcha I'd get a DPS meter to git gud. It's what it takes to do such content. The elitist attitudes...well some of it is not elitist actually but a reality of what it takes. The rest is just people not being able to get over themselves.

[Edgy McEdgelord.4790]

^ so much this

 

The real toxicity comes from those people that deem whatever build barely works for them in open world fit to clear harder content and then become enraged (as some bosses do) when they are told that it wont work in organized group content that has a skill cap.

[GenghisKhan.7842]

Since DPS meter is already existing in game at practice Golem, I don't see why it should not be extended somewhere else (only visible to player)

[wiazabi.2549]

Be transparant about what you can do if you want to join fractal raid dungeon if people are toxic after that it is them that are the problem so just ignore and move on, if however they offer advice listen and learn you most likely will start to enjoy the game more.

 

If you want to be carried through grp content without putting some effort into your class build and rotation then perhaps try and ask people to do just that but dont get suprised if people ignore you.

 

 

[Gandrogh.1530]

Dps meter is a good tool. People who complain about may have to choose more wisely their group. And maybe get good ?

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > The thing is with DPS meters, they're not very accurate. Even high prestige guilds admit that.

>

> Well we don't need DPs meter to be accurate to decimal point ..We know a person who claim to be dps does 2k DPS is not a DPS guy. You can't cheat ?

>

 

I wasn't saying that they're scientifically accurate, but that they only give ballpark estimates. They can be off by a couple hundred or even a thousand. There's no reason to kick someone because of a DPS meter; or lack thereof.