BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Pimpology.6234" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"altermaven.7385" said: > > > There's a way to check your damage consistency that is built in game. While I don't mind the fact people want to benchmark their stuff. I *do* mind having it as a de-facto criteria for getting into high-tier stuff. Some games consider having the availability of everyone's DPS at their fingertips a bannable offense. Being kicked because you're sub-optimal, because you aren't measuring or sharing your damage output, because you're having a bad DPS day? Having meters as an 'available' option not part of the API is technically considered boundary-crossing, but regardless invites a large wave of unwanted toxicity. > > > > > > And as for this "check" in the game? It's called a combat log. Sure it's not robust, but it's what you got. It may not measure your total output per second, but you can make rudimentary benches out of it. > > > > > > To iterate: I'm not against measuring DPS, or having a means to measure it. I *am*, however, against having my details read by someone other than me. I personally do not use DPS meters, because by rights it is across that line that seperates "legit" from "suspicious". > > > > They aren’t your details, all combat data is public data in gw2, and Toxicity hasn’t risen due to combat meters, since Toxicity was even more prevalent in the form of completely arbitrary reasons like AP or kick or full zerk or kick, and no Ranger and Necro or kick. > > > > And they aren’t boundary crossing since the people that set the boundaries are Anet and they said as long as Combat Meters meet their compliance standards they are ok. > > > As a gw2 vet from launch, the Toxicity levels have most definetly gone waaay up post raids. To say that's not true is just insane. All one has to do to get a glimpse of what goes on in game is to just read all these hundreds of posts about it. As from playing at launch Toxicity was much higher before hand just go look at the old forums and the Reddit about every single thread about people being kicked/excluded for not having x amount of AP, not playing certain classs, not pinging full Zerker, etc all of which was completely irrelevant and arbitrary, while now it’s actually based on relevant and accurate data on if a player gets kicked in rare cases, but hey I know the facts are pesky like that. And no there haven’t been hundreds of threads about combat Meters and Toxicity in gw2 but a simple search shows how much of a gross over exaggeration that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > > Combat data is not private. > > > > > > No, it's not *private*, but within the meanings of the new EU rules, it *is* what's called "personally identifiable" data. It is distributed to other players that *your* character did something. If DPS meters could only read the meter-user's data, many of the various problems attributed to them would not exist. (They would have less value, but not *zero* value.) > > > > > > So the OP is wrong - it isn't about privacy - but citing the GDPR(1) rules *is* or at least *could be* relevant to the DPS meter debate. > > > > > > (1) GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations) isn't about *privacy* as such. It is about how companies (etc.) make use of data that can be linked to a specific person. (That's essentially what "personally identifiable" means.) The rules are far stricter than past data protection rules, and the "blame targets" for that are large Internet companies, notably one whose name begins with G, another whose name begins with F, and a third whose name begins with T. (Obviously, not General Motors, Ford, and Toyota...) > > > > A number on a screen that is tied to an anonymous character is not personal data as it does not identify the person. > > That's just it, though. *Is* the character anonymous? For sure, the character doesn't have *my* name on it, but the name of *my* account is visible in-game and linked to the character. If you join a party with a character called "Cleopatra Aegyptus", you'll see that the associated account is "Steve The Cynic.3217", and *that* is personally identifiable. > > No, you're right, a *player* cannot easily link that to ===> that human, but there *is* a link to that human, so it is "personally identifiable". By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said: > > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > > Combat data is not private. > > > > > > No, it's not *private*, but within the meanings of the new EU rules, it *is* what's called "personally identifiable" data. It is distributed to other players that *your* character did something. If DPS meters could only read the meter-user's data, many of the various problems attributed to them would not exist. (They would have less value, but not *zero* value.) > > > > > > So the OP is wrong - it isn't about privacy - but citing the GDPR(1) rules *is* or at least *could be* relevant to the DPS meter debate. > > > > > > (1) GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations) isn't about *privacy* as such. It is about how companies (etc.) make use of data that can be linked to a specific person. (That's essentially what "personally identifiable" means.) The rules are far stricter than past data protection rules, and the "blame targets" for that are large Internet companies, notably one whose name begins with G, another whose name begins with F, and a third whose name begins with T. (Obviously, not General Motors, Ford, and Toyota...) > > > > A number on a screen that is tied to an anonymous character is not personal data as it does not identify the person. > > That's just it, though. *Is* the character anonymous? For sure, the character doesn't have *my* name on it, but the name of *my* account is visible in-game and linked to the character. If you join a party with a character called "Cleopatra Aegyptus", you'll see that the associated account is "Steve The Cynic.3217", and *that* is personally identifiable. > > No, you're right, a *player* cannot easily link that to ===> that human, but there *is* a link to that human, so it is "personally identifiable". By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carighan.6758 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Dayra.7405" said: > I hate my DPS being measured by others as much as reviving DPS-fixated people. I would like to exclude them from joining my parties as I like to stay away from their parties. > With the hacker-ban wave ANet has shown that it can easily recognize such users of third-party software. > > I propose that DPS-Meter user are flagged as such easy visible in game, and that LFG-tool allows you to set a flag that keeps such people out from joining your party. Conversely, does that mean underperforming DPS players are **also** flagged so they can be easily avoided? I mean, fair's fair and all. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. a simple reading of those laws? you read or you don't read, this is needless inflammatory commentary or your part. the next question is do you understand those laws. which is only incidental to their interpretation and change (Parliament) and the rulings of the courts. if it was simple then lawyers wouldn't be on 6 figures sums and zuckerberg wouldn't be in court at all. Everything's new on this so there is no 'rule of precedent', so its all up for grabs no matter how many times you read it, which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > > > By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. > > a simple reading of those laws? > you read or you don't read, this is needless inflammatory commentary or your part. > the next question is do you understand those laws. which is only incidental to their interpretation and change (Parliament) and the rulings of the courts. > if it was simple then lawyers wouldn't be on 6 figures sums and zuckerberg wouldn't be in court at all. > Everything's new on this so there is no 'rule of precedent', so its all up for grabs no matter how many times you read it, > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > > > > Actually the definitions on the GDRP and the US online Privacy Laws are very clear on what constitutes Personal Data, and combat data in game doesn’t fall under any interpretation of the definitions, again since there is no way for a player to connect a display name to a player’s natural person then it is not personal data. And how is this inflammatory in any means? It’s stating the factual information in terms of the definitionsnprescribed in the laws concerning what Constitutes personal data. Just because some people don’t like the facts doesn’t mean that the comments are inflammatory. And your example is a completely different scenario regarding the overstepping of bounds and misuse of personal data as defined by privacy laws etc. again a completely unrelated scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > if you read the OP it's about flagging players that use damage meters, not about GDPR or any legal things. I don't think there is any reason for the developers to answer a thread like this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Miko.4158" said: > > > > > By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. > > > > a simple reading of those laws? > > you read or you don't read, this is needless inflammatory commentary or your part. > > the next question is do you understand those laws. which is only incidental to their interpretation and change (Parliament) and the rulings of the courts. > > if it was simple then lawyers wouldn't be on 6 figures sums and zuckerberg wouldn't be in court at all. > > Everything's new on this so there is no 'rule of precedent', so its all up for grabs no matter how many times you read it, > > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > > > > > > > > > > Actually the definitions on the GDRP and the US online Privacy Laws are very clear on what constitutes Personal Data, and combat data in game doesn’t fall under any interpretation of the definitions, again since there is no way for a player to connect a display name to a player’s natural person then it is not personal data. > > And how is this inflammatory in any means? It’s stating the factual information in terms of the definitionsnprescribed in the laws concerning what Constitutes personal data. > > Just because some people don’t like the facts doesn’t mean that the comments are inflammatory. > > And your example is a completely different scenario regarding the overstepping of bounds and misuse of personal data as defined by privacy laws etc. again a completely unrelated scenario. Definition of personal data The definition of personal data is data relating to a living individual who can be identified from that data or from that data and other information in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller Sensitive personal data concerns the subject's race, ethnicity, politics, religion, trade union status, health, sex life or criminal record under data protection act 1998. far from explicit on anything, 'identified' for example...." if someone takes the dps nonsense and whispers me abuse, that's identifying me. if this then has a detrimental effect on my life how is this any different from someone taking my phone number and randomly calling me every hour to sell double glazing. do they need to know my name? the definition of Consent is however clear. I'm not saying arenet should get involved, quite the opposite. But the amateur arm chair this is the law nonsense isn't helping the debate. you certainly don't find any lawyers this balshy on interpretation without a stack of case law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Miko.4158" said: > > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > > > > if you read the OP it's about flagging players that use damage meters, not about GDPR or any legal things. > I don't think there is any reason for the developers to answer a thread like this one The OP was the one to bring up GDPR a couple posts under the original trying to cite that as a reason for their request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Miko.4158" said: > > > > > > > By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. > > > > > > a simple reading of those laws? > > > you read or you don't read, this is needless inflammatory commentary or your part. > > > the next question is do you understand those laws. which is only incidental to their interpretation and change (Parliament) and the rulings of the courts. > > > if it was simple then lawyers wouldn't be on 6 figures sums and zuckerberg wouldn't be in court at all. > > > Everything's new on this so there is no 'rule of precedent', so its all up for grabs no matter how many times you read it, > > > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually the definitions on the GDRP and the US online Privacy Laws are very clear on what constitutes Personal Data, and combat data in game doesn’t fall under any interpretation of the definitions, again since there is no way for a player to connect a display name to a player’s natural person then it is not personal data. > > > > And how is this inflammatory in any means? It’s stating the factual information in terms of the definitionsnprescribed in the laws concerning what Constitutes personal data. > > > > Just because some people don’t like the facts doesn’t mean that the comments are inflammatory. > > > > And your example is a completely different scenario regarding the overstepping of bounds and misuse of personal data as defined by privacy laws etc. again a completely unrelated scenario. > > Definition of personal data > The definition of personal data is data relating to a living individual who can be identified > > from that data or > from that data and other information in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller > Sensitive personal data concerns the subject's race, ethnicity, politics, religion, trade union status, health, sex life or criminal record > > under data protection act 1998. far from explicit on anything, > 'identified' for example...." > if someone takes the dps nonsense and whispers me abuse, that's identifying me. > if this then has a detrimental effect on my life how is this any different from someone taking my phone number and randomly calling me every hour to sell double glazing. > do they need to know my name? > the definition of Consent is however clear. > I'm not saying arenet should get involved, quite the opposite. But the amateur arm chair this is the law nonsense isn't helping the debate. you certainly don't find any lawyers this balshy on interpretation without a stack of case law. personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person; Oh no look at that that’s the GDPR definition which is what the OP is concerned about see how it mentions Being able identify a natural person which can’t be done through a Display name on Gw2 by any player oh so interesting. And you as a person can’t be identified by a Display name by a player, as per the definition you cited, just because someone can send a message to you doesn’t mean they identified you as a person and doesn’t mean that it is personal data since it can’t idenetify you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 players are people if you assume they aren't bots. I fail to see the relevance of your statement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > players are people if you assume they aren't bots. I fail to see the relevance of your statement . > A player can’t be personally identified by a display name, since there is no connection that a player can see or obtain that Abcd.1234 is actually John Smith or any other personal information pertaining to that person, which is very relevant to what constitutes personal information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > players are people if you assume they aren't bots. I fail to see the relevance of your statement . > Can I identify that your name is Michael by seeing your DPS on Dhuum? No I ducking can't. Combat data isn't personal data. Smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 This thread is really interesting. I would not even have crossed my mind that people would do this huge leap in logic and attempt to use the GDPR to go against dps meters. It can be amazing on how confused we are on the difference between public data, personal data and private data. Good thing laws like the GDPR exist and give us a chance to actually think about it and clear up a few things in our heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberman Mastermind.6012 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (removed, I don't want to continue in this thread. Let's just say that it's wrong to be convinced that you know how or what others think; and I thought GW2 was already a dumbed down version of GW1.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Ok, here's a little challenge to all the people citing GDPR: From my Display Name, are you able to know ANY of the following? - My real life name? - My gender? - My age? - My skin color? - My nationality? - My address? - My phone number? If you're able to tell any of that (or other information regarding my actual person) from my display name then I'll accept that it's personal identification and falls under GDPR rules. Otherwise I'll have to agree with those saying it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Miko.4158" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Miko.4158" said: > > > > > > > By all legal definitions it isn’t personally identifiable or fall under personal data, since we have no way as players to connect your display name with your natural, a simple reading of those applicable laws and definitions would show that. > > > > > > a simple reading of those laws? > > > you read or you don't read, this is needless inflammatory commentary or your part. > > > the next question is do you understand those laws. which is only incidental to their interpretation and change (Parliament) and the rulings of the courts. > > > if it was simple then lawyers wouldn't be on 6 figures sums and zuckerberg wouldn't be in court at all. > > > Everything's new on this so there is no 'rule of precedent', so its all up for grabs no matter how many times you read it, > > > which is why I dare say you will only see the smallest toe of Arenanet on any of these threads...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually the definitions on the GDRP and the US online Privacy Laws are very clear on what constitutes Personal Data, and combat data in game doesn’t fall under any interpretation of the definitions, again since there is no way for a player to connect a display name to a player’s natural person then it is not personal data. > > > > And how is this inflammatory in any means? It’s stating the factual information in terms of the definitionsnprescribed in the laws concerning what Constitutes personal data. > > > > Just because some people don’t like the facts doesn’t mean that the comments are inflammatory. > > > > And your example is a completely different scenario regarding the overstepping of bounds and misuse of personal data as defined by privacy laws etc. again a completely unrelated scenario. > > Definition of personal data > The definition of personal data is data relating to a living individual who can be identified > > from that data or > from that data and other information in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller > Sensitive personal data concerns the subject's race, ethnicity, politics, religion, trade union status, health, sex life or criminal record > > under data protection act 1998. far from explicit on anything, > 'identified' for example...." > if someone takes the dps nonsense and whispers me abuse, that's identifying me. > if this then has a detrimental effect on my life how is this any different from someone taking my phone number and randomly calling me every hour to sell double glazing. > do they need to know my name? > the definition of Consent is however clear. > I'm not saying arenet should get involved, quite the opposite. But the amateur arm chair this is the law nonsense isn't helping the debate. you certainly don't find any lawyers this balshy on interpretation without a stack of case law. No, that does not identify you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Zohane.7208" said: > Ok, here's a little challenge to all the people citing GDPR: From my Display Name, are you able to know ANY of the following? > - My real life name? > - My gender? > - My age? > - My skin color? > - My nationality? > - My address? > - My phone number? > > If you're able to tell any of that (or other information regarding my actual person) from my display name then I'll accept that it's personal identification and falls under GDPR rules. Otherwise I'll have to agree with those saying it's not. > I hope this thread dies with this post. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Zohane.7208" said: > Ok, here's a little challenge to all the people citing GDPR: From my Display Name, are you able to know ANY of the following? > - My real life name? > - My gender? > - My age? > - My skin color? > - My nationality? > - My address? > - My phone number? > > If you're able to tell any of that (or other information regarding my actual person) from my display name then I'll accept that it's personal identification and falls under GDPR rules. Otherwise I'll have to agree with those saying it's not. Just for the record, you can almost certainly track down my current employer, my email address with them, my real name, and a bunch of other biographic information about me from my account name. Going beyond that may be a little harder, but I suspect not that much. City level location shouldn't be hard to obtain, and between the real name, employer, and city I wouldn't bet on remaining undiscovered in physical person if someone cared that much. So ... while I'm certain that you are right it would be difficult to obtain your details, this is definitely not true of anyone. I also think you, and others, are quite right that the account name, as well as character name, is not even remotely protected information under the GDPR in the context of GW2 DPS meters. You are simply using a weak argument to support your position by denying a relationship between account name and protected information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > @"Zohane.7208" said: > > Ok, here's a little challenge to all the people citing GDPR: From my Display Name, are you able to know ANY of the following? > > - My real life name? > > - My gender? > > - My age? > > - My skin color? > > - My nationality? > > - My address? > > - My phone number? > > > > If you're able to tell any of that (or other information regarding my actual person) from my display name then I'll accept that it's personal identification and falls under GDPR rules. Otherwise I'll have to agree with those saying it's not. > > Just for the record, you can almost certainly track down my current employer, my email address with them, my real name, and a bunch of other biographic information about me from my account name. Going beyond that may be a little harder, but I suspect not that much. City level location shouldn't be hard to obtain, and between the real name, employer, and city I wouldn't bet on remaining undiscovered in physical person if someone cared that much. > > So ... while I'm certain that you are right it would be difficult to obtain your details, this is definitely not true of anyone. > > I also think you, and others, are quite right that the account name, as well as character name, is not even remotely protected information under the GDPR in the context of GW2 DPS meters. You are simply using a weak argument to support your position by denying a relationship between account name and protected information. But those are illegal. There is no legal way to obtain personal information from GW2 Client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarpan.9074 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Seems to me that if there are so many people who hate DPS meters, it shouldn't be all that hard to form groups of folk who don't use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The debate on "personal information" is irrelevant to the thread topic. Combat data is not a personal identifier. Let's say that the account name is a personal identifier that ought to be protected by privacy laws. I'm not saying it is, this is just for the sake of making a point. At that point, the flaw in GW2 would be showing the account name in game at all. Damage produced in a given encounter is not in any way unique, nor is reading your combat data required for a player to learn your account name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > privacy or not, being able to see who has a DPS meter on would already help tons and lowers frustration. > > Would it? It seems to me that all it does is increase toxicity. Since the vast majority of players using a dps meter rarely bother to mention it, and the purpose of this change is explicitly to exclude players who use them, it's hard to imagine any other outcome. i can simply avoid ppl instead of being kicked 20X over or flamed by ppl because "reasons" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayra.7405 Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 I am not a laywyer, so let's have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive and not into the law , but still a bit more precise in terminologie: Wiki: "Personal data are defined as "any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person ("data subject"); an identifiable person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identification number or to one or more factors specific to his physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or social identity;" (art. 2 a). This definition is meant to be very broad. Data are "personal data" when someone is able to link the information to a person, even if the person holding the data cannot make this link. Some examples of "personal data" are: address, credit card number, bank statements, criminal record, etc." "Combat data is not a personal identifier" of course not, and I never claimed that. But "Dayra.7405" is a personal identifier, and it is that, even if **you** cannot resolve it. It's sufficient that **someone** can (I.e. ANet) With that Dayra.7405 is very similar to my credit card or account number: an identifier given to me by an company. That's Personally identifiable information (PII), but "personal data" is not limited to PII, but Personal Data includes: "any information **relating** to an identified or **identifiable** natural person" As Dayra.7405 is potentially identifiable, combat data is personal data (but not PII) as it is related to Dayra.7405 (or my char.name which is related to Dayra.7405 via friend/block-List). I think combat data is even sensitive personal data (as grades at school) as its processing allows to draw conclusions about my capabilities and personality. Now for the "processing of Personal Data": Wiki: "Personal data may be processed only insofar as it is adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purposes for which they are collected and/or further processed. " I agree that my combat data need to be processed to calculate damage on my target, I also agree that this can be comunicated to my target in PvP. **I think it is excessive to publish my personal data such that 3rd parties can do further calculations.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regord.2319 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 > @"Dayra.7405" said: > I can write that, but still they can secretly spying me. They can even take over majority and kick me. QQ, L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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