Siege Revisions

[aspirine.6852]

> @"hunkamania.7561" said:

> https://i.gyazo.com/64b8ee90c532a1b6563f8d50553534c6.png

>

> Says it all right there. Sit in a tower with your guild group and spam 1. Game has turned into a joke. If people in this thread think siege and structures don't need nerfing they're not playing the same game.

 

Welcome to EU, where German servers do exactly this. :/

[Shining One.1635]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion. I think the 5 defenders should be able to hold a single gate/wall against an attacking 50. However, if that 50 splits up and attacks multiple gates/walls simultaneously, the 5 should lose.

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"XxsdgxX.8109" said:

> Add something fun like a massive Gatling Gun/Turrent thing. :+1:

> Idk to be honest, just anything to punish blobing maps 24/7

 

Rambo approves of this suggestion.

 

 

 

[SweetPotato.7456]

1) I want to be able to pay the npc inside the keep to help keep Sieges alive since lots of players only won't help to keep them alive and when you do really need them thye will only start to build one that they wanted to use, which in turn resulted in the tower/keep having no supply.

 

2) I want an achievement line for

a) building sieges

b) keeping the siege alive (maybe a server wide achievement) the server/guild (for future) gets a special title for successfully keepinig sieges alive

i) during an attack to overtake a tower/keep (only applicable if there are defenders)

ii) successfully keeping sieges alive for an entire week in the keep tower, bonus point if said sieges survive waves of attacks

c) dropping X amount of sieges

d) successfully killing X players with sieges

e) healing players with trebuchet

f) Gate taken down by ram

g) wall taken down by catapult,

h) wall taken down by treb.

I) successfully found X spot of the best place for the ideal siege placement

j) successfully disabled X number of sieges

k) successfully disabling X number of sieges under threat of x men zerg

 

[lolage.1450]

WHERE ARE MY SIEGE GOLEMS WITH SHOULDER MOUNTED MORTARS AND ACs.

[Mokk.2397]

Hey ,what ever happened to siege turtles.They were cool. Also I mentioned this before about Powder keg running like the Admiral Taidha Covington event. Gets more people involved in the siege process.But only if you guys make it hilarious chucking explosives around (stern look). Could make a new siege mastery line.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > I consider that as a balance issue than a siege issue. The question is are both server stacked server or only one of them is stacked? This can result in skill differences due to stacking. For starters, compare the two blob average wvw levels. If skill differences too great to overcome, it is natural they go for extreme measure. So what is the real solution here? Stop stacking servers so you can fight people of your own skills.

> > >

> > > It's a siege issue. Siege gives people an easy out if they can't win a fight legit. Take away the siege and they will have to try the fight.

> >

> > Unfortunately for you, siege isn’t going anywhere. Your only option is to learn how to play this mode with siege in it.

> >

> > You’re not going to impose the “fight club” mentality on the devs to remove siege weapons or warfare, so you have to adopt new levels of tactical gameplay for gaining objectives and winning fights... However, the devs created a mode for players such as yourself, and that’s called Structured PvP... There you can find more like-minded players and the “honorable warrior” fights that you’re looking for.

> >

> > Also, being able to use an array of “tools” and tactics is the beauty of sandbox gameplay. Makes wvw unpredictable, and tests critical thinking and decision making skills.

> >

> > GL

>

> What? Critical thinking and decision making? Where to place the ac's so you can get as many as possible in one area? What decisions? What to watch on your other screen while you sit around waiting for a passerby to shoot siege at? Sitting on siege is the most passive, thoughtless play possible.

>

> And to mimic your own tone to Israel. The developers designed an entire pve map just for you. It's called Silverwastes. You can go there and sit on an ac or even an oil all day if you like, without having to deal with pesky people who believe servers 'fighting' over land should at some point include actual 'fighting'.

 

You should absorb this entire sentence and ponder it for a bit. “being able to use an array of “tools” and tactics is the beauty of sandbox gameplay. Makes wvw unpredictable, and tests critical thinking and decision making skills.”

 

Take a look at the wiki under “world vs world” and read up on the intended designs and components.

 

I’m mostly a roamer, unless I’m bored, so let’s not make assumptions. However, I do happen to understand what wvw encompasses. And in all the years I spent in wvw I’ve never had issues with siege, it’s pretty easy to counter and/or avoid.

[Shining One.1635]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> Well they could try getting off the wall?

I'm sure many have tried. I know I have. I've jumped off the wall against superior numbers and died. I've stood on the wall to attack superior numbers and died. Eventually, people learn not to do these things.

 

 

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Mokk.2397" said:

> Hey ,what ever happened to siege turtles.They were cool. Also I mentioned this before about Powder keg running like the Admiral Taidha Covington event. Gets more people involved in the siege process.But only if you guys make it hilarious chucking explosives around (stern look). Could make a new siege mastery line.

 

Speaking of...

 

Whatever happened to chucking asura over walls using trebs and catapults?

[Ben K.6238]

I'm seeing a lot of complaining about arrow carts but honestly those are pretty easily countered. Kill the ACs with a ballista or bomb, or just disable them. If you can't reach them you were never going to win that fight anyway.

 

As far as existing siege goes, there are two main problems I'm seeing -

* Burning Oil placements are far too exposed, so using one tends to be suicidal.

* Shield Generators invalidate countersiege. These should reduce but not eliminate siege damage.

 

Let the shield bubble give a short-duration Aegis to players - it's fair enough to provide some defence against arrow carts - but 5 catas and 2-3 shield gens right up against a tower wall prevents even delaying an enemy zerg long enough for reinforcements to arrive and provide the "fights" that people here claim to be looking for. This has got to go.

 

A more speculative suggestion is changes to siege and related traps/tricks to provide more depth than "do damage here" and "prevent damage there".

* We had barricades for a while on the Desert Borderland, which served to control the terrain but not make it impenetrable like a tower wall. The implementation of these was unpopular, but I think it could work if revised.

* Sentries light up enemy forces on the map, much like watchtowers. It may be useful to have a less static option allowing players to achieve the same result.

* Should siege equipment require ammunition? This may provide more importance for supply lines after upgrading assets to tier 3, but may also be vulnerable to trolls.

* What about raiding supply from enemy assets?

* Losing all the tactics seems fair enough, but do gates and walls have to instantly repair the moment an objective is captured?

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > Well they could try getting off the wall?

> I'm sure many have tried. I know I have. I've jumped off the wall against superior numbers and died. I've stood on the wall to attack superior numbers and died. Eventually, people learn not to do these things.

>

>

 

You might want to take a look at my comment earlier in the thread about the supply trap shenanigans. The fight can be won before it gets to the wall.

 

But my comment was mostly aimed at a situation I see all too often, equal or superior numbers standing on the wall.

[jcbroe.4329]

It would be nice of siege only existed as a function of the objectives and not as a function of the combat experience.

 

The combat is this games driving feature of what this game does better than the rest of the market, so it would be nice if the siege only existed to interact with the objectives and not to actually interact or change the dynamic of the combat.

[anonymous.7812]

Has anyone mentioned custom siege skins available for Gems ? Maybe random drops in BLCs too!

 

Also, besides siege, it'd be nice to have custom tower/keep/camp models, and be able to decorate custom layouts for your guild. Could add that to the Gemstore as well for all I care.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

>

> You should absorb this entire sentence and ponder it for a bit. “being able to use an array of “tools” and tactics is the beauty of sandbox gameplay. Makes wvw unpredictable, and tests critical thinking and decision making skills.”

>

> Take a look at the wiki under “world vs world” and read up on the intended designs and components.

>

> I’m mostly a roamer, unless I’m bored, so let’s not make assumptions. However, I do happen to understand what wvw encompasses. And in all the years I spent in wvw I’ve never had issues with siege, it’s pretty easy to counter and/or avoid.

 

If you roam then i'm sure you have encountered just some of the issues with siege.. How many times do you run by things solo and there's 5 people sitting on trebs and mortars trying to hit you as you pass by. How many times have you gone to a camp and there's multiple defenders that won't leave the ac's and balistas theyve built there to even fight you 1vX?

It used to be that as a group of five or less my guild could have fun throwing down a cata or treb long range near something and getting fights with people. Now its 10 people staying in the tower on siege because why not? No need to engage at all. If the blob doesn't arrive hey ho hop on the 10 ac's. Sure I could and have spent hours desieging. and redesieging. And next time running from the blob. Then desieging again. Then running from the blob. Then desieging everything they rebuilt. Again. I could. Is it fun? No.

 

And incidently. I've been one of the handful of outnumbered pugs desperately trying to hang on to our last keep or tower prob more times than many posters put together. Sometimes successfully, (usually when people are willing to risk sup traps, flipping camps, disable and suicide on siege runs and NOT when they all sit on siege in the keep), sometimes not. My ENTIRE aim when i'm doing this is to make trying to take the keep as miserable and frustrating an experience as possible for the attacking blob so they shove off and bother the other team instead.

 

I'd like to see balistas damage to other siege buffed to help with this. It'd be nice if stealth groups hitting with one from behind could take down siege again quickly.

But siege damage to players has to be reduced substantially. As it is it is NOT the way to stop a blob, intelligence is - at least til it gets to critical mass proportions of defenders then nothings stopping them. Siege is currently overpowered in the all too common scenario of equal or greater numbers defending and refusing to do anything other than use siege. The siege portion of a fight versus the actual length of player v player interaction is completely out of whack.

[SweetPotato.7456]

There are no safe spot on the wall. Because there are hackers who can still pull you off the wall, dont ask me how they do it, they do exist and it does happen, there are also no safe spot for sieges, if it safe spot, they probably can't hit anything with the siege from that far in. And people do take effort to take down siege from withing smc third floor "parapet/watch tower extention platform" that is hitting their tower. with a balista. we do it all the time.

 

also, imho, you do not do a player vs player fight when your tower is under attack unless you have 2 groups of players, one defending the objectives and one fighting the attackers or the blob (that is always the case). if your resources are low, you have to keep your objectives safe priority, if your commenting that everytime someone comes to invade your land you should jump off the wall and fight, that is asking defenders to hand over their objective to you without defending it.

[Shining One.1635]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> You might want to take a look at my comment earlier in the thread about the supply trap shenanigans. The fight can be won before it gets to the wall.

I saw that and I'm very surprised it worked. It really depends on the incompetence of your enemies to be successful. Although I don't run with the zerg a lot, when I do and I run into a supply trap, I always run ahead myself and set off other traps outside the range of the rest of the zerg. The fact that it worked multiple times is a testament to your enemies' foolishness.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > You might want to take a look at my comment earlier in the thread about the supply trap shenanigans. The fight can be won before it gets to the wall.

> I saw that and I'm very surprised it worked. It really depends on the incompetence of your enemies to be successful. Although I don't run with the zerg a lot, when I do and I run into a supply trap, I always run ahead myself and set off other traps outside the range of the rest of the zerg. The fact that it worked multiple times is a testament to your enemies' foolishness.

 

Thats why you have multiple people dropping the traps. In different places and in the case of some brave teefs almost right IN them. The ktrain blobs that happily run over all the t3 stuff every night are used to dealing with no opposition and not using their brain at all. OFC with siege at the levels it currently is this is the only way to flip anything.

[Bethryn.4087]

Hey, thanks for making this topic, Ben. Siege is one of those things that I feel right now does need a second (well, third) pass. For context, I've been a WvW player since shortly after launch, and for much of vanilla I enjoyed playing defence; upgrading and sieging up towers, learning good siege positions both offensively and defensively, sometimes holding off significantly larger numbers for 10 or 20 minutes with only a few defenders through good placement etc. Since Heart of Thorns, I think things have changed, and it isn't really possible for savvy defenders to really shine any more. Partly this is because knowledge of good offensive siege spots is more commonplace, but I think there are also two overarching issues, particularly with the interplay of arrow carts and shield generators, and the change in supply availability along with superior blueprint prevalence that have contributed to the change in feel. I'll go over the siege weapon by weapon, and then try and talk a little bit about where I feel WvW siege gameplay is at right now.

 

**Mortars, Cannons and Oil** all have one consistent issue, which is that it is very easy for attackers to AoE and fear people off of them. This generally means they're only effective against very small attacking forces. Applying stability to yourself before using one only goes so far now that boon-corruption is commonplace. I view these as delaying siege rather than countering siege at the moment; attacks must spend 20-30 seconds clearing the cannons and oil, but they're never really a threat to an attack (with some exceptions such as SM cannons, and the northern cannon on central inner Hills that can hit siege through outer north gate, or certain inner wall mortars that can through careful use hit siege at outer walls).

 

**Mortar:** I think all the skills on mortar are in a good place. They all fulfil their purposes; siege destruction, stacking player damage, and player knockback very well. The turn speed on mortars has always felt unnecessarily slow.

**Cannon:** Although I don't really use the bleed ability often, both the basic shot and the chilling shot feel very effective, if you are left alone to take advantage of them.

**Oil:** I rarely use the slowing attack, and am not really sure what situation I would use it in. In the event of actually being able to use oil, the reflective bubble and the burning attack are far more useful. It's also often the case that targeting is messy, as the area you can burn is actually smaller than the radius around a gate where rams can hit the gate, and sensible commanders will put their rams where the users can't be hit at all.

 

**Ballista:** Ballistae continue to hold a few niche spots. As defensive siege, they are used in very specific spots where defenders can't be targeted or AoE'd when using them. The basic and anti-siege shots are effective against stationary targets, as to some degree is the splash damage. I assume they are not intended to ever be used on players, as the travel time means even the slightest movement causes the shot to miss. The anti-air shot is a nice idea that I've never used, and rarely had an opportunity to use either.

 

**Catapults and Trebuchets** have generally become slightly slower at getting into towers with the rise in the use of shield generators to block shots by bubbling the wall, but have equally become more consistent as generators protect them from mortars and defensive trebuchets. Trebuchets in particular are vulnerable to this with their long cast times and relatively low damage, and their high arc meaning they're more likely to hit the top of a wall where a defensive shield generator can target without being visible to attackers.

 

**Trebuchet:** Trebuchets continue to generally be the surest way to get inside a keep, albeit at a high time cost. As always, using the tip of splash damage to hit a wall means you will outrange defensive siege unless a height advantage is in play. The basic shot and the cow are both fairly rewarding to use. I have occasionally experimented with a trebuchet attacking an enemy supply hut to drain supplies (sometimes building the trebuchet directly beside the supply hut after breaching outer walls), but have found the hitbox for actually draining to be very finicky (e.g. roof of supply huts often block these shots). I do not feel the water field shot is anywhere near powerful enough to merit a 60 second cooldown. Trebuchets hitting enemy rams through gates is something I still feel to be inelegant. The turn speed on trebuchets has also always felt unnecessarily slow.

 

**Flame Ram:** Flame Rams have benefited from the arrival of the shield generator to protect against their biggest predator, the superior AC. The basic attack does what you'd expect. The flame burst still has a slightly annoying cooldown that means you usually have to wait half a second on a ram attack to include it in the cycle, and I feel could safely be taken off the general cooldown of the ram to no ill effect. The skill that knocks back enemies through the gate is almost never of use (ignoring how blind you are to such an enemy's existence). The skill granting damage reduction to those around you has some niche cases just before a push. My only really problem with the flame ram is that the superior flame ram's damage is not synchronised with the attack animation of the ram actually colliding with the door!

 

**Catapult:** Catapults are in a good spot. The catapult defensive bubble feels well-balanced; a short duration with a medium cooldown for total immunity to counterfire. If you can get co-ordinated catapult users with 5 catapults, you can theoretically block most enemy attacks, but this is generally rare enough that it is not a consideration, and requires considerable teamwork to achieve. Scaling damage with range has worked well in my opinion. I have very rarely found any use for the spread shot ability. Even when using a catapult on an enemy group, the knockback from the larger boulder feels more useful than the bleeds from the spread shot. (It remains the case that there are cata spots which can hit the base of walls through cliffs at Hills west outer and Air keep north inner.)

 

**Golem:** Golems have lost a lot of their lustre. I feel this is for several reasons. Firstly, the addition of shield generators and their improvement of the effectiveness of all other offensive siege has made the prospect of trying to organise a golem march much less appealing, especially with the paucity of portal Mesmers. Secondly, the increase in damage output for a large number of classes after HoT and PoF has made golem health pool that much smaller comparatively. It has also meant that dedicating more than say 5 people to golems in your zerg constitutes a considerably greater loss of killing power. Even though shield generators in their current state do benefit golem rushes significantly, the difficulty of moving golems around is too great to really justify it when you could just as easily set up catapults for equal efficacy. In their current state, I view them as primarily thematic, with some minor uses for supply efficiency for smaller nightcapping crews. I find the secondary abilities of Alpha Golems to be lacking (more than is necessary for their small cost), while most of the Omega golem secondaries feel about right when in a group fight, as they provide good group disruption and defensive potential.

 

**Arrow Cart:** Arrow Carts are the single most defining piece of defensive siege WvW, and ultimately form the question asked of all attacking forces. A critical mass of superior ACs is the most deadly thing attackers can face, frequently picking off those caught out unaware, and determining (along with tower upgrade level) whether rams or close catapults (the two fastest ways into a tower, giving the defenders' main force the least time to reach the tower) are viable. The basic shot, crippling shot and poison shot are all respectively useful; as with cannons, I rarely use the bleeding shot. The change to where ACs can and cannot hit from HoT development has worked nicely. Ultimately, ACs are what required the existence of shield generators, and their "not affected by AC fire" bubble. It remains the case that the difference between a normal and superior AC is monumental, and placing a normal AC is almost always a mistake due to siege caps in an area, which raises an eyebrow (normal ACs essentially being a "noob trap"). 3 superior ACs is deadly to ram users, and effective at breaking the rams as well.

 

**Shield Generators** are the answer to ACs, as well as almost all defensive siege, and represent the big shift that came to WvW in HoT (along with the shift to a 5 minute tick timer) that pushed the game into a faster-paced cap rush style. I will quickly say that I feel the bounce ball and the wall are rarely if ever used nor particularly useful, and leave it at that. Meanwhile, the basic bubble's strength is undeniable. Firstly, obviously, trebuchets at maximum treb range to hit a wall, covered by 2 shield generators further away from a tower means defenders simply have no way to stop the walls being broken without engaging the enemy group. More problematic is the 4 shield generator configuration, with 2 sets of 2 that mutually cover each other, with catapults or rams beside one pair. In this situation, neither set of shield generators is vulnerable to defensive fire, and an attack with a superior force of players is untouchable, at what would once have been a steep supply cost, but not with the current supply income we see. They also, as I mentioned earlier, can be effective defensive tools, stopping enemy trebuchet fire if the trebuchets have to hit the top of walls.

 

The AC vs Shield Gen question is, in my opinion, causing degeneracy in WvW siege gameplay. It becomes a binary question of _if_ this siege exists, _then_ you have no good options, rather than a question of where siege is placed, whether it's supported, and whether the user reacts to threats well. _If_ a tower has 3 superior ACs on the back lip of the wall overlooking the gate, your only recourse is a large enough zerg to rush the 4 gen layout before the ACs are either manned or can down your zerg, or to move back into trebuchet range (and this problem existed before HoT). Likewise, _if_ an enemy group is using the 4 gen layout for catapults or rams there is no defensive siege or trick/trap that can respond to this, and you must wipe their group in normal combat. Smaller groups of defenders guarding towers can do nothing to buy time for their main force to arrive and defend. This is really the area where I feel something has to give; defenders need to have some way to respond to shield generators (just for example, if the shield bubble could only block a certain number of shots, or had an HP value, then defenders could 'outgun' generators), and attackers do need a response to mass ACs on the walls that isn't to move to a trebuchet strat that requires five times as much time investment, generally meaning a bad opportunity cost decision compared to going somewhere else that can be flipped quickly.

 

**Tricks and Traps** are still an odd bunch. I feel the **Siege Disabler** has been a good addition to the game. Good defenders can use it to buy time on careless attackers, while careful attackers can watch for defenders approaching siege and use basic projectile destruction abilities or crowd control to counteract them. Again, 2 shield generators remove some of this fun by providing constant projectile destruction. The **Stealth Trap** remains an incredibly niche, almost never used trap. It is too easily triggered accidentally by people not in stealth. Despite these issues, I don't really see its existence causing any problems for WvW.

 

The **Supply Trap** however has always been secretly far too strong. Co-ordinated defenders spamming several of these in succession is both effective and 'unfun'. There is little counterplay beyond the "canary" approach of sending a single person forward with every choke your group moves too, which is generally not worth the effort. In general, I view it as a blessing that these are so rarely used, because if people were to seriously and regularly make use of them, WvW would suffer as a result. The biggest issue is the inability to detect them, as well as the fact that their radius wide punishes people who were often nowhere near the offending choke. Equally, the ability to stack several in close proximity means you can empty an entire zerg's supply count, even up to 800 or more, in under a second. Comparing that to, for example the trebuchet cow, which drains supply slowly and has an obvious area of effect for players to move out of and limit the loss, I think these need some degree of revamp (or possibly the addition of a period after triggering one in which you cannot be affected by the triggering of another?).

 

Also, I would like to repeat a suggestion I made on the old forum. Please consider a rework to the way 'tagging' works. At present, a single highly evasive character such as a thief, mesmer or engineer can keep Keep waypoints contested with great ease for egregious lengths of time with simple auto-attacks. Disabling a waypoint (especially on EBG keeps) for 3 minutes is incredibly important for attrition, and the current ease with which it is done, as well as the difficulty in preventing it is so unpleasant I would say I think it's almost a form of 'griefing' (there is a particularly tiresome individual on Desolation with the guild tag "Gandara Keep Perma Contested" who does this, but they are not the first or last). I feel that a lower limit on the amount of non-siege damage done to keeps before they become contested would be a good addition (e.g. 2k non-siege damage to a gate, which is enough to indicate a zerg is auto-attacking a gate, but not enough for a thief to do with a single auto-attack). However, I also think that disabling a keep waypoint is an important tactical decision, and should remain in the game. I want to suggest the addition of a new Trick that does exactly that; for example, a thrown projectile like the Siege Disabler, or maybe something akin to a timed bomb (destructible for more counterplay) that contests a keep if it hits the walls/gates. This lets WvW retain the interesting ability for a small number of attackers to run disruption tactics on the attrition side of things, while removing their ability to do so forever without resupplying; the bomb version also gives aware defenders a chance to interrupt their tactics.

 

Last but not least, I would like to draw attention to the general change in supply income and the significant reduction in cost (through their massively increased availability through chest rewards) of superior blueprints. In general, this has sped things up and again benefited attackers greatly, with normal siege very rarely used (at least in top tier EU; I am a Gandara player). I think this often dissuades zergs from trying to defend objectives they're not already close to, as the time to break in has been so significantly reduced, arriving in time becomes much less likely. It also makes general pressure around the map more effective, and people scouting in towers are having to spend much more time running supplies to walls because of how much more damage is being done. I would not go so far as to say this is objectively a bad thing, but I would say it is something I am a little uneasy about (the prevalence of superior blueprints and resultant inadequacy of basic siege in particular).

 

I know that this has been an extra long wall of text, and that I have - intentionally - made very few actual suggestions, so if you did manage to get through it all, thank you. I think it's probably more useful for me to put how I _feel_ about the state of siege in WvW right now down for you, rather than telling you how to do your job! I would certainly like to see some of those less used abilities on siege get revamped, but I feel the AC vs Shield Gen interaction is the area that needs the most focus to really improve siege gameplay, and get back some of the old feel. I hope this has been helpful!

[Malediktus.9250]

Remove shield generators and siege blockers

[Belenwyn.8674]

1. Remove the CD from mortars , cannons & co after destruction. Why I have to wait three minutes to rebuild a mortar? That CD is only annoying.

2. Revamp burning oil. There should be some kind of shield players have to destroy before the operator can be hit. A break bar would also help a lot.

3. Redsign the walls. It is too easy to destroy mortars and cannons. Place cannons and mortars on destructable towers 1600 units high or place mortars more back (maybe a notch at the inner part of the wall)

4. Allow to place mortars in the yard of structures. I would like to see triple shot mortars for this purpose.

5. Restrict the places where you can place siege weapons in structures.

6. Introduce ammunition for all siege weapons. Endlesxy charges are too op. Ammunition would introduce more tactical. You would have to secure your supply chains

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Bethryn.4087" said:

 

> I know that this has been an extra long wall of text, and that I have - intentionally - made very few actual suggestions, so if you did manage to get through it all, thank you. I think it's probably more useful for me to put how I _feel_ about the state of siege in WvW right now down for you, rather than telling you how to do your job! I would certainly like to see some of those less used abilities on siege get revamped, but I feel the AC vs Shield Gen interaction is the area that needs the most focus to really improve siege gameplay, and get back some of the old feel. I hope this has been helpful!

 

I cut the really long post but I just wanted to say that I feel this is an excellent summary of siege as it and how it is used at the moment. Thankyou for taking the time to write all that out.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> * We had barricades for a while on the Desert Borderland, which served to control the terrain but not make it impenetrable like a tower wall. The implementation of these was unpopular, but I think it could work if revised.

 

What would be the purpose of re-introducing barricades?

 

[Zietlogik.6208]

Open Field **NON-DAMAGE** Siege Ideas: (most of these can **NOT** be build nearby structures/objectives, they all have set time limits that expire and cannot be refreshed)

 

* **Silos/Caches**: Players can remove/take and store/place supply in these buildables, which can be built nearly anywhere on the battlefield, these can be used to help build and repair nearby fortifications as emergency supply areas.

 

Example: A tower is nearly under siege and a team reacts quickly to get inside to prepare defenses, a silo is built and players add their supply to the cache to prevent usage of the tower supply for repair situations, or counter-siege, this supply can remain here after a defense and continuously added to (to a cap) by players running to nearby camps for resupply.

 

* **Walls/Barricades**: Straight forward, a buildable waist-high wall which you can rotate and place to your team’s strategic advantage. Only placeable away from map edges and structures (more for field impedance, and to route supply caravans and small enemy groups. Cannot be built near Towers and Keeps.

 

The closer the structure is to an enemy spawn though, the more PPT it will generate! Risk/Reward.

 

* **Deconstruction Tool**: available in towers/keeps to deconstruct buildables YOU have created.

 

* **Repair Golem**: A vulnerable automated repair golem that will repair nearby damaged siege, walls or doors it can reach, slowly over time. This can be built near objectives.

 

* **Shield Emitter**: A buildable that creates a small aerial AoE shield high above itself that can stop mortar, catapult and trebuchet rounds (if they strike the shield directly), but will take damage for every siege projectile it stops.

 

* **Guard Tower**: A large, climbable spire that can be built as a makeshift Sentry/Sentry Turret that will automatically detect and display nearby enemies as long as 1 or more players are standing at the top. Can only be built in Friendly territory.

 

And an even **BIGGER** idea:

 

* **Victory Point Structure**: This buildable can be used to gain additional PPT over time. It is vulnerable and becomes more vulnerable over time, and requires continuous supply to continue running as it drains supply fed into it. Only 1 team may have a VP structure built on a map at any time, and must capture and hold all 5 central "monuments" to gain access to building. This would replace Bloodlust, instead, a "Mist Energy Core" will spawn in the center of the map, and players must use it as the blueprint to build the structure (only commanders may interact with the Core). This can be built in any friendly territory on the map in playable space (excludes main spawn areas).

[SweetPotato.7456]

Supply needed to build sieges scales according to numbers of players , just a thought but dont know if it can be done.

 

this is a for instant, supplies goes up according to the size, dont know how this can be done, kinda tricky, could it be base on the number players around the siege , like scaling up down a Champion fights.

1 person building an arrow cart - 6 supplies

2 persons - 12 supplies

3 persons - 18 supplies

 

 

[MUDse.7623]

changes to existing siege:

* ACs. reduce damage to players to 1/2 or 1/3 of the damage, increase damage to siege x2

* using a siege weapon should work for any siege like the golem, therefor player doesnt lose hp but the siege. when it is destroyed you can hit the player again this will prevent siege weapons from becomming a death trap, especially as you cant use your own healing skills, cleanses etc and the siege doesnt provide any.

* stealth disrupting trap should be removed as it is not usefull for anything. i mean i run into alot of them but they are often placed while i watch em from stealth, so not really efficient as i can avoid the area or trigger it when it is safe. ontop it is undodgeable with a long reveal wich means it could hurt stealth users aside from deadeye badly without an option to disarm the trap safely. for more practial use i propose a stealth disabler instead of the trap; 30-45s cd , 6s revealed, 1200 range, 300 effect radius, 3-5 supplies. this can be used alot better to fight someone using alot of stealth as it doesnt require you to sit down 4 seconds , is on range and area is larger then the trap trigger area. on the other hand it gives the stealther the option to dodge it and it is not as punishing as it is now for anyone that is not a deadeye.